Truther Alert!

[gumboot]

I found one!

Today at work I ended up in a thorough discussion with someone over 9/11... here's some of his claims and phrases, that give away his influence:

-Do you really think 19 arabs with boxcutters were able to defeat the most powerful military in the world?
-How did a raghead in a cave pull this off?
-Avgas can't melt steel.
-Steel doesn't fall like that.
-Materials "fell upwards"
-Thermite!
-Collapse faster than freefall!
-WTC7 first 100m fell in 4 seconds.
-Fires in the WTC were cold and going out.
-Small isolated fires in WTC.
-Down into our own footprint we gooooo!
-Dick Cheney had personal control of NORAD on 9/11 and told them to stand down.
-NORAD had 3 exercises on 9/11 that made them unable to do anything.
-Hani Hanjour pulls of perfect manouver to hit The Pentagon "straight on" (navigates through cloud, etc).
-FEMA didn't know what caused WTC collapse.
-No building ever collapsed due to fire.
-$600,000 as budget to 9/11 Commission to Investigate entire 9/11 attacks (including technicals of building collapse apparantly!)
-ISI funds to Atta
-16ft hole in Pentagon
-Wall perfectly intact except for hole prior to collapse

That's all I can remember off the top of my head.

Needless to say I addressed all his concerns. He said he'd email me with some of his "evidence" so we can discuss it further. Sounds like a fairly typical liberal kiwi - honest and genuine enough, but very anti-US/corporates etc... and willing to swallow the usual BS.

On the plus, a third participant was a bit of a light CTer/fence sitter with concerns about The Pentagon - specifically where all the fuel in the wings went. By part way through the argument he was actually arguing WITH ME against the other guy re: the WTC collapses.

I eagerly await his emails.

-Gumboot

ETA. I forgot my reason for posting! The "fence sitter" was asking about fuel at The Pentagon. Does anyone have some comprehensive information on the jet fuel's part in The Pentagon impact and subsequent fires?

[Oliver]

You may find some good information about the fuel in here:

http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf
http://externalsearch.nist.gov/search?q=pentagon+fuel&btnG=Google+Search&entqr=0&sort=date%3AD%3AL%3Ad1&output=xml_no_dtd&ie=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&ud=1&site=default_collection&oe=UTF-8&proxystylesheet=default_frontend

[MikeW]

The Steve Riskus photos show how far fire spread along the Pentagon, something that fits with a fuel explosion, but makes little sense if you believe it was a missile that exploded inside the building, say. His site is down right now but you can see some at http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/smoke.html

[PerryLogan]

My favorite point about the 9/11 "inside job" conspiracy theories is a non-technical one: too many anomalies disprove a conspiracy. You can use this argument whenever a Truther lambasts you with long lists of "smoking guns."

To wit: Any hoax or subterfuge might have flaws in the execution or cover story; but once you've listed a whole slew of bizarre anomalies, coincidences, and absurdities, the possibility of a conspiracy drops to zero, for the simple reason that no one would plan a hoax that was filled with impossibilities.

If you're pulling off a subterfuge, you want your cover story to be convincing and unexceptionable. You don't want a zillion weird coincidences and impossibilities. You don't want engineering impossibilities and historical anomalies riddling your story, as this would tend to give away the plan.

If we look at it this way, we can see that 9/11, as envisioned by our conspiratorial friends, would never have gotten off the drawing board.

Imagine the evil 9/11 conspirators sitting round the planning table. Sinister music is playing:

"Let's have steel-frame buildings fall in an impossible, historically unprecedented way--nya-hahaha!," one planner says.

"Don't be stupid!" snaps another. "That would totally give the plan away, you idiot! Are you crazy? Nya-hahahaa!" (Smacks the first guy upside the head a few times.)

So the existence of too many smoking guns proves there was no conspiracy. The conspiracy guys are disproving themselves over and over again but are too stupid to know it.

P.S.: Keep your distance from your coworker. He may not have had his vaccines.

[Anti-sophist]

Every time someone claims the buildings fell faster than freefall, a physics teacher cries. Think of the physics teachers. Please.

[T.A.M.]

The only thing that falls faster than "Free Fall" is a CTers IQ.

TAM

[Horatius]

Every time someone claims the buildings fell faster than freefall, a physics teacher cries. Think of the physics teachers. Please.

Okay, can we update Gravy's Kitten picture with a physics teacher?

[uk_dave]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1229545686cdeaea5a.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2799)

There you go.... make your own caption :D :D

[Comsat Angel]

dave! That's very naughty!

Even if very amusing. Brings to mind the MC Hawking rap.

[Redtail]

[/URL][URL]http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1229545686cdeaea5a.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2799)

There you go.... make your own caption :D :D

Wouldn't work all he would have to do is say,

"Cyclops! Jean! Get them!" and the guy holding the gun would be confused enough for Steven to slowly get away.