chicago sun times skewers zune

[JLam]

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

A choice excerpt:

Take the Zune's one unique and potentially ginchy feature: Wi-Fi. You see this printed on the box and you immediately think "Cool. So I can sync files from my desktop library without having to plug in a USB cable, right? Maybe even download new content directly to the device from the Internet?"
Typical, selfish user: How does your convenience help make money for Universal? No wonder Doug despises you.
No, the Zune's sole wireless feature is "squirting" -- I know, I know, it's Microsoft's term, not mine -- music and pictures to any other Zune device within direct Wi-Fi range. Even if the track is inherently free (like a podcast) the Zune wraps it in a DRM scheme that causes the track to self-destruct after three days or three plays, whichever comes first.
After that, it's nothing more than a bookmark for purchasing the track in the Zune Marketplace. It amounts to nothing more than free advertising.
The Zune is a complete, humiliating failure. Toshiba's Gigabeat player, for example, is far more versatile, it has none of the Zune's limitations, and Amazon sells the 30-gig model for 40 bucks less.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/ihnatko/147048,CST-FIN-Andy23.article

A choice excerpt:
It feels like the Zune is nothing more than a litmus test for seeing how far they can push DRM.

I wonder at what point DRM will become so invasive that even Joe Average says, "Hey, they can't tell me how to play music I paid for! I'm not buying this!"

My fear is that DRM is going to be so far embedded in mainstream media by the time this happens, that we'll be stuck with it.

In Canada, 'Copy Controlled' CDs are rampant, that will not allow you to rip to MP3s, and will only play on your computer in lo-fi using their proprietary player. I am a huge fan of music, but there have been many CDs that I just simply won't buy because of this garbage. When you tell me that by law, I have Fair Use rights, but content providers take that right away from me, I stop buying your product. Unfortunately, Joe Average still doesn't care enough to actually do without Britney Spears' latest album to actually send a clear message.

...And so it goes. :(

[Dark Jaguar]

How does such copy controlling work? In order to play it on a normal player, it must be in the standard CD format as you can't install software on a CD player. If those tracks exist, I don't see what would prevent a computer from playing them save some special software these CDs install to prevent it. However, even an autoinstall can be prevented by either disabling autorun or holding down "shift", and that's just in Windows. Other OSes don't even have autorun.

That said, DRM is getting pretty restrictive. Generally, I have no issues with the copyright protection they used in the past, because I was all for preventing people from stealing. However, my favor vanishes when legal purchasers start getting inconvenienced for the sake of this.

You know what the ultimate DRM nightmare scenario is, for the companies? The sci-fi ultimate item, the replicator.

[rdaneel]

You know what the ultimate DRM nightmare scenario is, for the companies? The sci-fi ultimate item, the replicator.
More than a DRM nightmare, I've seen replicators described as the end of capitalism.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

How does such copy controlling work? In order to play it on a normal player, it must be in the standard CD format as you can't install software on a CD player. If those tracks exist, I don't see what would prevent a computer from playing them save some special software these CDs install to prevent it. However, even an autoinstall can be prevented by either disabling autorun or holding down "shift", and that's just in Windows. Other OSes don't even have autorun.
Copy Controlled CDs are 'kinda' Red Book audio format. However, they've deviated so far from the Red Book Compact Disc standard to introduce their DRM that they're not allowed to carry the 'Compact Disc' logo on them. Even if you prevent Windows from auto running, the CD tracks will not play on a CD-ROM. The CD tracks don't even play on some regular CD players!

By not carrying the Compact Disc logo, they make no guarantees that the media will play in a Compact Disc player. And no, I'm not joking. :(

Read it and weep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control).

[Meri]

By not carrying the Compact Disc logo, they make no guarantees that the media will play in a Compact Disc player. And no, I'm not joking. :(

Read it and weep (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copy_Control).

I'm not sure if I have any Copy Control cds (being in the US) but my laptop will not play and copy protected CDs that I have tried. At all. And it's the only computer I have ready access to that has a cd burner, and really the only cd player I own. It's only been a problem a few times, because I mainly buy either digital music or used cds from before copy protection, but it drives me insane when it happens.

[Wavicle]

How does such copy controlling work? In order to play it on a normal player, it must be in the standard CD format as you can't install software on a CD player. If those tracks exist, I don't see what would prevent a computer from playing them save some special software these CDs install to prevent it. However, even an autoinstall can be prevented by either disabling autorun or holding down "shift", and that's just in Windows. Other OSes don't even have autorun.

There are several ways to protect content, but a very common one is:

Audio CD's contain error correction codes to help players tolerate minor defects in reading the media due to distortion, poor quality at manufacturer, scratches and so on. Whenever the player detects that there is a read error for some sector, it uses the error correction to reconstruct the data. This isn't earth shattering news.

With Copy Control they intentionally create a CD that has a few selected areas of a few selected sectors that are intentionally mangled and without adequate error correction. The result is an 'uncorrectable' error. Most CD players handle this by interpolating the data between what it can read. Thus for Copy Control to work, you need to scan through a song and locate candidate positions for interpolation.

Many CD-ROM players will interpret the entire sector as being hopeless and return an error when an attempt to read them is made. Thefore instead of getting partial data that software can fix itself, the software gets no data for that sector.

The big problem with this is that manufacturers started using CD-ROM reader technology for things like "skip protection." Copy Control started taking a lot of heat because the CDs could not be played in things like car CD players and walkman/portable players because those players used skip protection. These advanced players were becoming so common that, I think, Copy Control has largely been abandoned. It was more DRM that the average-Joes were willing to tolerate.

[Art Vandelay]

It feels like the Zune is nothing more than a litmus test for seeing how far they can push DRM.Why is Zune being singled out regarding DRM? Ipods have extensive DRM issues, making both backups and portability issues.

In Canada, 'Copy Controlled' CDs are rampant, that will not allow you to rip to MP3s, and will only play on your computer in lo-fi using their proprietary player.I wonder what the law is on downloading mp3s for which you own the CD.

[JonnyFive]

Why is Zune being singled out regarding DRM? Ipods have extensive DRM issues, making both backups and portability issues.

No kidding. I'm particularly not fond of their stupid proprietary iTunes file format. Of course, there are ways to convert the files to regular MP3s, but it's a pain in the butt.

Hey jerks, I want to be able to put this stuff on an MP3 CD and play it in my car. No, I don't want to purchase an iPod hookup for my stereo.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Why is Zune being singled out regarding DRM? Ipods have extensive DRM issues, making both backups and portability issues.
The iTunes DRM is like a 'DRM lite', self imposed by Apple to appease the recording industry. I can easily back up my iTunes songs on a CD, and rip it back to un-DRMed MP3s. The Zune's media contains a much more sophisticated DRM scheme. It contains rules such as 'You can share songs, but they'll only play 3 times on the person's player'. This is the kind of DRM of the future, since the content providers want you to pay over and over again for the same song and album. We can expect to see 'deals' in the future, like 'Hey, buy this DRMed album for only $5!', which will actually expire in a few weeks or months, forcing you to buy it again if you listen to the album often.

That being said, I believe that all DRM is bad DRM. I believe that it is in place as a money grab to support an outdated and dying distribution model.

I wonder what the law is on downloading mp3s for which you own the CD.
I can't speak for the US, but I know how it works in Canada. Consumers are granted 'fair use' rights, meaning that if I own the CD, I can do whatever I choose with it, as long as I don't resell it. This includes downloading MP3s of songs that I already own the media for. That is why using Canada as a test market for 'Copy Controlled' CDs was ridiculous; It violated our Fair Use rights.

In Canada, we also play an extra tax on all blank MiniDiscs, Cassettes, and CDs that is given to copyright holders (The Canadian recording industry) to offset the cost of piracy. This is called the 'Private Copying Levy'. The government has essentially said that they do not want the cost of trying to police piracy issues, so did this to appease the copyright holders. But now large distributors like EMI and Sony are employing their own anti-piracy measures, yet they still receive money from the Private Copying Levy. Great deal for them, bad deal for consumers.

[Lisa Simpson]

Why is Zune being singled out regarding DRM? Ipods have extensive DRM issues, making both backups and portability issues.

The articles I have read are complaining that Microsoft kept the one part of the iPod that iPod owners hate most - the DRM. So now, how different is the Zune from the iPod? Aside from the ability to 'squirt' songs (which are limited by DRM to three plays or three days) it isn't different from the iPod at all.

[JonnyFive]

Aside from the ability to 'squirt' songs (which are limited by DRM to three plays or three days) it isn't different from the iPod at all.

I does have a bigger screen, which might be good if you want to use it to watch movies. I was kind of thinking about using it to replace my Palm Pilot for movie watching on the train to work.

After hearing about all this, though, it doesn't seem worth it.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

I does have a bigger screen, which might be good if you want to use it to watch movies. I was kind of thinking about using it to replace my Palm Pilot for movie watching on the train to work.

After hearing about all this, though, it doesn't seem worth it.
I've got a Pocket PC, and unlike the Zune, I can:
-Easily upgrade my storage through CompactFlash cards. As they get cheaper, I get more storage. I recently bought a 2GB card for about $40.
-Play any MP3s or WMA un-DRMed through Windows Media player.
-Rip my DVDs and compress them enough that I can fit an entire movie on a CompactFlash card, and watch it through Media Player, or a better player if one comes along.
-Sync my Contacts, E-Mail, Calendar, Notes, Word and Excel documents automatically and view them on my device
-Wirelessly connect to my bluetooth GPS receiver, load mapping software, and get incredibly accurate driving directions anywhere in Canada and the US.
-Run older games like Quake, Tomb Raider, SimCity and Age of Empires that have been exactly ported from the Windows version.
-Listen to Audiobooks in a format I choose. I currently use Audible, but I'm not locked in to that format.
-Wirelessly connect to my bluetooth phone and surf the net anywhere I have a cell signal.
-Write my own software for it using the .NET Compact Framework.

... And all of this on a device that I bought 6 years ago. The Zune looks nice and all, but the only thing it offers me that my Pocket PC doesn't is the extra DRM. No thanks!

[JonnyFive]

... And all of this on a device that I bought 6 years ago. The Zune looks nice and all, but the only thing it offers me that my Pocket PC doesn't is the extra DRM. No thanks!

Yeah, that's how I feel about it, now that I've seen what this stupid Zune is all about. Even my crappy Tungsten E2 offers more, and it plays MP3s too. With no DRM.

What kind of Pocket PC?

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Yeah, that's how I feel about it, now that I've seen what this stupid Zune is all about. Even my crappy Tungsten E2 offers more, and it plays MP3s too. With no DRM.

What kind of Pocket PC?
I've got the HP iPaq h4350 (http://www.geekzone.co.nz/content.asp?contentid=2159). I like it because it's got the built in keyboard, 802.11b Wi-Fi, SD slot, IR, and bluetooth all built in. If I was to buy one now, I think I'd opt for a newer model with built in GSM/GPRS so I could use it as a phone as well.

[JonnyFive]

That's pretty cool. I'm not sure I have enough reason to run out and buy another PDA, but it is definitely cool.