They're coming to get De_Bunk!

[shemp]

Psychologists list potential murderers
(http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20828596-1702,00.html)

BRITISH criminal psychologists are putting together a list of the 100 most dangerous murderers and rapists before they have committed any such crimes, The Times has reported.

Experts from London's Metropolitan Police's Homicide Prevention Unit are creating psychological profiles, compiled through statements from previous partners, information from mental health workers, and details of past complaints.

Pilot projects to target high-risk future offenders have been operating in five London boroughs for about two months.

Once an individual has been targeted, police can decide whether to make moves towards an arrest - though the newspaper did not specify on what grounds this could occur - or they could alert relevant social services.

What a brilliant idea! Let's arrest people who we think are more likely to commit crimes before they can commit crimes! Let's base that decision on statements from previous partners, because we all know that previous partners would never bear a grudge and would never say anything but the best about a former partner!

Great idea! Yeah sure ya betcha!

P.S.: I do not think that De_Bunk is a potential murderer, nor do I think that there is anything in his past that would lead police to believe so. I use his name as an example of someone who has had minor brushes with the law, and to say that we ALL should be concerned about such BS from the police, and because we just plain LUV the guy!

[Darth Rotor]

Psychologists list potential murderers
(http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20828596-1702,00.html) What a brilliant idea! Let's arrest people who we think are more likely to commit crimes before they can commit crimes! Let's base that decision on statements from previous partners, because we all know that previous partners would never bear a grudge and would never say anything but the best about a former partner!

Great idea! Yeah sure ya betcha!

Minority Report for fifty, Alex. :mad:

DR

[Beerina]

Minority Report for fifty, Alex. :mad:

DR

I can't imagine a government ever abusing the power to arrest people before they commit a crime.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Well, it seems the logical thing to do is go out and murder and rape people now, so at least your arrest won't be unjust.

[Mycroft]

Psychologists list potential murderers
(http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,20828596-1702,00.html)





What a brilliant idea! Let's arrest people who we think are more likely to commit crimes before they can commit crimes! Let's base that decision on statements from previous partners, because we all know that previous partners would never bear a grudge and would never say anything but the best about a former partner!

Great idea! Yeah sure ya betcha!

P.S.: I do not think that De_Bunk is a potential murderer, nor do I think that there is anything in his past that would lead police to believe so. I use his name as an example of someone who has had minor brushes with the law, and to say that we ALL should be concerned about such BS from the police, and because we just plain LUV the guy!

Why do you hate the police?

[Garrette]

Why do you hate the police?They're American?


They might as well be, ever since Lapdog Blair has been in charge, yes?
/sycophant

[Marquis de Carabas]

They're American?

Only Copeland.

[corplinx]

Play devil's advocate. Knowing what we do of evolution, genetics, the illusion of "free will", environment, upbringing, psychology, and years of studying criminals; is it possible to make a list of of suspected criminals?

I would like to see a study where such a list is made, kept private to protect the names, and see the results of hits to misses.

I don't believe in criminals. I believe in defective people.

[Garrette]

Play devil's advocate. Knowing what we do of evolution, genetics, the illusion of "free will", environment, upbringing, psychology, and years of studying criminals; is it possible to make a list of of suspected criminals?

I would like to see a study where such a list is made, kept private to protect the names, and see the results of hits to misses.

I don't believe in criminals. I believe in defective people.So it gets back to the "Would you kill Hitler when he was a corporal" thing?

Or are they different? Is certainty based on hypothetical time-travel the same as certainty based on profiling? (Assuming the field progresses to that level)

[corplinx]

We can agree that someone technically insane who sees no difference between right and wrong must be treated chemically and/or locked away. There is the black. Where are the shades of grey stemming from that? Why aren't we profiling the deep/deep sociopaths who perhaps went to juvenile court over animal torture?

Playing devil's advocate is a bit fun on this topic since it makes people squirm on a few levels, including notions about the free will.

[Darth Rotor]

We can agree that someone technically insane who sees no difference between right and wrong must be treated chemically and/or locked away. There is the black. Where are the shades of grey stemming from that? Why aren't we profiling the deep/deep sociopaths who perhaps went to juvenile court over animal torture?

Playing devil's advocate is a bit fun on this topic since it makes people squirm on a few levels, including notions about the free will.
The matter at hand is the abandonment of hope, and of the ability of persons to learn and reform.

Some do and some don't. If you can quantify the why of that dynamic, you can approach the problem from the other end.

DR

[Marc L]

We can agree that someone technically insane who sees no difference between right and wrong must be treated chemically and/or locked away. There is the black. Where are the shades of grey stemming from that? Why aren't we profiling the deep/deep sociopaths who perhaps went to juvenile court over animal torture?

Because the police don't have the resources to do that, primarily. Additionally, just because someone is potentially likely to commit a crime doesn't mean that they actually will.

Marc

[Darat]

The article is a report of a newspaper article - anyone got anything that's not a secondary source for this story?

[This Guy]

The article is a report of a newspaper article - anyone got anything that's not a secondary source for this story?

Yea, and maybe the list of names?

I mean not that I'm afraid I'm on it or anything.

Just that ahh.. well, I'm trying to decide when and where I should go for vacation. Maybe I should leave now ;)

[De_Bunk]

I never wanted to a barber...

I always wanted to be a lumberjack....

DB

[fishbob]

I can't imagine a government ever abusing the power to arrest people before they commit a crime.

What planet are you from?

[LawnOven]

Perhaps the planet of sarcastic statements? :)

[The Atheist]

Well, it seems the logical thing to do is go out and murder and rape people now, so at least your arrest won't be unjust.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/10377455a24061f109.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=2607)

Shall we keep score?

[The Atheist]

I never wanted to a barber...

I always wanted to be a lumberjack....

DBSweeney Todd.

Pies, anyone?

[Garrette]

[quote=The Atheist;2131092]Sweeney Todd.[quote]Sweeney Todd was a lumberjack?

[shemp]

I never wanted to a barber...

I always wanted to be a lumberjack....

DB

So you don't want to murder, but you do want to cross-dress?

[Mercutio]

What a strange concept--taking the idea that we can predict inappropriate behavior from environmental variables, but still pinning the responsibility on the individuals rather than that environment.
Play devil's advocate. Knowing what we do of evolution, genetics, the illusion of "free will", environment, upbringing, psychology, and years of studying criminals; is it possible to make a list of of suspected criminals?
It would be much easier to make a list of bad environmental and upbringing practices. Seriously--we cannot at this point say "this person will commit murder" but we can say "this environment puts out more murderers than this other one". Seems to me the proper level of analysis for making a change is the environment.

I would like to see a study where such a list is made, kept private to protect the names, and see the results of hits to misses.
I agree. I would suggest doing the same thing with other predictive sets, like neighborhoods.

I don't believe in criminals. I believe in defective people.Defective why? Because of upbringing and environment (as you hint earlier)? In which case, you may believe in defective environments. Or because of some inherent (genetic or god-given, depending on your views) individual difference? In which case, there is little we can do.

eta: I did not quote corplinx to challenge anything in particular that he said, but only because it organized my own thoughts to do so.