Camp Inquiry Brainwashing Children?

[Miss Whiplash]

A friend passed along some information about the CFI Summer Camp (http://www.campinquiry.org/about.html) for 2007. Unfortunately, also passed along were statements from a really dumb woo forum. These people call the camp "brainwashing" and are screaming "profiteering!" because of the cost. Granted this is coming from a group of very unsophisticated people who believe wholeheartedly in Sylvia Browne and the paranormal in general. I have to consider the source when it comes to perceived outrage.

Hasn't the CFI held summer camps before, though? I seem to recall a science camp for children around 1998.

[tim]

I don't know, but I've had some dealings with CFI West. This strikes me as a pretty good step forward.

[Miss Whiplash]

I wish the Center for Inquiry would offer more of these camps, elsewhere in the country. Since America has such things as "Jesus Camp", Skeptic Camp is breath of fresh air.

[Cleon]

Amanda Chesworth, the woman running it, is one of the coolest people I've ever met. I'm sure the camp will be a worthwhile experience.

CFI, CSICOP, & Co. do have an issue with cost, but it goes beyond the summer camp. Pretty much all of their activities, conferences, etc. are priced pretty highly. Even the CFI cruise is 2-3 times the cost of the JREF cruise.

[Moochie]

Amanda Chesworth, the woman running it, is one of the coolest people I've ever met. I'm sure the camp will be a worthwhile experience.

CFI, CSICOP, & Co. do have an issue with cost, but it goes beyond the summer camp. Pretty much all of their activities, conferences, etc. are priced pretty highly. Even the CFI cruise is 2-3 times the cost of the JREF cruise.

Profiteering isn't restricted to woos alone.

I call for a boycott of all mercantile sharks, whether they call themselves "skeptics" or not.

M.

[CurtC]

What specifically were the woo people saying about it?

I listen to the Point of Inquiry podcast, so have been hearing about Camp Inquiry right from the horse's mouth. I wish they or others had good secular kids camps around here. So far I've found only Christian camps, and I have sent my older son to a couple, but it bothers me.

ETA: $500 for six days isn't expensive for a camp like this. Compare to Pine Cove (http://www.pinecove.com/summer-camps/youth-cost.php) Christian camp - $668 for five days.

[Miss Whiplash]

Amanda Chesworth, the woman running it, is one of the coolest people I've ever met. I'm sure the camp will be a worthwhile experience.

CFI, CSICOP, & Co. do have an issue with cost, but it goes beyond the summer camp. Pretty much all of their activities, conferences, etc. are priced pretty highly. Even the CFI cruise is 2-3 times the cost of the JREF cruise.

I've noticed the high prices of the cruise myself. I have no inkling of the cost needed to maintain the Center for Inquiry,( its libraries, education center, investigators, etc.) but I'm sure it's very expensive given the location. At least it is legally a Non-Profit Organization, unlike the majority of woos raking in the bucks.

[Miss Whiplash]

What specifically were the woo people saying about it?

I listen to the Point of Inquiry podcast, so have been hearing about Camp Inquiry right from the horse's mouth. I wish they or others had good secular kids camps around here. So far I've found only Christian camps, and I have sent my older son to a couple, but it bothers me.

ETA: $500 for six days isn't expensive for a camp like this. Compare to Pine Cove (http://www.pinecove.com/summer-camps/youth-cost.php) Christian camp - $668 for five days.

Specifically - skeptics are brainwashing children to be "close minded" to the idea of the supernatural and become "extreme skeptics." The cry of profiteering was was based on a comparison of a using a YMCA camp in Maryland as an indicator of reasonable cost.

[Moochie]

Specifically - skeptics are brainwashing children to be "close minded" to the idea of the supernatural and become "extreme skeptics." The cry of profiteering was was based on a comparison of a using a YMCA camp in Maryland as an indicator of reasonable cost.


Just my little quibble, but shouldn't it be "closed-minded"? Close-minded means something entirely different -- like near-minded, indicating, perhaps, a commonality of ideas.

Skeptics out to make a buck on their skepticism are just businesspersons in skeptics' clothing. Screw them!

M.

[CurtC]

OK, I've compared to two more popular Christian camps around here besides Pine Cove:

Sky Ranch (http://www.skyranch.org/skyranch/engine.cfm?i=28) - $760 or $825 for one week. Although a Christian camp, it's far less offensive than others: "We believe in the God of the Bible and His son Jesus Christ. We also believe everyone must make their own decision about these matters. That’s why we will do everything we can to ensure that every child knows they are loved regardless of their choice in these matters. Furthermore, our program will be designed to foster an attitude that allows for dialogue without condemnation. No child will ever be mocked, ridiculed, shamed, or made to feel inferior because of where they are in their pursuit of truth. Evangelistic fear tactics or denominational bigotry have nothing to do with Christ’s message of grace."

Rockin' C Ranch (http://www.rockincranch.org/camp.asp) - $399 or $499 for five days. A couple of years ago we signed our son up for their day camp, but the first thing on the list of what to bring was a Bible. We cancelled.

It looks to me like the Camp Inquiry is very reasonably priced.

[CurtC]

Just my little quibble, but shouldn't it be "closed-minded"?I think that's why he put it in quotes. "Close minded" is very common on the web and in emails, and is a good marker for sloppy thinking.

[CLD]

I think that's why he put it in quotes. "Close minded" is very common on the web and in emails, and is a good marker for sloppy thinking.

Wouldn't "close minded" imply that you kept your mind nearby ("close to you")? At least it's not spelled "clothes-minded" :)

[Moochie]

I think that's why he put it in quotes. "Close minded" is very common on the web and in emails, and is a good marker for sloppy thinking.

As far as I'm aware, it's more common to American English than British English.

M.

[Miss Whiplash]

As far as I'm aware, it's more common to American English than British English.

M.

Yes, it should be closed minds. However, I see "close mind" more often than not.

Skeptics out to make a buck on their skepticism are just businesspersons in skeptics' clothing. Screw them!

How does that apply to the Center for Inquiry, though? Does it apply to Randi also as he sells items on JREF?

[JonnyFive]

This a very good idea, it looks like it would really help to sharpen kids' minds.

I certainly would have enjoyed it as a child, I was always into science.

I went to Bible camp though, but it was kind of Bible Camp Lite, so the brainwashing was minimal.

[Miss Whiplash]

Ok, after doing a quick search on Camp Seven Hills and pricing:

From a registration form in for 2001 - the price of one week day camp only was $240. Camp Inquiry provides lodging, instructors and the rest of the amenities for $500/week. I would say that's reasonable for this particular location.

[JonnyFive]

Very. It seems that most overnight camps are within the same general range.

[Moochie]

How does that apply to the Center for Inquiry, though? Does it apply to Randi also as he sells items on JREF?

It doesn't apply to JREF, for it is a foundation to which we contribute as we are able. Access to the site is free, as it should be.

Unfortunately, there are some sites (which I won't name) that seem to think what they have on offer in the way of skeptical thought ought to be paid for. A pox on them.

M.

[Chris Haynes]

...I listen to the Point of Inquiry podcast, so have been hearing about Camp Inquiry right from the horse's mouth. I wish they or others had good secular kids camps around here. So far I've found only Christian camps, and I have sent my older son to a couple, but it bothers me.

ETA: $500 for six days isn't expensive for a camp like this. Compare to Pine Cove (http://www.pinecove.com/summer-camps/youth-cost.php) Christian camp - $668 for five days.


It could be worse! Almost two years ago I was sent a flyer for a Scientology summer program. It costs $900 just to apply! I posted about it here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=34172 (oh... you were there, sorry!).

Fortunately around here there are lots of different camps. From YMCA, random private, church, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts... and city parks department day camps. My kids have all done the city parks dept. "Nature Camp" (which was never more than $180/week)... and one has done a sleep-away camps with a school group and Girl Scouts (she has determined that she will never sleep in a tent again!), and one did a sleep-away music camp (which was held in a Baptist camp, but the folks who ran it have lost their lease to use the camp, and the church is trying to run its own music camp where they plan to inject religion... something that was not happening before. Story here, just not sure you can access it (http://archives.seattletimes.nwsource.com/cgi-bin/texis.cgi/web/vortex/display?slug=musiccamp19&date=20061119&).).

[ponderingturtle]

Ok, after doing a quick search on Camp Seven Hills and pricing:

From a registration form in for 2001 - the price of one week day camp only was $240. Camp Inquiry provides lodging, instructors and the rest of the amenities for $500/week. I would say that's reasonable for this particular location.

The camp I went to is 6500 for 8 weeks. Camp is just expensive

[Miss Whiplash]

The camp I went to is 6500 for 8 weeks. Camp is just expensive


It's like real estate. The price varies depending upon location. ;)

Evidently, the people on the woo forum didn't bother to check the CI's location or the rates. They simply saw the price and jumped to the conclusion CFI was making money hand over fist with Camp Inquiry.

[ponderingturtle]

It's like real estate. The price varies depending upon location. ;)

Evidently, the people on the woo forum didn't bother to check the CI's location or the rates. They simply saw the price and jumped to the conclusion CFI was making money hand over fist with Camp Inquiry.

Also on services and staff ratio. The camp I went to that now costs 6500 for a full summer, well it has exactly 1 building and no utilities, all the water is pumped by campers with a hand pump. Now the permemant buildings get taxed as if they where ski lodges for the other camps in the organization, because it is right around killington area.

Still their prices have gotten a bit out of perspective, and it might be subsudizing some of the year round activities of the organization that I went to.

Either way the Camp Inquirary is not at all out of reason for a summer camp, now their cruise cost vs JREF and such I can't comment on.