China's naming and shaming of sex workers and their clients

[Budhess]

On the Australian morning news today were footage of communist China lining up prostitutes and their clients of the streets of China publicly naming and shaming them. They were lined up and sequent called out, told their names family address etc. If anyone knows anything about Chinese culture that is the importance of saving face, the clients would especially be humiliated and angered. This would of course have many devistating affects on themselves and their family and social life. The girls would suffer so much more than public humiliation. I feel so much sympathy for this sitution being that I know a few sex workers are decent loyal friends. This situation has so many aspects to talk about where to I start?

What I have to say is one big Bitter laugh. Woopdeedoo...this is not a shock.

Firstly, besides from the abuse of free trade, I think it’s hypocritical that they would name and shame the very services that they have promoted: The One child Policy 1971-2, which has indirectly made over 50 million Chinese men finding it difficult to find a female partner and has pushed the rate of sex trade to a new high. The homosexuality and female infanticide also taking its toll over there. If it wasn’t for their regime (which I do not say I disagree with) then there wouldn't have been this increase in prostitutions and men requiring their services.

Secondly, they should be sensitive to the fact that many of these girls are forces into the sex worker job, many were kidnapped, forced or had hit a dead end, running the risk of poverty or the death of a family member and thus had to sell their bodies to grimy men for money. Many did NOT choose to do that job and yet they are being publicly named and shamed??? Some are doing this job secretly running the risk of a fiance they dearly love or a father finding out and disowning them. Where is the heart? Talk about brainless and irresponsible punishment for something many did not choose to do. Of course it is not an ideal job, no young girl grew up saying when I grow up I would want to be a sex worker.

Thirdly, I doubt that those officials doing the other side of the naming and shaming did not once use the services of their ladies:alc: . It is a corrupt system the claims governmential perfection on face value, it sickens me and makes me laugh so hard.

[Darth Rotor]

sad story

What I am trying to determine is whether or not prostitution is legal or not in China.

Is it illegal in all forms, or just in some forms?

If the desire is to crack (no pun intended) down on the sex trade, then the long term aim, or by product, would seem to be the promotion of more frequent masturbation, a recruiting drive for monasteries, or an explicit encouragement of men to pursue whatever homosexual urges they have, or may develop.

Has there been any increase in porn sales recently?

Confusing, to say the least.

DR

[Merko]

Someone else surely knows more about specific laws, but one thing that is important to understand about China is that our idea of being able to know clearly what is legal and what is not, does not apply in China. They have no such thing as a free and fair trial under the law.

Personally I don't complain too much about the shaming of the clients, but for much the same reason as the poster I fail to see how hurting the prostitutes even more would improve anything.

[steverino]

The One child Policy 1971-2, which has indirectly made over 50 million Chinese men finding it difficult to find a female partner and has pushed the rate of sex trade to a new high.


I am having a blonde moment here.:boggled: I am not connecting the dots between the "One Child Policy" and 50,000,000 horny Chinese dudes.
Can someone explain?

[daredelvis]

I am having a blonde moment here.:boggled: I am not connecting the dots between the "One Child Policy" and 50,000,000 horny Chinese dudes.
Can someone explain?


Male children are highly valued, so many girl babies ended up having their sculls cracked on a rock shortly after birth. There is a huge imbalance between the numbers of men and women in China. one-child policy
"The sex ratio at birth (between male and female births) in mainland China reached 117:100 in the year 2000, substantially higher than the natural baseline, which ranges between 103:100 and 107:100. It had risen from 108:100 in 1981 -- at the boundary of the natural baseline -- to 111:100 in 1990.[13] Other Asian regions also have higher than average ratios, including Taiwan (110:100), and South Korea (108:100), which do not have a strict family planning policy.[8]

The high preponderance of reported male births in mainland China has been attributed to four main causes: diseases which affect females more severely than males; the result of widespread under-reporting of female births[9] ; the illegal practice of sex-selective abortion made possible by the widespread availability of ultrasound; and finally, acts of child abandonment and infanticide."

Taiwan and South Korea throw a wrench in the works. Hard to know if the policy is responsible or not. Lots of men out in the cold either way.

Daredelvis

[fishbob]

You only get one kid, boys are valued, girls are not - resulting in female infanticide, thus a skewed male/female ratio.

And DD beat me to the keyboard.

[steverino]

That's the most depressing thing I ever read. Still, thank you for the explanations. I would like to think the "ultra-sound, then abortion, option" is overtaking the "head smashed on the rocks option," but still, an 8.5 month abortion is brutal. And just when I was working up a head of steam against the recent reported killing of millions of dogs in China. I guess dogs and females don't rank so high there. Maybe there will be more international outcry when their country is spot-lighted around the Olympics.

[This Guy]

That's the most depressing thing I ever read. Still, thank you for the explanations. I would like to think the "ultra-sound, then abortion, option" is overtaking the "head smashed on the rocks option," but still, an 8.5 month abortion is brutal. And just when I was working up a head of steam against the recent reported killing of millions of dogs in China. I guess dogs and females don't rank so high there. Maybe there will be more international outcry when their country is spot-lighted around the Olympics.

Problem is that there won't be any bashed babies, or dead dogs around the Olympics, or anywhere else folks visiting will be allowed to go. China will make sure that those coming for the Olympics see a very controlled and managed view of China.

[DanishDynamite]

On the Australian morning news today were footage of communist China lining up prostitutes and their clients of the streets of China publicly naming and shaming them. They were lined up and sequent called out, told their names family address etc. If anyone knows anything about Chinese culture that is the importance of saving face, the clients would especially be humiliated and angered. This would of course have many devistating affects on themselves and their family and social life. The girls would suffer so much more than public humiliation. I feel so much sympathy for this sitution being that I know a few sex workers are decent loyal friends. This situation has so many aspects to talk about where to I start?

What I have to say is one big Bitter laugh. Woopdeedoo...this is not a shock.

Firstly, besides from the abuse of free trade, I think it’s hypocritical that they would name and shame the very services that they have promoted: The One child Policy 1971-2, which has indirectly made over 50 million Chinese men finding it difficult to find a female partner and has pushed the rate of sex trade to a new high. The homosexuality and female infanticide also taking its toll over there. If it wasn’t for their regime (which I do not say I disagree with) then there wouldn't have been this increase in prostitutions and men requiring their services.

Secondly, they should be sensitive to the fact that many of these girls are forces into the sex worker job, many were kidnapped, forced or had hit a dead end, running the risk of poverty or the death of a family member and thus had to sell their bodies to grimy men for money. Many did NOT choose to do that job and yet they are being publicly named and shamed??? Some are doing this job secretly running the risk of a fiance they dearly love or a father finding out and disowning them. Where is the heart? Talk about brainless and irresponsible punishment for something many did not choose to do. Of course it is not an ideal job, no young girl grew up saying when I grow up I would want to be a sex worker.

Thirdly, I doubt that those officials doing the other side of the naming and shaming did not once use the services of their ladies:alc: . It is a corrupt system the claims governmential perfection on face value, it sickens me and makes me laugh so hard.
Yes, it is an unfair and hypocritical action to take. But what else can you expect from a country run exclusively by one party?

[Budhess]

That's the most depressing thing I ever read. Still, thank you for the explanations. I would like to think the "ultra-sound, then abortion, option" is overtaking the "head smashed on the rocks option," but still, an 8.5 month abortion is brutal. And just when I was working up a head of steam against the recent reported killing of millions of dogs in China. I guess dogs and females don't rank so high there. Maybe there will be more international outcry when their country is spot-lighted around the Olympics.

The catch is that ultra sounds are banned, abortions are fined with a high fee, yet parents with 2 children will be shamed and also fined. They will receieve no government support and basically a very horrible life. parents have absolutely no idea what sex their baby is until it is born and then you must drown it in a buckte of water if it turns out to be a girl.
Women are under a lot of predjudices, to meet the demand to produce an heir (as Ancient Chinese values believe that boys are complete human beings and girls are only half) They also run the risk of poverty and being alone in their old age because girls cannot stay to look after them when they are old. Daughters are always married off, so the parents with one child will end up with no child. Looks like a bad investment for they go for boys....thus too many boys being born. It looks like by 2020, the aging population of China will see economical inflation and a higher demand of old age care...suppose 1 nurse for 10 old persons, there over a few million nurses. Who will pay for that? The one child will also be known as "little emperors" meaning spoiled self centred brats who wont care for their parents.... So much for confucius's Filial Piety


The future of china looks corrupt and in moral decay.

[The Atheist]

The future of china looks corrupt and in moral decay.I had a friend of mine comment recently about what China will be like in twenty years' time - one billion people, all only children. Ugh.

[steverino]

(as Ancient Chinese values believe that boys are complete human beings and girls are only half).

Like Adam's Rib?

They also run the risk of poverty and being alone in their old age because girls cannot stay to look after them when they are old. Daughters are always married off,.

I mean no disrespect, but I am confused. Please explain. Who is alone at old age? Unmarried men? Widowed women?

[steverino]

Like Adam's Rib?



I mean no disrespect, but I am confused. Please explain. Who is alone at old age? Unmarried men? Widowed women?

I think I see. You mean an elderly Chinese couple who had just one child, a daughter. Right? The daughter is married and elsewhere, so no other siblings to help parents? What about all the bachelors without wives? Wouldn't they fill the void?

[Budhess]

I think I see. You mean an elderly Chinese couple who had just one child, a daughter. Right? The daughter is married and elsewhere, so no other siblings to help parents? What about all the bachelors without wives? Wouldn't they fill the void?

Well would you go to a strangers family if you were bachelor male and just look after some old people for the rest of your life? Hahah I dont think so. Chinese depend on their child to look after them in old age, however if the one child is a girl then she will be married off, that means that you will be poor hungry and lonely in old age because there are no children to look after you, only two old disabled bodies. In the old days it wasnt a problem because the average female had 6 children, now it is only allowed one. You figure it out.


Regarding the pornography in China, theres a news article I found today on the Sydney Morning Herald website

"Chief of China's biggest Internet porn site jailed for life- A 28-year-old man who ran China's most popular pornographic website community with up to 600,000 members has been jailed for life."[/URL]

[ARubberChickenWithAPulley]

I think I see. You mean an elderly Chinese couple who had just one child, a daughter. Right? The daughter is married and elsewhere, so no other siblings to help parents? What about all the bachelors without wives? Wouldn't they fill the void?

Probably not, unless China instituted some sort of state-run "elderly care" program. Aside from what Budhess mentioned about there being no cultural precedent for peopel to take care of other people's parents, there is also the simple matter of numbers. Traditionally it takes two people to take care of one set of parents (a husband and a wife). Since each set of parents are only allowed to produce one child, there will naturally be a large set of elderly couples without children to take care of them. Even bachelors would still have the responsibility to take care of their own parents, so there would be no surplus of bachelors to take care of the elderly, even if they wanted to.

[Badger]

I assume these are merely Chinese clients and not the foreigners encouraged to visit similar "places of business" and dump a load of cash there?

I think the Chinese will probably deal with the problem of aging population in a coldly "pragmatic" fashion.

This assumes no radical cultural change through exposure to outside influences.

[steverino]

Well would you go to a strangers family if you were bachelor male and just look after some old people for the rest of your life? Hahah I dont think so. Chinese depend on their child to look after them in old age, however if the one child is a girl then she will be married off, that means that you will be poor hungry and lonely in old age because there are no children to look after you, only two old disabled bodies. In the old days it wasnt a problem because the average female had 6 children, now it is only allowed one. You figure it out.


Regarding the pornography in China, theres a news article I found today on the Sydney Morning Herald website

"Chief of China's biggest Internet porn site jailed for life- A 28-year-old man who ran China's most popular pornographic website community with up to 600,000 members has been jailed for life."[/URL]

Hey. Wait a second. I never said anything about Chinese porn! :boggled:

[Dave1001]

I had a friend of mine comment recently about what China will be like in twenty years' time - one billion people, all only children. Ugh.

I've read China is likely to be the first country to become old before it becomes rich.

[Darth Rotor]

Hey. Wait a second. I never said anything about Chinese porn! :boggled:
"Chief of China's biggest Internet porn site jailed for life- A 28-year-old man who ran China's most popular pornographic website community with up to 600,000 members has been jailed for life."
Silly Chinese government, don't they know what the internet is for?

DR

[Beerina]

I had a friend of mine comment recently about what China will be like in twenty years' time - one billion people, all only children. Ugh.

Worse than that will be 50 million men who can't get a wife. 50 million angry men, in a country with a reasonably powerful economy and a billion and a half people. You do the math.

[Kaylee]

So as a result of all these social pressures -- any chance that some of their values and customs will change?

Women (and therefore daughters) become more valued and elderly parents living near their child regardless of gender?

Its interesting that despite the numbers being in their favor and apparently cultural mores being against it -- a large enough percentage of women are opting for prostitution vs. marriage -- or at least enough for the govt to make an issue of it.

[Kaylee]

Worse than that will be 50 million men who can't get a wife. 50 million angry men, in a country with a reasonably powerful economy and a billion and a half people. You do the math.
Think the govt will filter out the spam for e-mail brides? :D

Someone told me a long time ago that most people create their own problems -- I guess nations do too.

[Darth Rotor]

Someone told me a long time ago that most people create their own problems -- I guess nations do too.
Check the US National Debt for further evidence. :p

DR

[Budhess]

Women (and therefore daughters) become more valued and elderly parents living near their child regardless of gender?



Actually you are right, at the moment Women are low in number, therefore a woman's standards for a husband is quite high, Bachelors in the country have to find jobs in the city, achieve some sort of academic degree and overall beat all the other guys to her heart. Few eh!:heartbeat: (thats a lot of poetry and roses) With more Westernised thinking on Women in China, are now dating more, trying out the guys before she marries them ;) and they are also smarter, more individual and can look after themselves, so today women look for love not for finacial support or cultural acceptance..well more or less.

Also like I said in my first post, because woman are scarce due to this government regime....prostitution has risen...why? Because there arent enough vaginas..haha :blush:


The standard for beauty has also changed...100 years ago womens feet were bound to 3 inches, all the toes were broken and wrapped in bandages for the rest of her life, walking was difficult, every second of her life was painful and she was crippled. She could not run away from rape, the wrath of an angry drunk husband or mother in law....luckily they banned this act when he communists arrived...however today there is a new trend: that is leg extensions which is the removing of a piece of bone in your botton leg with a longer piece of steel and letting it extend the length of your leg for 1 year bed ridden. So basically you are crippled for a year...well beats footbinding anyway :scared:

[Canadian Malcontent]

Worse than that will be 50 million men who can't get a wife. 50 million angry men, in a country with a reasonably powerful economy and a billion and a half people. You do the math.

beerina do not sweat that, china wont make it past the Euphrates,

But thats not why I am posting.

All prostitutes are rape victims and their condition is ongoing rape tacitly sanctioned by society.
Why? because 99.9% of prostitutes were molested as children.
Their sexuality was taken from them by force and so they do not value it
beyond the $10-$1000 dollars they can sell it for.
This is our greatest social problem.
Prostitution should be classed as medical condition for the seller and a major crime for the buyer.
Over ten years we should introduce mandatory prison terms for johns, and pimping should carry a life sentence ( and dont give me that crap, there ARE women that will f*** these guys) and at the same time address the root cause of prostitution, which is child molestation and subsequent abandonment of the victims by society.
When you see a hooker that is a woman in an ongoing lifelong rape event.

P.S. only upperclass women had their feet bound

[Garrette]

beerina do not sweat that, china wont make it past the Euphrates,If they get that far, they'll have India, Iran, and much of the oilfields of Iraq, not to mention the central Asian states. Pretty scary, imo.

All prostitutes are rape victims and their condition is ongoing rape tacitly sanctioned by society.Really? All of them?

because 99.9% of prostitutes were molested as children.Of course you have evidence for this, yes?

Their sexuality was taken from them by force and so they do not value it
beyond the $10-$1000 dollars they can sell it for.Ever meet any of the legal sex-workers in Nevada, Germany, Denmark?

This is our greatest social problem.Greater than abortion?

Greater than steroid use in the MLB?

Prostitution should be classed as medical condition for the sellef??

and a major crime for the buyer.Why?

Over ten yearsWhy "ten?"

we should introduce mandatory prison terms for johns,All of them?

and pimping should carry a life sentence In some cases, I agree, but in those cases my reasoning we be more along the lines of kidnapping, slavery, battery, and rape, not sex.

( and dont give me that crap,What crap?

there ARE women that will f*** these guys) In what sense?

and at the same time address the root cause of prostitution, which is child molestation and subsequent abandonment of the victims by society.Again: Evidence?

[Foolmewunz]

>New York City enacted a similar program back in the 80's or 90's, and various municipalities have been "naming John's" in the USA for years. In one case, in Brockton, MA resulting in the "perp" commiting suicide.

>The face issue would apply to the women, not the customers. Men are considered "butterflies" in China, and are sort of expected to flit from flower to flower. They're going to catch Hell at home, but there won't be any suicides, IMHO.

>Leg Extension Surgery is now banned in China (last month). http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10409409

>Ultrasound has become portable. It is readily available, even in remote areas (if for the wrong reasons). See below.

>Infanticide was far more prevalent in the thousand years before the communists took over than it has been since. No denying, there were and are still cases of gendercide against female offspring, but it's not nearly as common as in India, the beacon of democracy in Asia.

>Prenatal abortion for sex selection is common, but it's no where near at the 8th month. Where did that factoid come from?

@Daredelvis - accurate post other than the bashing the skull on the rock bit.
Admittedly, this was possibly common in the past, but it demonizes the Chinese a bit too much. It's no easier for a Chinese parent to commit infanticide than it is for any other parent, and as the education and literacy rate in China has risen, the practice is far less common than we are led to believe.

The four(of five) reasons you cite, though are accurate as far as I've been able to determine. The high preponderance of reported male births in mainland China has been attributed to four main causes: diseases which affect females more severely than males; the result of widespread under-reporting of female births[9] ; the illegal practice of sex-selective abortion made possible by the widespread availability of ultrasound; and finally, acts of child abandonment and infanticide." .... but with some clarification.
The diseases aren't treated in many cases, encouraging early death.
Under-reporting in China is very easy to get away with, and it's rampant.
Ultra-sound - I concur fully. Studies show that in some villages women report very high abortion rates, and of those, something like 80/85% were female fetuses.
Childa abandonment is to state-run orphanages, althought they're not orphans at all, simply abandoned. (One of the reasons China supports western adoptions.... mostly of females.) I would hesitate to lump abandonment and infanticide into the same group, though. I believe gendercide to be a distant fifth place.
A good source - and they are no apologist for any form of infanticide:
http://www.gendercide.org/case_infanticide.html
I've found studies from both China and the west that support their contentions.

As to Taiwan - ultrasound again. I lived in Taiwan and still have many friends there. Women are marrying much later, and they are far more traditionally Chinese than even China (they brought the conservative culture with them in '49, and did not have the revolutionary indoctrination that the Chinese went thorugh). Thus, if they can select their baby's sex, they will do so (I know women who have). I have no living experience in Korea, but I have heard the same thing; that women are marrying later and having smaller families so want male offspring.

[ponderingturtle]

P.S. only upperclass women had their feet bound

Wrong, it started there but spread through out society.

[Darth Rotor]

Prostitution should be classed as medical condition for the seller and a major crime for the buyer.

Well, there's a page out of Cotton Mather's playbook. :p

I have mixed feelings about prostitution, but see no reason to make being horny a felony. The jails are overcrowded enough as it is.

On the one hand, legalized prostitution seems to appeal as making the best of a bad situation. Ideally, the above board nature would be conducive to reducing graft, cutting out the pimp middle man (and replacing him with middle management? :confused: ) and taxing it. (Not a bad idea, we tax whiskey and cigarettes as well. ) On the other hand, it would legitimize objectifying women, and men, who work in the profession. I am not sure what that would lead to in the long run, but my sense is that it might make people more apt to look at other people as sexual objects, which I think is a poor baseline for social interaction. (It is also the basis for quite a bit of the ad industry, it seems.)

One possible upside would be people learning earlier in life that physical elements to sex are not the same as love. Perhaps a better approach to genuine personal relationships would arise that don't have the desperate search for nookie as an undercurrent.

I don't know what it would do to the entire "tease" set of behavior some women use to manipulate men. Increase it's intensity, or not?

As it stands now, prostitution is around, won't go anywhere soon, and aids and abets some other crimes (drug use, etc) as well as posing a public health risk.

If it were legal, it would cause stress to some parents who worry about their daughters, and for that matter sons, taking up the trade as a profession. :P When all is said and done, there is no easy answer.

DR

[steverino]

All prostitutes are rape victims and their condition is ongoing rape tacitly sanctioned by society.
Why? because 99.9% of prostitutes were molested as children.



So basically what you are saying here is that child molesting should be outlawed? I though it was.

[Foolmewunz]

Originally Posted by Canadian Malcontent

All prostitutes are rape victims and their condition is ongoing rape tacitly sanctioned by society.
Why? because 99.9% of prostitutes were molested as children.

So basically what you are saying here is that child molesting should be outlawed? I though it was.

The contention that all prostitutes started out as child molestation victims is dubious, at best. I've read some stuff from either Portland or Seattle (can't recall) that said 80/85% of prostitutes claimed sexual abuse as children.

But that does not apply in Asia. (There are equally repulsive problems here - selling children into brothels, kidnapping, etc.... But there are many "free will" prostitutes who elected to get into the business.)

[steverino]

I don't know what it would do to the entire "tease" set of behavior some women use to manipulate me.
DR

I was in a mall the other day. 'Tis the season to dress up your 7 year-old daughter like a little hooker? Geeze. It sends a confusing message to well-adjusted men and a dangerous message to perverts. Why are parents sexualizing their children, and where does the rape componant come into play regarding the parent's mind-set of dressing the kid like that?

[ponderingturtle]

If it were legal, it would cause stress to some parents who worry about their daughters, and for that matter sons, taking up the trade as a profession. :P When all is said and done, there is no easy answer.

DR

Is this opposed to the stress free lives that the parents of unregulated illegal prostitues live in now?

[Garrette]

Is this opposed to the stress free lives that the parents of unregulated illegal prostitues live in now?Why, yes. Yes it is.

When all is said and done, there is no easy answer. Well, I want one.

Question is: Should I take the Republican easy answer or the Democratic easy answer?

[Kaylee]

Actually you are right, at the moment Women are low in number, therefore a woman's standards for a husband is quite high, Bachelors in the country have to find jobs in the city, achieve some sort of academic degree and overall beat all the other guys to her heart. Few eh!:heartbeat: (thats a lot of poetry and roses) With more Westernised thinking on Women in China, are now dating more, trying out the guys before she marries them ;) and they are also smarter, more individual and can look after themselves, so today women look for love not for finacial support or cultural acceptance..well more or less.

I'm curious what the effect of all this will be on their culture. In the short-term will the Chinese become more accepting of immigration in order to balance out the gender numbers (assuming that anyone would want to immigrate there..)? Will the generaton becoming parents now decide to value their daughters as highly as their sons, as a result of their experiences?


The standard for beauty has also changed...100 years ago womens feet were bound to 3 inches, all the toes were broken and wrapped in bandages for the rest of her life, walking was difficult, every second of her life was painful and she was crippled. She could not run away from rape, the wrath of an angry drunk husband or mother in law....luckily they banned this act when he communists arrived...however today there is a new trend: that is leg extensions which is the removing of a piece of bone in your botton leg with a longer piece of steel and letting it extend the length of your leg for 1 year bed ridden. So basically you are crippled for a year...well beats footbinding anyway :scared:
Footbinding to leg extensions -- really gruesome stuff. Well a couple of hundred years ago, Western women were wearing corsets which were unhealthy too although I doubt it was as unhealthy or painful as footbinding. I read the articles and they didn't make it clear. Were only women going for the leg extensions, or were the men going for it too?

[Foolmewunz]

I'm curious what the effect of all this will be on their culture. In the short-term will the Chinese become more accepting of immigration in order to balance out the gender numbers (assuming that anyone would want to immigrate there..)? Will the generaton becoming parents now decide to value their daughters as highly as their sons, as a result of their experiences?

The effect is that women are becoming more selective in choosing their mates and if they aren't happy, divorce is actualy no longer unthinkable. There are plenty of worse places in the region, economically, so Chinese males who can afford it are now going afield to places like Viet Nam to find brides.



Footbinding to leg extensions -- really gruesome stuff. Well a couple of hundred years ago, Western women were wearing corsets which were unhealthy too although I doubt it was as unhealthy or painful as footbinding. I read the articles and they didn't make it clear. Were only women going for the leg extensions, or were the men going for it too?

I believe the pressure is greater for males. There are numerous ads on television for insoles and stacked heels to make you as much as 5 cm (2.5 inches) taller. It's a status thing. We had an advert running on TV here (that has been pulled) for what looked to me like a medieval "rack". It showed a depressed kid at the dinner table and then miraculously (like TV advertising everywhere) just by five minutes a day of putting himself on this device he actually "straightens and stretches" his spine so that he now appears to be about 7 or 8 cm taller. Of course in the final shot he's all well-adjusted and such. I haven't been able to determine, but I hope it was taken off the air because it was dangerous! You literally strapped your feet in and then put another strap under you chin on the other end, and cranked until you extended your spine! Horrific!

[Kaylee]

The effect is that women are becoming more selective in choosing their mates and if they aren't happy, divorce is actualy no longer unthinkable. There are plenty of worse places in the region, economically, so Chinese males who can afford it are now going afield to places like Viet Nam to find brides.
Interesting. So a cultural practice that has resulted from the low value that women had in Chinese society has ended up giving them more options, and possibly even elevated their social status. Ironic! :)

I see Buddhess basically answered my question earlier also. My apologies Buddhess for not realizing that earlier -- I don't always mutitask well. :o


I believe the pressure is greater for males. There are numerous ads on television for insoles and stacked heels to make you as much as 5 cm (2.5 inches) taller. It's a status thing. We had an advert running on TV here (that has been pulled) for what looked to me like a medieval "rack". It showed a depressed kid at the dinner table and then miraculously (like TV advertising everywhere) just by five minutes a day of putting himself on this device he actually "straightens and stretches" his spine so that he now appears to be about 7 or 8 cm taller. Of course in the final shot he's all well-adjusted and such. I haven't been able to determine, but I hope it was taken off the air because it was dangerous! You literally strapped your feet in and then put another strap under you chin on the other end, and cranked until you extended your spine! Horrific!
So leg extensions are still legal in Hong Kong? Yikes! The second contraption you describe literally sounds like a medieval torture device. I'm sure I read about it in one of my history books... way back when.

I wonder why it is that some cultures are willing to literally destroy their bodies for the sake of [their idea of ] beauty. Its interesting that both genders in China are/were willing to do this. Men with leg extensions and women in the past with feetbinding. But I think the articles that Buddhess linked to indicated that not all the people opting for leg extensions realize that it doesn't always work and that they may end up crippled. Its hard to believe that something like that could be kept hidden from general knowledge though.

[steverino]

Can someone help me with this? I love words, and we all seem to be confusing the two words "sex" and "gender" the way people confuse "bring" and "take."
I am not trying in any way to belittle the topic at hand. But I do think we are not using the words right.

[Foolmewunz]

Can someone help me with this? I love words, and we all seem to be confusing the two words "sex" and "gender" the way people confuse "bring" and "take."
I am not trying in any way to belittle the topic at hand. But I do think we are not using the words right.


Not sure what you're getting at. "Sex" and "gender" are synonyms. "Bring" and "take" are antonyms.

@Shera - actually, leg extension surgery for "other than cosmetic" reasons is legal in China. I haven't checked on whether it's legal in Hong Kong.

[ponderingturtle]

Not sure what you're getting at. "Sex" and "gender" are synonyms. "Bring" and "take" are antonyms.


I have seen arguements for different definitions of sex vs gender, mainly one being physical and one being social, but it is very pendantic in this discussion differentiate them to that degree.

[American]

Were my name put to shame, I would try to blend in and hope everyone is racist enough not to tell us apart.

[steverino]

I have seen arguements for different definitions of sex vs gender, mainly one being physical and one being social, but it is very pendantic in this discussion differentiate them to that degree.

Not sure what you mean. I think people tend to say "gender" when they mean "sex" because it seems more polite. Again, there is a specific use for each.

[Kaylee]

@steverino I wasn't sure what you were getting at either. Just for the heck of it, I did go ahead and look up both words in www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com).

It appears that the way gender can be used has been expanded.

Usage Note (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/gender)Traditionally, gender has been used primarily to refer to the grammatical categories of “masculine,” “feminine,” and “neuter,” but in recent years the word has become well established in its use to refer to sex-based categories, as in phrases such as gender gap and the politics of gender.

[steverino]

@steverino I wasn't sure what you were getting at either. Just for the heck of it, I did go ahead and look up both words in in www.dictionary.com (http://www.dictionary.com).

It appears that the way gender can be used has been expanded.



Thank you for checking this out. It does seem as though the two terms are blending more and more. Again, I did not want to derail this interesting and disturbing thread, but thanks.:)

[Kaylee]

Thank you for checking this out. It does seem as though the two terms are blending more and more. Again, I did not want to derail this interesting and disturbing thread, but thanks.:)
My pleasure -- you did get me curious. And I try to speaks n writes good English... ;)

[steverino]

My pleasure -- you did get me curious. And I try to speaks n writes good English... ;)

And a fine sesquepedalian to boot!;)

[Budhess]

I have seen arguments for different definitions of sex vs. gender, mainly one being physical and one being social, but it is very pedantic in this discussion differentiate them to that degree.

Well according to Society and cultural studied, gender is basically the expectations and systematic construct of what your sex is suppose to be, how they behave speak and dress. Sex is the biological structure that one is born. Two very different things..

- Wow I didn’t know Leg extensions are banned for cosmetic reasons now, but with how Communism can be corrupt most of the time, I can see many loop holes in which a little money cant crack into the system


- Basically I started this topic to say how angry I feel about the naming and shaming of prostitutes ....by no other than their own clients...those lousy Chinese police. I'll be dammed if they never once used the service of those women before.

- With the marrying or brides from Vietnam and other Asian nations...it looks like there will be a future multicultural China and more devastated Vietnamese women being sold off as sex slaves to China under the trickery of "mail order bride" services. The internet acts as a dangerous catalogue for Chinese and Taiwanese men to pick and choose naive Vietnamese girls (who believe that they will be getting a few thousand Yuen if they married a stranger) then as soon as they arrive at Chinas airport, they are immediately snatched, shoved into a car and sold into a burlesque house to treated like animals until their flesh hurt. :ghost: In those conditions...I'd rather die.