Jason Bermas Back-Pedelling.

[JAStewart]

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/12/message-from-jason-bermas.html

Trying to cover his ass just in time for the debate.

[beachnut]

so I will continue to do my best at sticking to the facts, and try and not let my emotions get the best of me.
Peace and Love
Jason Bermas


You have it posted, Bermas will no long be talking about 9/11!!!!

[chipmunk stew]

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/12/message-from-jason-bermas.html

Trying to cover his ass just in time for the debate.
I would just like to apologize for the comment I made to one Abby Scott on September 9th of this past year. I made the MISTAKE of saying that the firefighters were paid off, I did not mean this, and am convinced some sort of Jedi Mind trick was pulled on me.
Weak-minded fool...

Master Abby, please teach me the way of the Jedi.

:duel

[R.Mackey]

I made the MISTAKE of saying that the firefighters were paid off, I did not mean this, and am convinced some sort of Jedi Mind trick was pulled on me.

What is it with Loosers and their pathetic excuses?

Why did it take him three months to come clean, if he really believes this?

Will it only be a matter of time before they make excuses for all of the lies they've told, leading them to drop their entire position? And will this alienate the rest of their little fan club?

Any apology is better than none, but still... this only further highlights the depths to which these profiteers have sunk.

[realitybites]

Weak-minded fool...

Master Abby, please teach me the way of the Jedi.

:duel
Alex Jones to Gravy: Let me see your identification!!
Gravy: You don't need to see my identification.
AJ: I don't need to see your identification.
Gravy: These are the facts you're looking for.
AJ: Here are the facts I was looking for.
Gravy: You can go about your business being a douche.
AJ: I think I'm gonna get back to being a douche.
Gravy: Here's your megaphone.
AJ. Here's my megaphone. Here's my megaphone.

[realitybites]

http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/12/message-from-jason-bermas.html

Trying to cover his ass just in time for the debate.
In all honesty, I'm surprised he admitted what he said instead of just flat-out denying it.

Jason Bermas: Almost a Real Human Being.

[JAStewart]

Oh, Dylan just banned me over at LC for posting this :D

[slingblade]

"Jedi mind trick?"

So he's apologizing for accusing FDNY of being complicit in the murders of some 3000 people, and he thinks a humorous disavowal of his personal responsibility in making that accusation is somehow appropriate?

Bermas: "It's not that I'm a complete and utter moron--it's that fictional good-guys took control of my mind and made me say something completely and utterly moronic! Brilliant! It removes my responsibility for my own thoughts and words, and it's funny, too! My work here is done. Time to crack a beer and play some Wii!"

Jason, recast your apology and this time, don't bring the funny. Just humbly admit you were wrong, and say you are sorry. Be a real man, and not a cardboard cutout version of one.

[JAStewart]

Oh and it was on the basis of Bermas not being allowed say anything bad but when Gravy calls someone an ******* he gets away with it - Has Dylan given Gravy the chance to explain why he called that guy an *******? 'Cause he told me why he did. And it seemed reasonable, and quite understandable.

[VespaGuy]

I'm going to use CT logic regarding this:

Osama Bin Laden intially denied involvement in 9/11 which contradicts the governments story. Later he admitted involvement, thus proving that the real Osama was actually murdered by the government and the second "Osama" was actually fake.

Sooooo....

Bermas intially said the the firefighters were paid off, which contradicts Dylan's comments. Later Bermas admitted that he doesn't think the firemen are involved, thus proving that the real Jason Bermas was actually murdered by Dylan and the second Bermas is actually fake!!

[chipmunk stew]

What is it with Loosers and their pathetic excuses?

Why did it take him three months to come clean, if he really believes this?

Will it only be a matter of time before they make excuses for all of the lies they've told, leading them to drop their entire position? And will this alienate the rest of their little fan club?

Any apology is better than none, but still... this only further highlights the depths to which these profiteers have sunk.
This is no apology.
some how I said "The firefighters are paid off"
"some how"??? What you actually said, Jason, was:
The firefighters ARE paid off!
As though it was the most obvious thing in the world.

I know when trying to expose this movement to the world it must be presented in a concise manner with little room for error, so I will continue to do my best at sticking to the facts, and try and not let my emotions get the best of me.
"Do, or do not. There is no try."
Jedi lesson of the day brought to you by Yoda.

[R.Mackey]

This is no apology.
Well, it's definitely not a very good apology, but I still see it as a net positive.

On one hand, these kids are clearly not used to apologizing, no matter how wacky their claims. Maybe this is a start.

On the other hand, we now have -- in their own words -- yet another admission that everything they say is suspect. This retraction ranks up there with the famous "mistakes were left in intentionally" gaffe.

To Dylan, Korey, and Jason, whom I know will read this directly or have it brought to their attention: You cannot have it both ways. Either you stick to your fantasies, or you begin on the long and painful road back to honesty. Perhaps this is a first step. Do the right thing, and the sooner the better.

[Brainster]

I suspect the fact that I brought this up on SLC (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/11/i-love-it-when-this-happens_30.html) yesterday may have something to do with Bermas' apology.

ETA: Or, of course, it may have been JA Stewart's posting this on the LC forums.

[JamesB]

Weak-minded fool...

Master Abby, please teach me the way of the Jedi.

:duel

Damn, and I thought I was being original with that joke. :D

[chipmunk stew]

Damn, and I thought I was being original with that joke. :D
Great minds, and all that.

[uk_dave]

Ahhh it's a storm in a teacup

I mean, the loose change boys are only accusing people of mass murder and the worlds media and politicians of complicity.

Nothing to get worked up about that.

Of course a journalist in the much maligned mainstream media would have been fired for making that comment during a broadcast, but ...well.....does bermas actually HAVE a job?

[Brainster]

Note also that Bermas has not changed his mind about the firemen supposedly having evidence that would prove the CT, just about why they are keeping quiet:

I truly believe that they were threatened in the aftermath of the event that not only traumatized a country, but still affect their lives deeply to this very day. Many of these men have families, and would do anything to keep them safe.

So it's threats, not payoffs? I suppose that's a little better.:rolleyes:

[Oliver]

Drama Queens! :D

[stateofgrace]

And, of course, within one hour of posting, our good buddies at SLC and JREF, who do not deserve a mention let alone a link, call this "back-pedaling." No, this is called, "admitting to a mistake and apologizing for it."

posted by dylan avery at 12:09 PM (http://loosechange911.blogspot.com/2006/12/message-from-jason-bermas.html)


Ah,but you did mention us Dylan, why would you do that?

No,Dylan it is not called a mistake and apologizing for it. It is called shooting your mouth off, playing the big man and realizing you have been captured on camera doing it.

Yes Dylan, it is called back pedaling it is also called many other things but I’m sure you’re heard them already but simply ignored them.

Carry on Dylan, you must be well used to making mistakes by now. LC is one big mistake.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

So it's threats, not payoffs? I suppose that's a little better.:rolleyes:

If you can believe that a bunch of New York Firefighters can be bullied into silence over the deaths of thier brothers. :p

[The Pig]

Steven Merchant: It's a bigger man than many that can admit that.

Ricky Gervais: Or a man that's bang to rights, and obviously caught out and has no choice.

[JonnyFive]

Yeah, he made a mistake all right. He made the mistake of saying what he was thinking, even though it was royally retarded to do so.

They seem to make that mistake a lot.

[60hzxtl]

Do over! Do Over!!!

[JonnyFive]

Do over! Do Over!!!

Mulligan!

[T.A.M.]

Alex Jones to Gravy: Let me see your identification!!
Gravy: You don't need to see my identification.
AJ: I don't need to see your identification.
Gravy: These are the facts you're looking for.
AJ: Here are the facts I was looking for.
Gravy: You can go about your business being a douche.
AJ: I think I'm gonna get back to being a douche.
Gravy: Here's your megaphone.
AJ. Here's my megaphone. Here's my megaphone.

Thanks RB for making my day. My coca cola went up my nose again, but beyond that pain, this post was absolutely hillarious.

TAM

[realitybites]

Dylan is now claiming that the reason it took 3 months for Bermas to withdrawl his statement is because it was just brought to their attention....

..... :jaw-dropp

Something Bermas himself said three months ago just came to Bermas's attention today? Sounds more like "We just found out he said it ON TAPE and therefore can't deny it, so... here's what we really meant."

[JonnyFive]

Modern media is a really pain in the butt sometimes, isn't it?

At least if you don't want a record of the crazy things you say.

[JamesB]

Oh man, we don't deserve a link? I was hoping for the extra traffic, I need to sell t-shirts...

Apparently Dylan needs to keep his other buddy in check too. Rowe is saying unauthorized things:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=1258&st=60

QUOTE (A very sly denial @ Dec 1 2006, 06:11 PM)
So, could you please clarify whether errant information was purposely left in your documentary? I am not trying to cause trouble... I think that this is an extremely valid question, and I would assume that anyone seeking the truth (skeptic or otherwise) would want to know the answer to this.


No. Thanks for asking.

[Pardalis]

This is just one other pathetic example of how these troofers are unwilling to face the reality of their accusations, how they don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

They accuse some "entity" of being behind 9/11, but in reality, sooner or later, these accusations involve REAL people: thousands of innocent people, professionals at the NIST, the FAA, NORAD, controlled demolition companies and yes... the NYFD.

Are they really just asking questions? No. They implicitly accuse people of mass murder.

Troofers, do you really want the answers to your questions? Do you really want to know WHO/WHAT/WHERE/WHEN/HOW, or do you just like to accuse people without any proof?

This is real life.

Cretins. :mad:

[chran]

"Oceania has never been at war with Eurasia"

:D

[Scientologist]

so instead of being paid off, bermas thinks firefighters were "threatened" into maintaining the big lie. gotchya. no apology here.

[Bell]

Dylan is now claiming that the reason it took 3 months for Bermas to withdrawl his statement is because it was just brought to their attention....

..... :jaw-dropp

Something Bermas himself said three months ago just came to Bermas's attention today? Sounds more like "We just found out he said it ON TAPE and therefore can't deny it, so... here's what we really meant."

I guess Dumbass just has a slow working ehm... mind (for lack of a better word).

Jason Dumbass "Yes please."
Do Over Dylan "Yes what?"
Jason Dumbass "Yes, I like a cup of coffee."
Do Over Dylan "??"
Jason Dumbass "You asked me if I like a cup of coffee?"
Do Over Dylan "That was three months ago."

[~enigma~]

Abby Scott = Yoda? Personally I think she is a lot cuter than yoda but maybe Jason thinks otherwise. I do find it a bit odd that Abby is accused of using a jedi mind trick when it is their own scholars (whackos is a better term) that claim to have a death star. Wonder if that means Fetzer is Darth Vader?

[R.Mackey]

I still think this is a prelude to the Loosers chickening out (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2137787#post2137787) of their debate with Gravy. The face-saving 180 goes something like this:

"Look, they took something we said out of context, and make a big stink about it. But since we're such nice guys, once we found out about it, we apologized for it anyway. Those evil JREFers, though, not only they wouldn't accept our apology, but they're still stretching our words! So debate them? Never!"

Yes, dear. Except it's you who are on tape making the claim.

As I said above, I think this apology is a step in the right direction. Let's be very clear on this. It is, however, only the beginning of a long reckoning:


Do you believe the firefighters are participating at all in the coverup?
If yes, how do you know this to be true? And do you realize that, even if they were threatened, you are still accusing them of the coverup?
If no, how do you explain the fact that they knew hours ahead of time that WTC 7 was going to fall?

I think it's in our best interest to accept this apology, find out what it really means, and go from there. Let's make absolutely sure that they believe in this apology and never let them forget it. Because not only is the apology the right thing to do, but whether they realize it yet or not, this apology ultimately will lead them to reject their entire hypothesis.

[stateofgrace]

Dylan is now claiming that the reason it took 3 months for Bermas to withdrawl his statement is because it was just brought to their attention....

..... :jaw-dropp

Something Bermas himself said three months ago just came to Bermas's attention today? Sounds more like "We just found out he said it ON TAPE and therefore can't deny it, so... here's what we really meant."

Oh well that explains it all then. It simply slipped their minds and they forgot all about it. Yep I can relate to that one totally.

[chipmunk stew]

Dylan is now claiming that the reason it took 3 months for Bermas to withdrawl his statement is because it was just brought to their attention....

..... :jaw-dropp

Something Bermas himself said three months ago just came to Bermas's attention today? Sounds more like "We just found out he said it ON TAPE and therefore can't deny it, so... here's what we really meant."
Gravy distributed his WTC7 paper, what, 2 months ago?

Which means they still haven't read it.* I hope they don't think they're going to get much mileage out of WTC7 in their new video...

*edit: or maybe they just read it today, in preparation for the debate?

[realitybites]

Gravy distributed his WTC7 paper, what, 2 months ago?

Which means they still haven't read it. I hope they don't think they're going to get much mileage out of WTC7 in their new video...
Or during the debate for that matter.

[chipmunk stew]

I still think this is a prelude to the Loosers chickening out (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2137787#post2137787) of their debate with Gravy. The face-saving 180 goes something like this:

"Look, they took something we said out of context, and make a big stink about it. But since we're such nice guys, once we found out about it, we apologized for it anyway. Those evil JREFers, though, not only they wouldn't accept our apology, but they're still stretching our words! So debate them? Never!"

Yes, dear. Except it's you who are on tape making the claim.

As I said above, I think this apology is a step in the right direction. Let's be very clear on this. It is, however, only the beginning of a long reckoning:

Do you believe the firefighters are participating at all in the coverup?
If yes, how do you know this to be true? And do you realize that, even if they were threatened, you are still accusing them of the coverup?
If no, how do you explain the fact that they knew hours ahead of time that WTC 7 was going to fall?I think it's in our best interest to accept this apology, find out what it really means, and go from there. Let's make absolutely sure that they believe in this apology and never let them forget it. Because not only is the apology the right thing to do, but whether they realize it yet or not, this apology ultimately will lead them to reject their entire hypothesis.
You know, you're right, Mackey. They probably do not actually believe that any firefighters were "in on it", and in that sense, the apology is probably sincere. I think they just haven't thought through the implications of some of their speculating, though. If forced to think it through, they'll have to either abandon the speculation or decide that there really were firefighters involved. Either way, we should find out where they stand.

[Pardalis]

I think they just haven't thought through the implications of some of their speculating, though.

Exactly, and they wonder why we get mad at them.

Actually, they haven't thought anything through...

[JamesB]

If the FDNY was not involved, does that mean they are going to drop the whole "After talking to Silverstein the FDNY pulled WTC 7" argument?

[Kent1]

If the FDNY was not involved, does that mean they are going to drop the whole "After talking to Silverstein the FDNY pulled WTC 7" argument?

So they were threatened to demolish the towers? Or is there some sort of complex sinister firefighter/mole threaten system at work

"I remember getting a call from the fire department commander, telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain the fire, and I said, 'We've had such terrible loss of life, maybe the smartest thing to do is pull it.' And they made that decision to pull and then we watched the building collapse."

[beachnut]

dylan avery (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showuser=2)

good riddance, JAStewart. glad I got to do this myself.

if bermas says something wrong, he's an *******. if bermas apologizes, he's an *******.

if mark roberts walks around CALLING people ********, he's ok.

gotcha. JREF thought-process in action.
Who is Dylan Avery? Just a dropout film maker who lucked out with a fictional film and people bought it as their bible on CT 9/11 truth?

Now he is trying to do it better, make another movie about CT to make it big. So why will he fail? Or will he be in the money?

Because his first effort was true to form, a true farce? It took off and was accepted as the bible on truth.

His current effort is chasing his tail to make it happen again. But he will fail due to being a true fraud this time.

Summation: LC1 was fiction adopted as truth! Made money! He goes along playing Capt Kirk, and now he must do better. LCFC total fraud, this time trying to make the magic of the first farce happen again and become his money source.

Conclusion: LC will be sued as soon as the pot is big enough. As soon as a smart lawyer matches up to the plaintiffs waiting in the wings to clean up the loose change of LC.

Bye Dylan; if you believe what you publish is truth, then you are very much the dolt of LC. If you do not believe the tripe you pedal you are a big fraud.

Which is Dylan? A dolt or a fraud? (this idiot (based on watchig his movie) banned you?)

[pomeroo]

I'm frequently warned that the Loose Change boys will duck out on Mark and me and my own thinking runs along similar lines. Would a few of the resident authorities on fantasist behavior care to compute some odds?

I'll get us started with a purely subjective estimate: 7-5 in favor of their showing up.

How about odds of them surviving Mark's criticism for a full hour?

[Alt+F4]

Are they really just asking questions? No. They implicitly accuse people of mass murder.

And that my friend is why LC:FC will never get a theatrical release.

[JAStewart]

I was telling Gravy that he should tell whichever production company thats releasing this crap that its all BS and prove it with his awesome debunking skills, with any luck the docu will NEVER get a movie deal! Victory for us Government agents!

[chipmunk stew]

Who is Dylan Avery? Just a dropout film maker who lucked out with a fictional film and people bought it as their bible on CT 9/11 truth?

Now he is trying to do it better, make another movie about CT to make it big. So why will he fail? Or will he be in the money?

Because his first effort was true to form, a true farce? It took off and was accepted as the bible on truth.

His current effort is chasing his tail to make it happen again. But he will fail due to being a true fraud this time.

Summation: LC1 was fiction adopted as truth! Made money! He goes along playing Capt Kirk, and now he must do better. LCFC total fraud, this time trying to make the magic of the first farce happen again and become his money source.

Conclusion: LC will be sued as soon as the pot is big enough. As soon as a smart lawyer matches up to the plaintiffs waiting in the wings to clean up the loose change of LC.

Bye Dylan; if you believe what you publish is truth, then you are very much the dolt of LC. If you do not believe the tripe you pedal you are a big fraud.

Which is Dylan? A dolt or a fraud? (this idiot (based on watchig his movie) banned you?)
Is this kind of like Lord, Liar, or Lunatic?

[Brainster]

I was telling Gravy that he should tell whichever production company thats releasing this crap that its all BS and prove it with his awesome debunking skills, with any luck the docu will NEVER get a movie deal! Victory for us Government agents!

Remember that Hollywood doesn't care about whether the story is true or not; it's whether it will sell tickets or help them somewhere else. It appears quite possible to me that Loose Change will be picked up by a studio as a "favor" to Charlie Sheen, and then maybe Sheen will make a guest spot or cameo on some other TV show or movie.

[Regnad Kcin]

dylan avery

good riddance, JAStewart. glad I got to do this myself.

if bermas says something wrong, he's an *******. if bermas apologizes, he's an *******.

if mark roberts walks around CALLING people ********, he's ok.

gotcha. JREF thought-process in action.There's so much wrong with the above it's a wonder to behold.

Will the boy ever grow up?

[Scientologist]

I'm frequently warned that the Loose Change boys will duck out on Mark and me and my own thinking runs along similar lines. Would a few of the resident authorities on fantasist behavior care to compute some odds?

I'll get us started with a purely subjective estimate: 7-5 in favor of their showing up.

How about odds of them surviving Mark's criticism for a full hour?


Please don't take offense to this but I don't think you should take part in the 9/11 debate. I saw your show with Les Jamison and was less than impressed with your arguments.

I appreciate the amount of respect you offer conspiracy theorists but you should have taken that opportunity to mop the floor with that retard.

He was one of the tools I thoroughly dismantled at Union Square. You need to learn to call a liar a liar. He made up a few things in that interview with you and you didn't call him on any of it. You seemed more able to quote Gravy's paper which is fine and dandy but my opinion is you should get someone as qualified as Gravy on the matter to be on "our side" and just be a fair moderator.

[Lyte Trip]

If the FDNY was not involved, does that mean they are going to drop the whole "After talking to Silverstein the FDNY pulled WTC 7" argument?

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

[Scientologist]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".


Sigh...

[Bell]

There's so much wrong with the above it's a wonder to behold.

Will the boy ever grow up?

Exactly my thought.
You better Do Over, Dylan :rolleyes:

[Bell]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

This 'pull it' claim has been debunked to death, troll.

[Alt+F4]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

So why did this occur?

1. Federal agents couldn't get a paper shredder at Staples to destroy all those "secret documents"?

OR

2. Larry Silverstein secretly controls the federal government?

[beachnut]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

I would have to think all the high level federal operatives fled for their lives and were all home with their kids and were ordered out of their buildings by the NYFD. When a fire is happening they are the guys in charge you fool! The FD is in charge.

So come up with evidence or go back to your paid dinners with LC for helping promote fraud on you fellow citizens.

[stateofgrace]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

Is that so?

Is this part of your explosive new evidence or just debunked garbage you like to regurgitate for the sake of it.

I have to congratulate you though, you managed to stay alive and the nasty MIB didn’t bump you off. I bet they are still watching you and tapping your phone calls though.Whaoooooooooo :boxedin:

[Lyte Trip]

This 'pull it' claim has been debunked to death, troll.

According to you.

It was a classic case of CYA.

[Bell]

According to you.

It was a classic case of CYA.

According to you :rolleyes:

[beachnut]

According to you.

It was a classic case of CYA.

Everyone with abilities to reason and use judgment to make rational decisions knows IT!

What does that say for you after all these years?

Too many free dinners will do that.

[Lyte Trip]

Is that so?

Is this part of your explosive new evidence or just debunked garbage you like to regurgitate for the sake of it.

I have to congratulate you though, you managed to stay alive and the nasty MIB didn’t bump you off. I bet they are still watching you and tapping your phone calls though.Whaoooooooooo :boxedin:

Most likely they, like you, have no idea what is going to hit them.

But those posts were made as a mere precaution when the evidence was first obtained.

The plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

[Bell]

Most likely they, like you, have no idea what is going to hit them.

But those posts were made as a mere precaution when the evidence was first obtained.

The plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

Did AA77 hit the Pentagon?
If not, where are the passengers, crew and plane?

[Pardalis]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

:dl:

That pot must be potent in California...

[Alt+F4]

The plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

Hi, I'm waiting to see this evidence. By New Year's, right?

[Pardalis]

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

Why don't you just come back when you got something? Alright?

[Bell]

Bye now!

[Lyte Trip]

Did AA77 hit the Pentagon?
If not, where are the passengers, crew and plane?

The evidence we will present will prove that the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

If you can demonstrate that it could still have knocked down the light poles and caused damage to the pentagon like this:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/ASCEdamagepath.jpg

Then you don't have to join me in demanding an answer to your question from the USG.

Otherwise I've got a spare tinfoil hat waiting for you.

[Big Les]

This 'pull it' claim has been debunked to death, troll.

Yes; see Gravy's WTC7 document. (http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf) Just a couple of points bear repeating;

1. The term "pull" is never used by firefighters to refer to demolition, and it's only used by demolitions experts to refer to physically pulling a building down with wires.

2. Silverstein stood to (and in fact did) lose a lot of money from the total loss of the building, not profit from it, thanks to a clause that required him to rebuild after any such loss.

3. It was the Fire Dept Commander who made the decision, not Silverstein. The authority here, and therfore the lion's share of any complicity here would with the FDNY, yet Silverstein cops it from the CT brigade because of his awkward use of language and the CTs assumptions about its significance.

As Bell said; totally debunked.

[beachnut]

Most likely they, like you, have no idea what is going to hit them.

But those posts were made as a mere precaution when the evidence was first obtained.

The plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

Sure! you have zip! Sure, like you have something?

So how did the light post get knocked down and why did the plane make a line of damage that lines up with the real witnesses of flight 77, and the real path of flight 77

How do you make this leap with your new stuff?

Way too many free dinners or too many dobbies? which is it

prove it now

[Lyte Trip]

Hi, I'm waiting to see this evidence. By New Year's, right?

Yes.

We are on track for that.

[Bell]

The evidence we will present will prove that the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

If you can demonstrate that it could still have knocked down the light poles and caused damage to the pentagon like this:

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/ASCEdamagepath.jpg

Then you don't have to join me in demanding an answer to your question from the USG.

Otherwise I've got a spare tinfoil hat waiting for you.

Evading questions?

Again:

Did AA77 hit the Pentagon? Yes or no?
If not, where are the passengers, crew and plane?

[Pardalis]

The evidence we will present will prove that the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

If you can demonstrate that it could still have knocked down the light poles and caused damage to the pentagon like this:

You are seriously trying to say that the plane hit the building from the North of Citgo but caused damage as if it came from the South, right? Is that your contention?

[Lyte Trip]

Yes; see Gravy's WTC7 document. (http://www.911myths.com/WTC7_Lies.pdf) Just a couple of points bear repeating;

1. The term "pull" is never used by firefighters to refer to demolition, and it's only used by demolitions experts to refer to physically pulling a building down with wires.

2. Silverstein stood to (and in fact did) lose a lot of money from the total loss of the building, not profit from it, thanks to a clause that required him to rebuild after any such loss.

3. It was the Fire Dept Commander who made the decision, not Silverstein. The authority here, and therfore the lion's share of any complicity here would with the FDNY, yet Silverstein cops it from the CT brigade because of his awkward use of language and the CTs assumptions about its significance.

As Bell said; totally debunked.

1. I never claimed the fire department said anything.

2. The building is brand new. He will not lose anything.

3. I don't agree. It was a national disaster of unmatched proportions. To suggest they took no direction from the feds is a stretch.

[Lyte Trip]

You are seriously trying to say that the plane hit the building from the North of Citgo but caused damage as if it came from the South, right? Is that your contention?

No.

[beachnut]

The evidence we will present will prove that the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

If you can demonstrate that it could still have knocked down the light poles and caused damage to the pentagon like this:

Then you don't have to join me in demanding an answer to your question from the USG.

Otherwise I've got a spare tinfoil hat waiting for you.

We at the CDC believe you ate you tin-foil hat; but it was made of aluminum. You have been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease in its nuttier bar stage! You need to come immediately to Atlanta for the cure.

Yes Virginia there is a cure for terminal stupidity!

What are you really trying to say? (LCFC is total junk?)

What plane are you talking about? Please explain.

[stateofgrace]

Most likely they, like you, have no idea what is going to hit them.

But those posts were made as a mere precaution when the evidence was first obtained.

The plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

This we can prove and this will be something that NOBODY can debunk.

Yep I’m sure your youtube video will bring the mightiest democratically elected Government on the planet to its knees.

Nobody will need to debunk it because civilization as we know it come crumbling down and standing tall in the rubble will be Lyte Trip. The savoir of humanity and the one guy who survived attempt after attempt on his life to get his youtube video and DVD out on time from Xmas.

As if.

[Pardalis]

You are seriously trying to say that the plane hit the building from the North of Citgo but caused damage as if it came from the South, right? Is that your contention?

No.

So it came from the North and caused damage accordingly, or did it come from the South, and caused damage accordingly?

Which one?

[Lyte Trip]

Evading questions?

Again:

Did AA77 hit the Pentagon? Yes or no?
If not, where are the passengers, crew and plane?

Are all of you pseudoskeptics this slow?

1. No

2. I never claimed to know the answer to this nor is it my responsibility to explain. We can prove the plane didn't hit the building. The rest of the explaining will be the job of the USG.

[Lyte Trip]

So it came from the North and caused damage accordingly, or did it come from the South, and caused damage accordingly?

Which one?

I guess you are all this slow.

It flew on the north side of the citgo therefore the damage had to be caused by something else.

Unless you can show how the same damage could be created from a plane on the north side of the citgo.

[Pardalis]

It flew on the north side of the citgo therefore the damage had to be caused by something else.

Did this plane from the North hit the pentagon?

[Alt+F4]

It flew on the north side of the citgo therefore the damage had to be caused by something else.

Is the damage you refer to the damage to the lightposts?

[Garb]

I guess you are all this slow.

It flew on the north side of the citgo therefore the damage had to be caused by something else.

Unless you can show how the same damage could be created from a plane on the north side of the citgo.

Well where did the plane go if it flew on the North side?

It had to have hit something or else there would be testimony from the other side of the pentagon seeing it fly over.

[beachnut]

Yes.

We are on track for that.

You do know you guys have been set up for law suit. Do not sign any papers Lyte.

If you have signed up as a LC operative you will be sued with them.

Do you understand fraud? When people fake stuff and you publish it you are in trouble.

So you guys have been set up by the NSA and you will soon be running and hiding. Do you have enough money to hide from the NSA?

You guys are too easy! Good luck.

Now bring it on. Show us your stuff.

[Bell]

Are all of you pseudoskeptics this slow?

1. No

2. I never claimed to know the answer to this nor is it my responsibility to explain. We can prove the plane didn't hit the building. The rest of the explaining will be the job of the USG.

So it passed the Citgo station and? Pulled up and flew over the Pentagon?

Also, the 9/11 Commission has explained allready what happened to AA77... (SHILL!!)

Are you really that slow?

[Lyte Trip]

Is the damage you refer to the damage to the lightposts?

Yes.

And all of the physical damage including the trailer and the pentagon itself.

There is zero room for error in the official flight path.

[Scientologist]

Let's see this evidence that the airplane didn't hit the building or stfu thanks.

[Bell]

Yes.

And all of the physical damage including the trailer and the pentagon itself.

There is zero room for error in the official flight path.

So again I ask, how much room for error is there in your wittness acounts?

[Garb]

Yes.

And all of the physical damage including the trailer and the pentagon itself.

There is zero room for error in the official flight path.

Then if the physical damage reflects that of a 757 (which it does) then it couldn't have been something else.

[Pardalis]

Are you really that slow?

I think he's stalled.

[Lyte Trip]

Did this plane from the North hit the pentagon?

Since there is no physical damage that would indicate so....this would not be a logical conclusion.

[Pardalis]

Since there is no physical damage that would indicate so....this would not be a logical conclusion.

Then the plane came from the South of the Citgo. Thanks.

[Bell]

I think he's stalled.

Remember what happened when dust got into the groves of a record?

"We can proof it..."
*crack crack*
"We can proof it..."
*crack crack*
"We can proof it..."
*crack crack*
"We can proof it..."
*crack crack*

[pomeroo]

I agree with anyone who thinks that I was gentle, perhaps excessively so, with Les Jamieson. I don't feel, however, that a host should launch ad hominem attacks on his guests. If the boys actually show up, it is certain that they will make many untrue statements. Mark is superbly qualified to expose them and I won't hesitate to chime in. I will not sacrifice what I laughingly call my own dignity by slinging insults. The other side will, I assume, more than compensate for my decorum. Unless, of course, I happen to go berserk and start throwing chairs.

[TheGrunion]

Are all of you pseudoskeptics this slow?

1. No

2. I never claimed to know the answer to this nor is it my responsibility to explain. We can prove the plane didn't hit the building. The rest of the explaining will be the job of the USG.

Not so fast slick. You've already gone on record that what you are working on WILL account for the damage to the light poles.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2117360&postcount=1092

You must be having a rough time of it if you're moving the goal posts before kickoff!

[Bell]

Since there is no physical damage that would indicate so....this would not be a logical conclusion.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/911/images/01749r.jpg

[Lyte Trip]

So again I ask, how much room for error is there in your wittness acounts?

Zero.

Due to their perfect vantage point, the credibility level of the witnesses themselves, and the multiple levels of corroboration that we have obtained.

Nobody will question it for even a second.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it.

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.

[Garb]

Zero.

Due to their perfect vantage point, the credibility level of the witnesses themselves, and the multiple levels of corroboration that we have obtained.

Nobody will question it for even a second.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it.

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.

How bout you give us your evidence then we will work on an explanation.

[Alt+F4]

Nobody will question it for even a second.

So what did cause the damage to the lightposts?

[Pardalis]

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.

Easy, it came from the South.

[Scientologist]

I agree with anyone who thinks that I was gentle, perhaps excessively so, with Les Jamieson. I don't feel, however, that a host should launch ad hominem attacks on his guests. If the boys actually show up, it is certain that they will make many untrue statements. Mark is superbly qualified to expose them and I won't hesitate to chime in. I will not sacrifice what I laughingly call my own dignity by slinging insults. The other side will, I assume, more than compensate for my decorum. Unless, of course, I happen to go berserk and start throwing chairs.

I didn't suggest you insult him. I suggested that everytime he lies, you call him on it.

You're a cool guy all together. Again, I'm not trying to offend you.

[Bell]

Zero.

Due to their perfect vantage point, the credibility level of the witnesses themselves, and the multiple levels of corroboration that we have obtained.

Nobody will question it for even a second.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it.

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.

Freaking courtesy. You ask us to debunk something for which you fail time and again to show any evidence. You're a troll and hope we will bite. Try some real bait next time.

[The_Fire]

Zero.

Due to their perfect vantage point, the credibility level of the witnesses themselves, and the multiple levels of corroboration that we have obtained.

Nobody will question it for even a second.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it.

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.


Put your money where your mouth is or shut up.

Got evidence? Take it to court. If you don't trust the american courts, try the Haag.

But I forget: The NWO runs everything. So why are you still breathing?

[Scientologist]

Zero.

Due to their perfect vantage point, the credibility level of the witnesses themselves, and the multiple levels of corroboration that we have obtained.

Nobody will question it for even a second.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it.

That's why as a courtesy we suggested you start working on an explanation as to how the damage could have been caused from a plane on the north side of the station.



Bring the evidence. Bring it. Don't talk about it, don't pump it up. Just bring it.

[beachnut]

Since there is no physical damage that would indicate so....this would not be a logical conclusion.

So the physical evidence left at 700 feet per second at the pentagon on 9/11 when the DNA from the souls on board flight 77 were found in the Pentagon was all planted?

You are not even close on this one.

There is no physical evidence to support you. If you have lost you mind please seek help. (do not confuse physical with words out of mouths)

[Scientologist]

I have my suspicions as to who Lyte is. He sounds very cocky and misinformed. Who else could that be besides Dylan Avery or Jason Bermas himself.

[beachnut]

2324 Columbia Pike
Arlington, VA 22204
(703) 920-1109

I thougth this was the Citgo Station they were talking about. What if their witnesses are from this station???

Help

[Lyte Trip]

Not so fast slick. You've already gone on record that what you are working on WILL account for the damage to the light poles.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2117360&postcount=1092

You must be having a rough time of it if you're moving the goal posts before kickoff!

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.

[Bell]

If you don't trust the american courts, try the Haag.

We don't need his kind in our country. Got enough nutters around here as it is!

[Bell]

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.

Yep, the keebler elves used hacksaws to bring them down.

[Garb]

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.

Why present a hypothesis when we already have a conclusion on why the poles came down?

[Alt+F4]

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.

Fair enough, what about the Flight 77 DNA that was identified at the Pentagon? Everyone I think, except for a toddler.

[Big Les]

1. I never claimed the fire department said anything.

No... but Silverstein was talking to the Fire Dept Commander. He reports the words "pull it" being used, and is clearly referring to the firefighting operation, not the demolition of the building.

2. The building is brand new. He will not lose anything.

Again, Gravy says it best:
What about an insurance motive? Professional conspiracist and radio host Alex "New World Order” Jones claims that Silverstein walked away with a profit of $500 million after building 7’s insurer, Industrial Risk Insurers, paid its $861 million policy!

This shouldn’t need to be said, but the fact that IRI didn’t dispute the $861 million claim should make it perfectly clear that Silverstein didn’t “admit” to destroying his building.

And lest you think that IRI’s management somehow benefited by turning a blind eye to Silverstein’s “crime,” consider that IRI did contest Silverstein’s lawsuit over his Twin Towers insurance claim.

No. Insurance companies have a funny way of making sure that insured parties don’t destroy their skyscrapers, collect the claims, and drive into the sunset with a truckload of cash. A clause in Silverstein’s WTC 7 policy required him to begin rebuilding within two years, and lenders required that the new building have as much square footage as the old (and they complained mightily when the plans came up short in that department). The cost of the new building? Over $700 million.

Hey, that still leaves Silverstein with a tidy profit of around $161 million, right?
No. There was the small matter of the existing $489.4 million mortgage, which Silverstein paid off with the insurance settlement, leaving him with a shortfall of $328 million heading towards construction of the new building.

The City of New York, desperate to see rebuilding begin downtown, saved Silverstein a bundle in financing costs by offering over $400 million in tax-exempt Liberty Bonds, which the Bank of New York guaranteed.

That move gave Silverstein and his backers the freedom to do something unheard of in recent New York real estate history: start construction of a skyscraper without a major (or minor) tenant on board. And when the building opened in 2006? Still no major tenants. In May, WTC 7 finally got its first possible major tenant when Moody’s Investor’s Service signed a nonbinding letter of intent to occupy 15 floors. More recently, other sizable tenants have signed on.

Sources: “Even as Construction Begins, a New Trade Center Tower Faces Obstacles” New York Times, January 16, 2003. “7 World Trade Center Gets a Major Tenant” Official World Trade Center Site The Building Everyone Will Date But No One Will Marry

3. I don't agree. It was a national disaster of unmatched proportions. To suggest they took no direction from the feds is a stretch.

No. To suggest that the FBI had direct control over the fate of individual buildings is a stretch. This has all been dealt with, repeatedly, because you people keep popping up like fairground moles. I can only assume you're hoping other posters will tire of refuting your nonsense and leave you free to spam this board with drivel.

Not going to happen.

[Pardalis]

Yep, the keebler elves used hacksaws to bring them down.

I'm sure their "hypothesis" will go something like this:

"The lightpoles are hollow... therefore they were rigged with alka seltzer and soda!"

:boggled:

[TheGrunion]

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.

Fair enough.

I assure you it will take me much less time to debunk your "light pole staging hypothesis" than it will take for you guys to dream it up.

[NobbyNobbs]

Why did it take him three months to come clean, if he really believes this?


Easy. It wasn't until now that he was committed to a debate.

[Lyte Trip]

Bring the evidence. Bring it. Don't talk about it, don't pump it up. Just bring it.

You guys asked.

My post was about building 7 and Larry Silverstein.

[Lyte Trip]

Fair enough.

I assure you it will take me much less time to debunk your "light pole staging hypothesis" than it will take for you guys to dream it up.

Cool.

Then maybe you can come up with your own.

You're going to have to because there is NO WAY you or anybody can debunk our north of the citgo evidence.

[Garb]

Cool.

Then maybe you can come up with your own.

You're going to have to because there is NO WAY you or anybody can debunk our north of the citgo evidence.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch...

[Alt+F4]

My post was about building 7 and Larry Silverstein.

Ok, so why did the federal government want to destroy WTC7?

[Pardalis]

Lyte trip, this better be good or you're in for one of the worst public humiliations the earth has ever seen.

[Bell]

You guys asked.

My post was about building 7 and Larry Silverstein.

Which has been dealt with and debunked a dozen times before. Use the search function on this forum (instead of investigoogling).

You might learn something :boxedin:

[Lyte Trip]

I have my suspicions as to who Lyte is. He sounds very cocky and misinformed. Who else could that be besides Dylan Avery or Jason Bermas himself.

Incorrect.

And Skeptic4Sure is not JDX.

This evidence and presentation will be totally independent of LC and PFT.

[Big Les]

I detect the somewhat premature shooting of clue glue.

[Pardalis]

This evidence and presentation will be totally independent of LC and PFT.

Just what I thought, they just want to top each other...

"See I can piss farther than you!"

Why don't you bring this evidence to the proper authorities Lyte?

[Bell]

Lyte trip, this better be good or you're in for one of the worst public humiliations the earth has ever seen.

If the NWO hasn't got rid of him by then.
FEMA death camp is no vacation!

[sleahead]

You guys must have missed the last thread annoucing the new, sooper duper evidence. This is Mr Trip:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=55498992

[The_Fire]

You guys asked.

My post was about building 7 and Larry Silverstein.

Where's the evidence?

[Lyte Trip]

Just what I thought, they just want to top each other...

"See I can piss farther than you!"

Why don't you bring this evidence to the proper authorities Lyte?

Wrong.

We simply obtained the evidence and are working to release it as soon as possible. I am sure that the LC and PFT crews will back it 100%.

Not sure who the "proper authorities" are on this matter but we most certainly will be bringing to anyone and everyone possible and documenting all official responses.

[TheGrunion]

Cool.

Then maybe you can come up with your own.

You're going to have to because there is NO WAY you or anybody can debunk our north of the citgo evidence.

You may be correct, as I am beginning to suspect that there is no north of the Citgo evidence to debunk.

Its going to be the same half baked garbage that Russell had a field day with during the last dying days of the old LC forum.

The only difference is that this time is you guys are going to try to make a few bucks off of it.

[Bell]

You guys must have missed the last thread annoucing the new, sooper duper evidence. This is Mr Trip:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=5649977

Actually, I guess this is him :)

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=1486476

Don't they ever learn that bg music is bloody anoying?

ETA: So are the bg pictures...

ETA ETA: http://www.myspace.com/lytetrip911

[The_Fire]

Wrong.

We simply obtained the evidence and are working to release it as soon as possible. I am sure that the LC and PFT crews will back it 100%.

Not sure who the "proper authorities" are on this matter but we most certainly will be bringing to anyone and everyone possible and documenting all official responses.

The proper authorities would be any court of law since you are talking about the murder of a lot of people.

Where's the evidence?

[stateofgrace]

Did I just miss something here?

Lyle you said you had evidence that nobody would question but it has been because you have no idea what happened to the lampposts.

You cannot put forward a thesis that excluded all the know facts.

Now tell me where did the aircraft approach from, how did the lampposts get damaged and then where did it go.

Then tell how all the DNA from the passengers all the plane parts and both black boxes ended up inside the Pentagon.

Ok so on you go.............

[Big Les]

Not sure who the "proper authorities" are on this matter but we most certainly will be bringing to anyone and everyone possible and documenting all official responses.

As has already been suggested, some sort of court. Or even a respected media outlet. Somebody who could actually action on your "evidence". Otherwise, what's the point?

Have you never wondered why the BBC or even Al Ja-bloody-zeera won't run with your crew's so-called evidence? It's because they would make themselves a laughing stock.

[Pardalis]

Should we contact the authorities ourselves Lyte, so that they can contact you?

ETA: maybe a subpoena?

[Bell]

Should we contact the authorities ourselves Lyte, so that they can contact you?

Why? All he has to do is pick up his phone. Instant connection to the authorities.

[Scientologist]

You're going to have to because there is NO WAY you or anybody can debunk our north of the citgo evidence.

You're right its pretty IMPOSSIBLE to debunk non-evidence that you don't have the balls to present.

Its fairly indicative of your gullibility that you already believe you have bulletproof evidence yet this evidence is not even ready to show us here today.

[The_Fire]

Should we contact the authorities ourselves Lyte, so that they can contact you?

I would think either the Feds, Homeland Security or the everyday police would be VERY interested......

[Burrell]

Lyte, as part of the image you posted as evidence to counter the general held view that a Plane hit the Pentagon from the south, you cite 'Serious' and 'Severe' in the key. Can you please define these values for us?

Is this based on a level of damage recorded from an 'official source'?
If not is it based on an inspection by a third party?
Is it based on interpritation by one or more people?
When was the evidence collected, regardless of the belief or point of view of the person that collated it?
What criteria was used to mark the change from 'serious' to 'severe'?
What do you mean by the term 'Serious'?
What do you mean by the term 'Severe'?

This will not undermine any evidence you or others wish to provide 'on air' at any time in the future. It will simply clarify the image you have provided for us.

[Lyte Trip]

Did I just miss something here?

Lyle you said you had evidence that nobody would question but it has been because you have no idea what happened to the lampposts.

You cannot put forward a thesis that excluded all the know facts.

Now tell me where did the aircraft approach from, how did the lampposts get damaged and then where did it go.

Then tell how all the DNA from the passengers all the plane parts and both black boxes ended up inside the Pentagon.

Ok so on you go.............

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

[The_Fire]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

WHERE.IS.THE.EVIDENCE?

ETA: if you make accusations, the burden of proof is on you.

[Bell]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

Present. Your. Evidence.

ETA: The Fire beat me to it.

[Pardalis]

I would think either the Feds, Homeland Security or the everyday police would be VERY interested......

The authorities would order them to submit their evidence... right now, instead of us having to wait weeks for an annoying piece of viedo on youtube...

So shall we do that Lyte, contact the authorities ourselves?

[Scientologist]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.


Let's see the proof. Cmon, stallion. Lets see it. Stop talking about what you can prove and prove it.

[Pardalis]

You are withholding evidence Lyte...

[Bell]

The authorities would order them to submit their evidence... right now, instead of us having to wait weeks for an annoying piece of viedo on youtube...

So shall we do that Lyte, contact the authorities ourselves?

https://tips.fbi.gov/

[Lyte Trip]

Lyte, as part of the image you posted as evidence to counter the general held view that a Plane hit the Pentagon from the south, you cite 'Serious' and 'Severe' in the key. Can you please define these values for us?

Is this based on a level of damage recorded from an 'official source'?
If not is it based on an inspection by a third party?
Is it based on interpritation by one or more people?
When was the evidence collected, regardless of the belief or point of view of the person that collated it?
What criteria was used to mark the change from 'serious' to 'severe'?
What do you mean by the term 'Serious'?
What do you mean by the term 'Severe'?

This will not undermine any evidence you or others wish to provide 'on air' at any time in the future. It will simply clarify the image you have provided for us.

That image comes directly from the ASCE report.

I reccomend you read it in preparation for what we will present.

www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf (http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf)

If the damage to the pentagon was caused by a plane it could ONLY have been caused by a plane approaching from the south west.

We will definitively show this is not what happened.

[The_Fire]

The authorities would order them to submit their evidence... right now, instead of us having to wait weeks for an annoying piece of viedo on youtube...

So shall we do that Lyte, contact the authorities ourselves?

Speaking of which: Does having evidence of a crime and not submitting them right away not constitute aiding and abetting? And if so, should people whom are aware of such a withhold not report that to the police? If that's so, it would be our duty to make sure that lyte is reported to aid justice.......

[Lyte Trip]

You are withholding evidence Lyte...

From you yes.

Temporarily.

[Alt+F4]

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

The DNA of the passengers found in the Pentagon is hard science. You seem to only have some new witnesses. Which do you think most reasonable people will believe?

[The_Fire]

That image comes directly from the ASCE report.

I reccomend you read it in preparation for what we will present.

www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf (http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf)

If the damage to the pentagon was caused by a plane it could ONLY have been caused by a plane approaching from the south west.

We will definitively show this is not what happened.

Where's your evidence? Why have you not submitted said evidence to the proper authoritative organisation? Are you aware that you are possibly commiting a crime by withholding said evidence?

[TheGrunion]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

By all means, make up all the Bizarro World Rules you wish.

Just don't expect your "evidence" to convince anyone outside the rapidly dwindling pool of twoofers, unless you adhere to the same standards of evidence and accountability that the rest of the world abides by.

Then again, why do any real work if the true objective is to peddle a few DVD's.

[Pardalis]

From you yes.

Temporarily.

From the world.

Evidence of a criminal investigation about a mass murder.

And you're withholding it.

[The_Fire]

From you yes.

Temporarily.

No. You are withholding evidence crucial to a criminal investigation. That is, afaik, a crime.

[Scientologist]

That image comes directly from the ASCE report.

I reccomend you read it in preparation for what we will present.

www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf (http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf)

If the damage to the pentagon was caused by a plane it could ONLY have been caused by a plane approaching from the south west.

We will definitively show this is not what happened.


E V I D E N C E

F A C T S

P R O O F


rhetoric

[Big Les]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

That we here could not hypothetically debunk what you refuse to even tell us about, would not mean that it was an accurate representation of the truth, nor that 9/11 was an inside job. Even if you were able to conclusively prove the official story to be wrong, it still would not follow that 9/11 was an inside job.

Are you familiar with the term "false dichotomy"?

[Lyte Trip]

The DNA of the passengers found in the Pentagon is hard science. You seem to only have some new witnesses. Which do you think most reasonable people will believe?

Unverifiable evidence.

I am certain that people will believe what we present more.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it unless you come up with some ludicrous conspiracy theory.

[Lyte Trip]

That we here could not hypothetically debunk what you refuse to even tell us about, would not mean that it was an accurate representation of the truth, nor that 9/11 was an inside job. Even if you were able to conclusively prove the official story to be wrong, it still would not follow that 9/11 was an inside job.

Are you familiar with the term "false dichotomy"?

Explain how the plane could have passed on the north side of the citgo station and still cause the damage to the pentagon and you will have a point here.

[Scientologist]

Unverifiable evidence.

I am certain that people will believe what we present more.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it unless you come up with some ludicrous conspiracy theory.


EVIDENCE

[Bell]

Unverifiable evidence.

I am certain that people will believe what we present more.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it unless you come up with some ludicrous conspiracy theory.

I hope you are proud of what you are doing?[/sarcasm]

Go lie into the faces of the families of the AA77 and Pentagon victims if you dare, you [rule8] :mad:

[stateofgrace]

Wrong.

None of you have been able to demonstrate the physical damage as having been caused from the plane if it flew on the North side.

If you can not.....our evidence will prove that the physical damage was staged which in turn proves 9/11 an inside job.

It is not our responsibility to prove any details beyond which we have evidence for.

WRONG.

The burden of proof does not lie with a single person on this forum it lies with you. You are the one presenting the new evidence. It is your burden to prove this evidence is credible and within keeping with all the known facts. If you cannot carry this burden your evidence is not worth the paper it is written.

Carry your burden and back up your evidence with all the known facts. Do as you have been requested, take it to the authorities. You won’t because you know the rest of the evidence simply decimates your new explosive evidence.

So do it, stop mouthing off, stop posting,log off, lift the phone and get in touch with the authorities, or are you protecting murderers?

[Garb]

Explain how the plane could have passed on the north side of the citgo station and still cause the damage to the pentagon and you will have a point here.

It couldn't have.


But that is okay cause it didn't go that way.

[Pardalis]

Do you know what is going to happen to you once you post your evidence?

As a survivalist, did you think about that?

[~enigma~]

Fact is by witholding the evidence he claims to have he is doing nothing except proving the deceptive practice of most woowoo twoofer poopoos. Now when he shows anything, he shot his own credibility in the face.
Your evidence lite is :deadhorse

[Pardalis]

Type "Lyte Trip" and "withholding evidence" on Google, see what is the first result...

[Big Les]

According to the backbiting on the LC forums, the gist of this supposedly history-changing evidence is an "incorrect" (in what respect I'm not sure) animation and a led or coerced "witness" from the Citgo.

Cross-posted from another thread here. (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=410&st=30)

Big funking whoop. But, benefit of the doubt, if you really have what you're making out that you think you have, take it to the courts. Or the press.

You're withholding evidence.

[Alt+F4]

Unverifiable evidence.

What about the 100 forensic specialists and others that identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77)? All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims.

Are all these people involved in a conspiracy as well?

[The_Fire]

from http://www.aopc.org/Index/Aopc/Glossary/a.htm

accessory
Person who aids or contributes in commission of a crime, usually by convincing someone to commit a crime or by helping the suspect escape or hide evidence. Usually not present during the crime. Compare accomplice.


Or in other words: By having evidence of a massive crime and the coverup of said crime and not reporting it, lyte is commiting a crime as well......

[Lyte Trip]

By all means, make up all the Bizarro World Rules you wish.

Just don't expect your "evidence" to convince anyone outside the rapidly dwindling pool of twoofers, unless you adhere to the same standards of evidence and accountability that the rest of the world abides by.

Then again, why do any real work if the true objective is to peddle a few DVD's.

Oh I guarantee it will convince everyone that sees it that the plane flew on the north side of the station.

Including you.

I highly reccomend you work on a plan to defend the official story in this scenario if you don't want to join the truth movement.

[Pardalis]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35103

[TheGrunion]

Oh I guarantee it will convince everyone that sees it that the plane flew on the north side of the station.

Including you.

I highly reccomend you work on a plan to defend the official story in this scenario if you don't want to join the truth movement.

To quote the immortal Scott Hall (the dude pictured in my avatar)

"Don't sing it, bring it."

[Lyte Trip]

What about the 100 forensic specialists and others that identified 184 of the 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack (125 from the Pentagon and 64 onboard American Airlines flight 77)? All but one of the passengers onboard American Airlines flight 77 was positively identified as a match with DNA samples provided by the families of the crash victims.

Are all these people involved in a conspiracy as well?

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

[The_Fire]

Oh I guarantee it will convince everyone that sees it that the plane flew on the north side of the station.

Including you.

I highly reccomend you work on a plan to defend the official story in this scenario if you don't want to join the truth movement.

Against a non-existant piece of evidence?
Where are your evidence?

[The_Fire]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

Where are yours?

[Lyte Trip]

According to the backbiting on the LC forums, the gist of this supposedly history-changing evidence is an "incorrect" (in what respect I'm not sure) animation and a led or coerced "witness" from the Citgo.

Cross-posted from another thread here. (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=410&st=30)

Big funking whoop. But, benefit of the doubt, if you really have what you're making out that you think you have, take it to the courts. Or the press.

You're withholding evidence.

Wrong.

This has nothing to do with the FDR.

No witnesses were coerced or manipulated at all.

This will be evident from the interviews and from the identities of the witnesses themselves.

[Lyte Trip]

from http://www.aopc.org/Index/Aopc/Glossary/a.htm


Or in other words: By having evidence of a massive crime and the coverup of said crime and not reporting it, lyte is commiting a crime as well......

Glad to hear you now believe 9/11 was an inside job!

[The_Fire]

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=35103

Interesting.....So is this:
http://law.enotes.com/everyday-law-encyclopedia/libel-and-slander

Maybe we should start contacting some of the members of the FDNY?

[Bell]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

Stop with this f-ing game, you [rule8]! :mad:

You show NO respect for the victims and families of AA77 and the Pentagon. It's all about you, isn't it? You're a selfish little [rule8]!

[Pardalis]

1- your evidence is true and you will get arrested for withholding evidence of a major criminal investigation.

2- you're just another internet troll.

:eusa_think:

[The_Fire]

Glad to hear you now believe 9/11 was an inside job!

Nice try. I didn't say that. So far I have seen no evidence of that. You, however, have claimed to posses such evidence. I was making you, and everyone else, aware that by withholding such evidence, if it exists, you are commiting a crime. Now cough it up.

[The_Fire]

Wrong.

This has nothing to do with the FDR.

No witnesses were coerced or manipulated at all.

This will be evident from the interviews and from the identities of the witnesses themselves.

Where is your evidence?

[The_Fire]

1- your evidence is true and you will get arrested for withholding evidence of a major criminal investigation.

2- you're just another internet troll.

:eusa_think:

I would go for 2. I haven't seen evidence of the oppersite.

[Brainster]

Please don't take offense to this but I don't think you should take part in the 9/11 debate. I saw your show with Les Jamison and was less than impressed with your arguments.

I appreciate the amount of respect you offer conspiracy theorists but you should have taken that opportunity to mop the floor with that retard.

He was one of the tools I thoroughly dismantled at Union Square. You need to learn to call a liar a liar. He made up a few things in that interview with you and you didn't call him on any of it. You seemed more able to quote Gravy's paper which is fine and dandy but my opinion is you should get someone as qualified as Gravy on the matter to be on "our side" and just be a fair moderator.

I disagree. Ron did a controlled demolition on Les, and for once, even the Deniers agreed that it was a knockout. Check out the comments section on this post (http://www.911blogger.com/2006/07/les-jamieson-interviewed-by-ronald.html) at 9-11 Blogger. Ron says that he was mostly a novice to 9-11 Denial at the time and he has learned a lot since then. I am 100% confident in his ability to handle Bermas and Rowe on his own. With Gravy at his side, it's going to be a slaughter.

One of the things I loved about Ron's interview was the way he would introduce a typically loony part of the CT and ask Les, "Now, you don't believe that, do you?" and Les would be forced to give an embarrassed smile and admit that yes, indeed he did believe it. Just plain terrific. I've always felt that defending the official story takes a lot of hard work (which Gravy and a few others have done); debunking the CT is quite a bit easier.

Anyway, Ron's not going to be able to change the rules of the debate at this stage without giving Dylan's buddies an opportunity to back out.

[Calcas]

From you yes.

Temporarily.
Craig, (which seems to be your name since it's on your NAME TAG on one of your pics), please feel free to forward your evidence to me and I will see to it that my colleagues review it for you first before you step into that BIG pile of doo doo that you seem to be destined for...

And, BTW.

Yosemite National Forest? Have California public schools really deteriorated that much? You aren't even taught the difference between a park and a forest?

[The_Fire]

Yosemite National Forest?

Ouch.....

[Kent1]

Wrong.

This has nothing to do with the FDR.

No witnesses were coerced or manipulated at all.

This will be evident from the interviews and from the identities of the witnesses themselves.
Just witness testimony?

[beachnut]

Unverifiable evidence.

I am certain that people will believe what we present more.

Not a single jrefer will be able to doubt it unless you come up with some ludicrous conspiracy theory.

Truth Warrior, it is verified. Yours seems to be eye witness testimony and you forgot to take them to the scene. Do you have the right gas station?

[Arus808]

Truth Warrior, it is verified. Yours seems to be eye witness testimony and you forgot to take them to the scene. Do you have the right gas station?

and that they remember exactly where they were standing and facing and actually know what was north vs south at the time it happened?

Please, I can barely remember which is north or south when i take the wrong freaking freeway exit and have to find the next onramp.

[Alt+F4]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notablecases/moussaoui/exhibits/

http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/reprint/223/1/7.pdf

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3912/is_200209/ai_n9086520

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/11/september11/main521560.shtml

http://www.ftechi.com/newsroom.html

http://www.cstl.nist.gov/div831/strbase/pub_pres/Edson2004.pdf

[beachnut]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

And where is your proof it was not. (my goodness you are a virtual nest of CT junk, you must be doing lots of drugs and thus you can not go to the FBI with your proof!) (I have to confess, after your posts I need a lot of drugs to make it to Saturday! TGIF)

It is correct, if you have evidence you better contact the FBI. If you release real stuff you will be in jail soon for withholding evidence Mr Truth Warrior!

[pomeroo]

No offense taken, Scientologist. You raise a good point. I've always defined a lie as an untrue statement that is known to be untrue by the person making it. We all occasionally say things that turn out to be incorrect. The liars, by avoiding direct questions and by distorting and falsifying data, demonstrate that they know they're peddling snake oil.

[stateofgrace]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?

Oh my the corner stone of the conspirator. Brilliant, Tripper simply ignore everything that makes you look stupid.

So Tripper if your explosive new evidence is to go anywhere, then we have believe the following

1. The DNA was not there, or planted.
2. The lampposts were staged.
3. The plane parts found at the Pentagon were planted or faked.
4. The black boxes found at the Pentagon were planted.
5. The black boxes that were planted had the wrong data on them.
6. The forensic scientists are in on it or where not there.
7. The aircraft investigators were not there or are in on it.
8. Everybody who turned up to help is in on it.
9. All the eyewitnesses who saw Flight 77 hit the posts are in on it or mistaken.
10.All the eyewitnesses who saw the Flight 77 hit the Pentagon are lying or in on it.
11. You are not with holding vital information and have phoned the authorities
12. You are in fact an ok guy who is in fear for his life.
13. You are not paranoid.

Anything else you wish to add?

[T.A.M.]

Ron:

The Les Jameson take down was nothing. It was great dont get me wrong, as I have always contended, with little 9/11 knowledge you had him totally unable to defend anything. that is my point. Now, with so much research and debate in the specifics under your belt, and with Mark by your side, it is a no brainer. I say odds of the LTW fellows showing up are 3:1 against it.

oh, and guys, should I get on my knees and pray that you folks dont feed this same troll (lyte) on the same issue as we all did last time that turned into 35 pages of crap.

TAM

[beachnut]

In addition, Lyte the Truth Warrior has to ignore the fact the damage to the Pentagon is exactly what a 757 would do to the Pentagon at the speed it hit and the fuel it carried.

So the engine in the living room in OKC was not place there by the big tornado, it was dropped by the OKC guard from a C-130; a special air drop using the big tornado as cover!

What is your stuff mr warrior, I can not wait for 31 days!

[pomeroo]

Permit me to state for the record that Lyte Trip is yet another fraud who has zero evidence for his fantasies.

[W6102LA]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".

Translation: oh gee...i think it's time for me to move the goalposts again

:p

[jhunter1163]

Someone should tell JDX that Lyte is challenging his precious FDR data. That would make for a heck of a show.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

For those just tuning in:

The first page and a half of this thread was mostly light-hearted chuckling over Jason Bermas sticking his foot in his mouth and slandering both himself and the FDNY yet again.

The remaining 4 pages are all Lyte Trip "pulling it" in public.

[beachnut]

so true

[jhunter1163]

For those just tuning in:

The first page and a half of this thread was mostly light-hearted chuckling over Jason Bermas sticking his foot in his mouth and slandering both himself and the FDNY yet again.

The remaining 4 pages are all Lyte Trip "pulling it" in public.

This is a good idea. Posting little synopses of the threads, that is. Not Lyte pulling it. No. Never. BAD visual.

Now I gotta go wash my brain out with soap.

[Gravy]

Just read the OP and had to comment. Sorry if this has already been covered.

And, of course, within one hour of posting, our good buddies at SLC and JREF, who do not deserve a mention let alone a link, call this "back-pedaling." No, this is called, "admitting to a mistake and apologizing for it."

It then moved to the firefighters and some how I said "The firefighters are paid off", and then cited how many of them discussed the bombs in the days after.Um, no. He claimed they discussed bombs. He didn't cite any firefighter who believes this. The only one I know of is Sentinel, AKA Paul Isaac Jr.

Gee, I wonder what made Bermas change his mind?

[Lyte Trip]

Someone should tell JDX that Lyte is challenging his precious FDR data. That would make for a heck of a show.

Incorrect.

Rob does not claim the FDR is an accurate representation of how the plane flew.

He is simply asking for an explanation for it's discrepancies with the official story.

No matter how you slice it the hard, relevant, and important data such as altitude is way off. Period.

[Lyte Trip]

Anything else you wish to add?

That the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

Explain how you can reconcile that with the official story or else you better start asking the USG all those other questions.

[Gravy]

Note also that Bermas has not changed his mind about the firemen supposedly having evidence that would prove the CT, just about why they are keeping quiet:



So it's threats, not payoffs? I suppose that's a little better.:rolleyes:Remember the video of the fireman speaking on the steps of St. Mark's Church, who said there was no gag order? Guess who filmed that? Jason Bermas. He really needs to start watching his own stuff.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

This is a good idea. Posting little synopses of the threads, that is. Not Lyte pulling it. No. Never. BAD visual.

Now I gotta go wash my brain out with soap.

I just wanted to help some other potential victim avoid making the same mistake I did.

I actually read the whole thing. :(

[JFM]

That the plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

Explain how you can reconcile that with the official story or else you better start asking the USG all those other questions.

Wrong. You have to reconcile this imaginary evidence of yours, with everything that points to a 757 knocking down posts and impacting the Pentagon from the south.

Sheesh do you have a brain?

[Gravy]

I can't speak for other people in the movement but here is what I believe.

None of the firefighters were in on it and Silverstein did not "order" the demolition but he did know about it.

High level federal operatives told the fire deptartment that their specialists had determined the building would collapse and to get their people out of the way.

Silverstein knew that it was an obvious demolition and made his famous quote to cover his butt so if it came back he could say....."they told me they were going to pull it.......I just said go ahead and do it".
If your version is true, then the firefighters are lying and are indeed "in on it." Please justify your "belief" by backing it with evidence, or retract your statement.

[LashL]

Hey folks, just a quick question: why on earth are you/we letting Lyte Trip derail this thread about Bermas and his non-apology into yet another boring thread about LyteTrip's non-existent "evidence" about the planes at the Pentagon? It is obvious that LT has issues about not getting enough attention, but hey, that's his problem. He's been promising his earth shattering evidence since August and it's now December, and he hasn't provided any evidence whatsoever. This isn't the thread for his attention whoring in any event. It would be useful if we could confine his puffery to the thread specifically about his non-evidence rather than let it invade other threads.

Now, about Bermas and the subject matter of this thread. That wasn't an "apology" - that was a "damn, now that I know I'm going to get called on this in the debate I've agreed to, I had better work on damage control because I know I'm going to get my ass handed to me, so let's see how I can spin this - um, Do Over, help me!"

Bermas' behaviour would be comical if the subject matter weren't so damned serious. As it is, he's simply trying to find himself an "out" ahead of time because he knows that not only his words, but his grotesquely disrespectful demeanor, have been preserved on video, and he knows how obvious it is to any observer that he accused FDNY firefighters of being in on the "inside job".

[Lyte Trip]

If your version were true, then the firefighters are lying and are indeed "in on it." Please justify your "belief" by backing it with evidence, or retract your statement.

What part of my post don't you get?

Nothing I said requires the fire department to be in on it.

I will not retract my "belief" because of your transparant attempt at using bullying rhetoric.

We see right through your verbal manipulations.

[jamrat]

Hey folks, just a quick question: why on earth are you/we letting Lyte Trip derail this thread about Bermas and his non-apology into yet another boring thread about LyteTrip's non-existent "evidence"? Looks like LT has issues about not getting enough attention but hey, that's his problem. He's been promising his earth shattering evidence since August and it's now December, and this isn't the thread for it in any event. It would be useful if we could confine his puffery to the thread specifically about his non-evidence rather than let it invade other threads.

Now, about Bermas and the subject matter of this thread. That wasn't an "apology" - that was a "damn, now that I know I'm going to get called on this in the debate I've agreed to, I had better work on damage control because I know I'm going to get my ass handed to me, so let's see how I can spin this - Do Over, HELP!"

Bermas' behaviour would be comical if the subject matter weren't so damned serious. As it is, he's simply trying to find himself an "out" ahead of time because he knows that not only his words, but his grotesquely disrespectful demeanor, have been preserved on video, and he knows how obvious it is to any observer that he accused FDNY firefighters of being in on the "inside job".


I agree, Lyte's got nothing and trashing that dimwit Bermas is much more fun!

[Arus808]

That the a plane flew on the north side of the citgo.

Corrected that for you. You have no evidence that it was Flight 77 that flew in from the North. All you have is the questionable testimony of an unamed witness, who probably didn't even know what was North from South that day. And you discount the testimony that there was indeed a second plane flying around that day...the one that was sent to investigate what happened to Flight 77.

[Lyte Trip]

He's been promising his earth shattering evidence since August and it's now December...


Incorrect.

My follow up trip to Arlington when I obtained the earth shattering evidence was in November.

It has been just under 3 weeks.

It will be presented this month.

[Lyte Trip]

Corrected that for you. You have no evidence that it was Flight 77 that flew in from the North. All you have is the questionable testimony of an unamed witness, who probably didn't even know what was North from South that day. And you discount the testimony that there was indeed a second plane flying around that day...the one that was sent to investigate what happened to Flight 77.

Oh I agree.

I certainly don't believe it was flight 77.

However I do not discount testimony of a second plane.

I simply discount the claim that it was "shadowing" what was believed to be flight 77 within a few seconds.

But I can promise you that the witnesses we talked to are talking about the plane that everyone believes hit the Pentagon.

This will be demonstrated to EVERYONE'S 100% satisfaction.

[stateofgrace]

I agree, Lyte's got nothing and trashing that dimwit Bermas is much more fun!

I agree also. Tripper clear off to your own thread and leave everybody in peace to bash Bermas.

[Gravy]

Wrong.

I said we would "address" the light poles and we will.

That means we will present a hypothesis as to how they were staged.Keep in mind that your "hypothesis" must, at minimum, match the evidence that the poles were struck by flight 77. You interviewed people who were there when that happened, and now you call them liars. Sorry, that won't do. I'm very interested to see what evidence you have that will prove the people wrong who saw it happen. We've been reminding you of this since you started posting, but you still don't get it.

Lyte Trip: What? I have to match or exceed the existing evidence? That's not fair!

Gravy: Check your chemtrail filter. It may need changing.

[Lyte Trip]

[quote=Gravy;2141667]Keep in mind that your "hypothesis" must, at minimum, match the evidence that the poles were struck by flight 77. You interviewed people who were there when that happened, and now you call them liars. Sorry, that won't do. I'm very interested to see what evidence you have that will prove the people wrong who saw it happen. We've been reminding you of this since you started posting, but you still don't get it.

[quote]

You so aren't getting this yet!

[Lyte Trip]

Keep in mind that your "hypothesis" must, at minimum, match the evidence that the poles were struck by flight 77. You interviewed people who were there when that happened, and now you call them liars. Sorry, that won't do. I'm very interested to see what evidence you have that will prove the people wrong who saw it happen.

Wrong again.

You so aren't getting this yet!

There will be nothing for you to debunk in what we present.

[rwguinn]

Hey folks, just a quick question: why on earth are you/we letting Lyte Trip derail this thread about Bermas and his non-apology into yet another boring thread about LyteTrip's non-existent "evidence" about the planes at the Pentagon? It is obvious that LT has issues about not getting enough attention, but hey, that's his problem. He's been promising his earth shattering evidence since August and it's now December, and he hasn't provided any evidence whatsoever. This isn't the thread for his attention whoring in any event. It would be useful if we could confine his puffery to the thread specifically about his non-evidence rather than let it invade other threads.
Um.. Because CT'er don't have a monopoly on the 'ol "one-trick pony" syndrome?


Now, about Bermas and the subject matter of this thread. That wasn't an "apology" - that was a "damn, now that I know I'm going to get called on this in the debate I've agreed to, I had better work on damage control because I know I'm going to get my ass handed to me, so let's see how I can spin this - um, Do Over, help me!"

Bermas' behaviour would be comical if the subject matter weren't so damned serious. As it is, he's simply trying to find himself an "out" ahead of time because he knows that not only his words, but his grotesquely disrespectful demeanor, have been preserved on video, and he knows how obvious it is to any observer that he accused FDNY firefighters of being in on the "inside job".

To me, this like debating "Air-Is it necessary?" or
"for what values is 2+2=4"

[Gravy]

Do you have proof that many people were involved?

Did all of these people actually collect the DNA from the pentagon themselves?

Were ANY of them at the pentagon at all?

Where is your evidence for any of this?
The fireball occurred when the jetliner's full fuel tank exploded on impact and roared down corridors so fast that "90% didn't know what happened to them," he said.

Many were sitting at their desks or behind partitions. One woman was found frozen in a sitting position, her arms posed as if reading a document.

Several bodies were found huddled in groups near televisions. Pentagon workers were apparently watching the carnage taking place at the World Trade Center when the hellish scene on TV became reality for them, too.

When Williams discovered the scorched bodies of several airline passengers, they were still strapped into their seats. The stench of charred flesh overwhelmed him.

"It was the worst thing you can imagine," said Williams, whose squad from Fort Belvoir, Va., entered the building, less than four hours after the terrorist attack. "I wanted to cry from the minute I walked in. But I have soldiers under me and I had to put my feelings aside." http://tinyurl.com/kth3m

An important and relevant message to “Pentagon no-planers” from JREF member Hal Bidlack, who was at the Pentagon when flight 77 hit. I hope Lyte Trip will take it to heart:

Killtown,

I am certainly aware of people like yourself who believe that those of us who suffered on 9/11 must be part of some giant plot, either as dupes or plotters. I was in the Pentagon when the plane hit, I held parts of that aircraft in my hands, covered with fuel and oil, and I helped with the triage area. I helped a guy with a headwound, aided ambulances coming in, and suffer to this day with ongoing nightmares on a very regular basis. When one has seen what I saw, and had to do what I had to do, the images, the smells, the sounds, resonate in your mind forever.

I do not object to your desire to dispute the facts of that day. While I feel you are hopelessly naive and silly, that is your right. But please know that your page on the Pentagon crash is deeply offensive to the survivors such as myself. Again, it's not that you argue. But your tone is one of mocking, of making light of the greatest suffering I ever saw in my 25 years of military service. Your fake "quotes," your quips, all mock the pain of those of us that were there, and served that day. I am very likely one of the people in some of your photographs, and I assure you our thoughts were not about the grass (a silly claim you make, by the way), but were deeply, intensely worried about the people hurt, the people left inside. I will never forget that day, and while I can forgive your foolishness in not understanding the facts, the science, the reality of that day, I find it much harder to forgive your willingness to laugh at those who were so terribly hurt that day. Such an attitude shows you to be a cruel and heartless person, in addition to silly one.

LT Col Hal Bidlack
USAF Retired

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61874
Lyte Trip, what's it like to live in a world where everyone is lying but you?

[Gravy]

Wrong again.

You so aren't getting this yet!

There will be nothing for you to debunk in what we present.
Wrong? You posit that the witnesses you interviewed may be secret government agents or under the influence of a "mind control" or "hypnosis" program. Show me where I'm wrong about that.

How are those chemtrails coming along, Lyte?

[Gravy]

What part of my post don't you get?

Nothing I said requires the fire department to be in on it.

I will not retract my "belief" because of your transparant attempt at using bullying rhetoric.

We see right through your verbal manipulations.Your version says that the story told by all the firefighters, including all the chiefs, is false.

It's time to justify your version with evidence or retract it. Be a man and do it, Lyte. Don't be a whining child.

[LashL]

Um.. Because CT'er don't have a monopoly on the 'ol "one-trick pony" syndrome?

That's probably accurate, yes. We all have our moments, and that's understandable. But "we", collectively, have better debating skills, better critical thinking skills and better analytical thinking skills than CTers and we are usually pretty good at cutting this kind of deliberate derailing crap off at the knees rather than letting CT morons continue to derail a perfectly good thread when there is a perfectly good parallel thread on the other topic right.. over.. there ----->

To me, this like debating "Air-Is it necessary?" or
"for what values is 2+2=4"

I could not agree more :)

[Crungy]

From the looks of it, the one everyone calls "Bermas" has been back pedelling from evolution for quite some time now.

[Arus808]

Oh I agree.

I certainly don't believe it was flight 77.

Okay guys, we have an admission here! he agrees that the plane that his 'witness' saw fly from the "north" was not Flight 77...

However I do not discount testimony of a second plane.

Okay gusy, another admission, he admits that the testimony of those seeing another plane in the area can't be discounted!



I simply discount the claim that it was "shadowing" what was believed to be flight 77 within a few seconds.


It wasn't shadowing. It was looking for the flight, as reported.

But I can promise you that the witnesses we talked to are talking about the plane that everyone believes hit the Pentagon.


YOU do realize that the CITGO station sits a little under the berm between it and Pentagon, and in order for anyoen to see clearly that the "north" path plane , they'd have to have been standing on top of the Citgo Station.

Were youre witnesses ontop of hte building? How does your witness see it (assumingly while he was at the pumps) a fast moving plane then make it to the top of the station to see ti impact the pentagon.

Or you're assuming (as that's what you've been doign, backed by no facts whatsoever) that the plane they saw was the plane that hit thepentagaon (flight 77)....

[realitybites]

Remember that Hollywood doesn't care about whether the story is true or not; it's whether it will sell tickets or help them somewhere else. It appears quite possible to me that Loose Change will be picked up by a studio as a "favor" to Charlie Sheen, and then maybe Sheen will make a guest spot or cameo on some other TV show or movie.
I have a feeling that Sheen may be the narrator for FC. Avery has stated over on their forums that he will not be doing the voice-over. Landing Sheen would give the film some Hollywood cred.

[Crungy]

I have a feeling that Sheen may be the narrator for FC. Avery has stated over on their forums that he will not be doing the voice-over. Landing Sheen would give the film some Hollywood cred.

And more importantly a Blackberry full of every silicone endowed hooker in So-Cal.

[JamesB]

I have a feeling that Sheen may be the narrator for FC. Avery has stated over on their forums that he will not be doing the voice-over. Landing Sheen would give the film some Hollywood cred.

And we all know Charlie Sheen has such gravitas.

[Abbyas]

You know, I've taken a bit of a 9/11 break, but in the words of Al Pacino in Godfather part III, "Everytime I try to (something or other), they pull me back in!" How can I stop when I'm so important to these people?

I'm a Jedi. My little brothers will be so very proud.

[Crungy]

You know, I've taken a bit of a 9/11 break, but in the words of Al Pacino in Godfather part III, "Everytime I try to (something or other), they pull me back in!" How can I stop when I'm so important to these people?

I'm a Jedi. My little brothers will be so very proud.

Quoting Godfather III?! WTF! To quote another Coppola flick, "The horror, the horror!"

[realitybites]

Okay, so I'm not going to read all these pages of Lyte blowing is clue prematurely, but is someone saving these admissions of witholding evidence for future use?

Even though I'm sure the evidence is sheeit, these pages could come in handy some way.

And just to get this thread back on topic, Bermas is a douche. Lyte, stop using this thread to out-douche your Messiah.

[The Almond]

There will be nothing for you to debunk in what we present.

My God, the ego in this statement astounds me. Where do you get off determining the relevence of evidence, the nature of truth or the iron-clad-water-tightness of your data before you present it? No self-respecting scientist or researcher does this. It's a breach of ethics.

[Abbyas]

And just to get this thread back on topic, Bermas is a douche.

May I just add that Dylan didn't realize he said this... on a video that Avery himself put together. HE EDITED IT HIMSELF AND DIDN'T WATCH IT?

[JamesB]

You know, I've taken a bit of a 9/11 break, but in the words of Al Pacino in Godfather part III, "Everytime I try to (something or other), they pull me back in!" How can I stop when I'm so important to these people?

I'm a Jedi. My little brothers will be so very proud.

Well I often say stupid things when I am around Abby, but I always thought it was the beer...

Thank you, thank you, I'll be in town until Thursday. Don't forget there is a two drink minimum.

[JamesB]

May I just add that Dylan didn't realize he said this... on a video that Avery himself put together. HE EDITED IT HIMSELF AND DIDN'T WATCH IT?

Well in all fairness to Dylan, it was pretty unwatchable...

I mean after you have seen 5 scenes of someone trying to buy subway tokens, what more is there really to contribute to the genre?

[pomeroo]

Lyte Trip may be a fantasist and a fraud, but not everything he writes is false. The following statement is completely correct:

"There will be nothing for you to debunk in what we present."

There will be nothing. That much is clear.

[Arus808]

Lyte Trip may be a fantasist and a fraud, but not everything he writes is false. The following statement is completely correct:

"There will be nothing for you to debunk in what we present."

There will be nothing. That much is clear.


haha can't debunk something if it doesn't exist.

[Gravy]

Remember the video of the fireman speaking on the steps of St. Mark's Church, who said there was no gag order? Guess who filmed that? Jason Bermas. He really needs to start watching his own stuff.Correction: I don't know which LTW member was filming inside St. Mark's Church on 12/11/05, but Bermas is on camera interviewing FDNY lieutenant John Cerillo (sp?) afterwards.

I'm a fireman. There is no gag order on the job at all. But when I'm in uniform, when I'm on duty, that's a whole different issue. But right now you can ask me anything I want. I'll tell you anything I know.

[Gravy]

May I just add that Dylan didn't realize he said this... on a video that Avery himself put together. HE EDITED IT HIMSELF AND DIDN'T WATCH IT?That method worked for Loose Change. Editing is for doers! Watching is for...watchers.

[steve s]

Originally Posted by 60hzxtl View Post
Do over! Do Over!!!

Mulligan!

A Dylligan?

[EvilBiker]

This will be demonstrated to EVERYONE'S 100% satisfaction.
Ugh - I just had a Joe Newman deja vu. Or was it Dennis Lee?

LT, could you repeat that for the voice analyser, please? You may be possessed by a couple of ghosts of Woosenseless Last.

[60hzxtl]

A Dylligan?

Dylligan, begin again!


Loose Change! How many versions do You own?

[stateofgrace]

Killtown,

I am certainly aware of people like yourself who believe that those of us who suffered on 9/11 must be part of some giant plot, either as dupes or plotters. I was in the Pentagon when the plane hit, I held parts of that aircraft in my hands, covered with fuel and oil, and I helped with the triage area. I helped a guy with a headwound, aided ambulances coming in, and suffer to this day with ongoing nightmares on a very regular basis. When one has seen what I saw, and had to do what I had to do, the images, the smells, the sounds, resonate in your mind forever.

I do not object to your desire to dispute the facts of that day. While I feel you are hopelessly naive and silly, that is your right. But please know that your page on the Pentagon crash is deeply offensive to the survivors such as myself. Again, it's not that you argue. But your tone is one of mocking, of making light of the greatest suffering I ever saw in my 25 years of military service. Your fake "quotes," your quips, all mock the pain of those of us that were there, and served that day. I am very likely one of the people in some of your photographs, and I assure you our thoughts were not about the grass (a silly claim you make, by the way), but were deeply, intensely worried about the people hurt, the people left inside. I will never forget that day, and while I can forgive your foolishness in not understanding the facts, the science, the reality of that day, I find it much harder to forgive your willingness to laugh at those who were so terribly hurt that day. Such an attitude shows you to be a cruel and heartless person, in addition to silly one.

LT Col Hal Bidlack
USAF Retired

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61874 (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=61874)


I would like to requote this post. Although it is directed at Killtown, it is actually directed at the rest of the cter crowd who make up stories about the Pentagon.

This post is by nature one of the most simple but most powerful posts I have ever seen on any Internet forum. I have seen it a few times and it never fails to move me. It is from a man, Lt Col Hal Bidlack who was there. He endured something unimaginable, something so horrific it is actually difficult to grasp the enormity of it.

This one post simply destroys the cters; it puts it all into perspective. That being the Pentagon was not just a reinforced concrete building, it was a place of work, a place where real people, will real life and real families gathered and went about their business.

This one post is all I need; it is the truth, from somebody who was there. It brings absolute shame on anybody who says Flight 77 did not hit the Pentagon. It brings absolute shame on those that profit from this event.

Lt Col Hal Bidlack has something from me the cters will never have, respect, absolute and unreserved.

[Kiwiwriter]

So the short version is:

"I'm wrong...the firefighters weren't paid off by the New World Order...they and their families just had their lives threatened by the New World Order. Sorry I got it wrong."

This is the new version of the "Holohoax" garbage, I guess.

Okay, Jason, if you're really sorry, go to the Firefighters' Union's next meeting, and stand up before those guys and tell them they weren't paid off, they're just all having their lives and families threatened.

I'm sure they'll be fascinated by your story. :boggled:

[The Almond]

So, all it took for Bermas to apologize nearly a year after the fact was for numerous people to tell him the exact minute and second he said it in a video he edited himself. This comes on the heels of months of vehement denials about Gravy's claims despite directly linking to the video.

What a piece of work. It's a wonder why he didn't go into politics.

[Arus808]

people should make copies of those videos, incase do over dylan decides to edit them to take out these "blurted" statements

knowing them, they'd do just that.

[uk_dave]

Has avery ever apologised for the crap he spewed in those radio broadcasts Mark Iradian included in his '911 deniers' video?

That was some really sick **** avery was coming out with

[NobbyNobbs]

We simply obtained the evidence and are working to release it as soon as possible.

"As soon as possible"? How hard is it to release? Pick up the phone, call someone.

Not sure who the "proper authorities" are on this matter but we most certainly will be bringing to anyone and everyone possible and documenting all official responses.

Have you tried at all to find out who the proper authorities are? Asked around for suggestions on who to call? Tried the police, the FBI?

Oh I guarantee it will convince everyone that sees it that the plane flew on the north side of the station.

Including you.




This will be demonstrated to EVERYONE'S 100% satisfaction.

How are you willing to guarantee this? Place a bet? Name your price.



Lyte Trip's argument so far:

1) We have irrefutable evidence.
2) We aren't showing it to you.
3) Go ahead and debunk it.
4) Since you can't debunk it, it is irrefutable evidence. QED.

[CptColumbo]

Lyte Trip's argument so far:

1) We have irrefutable evidence.
2) We aren't showing it to you.
3) Go ahead and debunk it.
4) Since you can't debunk it, it is irrefutable evidence. QED.

Maybe they don't want to give away too much of the movie. :)

Even though they gave it away (literally) on the street.

[tsig]

Not so fast slick. You've already gone on record that what you are working on WILL account for the damage to the light poles.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2117360&postcount=1092

You must be having a rough time of it if you're moving the goal posts before kickoff!

Are we sure just what game he is playing?

[Kiwiwriter]

"As soon as possible"? How hard is it to release? Pick up the phone, call someone.



Have you tried at all to find out who the proper authorities are? Asked around for suggestions on who to call? Tried the police, the FBI?





How are you willing to guarantee this? Place a bet? Name your price.



Lyte Trip's argument so far:

1) We have irrefutable evidence.
2) We aren't showing it to you.
3) Go ahead and debunk it.
4) Since you can't debunk it, it is irrefutable evidence. QED.

A proper authority? How about ATF? I hear the World Trade Center blast involved at least the latter. Or New York Police? Their jurisdiction.

But the argument sounds about right...the only thing you left out is that the CTers pretty much expect other people to do their work for them. They present the theory, and expect us -- since True Believers think that everyone is really on their side -- to go out and get the proof and present it to them, so they can claim victory.

Nice work if you can get it.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Are we sure just what game he is playing?

Baseketball, judging by the maturity level S4S is showing. :p

[60hzxtl]

A proper authority? How about ATF? I hear the World Trade Center blast involved at least the latter.


Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms? That's a government agency?

Dang! I thought it was a one stop convenience store!