The $1000 Convert Me to Your Religion Challenge

[Ryan O'Dine]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.

The only rule is that you must convince me in the space of 1 (one) post in this thread (with possible follow-ups solely at my discretion).

The challenge will end at an arbitrary time of my choosing.

Go.


Note: I will read (and appreciate) but not necessarily respond to every post. The winner, if there is one (NOT guaranteed), will be notified in this thread. I will be sole arbiter of the state or lack thereof of my conviction. Terms and conditions are subject to change.


*or at least that it’s philosophically and/or emotionally irresistible

[Marquis de Carabas]

Gretzkyism (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=279348).

[Ryan O'Dine]

Gretzkyism (http://www.nhl.com/nhl/app?service=page&page=NewsPage&articleid=279348).

1. A web page enumerating the (albeit impressive) accomplishments of a hockey player does not (as far as I can tell -- and I’ve struggled to try, because I respect you, Mr. de Carabas) a religion make.

2. Hockey bores me to tears. Excruciating, stinging tears that hurt coming out of their defenseless, hockey-loathing ducts.

Nice try, though. (Not really, I’m being polite.)

[Marquis de Carabas]

Maybe you should define religion, then.

[Mr Clingford]

HA HA HA at you, Ryan O'Dine, if you think I am going to sell my secrets of religious mind control and perversion for a measly $1000.

The cut I still receive from Benny Hinn for instructing him in my ways easily covers the amount I have spent to keep Bush at the White House.





PS God is wuv (and hellish to boot)

[TobiasTheViking]

i am thy one true god, bow down and i will let thee be my love slave from now till the end of time.

[Terry]

i am thy one true god, bow down and i will let thee be my love slave from now till the end of time.

Oh dear, someone's getting above themselves...

* Terry gets out the paddle...

Come here young man, i need a word with you.

[RenaissanceBiker]

Does Atheism count as a religion? If so, I would like to reserve the right to convince you of its' authenticity in a later post.

[Cosmo]

Frisbeetarianism*!

The belief that, when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down.

Admit it's true - after all, you've seen it happen before.

*Credit to Mr. George Carlin

[Ryan O'Dine]

Maybe you should define religion, then.

Does Atheism count as a religion? If so, I would like to reserve the right to convince you of its' authenticity in a later post.

I’d rather avoid a philosophical discussion about what is and is not religion. I’d prefer people simply post their own candidate and I’ll decide whether or not it has converted me.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I’d rather avoid a philosophical discussion about what is and is not religion.
Then you misunderstand my point. I do not wish to debate your definition of religion, merely to know what it is. I will accept, for purposes of this thread, whatever you define it to be. As it stands, though, your challenge amounts to "convince me of something, and if I decide, by my unnamed criteria, that that something is a religion then I will pay you $1000".

[Ryan O'Dine]

i am thy one true god, bow down and i will let thee be my love slave from now till the end of time.
I can probably eliminate a lot of wasted typing by assuring people I’m no masochist.
Frisbeetarianism*!

The belief that, when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and you can't get it down.

Admit it's true - after all, you've seen it happen before.

*Credit to Mr. George Carlin

A beautiful idea. If you’d like to expand, I’m all ears.

[Cosmo]

A beautiful idea. If you’d like to expand, I’m all ears.

Its simple elegance betrays its ultimate truth. In fact, it even has a Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisbeetarianism) entry, so that means it must be true:

A lesser known aspect is the holy event known as "The Ascension", which is where someone comes along with a ladder and collects all the souls. What happens then is open to debate, though one theory is that the souls are brought back down in a sort of ultimate reincarnation.

[Wowbagger]

Join the Ignoranti (http://www.mitchlampert.net/Ignoranti). Over 1 million blissful citizens can't be wrong!

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

The "duality" mind-world its an illusion. Descartes made it popular, but its absurd. There is only one "substance". You create the world you perceive in the sense that what you see is a construction. This is not to say that only what you interpret as your mind is real, of course, just that what you see is an hypothesis. Given that, its easy to see why non dualism is a religion, it connects you with what you already are, the constants of what you call "universe" are your own constants.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Then you misunderstand my point. I do not wish to debate your definition of religion, merely to know what it is. I will accept, for purposes of this thread, whatever you define it to be. As it stands, though, your challenge amounts to "convince me of something, and if I decide, by my unnamed criteria, that that something is a religion then I will pay you $1000".

I appreciate your question, Marquis, but I’m reluctant to express my definition of religion, as it may exclude possibilities I hadn’t considered. Plus, I'm trying to be open minded.

Let’s just call it a system of beliefs concerning itself with the highest truths. Please don’t ask me define “highest truths” -- that’s part of what the religion should do.

[Upchurch]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.
I'll give it a try.

I'm a member of Unitarian Universalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian-Universalism). UU is a non-creedal, heretical religion which means that there isn't anything you have to believe in to join and you are encouraged to ask questions and question authority.

From the above link:
Even when one faith tradition is primary within a particular setting, Unitarian Universalists are unlikely to assert that theirs is the "only" or even the "best" way possible to discern meaning or theological truths. There is even a popular adult UU course called "Building Your Own Theology".

Many Unitarian Universalists consider themselves humanists, while others hold to Christian, Buddhist, Jewish, natural theist, atheist, agnostic, pantheist, or other beliefs. Some choose to attach no particular theological label to their own idiosyncratic combination of beliefs.

{snip}

Unitarian Universalists (UUs) believe in complete but responsible freedom of speech, thought, belief, faith, and disposition. They believe that each person is free to search for his or her own personal truth on issues like the existence, nature, and meaning of life, deities, creation, and afterlife. UUs can come from any heritage, have any sexual orientation, and hold beliefs from other cultures and religions.

Concepts about deity are quite diverse among UUs. Some believe that there is no god; others believe in many gods. Some believe that God is everything. Some believe in a female God (Goddess), a passive God, or that god is found in nature. Some UUs reject the idea of deities and instead speak of "universal spirit" or "reverence of life". Unitarian Universalists believe that individuals should be supported by their community in their personal searches for truth about deity.

UU is not the One True Religion, but if there is such a thing, UU is one of the few religions that would allow you the intellectual freedom and support structure to help you find it.


eta: And I'm an atheist.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Join the Ignoranti (http://www.mitchlampert.net/Ignoranti). Over 1 million blissful citizens can't be wrong!
I will continue to “watch that page for updates.”
The "duality" mind-world its an illusion. Descartes made it popular, but its absurd. There is only one "substance". You create the world you perceive in the sense that what you see is a construction. This is not to say that only what you interpret as your mind is real, of course, just that what you see is an hypothesis. Given that, its easy to see why non dualism is a religion, it connects you with what you already are, the constants of what you call "universe" are your own constants.
This is very deep and significant. However, it ultimately leaves me cold. (Actually, I'm trying to think if that's a good enough reason not to believe in something. Hmmm...)

[Mr Clingford]

hey, Upchurch, UU sounds just like the Anglican/Episcopal church!

[Ryan O'Dine]

I'll give it a try.

I'm a member of Unitarian Universalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian-Universalism). UU is a non-creedal, heretical religion which means that there isn't anything you have to believe in to join and you are encouraged to ask questions and question authority.

From the above link:


UU is not the One True Religion, but if there is such a thing, UU is one of the few religions that would allow you the intellectual freedom and support structure to help you find it.


eta: And I'm an atheist.
Thank you, Upchurch! I’ve been wondering about UU. We have a fairly strong community up here, and I’ve thought about dropping in, but find myself resistant. I can’t shake the impression that it’s a place where New Agers gather to look respectable. Any truth to that?

[Upchurch]

hey, Upchurch, UU sounds just like the Anglican/Episcopal church!
Except that they have doctorine and all generally believe in Jesus, I guess.

[Mr Clingford]

Except that they have doctorine and all generally believe in Jesus, I guess.Wrong!

There may be doctrine but you don't have to sign anything or say or believe anything you don't want to, and that includes believing in Jesus too, for some. It's a broad church!

[Upchurch]

Wrong!

There may be doctrine but you don't have to sign anything or say or believe anything you don't want to, and that includes believing in Jesus too, for some. It's a broad church!You're describing creed, not doctrine.

[Mr Clingford]

Alright, if you want to get picky..., but it sounds as though you might be surprised if you went down to the Episcopal woods to pray play.

[Upchurch]

Thank you, Upchurch! I’ve been wondering about UU. We have a fairly strong community up here, and I’ve thought about dropping in, but find myself resistant. I can’t shake the impression that it’s a place where New Agers gather to look respectable. Any truth to that?Yes and no. It really depends on the particular congrigation.

The church my wife and I go to is populated mostly by intellectual/academic types. There is a small amount of woo, but it is very small. It is my understanding that other churches could have a high amount of woo. My recomendation is that if you go to one UU church and don't like it, try another. It's not like the Catholic church where all masses are the same everywhere.

As for the doctrine, my particular minister is partial to Robert Frost more than the Bible. She also pulls a lot from jewish, buddist and pop culture.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

This is very deep and significant. However, it ultimately leaves me cold. (Actually, I'm trying to think if that's a good enough reason not to believe in something. Hmmm...)

Ok, the warmth comes from your own "separated" sense of being. Everytime you hug family, or friends, you stablish the deepest possible contact available in the known universe. This brings meaning to your life, so get out of the computer and find someone to hugh, or to kiss, or to talk, knowing that only the unreality of what you are, and what surrounds you, its the reality of the infinite (in this sense) feeling you express for them.

[Mr Clingford]

What about Quakerism? No creeds or doctrine.

[President Bush]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.

The only rule is that you must convince me in the space of 1 (one) post in this thread (with possible follow-ups solely at my discretion).

The challenge will end at an arbitrary time of my choosing.

Go.


Note: I will read (and appreciate) but not necessarily respond to every post. The winner, if there is one (NOT guaranteed), will be notified in this thread. I will be sole arbiter of the state or lack thereof of my conviction. Terms and conditions are subject to change.


*or at least that it’s philosophically and/or emotionally irresistible
Read (http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/scripture/bokonon/bernd-wechners-bokonon-stuff/books.html). Pay.

[Ryan O'Dine]

What about Quakerism? No creeds or doctrine.

I know little about Quakerism. I could Google it, but I’d prefer a brief paragraph in your own words, with the goal being to maximize convincingness.

Or you could just provide me the most convincing link.

Or if that's more work than you wanted, I suppose I could look into later... *grumble*

Read (http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/scripture/bokonon/bernd-wechners-bokonon-stuff/books.html). Pay.

You may be surprised that I wasn’t instantly converted. You won’t be surprised that I laughed. Thank you for that. Brilliant.

[Jekyll]

Read (http://hackvan.com/pub/stig/scripture/bokonon/bernd-wechners-bokonon-stuff/books.html). Pay.

No damn cat. No damn cradle.

[Mr Clingford]

Right. Quakerism. I attended some meetings a few years ago. First the bad news. No virgin/god sacrifices (try Fundamentalist Pagans, we have a branch opening near you). No indiscriminate killing. No leaders. Good news. In its most minimalist form no creeds, holy books, and the only doctrines is, I think, the belief that there is a divine spark in everyone (you may define 'divine' and 'spark'). Meetings once a week. An hour or so long. If someone thinks they have something useful/helpful/pertinent to say then they will break the silence. You might wish to try and make the world a better place through fighting (in the best possible taste) injustice, poverty etc.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

To summarize. My religion is to love the ones I care about, to be with them as long as I can, to do everything I consider interesting or valuable while Im alive. All the sacred is here.

Existence is like the edge of a sword between two abysses.

[RenaissanceBiker]

I submit atheism. There is no Tooth Fairy. There is no Easter Bunny. There is no Santa Claus. There are no gods. Spirituality is just an emotional connection to mankind and the rest of the universe. Morality is defined by human society as a method of cooperation and coexistance with our fellow man. It changes as the needs of society changes. Atheism does not seek to control what you do, say or think. Atheism does not require, request or desire any money from you. There are no holy days. There are no rituals to perform. You do not have to go to any church or attend any meetings at all. You can join an atheist group if you like, or be an atheist all by yourself. It does not matter. We only want you to be free from needless guilt, mental slavery and religious delusion. Become an atheist and be free.

Edit: If I win, please donate the $1,000 to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.

[Mr Clingford]

Nicely put, RenaissanceBiker. Theists, though, may also say

"We only want you to be free from needless guilt, mental slavery and religious delusion" :D

[Ryan O'Dine]

Right. Quakerism. I attended some meetings a few years ago. First the bad news. No virgin/god sacrifices (try Fundamentalist Pagans, we have a branch opening near you). No indiscriminate killing. No leaders. Good news. In its most minimalist form no creeds, holy books, and the only doctrines is, I think, the belief that there is a divine spark in everyone (you may define 'divine' and 'spark'). Meetings once a week. An hour or so long. If someone thinks they have something useful/helpful/pertinent to say then they will break the silence. You might wish to try and make the world a better place through fighting (in the best possible taste) injustice, poverty etc.
I was under the impression that Quakerism was an offshoot of Christianity. Am I mistaken?

I submit atheism. There is no Tooth Fairy. There is no Easter Bunny. There is no Santa Claus. There are no gods. Spirituality is just an emotional connection to mankind and the rest of the universe. Morality is defined by human society as a method of cooperation and coexistance with our fellow man. It changes as the needs of society changes. Atheism does not seek to control what you do, say or think. Atheism does not require, request or desire any money from you. There are no holy days. There are no rituals to perform. You do not have to go to any church or attend any meetings at all. You can join an atheist group if you like, or be an atheist all by yourself. It does not matter. We only want you to be free from needless guilt, mental slavery and religious delusion. Become an atheist and be free.

Edit: If I win, please donate the $1,000 to the American Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund.

Mr Clingford somewhat makes my point. Your religion seems mostly describable in negatives. This doesn’t preclude, but it’s a harder sell. To an extent, one could take any system one disagrees with and claim that one follows the absence of it. Which wouldn’t necessarily make a compelling religion on its own IMHO.

Also, my understanding is that there are two types of atheism. There’s the belief that NO God exists, and there’s the belief that one should live life independent of the question of God’s existence. If that’s true, are you arguing for one or the other of those?

[headscratcher4]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.

The only rule is that you must convince me in the space of 1 (one) post in this thread (with possible follow-ups solely at my discretion).

The challenge will end at an arbitrary time of my choosing.

Go.


Note: I will read (and appreciate) but not necessarily respond to every post. The winner, if there is one (NOT guaranteed), will be notified in this thread. I will be sole arbiter of the state or lack thereof of my conviction. Terms and conditions are subject to change.


*or at least that it’s philosophically and/or emotionally irresistible


Tuesday is all you can eat shrimp night at the Church of the Red Lobster.

[Mr Clingford]

I was under the impression that Quakerism was an offshoot of Christianity. Am I mistaken?No, you are correct, but the extent of the shooting can be considerable, to the extent that it can be no longer Christian; in the meetings I attended there were Christians, of the Methodist and Anglican/Episcopal persuasion (not exactly the most rabid of types) and also non-theists. You could read something from the Bible if it grabbed you, or any religious text, or non-religious text, if you thought it might help others to become better people.

[LawnOven]

Maybe you are a Discordian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism)

[Upchurch]

Maybe you are a Discordian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism)
huh. After all that time of being called a Discordian by Franko, it never occured to me to look up the term. Thanks for the link.

[LawnOven]

huh. After all that time of being called a Discordian by Franko, it never occured to me to look up the term. Thanks for the link.


Haha, no problem. I suppose there are worse things you could be called. :)

[Upchurch]

Haha, no problem. I suppose there are worse things you could be called. :)
Oh, he did. Most of them were made-up terms. I just assumed...

[Ryan O'Dine]

Tuesday is all you can eat shrimp night at the Church of the Red Lobster.
So close, headscratcher4... so close...

Just too bad about all the mercury (http://www.cfsan.fda.gov/~frf/sea-mehg.html).

Maybe you are a Discordian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discordianism)
I, too, have seen that referenced, but never followed up. Thank you -- I read as much of that as my poor little brain could take. I assure you, I laughed through my pain.

[RenaissanceBiker]

Nicely put, RenaissanceBiker. Theists, though, may also say

"We only want you to be free from needless guilt, mental slavery and religious delusion" :D

Thank you. Yes, theists might also say that, but they are either deluded or lying. Who can truthfully say, "Adhere to our dogma and be free!"? Not even I can do that. The best I can do is say, "Free yourself from dogma!" Anyway, I got one post to convince Ryan to convert to atheism and I gave it my best shot.

[Marc L]

Have you considered Apathetic Agnosticism (http://uctaa.net/index.html)?

Marc

[Mr Clingford]

Thank you. Yes, theists might also say that, but they are either deluded or lying. Who can truthfully say, "Adhere to our dogma and be free!"? Not even I can do that. The best I can do is say, "Free yourself from dogma!" Anyway, I got one post to convince Ryan to convert to atheism and I gave it my best shot.Well, a wise and good man did suggest that the truth would set you free. In addition, your post contained noble sentiments.

[RenaissanceBiker]

I am standing on the shoulders of giants.

"Emancipate yourself from mental slavery. None but ourselves can free our minds." Bob Marley - Redemption Song

[supercorgi]

Have you considered Apathetic Agnosticism (http://uctaa.net/index.html)?

Marc
I adhered to that religion for a long time. Then I got a little less apathetic and became an atheist. :D

[H3LL]

Ryan O'Dineism.

Only two bits of dogma:

1) Ryan O'Dine is the one true god.

2) Ryan O'Dine believes himself to not be the one true god.



I'll take cash or cheque.

:D

[roger]

Well, looks like I have this $1000 challenge wrapped up.

I have compelling and incontravertable evidence of a God in the form of a miracle that happened to me: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=57828

[Marc L]

Well, if that's the case, then I must reject your reality, and substitute my own (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=68101).

Marc

[Ryan O'Dine]

Thank you. Yes, theists might also say that, but they are either deluded or lying. Who can truthfully say, "Adhere to our dogma and be free!"? Not even I can do that. The best I can do is say, "Free yourself from dogma!" Anyway, I got one post to convince Ryan to convert to atheism and I gave it my best shot.
I hope I haven’t come off like I don’t respect or admire your beliefs. In any event, I’ve added a mess of tags, so maybe others will be convinced where I wasn’t. (If I missed any obvious tags, don't be shy, people.)

Have you considered Apathetic Agnosticism (http://uctaa.net/index.html)?

Marc
I followed your link, and couldn’t quite seem to muster the energy to be apathetic. (I’m sure that’s an original joke.)

Ryan O'Dineism.

Only two bits of dogma:

1) Ryan O'Dine is the one true god.

2) Ryan O'Dine believes himself to not be the one true god.



I'll take cash or cheque.

:D

What an intriguing and devilishly handsome god. May I ask how he’s worshipped? (If it involves, by some chance, giving $1000 cheques or cash to him, we may be able to work something out here.)

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

So you were looking for a joke, I believed that about the religion. ;)

[President Bush]

You may be surprised that I wasn’t instantly converted.
No damn cat. No damn cradle.
Jekyll wins then?

[Dr Adequate]

I am an Elephantist.

I believe in the existence of mammals of the order Proboscidea.

Proof of their existence may be found here (http://elephant.elehost.com/).

Convinced?

[RenaissanceBiker]

I hope I haven’t come off like I don’t respect or admire your beliefs.

Not at all. I enjoyed the chance to make a personal belief statement. We can't expect to have freedom without extending the same courtesy to others.

[Jekyll]

Ryan, I think you have to much invested in this to be an impartial judge of religion, and if someone converts you to the one true religion you can simply wait till this arbitrary period has passed before converting.

You need to pick an impartial judge, such as the president to be converted.



Psst. Dubya, do you fancy $500?

[Ryan O'Dine]

So you were looking for a joke, I believed that about the religion. ;)
I’d like to understand what you mean. While I’m very glad that people have posted joking responses, and whereas the odds are against someone converting me to a religion based on a single post, I’m nonetheless very interested in sincere responses, and am myself sincerely leaving the door open for conversion.

If I’ve been a little glib in dismissing some people’s responses, including yours, Bodhi Dharma Zen, I hope this is understood as speaking much about the limitations and purpose of this thread, and little about the worthiness of the religions offered.

Of course, if I’ve completely misunderstood you here, I apologize.

Jekyll wins then?
Could you explain why Jekyll should win based on his post? Joking or not, I can’t quite penetrate that one. (Maybe I’m just slow this morning.)

I am an Elephantist.

I believe in the existence of mammals of the order Proboscidea.

Proof of their existence may be found here (http://elephant.elehost.com/).

Convinced?
I have always believed elephants exist. This strikes me as categorically similar to Marquis de Carabas’s Gretzkyism.

If you’d care to expand on what higher truths Elephantism adheres to, such that I might convert to them, have at it.

[H3LL]

May I ask how he’s worshipped? (If it involves, by some chance, giving $1000 cheques or cash to him, we may be able to work something out here.)

Your powers are strong.

Strangely, the method of worship involves a careful, solemn, and devout ceremony.

Thou shalt receiveth divine gifts in the form of cheques (or cash).
Thou shalt humbly thanketh the divine giver of the cheque (or cash).
Verily thou shalt embark upon a divine quest armed only with the holy cheque (or cash).
Diligently, and with humble devotion thou shalt seek the holy Bank Teller in the sacred dwelling of marble, glass and pens-on-chains and on bended knee present the holy cheque (or cash).
Beseech the holy Bank Teller in the name of the divine Ryan O'Dine to deliver the holy cheque (or cash) unto thine own store of riches so that it bounceth not.
Much glee and joy to be had.





PS - I noticed the spell checker wanted to change your name from O'Dine to Odin. No chance. :D

[Ryan O'Dine]

I meant to LINK to the Marquis' post, not imbed it. I used Gretskyism

Sorry for derail, but can anybody help?

[Ryan O'Dine]

Ryan, I think you have to much invested in this to be an impartial judge of religion, and if someone converts you to the one true religion you can simply wait till this arbitrary period has passed before converting.

You need to pick an impartial judge, such as the president to be converted.



Psst. Dubya, do you fancy $500?

There’s some truth to what you say, Jekyll. Frankly, I’m surprised no one’s even questioned the existence of the $1000. I actually expected that to be an early issue. The fact that people are more interested in presenting their beliefs than winning a jackpot speaks volumes about the posters around here.

That said, I fully intend being an “impartial judge of religion;” and as far as arbitrariness goes -- well, I agree, my rules are arbitrary.

Your powers are strong.

Strangely, the method of worship involves a careful, solemn, and devout ceremony.

Thou shalt receiveth divine gifts in the form of cheques (or cash).
Thou shalt humbly thanketh the divine giver of the cheque (or cash).
Verily thou shalt embark upon a divine quest armed only with the holy cheque (or cash).
Diligently, and with humble devotion thou shalt seek the holy Bank Teller in the sacred dwelling of marble, glass and pens-on-chains and on bended knee present the holy cheque (or cash).
Beseech the holy Bank Teller in the name of the divine Ryan O'Dine to deliver the holy cheque (or cash) unto thine own store of riches so that it bounceth not.
Much glee and joy to be had.





PS - I noticed the spell checker wanted to change your name from O'Dine to Odin. No chance. :D

I have a debilitating phobia of pens-on-chains. You almost had me, though.

And if your spell checker didn’t try to change my name to “Ryanodine,” which is a pesticide, then you should probably smack it upside the monitor, and otherwise exhibit furious displeasure.

[H3LL]

I have a debilitating phobia of pens-on-chains. You almost had me, though.


Yes, all gods do. That's why you often see only the chain. Gods have disintegrated the pen.

See...I have evidence too.


.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

I’d like to understand what you mean.

Jokes or not, beliefs or not, whether you are looking for something to give you a sense of "spirituality" or just curious about the responses you could get, Im surely hope you find what you want.

[President Bush]

Could you explain why Jekyll should win based on his post?
How you could not be converted to Bokononism (from the novel Cat's Cradle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle))?

Because...

Felix Hoenikker, fictional "Father of the Atomic Bomb" was playing cat's cradle when Hiroshima was destroyed. The game is later referenced by Newt Hoenikker, Felix's midget son, who describes the game by saying "No damn cat, and no damn Cradle"; thus expressing his view that the concepts and ideals taught by all human parents to their children are arbitrary conventions, and that life itself is essentially meaningless.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_cradle"
My bolding in the above. Jekyll wins in that he will have apprehended your default.

What position is that when it comes to religious beliefs? The one you will have shown to have been converted to by not paying out in the end. I prefer denominations of $100, Jekyll.


The fact that people are more interested in presenting their beliefs than winning a jackpot speaks volumes about the posters around here.
Why should I (http://web.ncf.ca/ek867/emmett_kelly.jpg) care about winning a jackpot?

[RenaissanceBiker]

The fact that people are more interested in presenting their beliefs than winning a jackpot speaks volumes about the posters around here.

I hope they are good volumes. I don't really need the money, and the Red Cross Disaster Relief Fund is a good place to make a charitable donation. Donate blood while you are at it. My next blood donation will put me at 5 1/2 gallons.

[Ryan O'Dine]

How you could not be converted to Bokononism (from the novel Cat's Cradle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cat%27s_Cradle))?

Been a long time since I read Cat’s Cradle, and didn’t remember the reference. Thanks.

I was, incidentally, considering naming myself “Ice 9” for this forum. That’s mostly what I remember from the novel. That, and “busy, busy, busy.” That’s all Cat’s Cradle, right? Great novel (what little I remember, heh).

Why should I (http://web.ncf.ca/ek867/emmett_kelly.jpg) care about winning a jackpot?
You mean the only thing I had to do to try to get people to convert me was to ask? Yeesh.

I hope they are good volumes.

The best. No sarcasm intended.



Incidentally, seeing as this thread -- after shining like a bright beacon of glorious hope in a vast sea of confusion and quagmire for a good page and a half -- has fast lost its libido, I’ll probably be withdrawing the monetary prize tomorrow morning (48 hrs after the OP, say -- tentatively). Last chance... the clock’s ticking...

[Gord_in_Toronto]

My religion requires that you make a post to an internet forum with the title "The $1000 Convert Me to Your Religion Challenge". And then make a post in response to my post.

You are half way to being a member. Next step?

[Dr Adequate]

If you’d care to expand on what higher truths Elephantism adheres to, such that I might convert to them, have at it. The existence of elephants. This is certainly a "higher truth" than the beliefs of those heretics who deny the existence of elephants.

Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=30105&page=5) you may see me trying to convert some infidel elephant deniers.

[volatile]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.

The only rule is that you must convince me in the space of 1 (one) post in this thread (with possible follow-ups solely at my discretion).




It's not a religion, but it's an 'ism', and one you probably already subscribe to it to a certain degree - - Secular Humanism (http://www.secularhumanism.org/) . It's (non-dogmatic) tenets are as follows:

We are committed to the application of reason and science to the understanding of the universe and to the solving of human problems.
We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
We believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life.
We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state.
We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
We believe in enjoying life here and now and in developing our creative talents to their fullest.
We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.
We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
We are engaged by the arts no less than by the sciences.
We are citizens of the universe and are excited by discoveries still to be made in the cosmos.
We are skeptical of untested claims to knowledge, and we are open to novel ideas and seek new departures in our thinking.
We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

[Ryan O'Dine]

My religion requires that you make a post to an internet forum with the title "The $1000 Convert Me to Your Religion Challenge". And then make a post in response to my post.

You are half way to being a member. Next step?
Very tricky. I suppose I’m a member of your church now. However, since I don’t believe in it, I don’t consider myself properly converted.

*slinks away sweating bullets*

The existence of elephants. This is certainly a "higher truth" than the beliefs of those heretics who deny the existence of elephants.

Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=30105&page=5) you may see me trying to convert some infidel elephant deniers.

Let me guess. The afterlife is filled with unlimited peanuts and mud baths if you’re good, and if you’re bad -- elephantiasis.

BTW, nice exchange with Ian. :boggled:

[Ryan O'Dine]

It's not a religion, but it's an 'ism', and one you probably already subscribe to it to a certain degree - - Secular Humanism (http://www.secularhumanism.org/) . It's (non-dogmatic) tenets are as follows:


In discussions with fundamentalists, I’ve been “accused” of being a secular humanist. It seems to be a kind of slur with them. I’m not sure which of your enumerated qualities would be most offensive, but I’d guess it’s the whole “eliminating discrimination and intolerance” thing.

Part of the purpose of this thread, though, is to see if someone can offer me that one dogma I haven’t yet encountered which sparks the undiscovered light in my eyes, so to speak. So while I agree with the majority of your list, I’m trying, in this exercise, to leave the door open to “going the other way.” If that makes any sense.

[volatile]

In discussions with fundamentalists, I’ve been “accused” of being a secular humanist. It seems to be a kind of slur with them. I’m not sure which of your enumerated qualities would be most offensive, but I’d guess it’s the whole “eliminating discrimination and intolerance” thing.

Accused? That's fairly bemusing - I'd say it's an all-positive belief system. If you've already professed to not subscribing to a deity, humanism is basically just a way of living in a very positive, active manner.

Part of the purpose of this thread, though, is to see if someone can offer me that one dogma I haven’t yet encountered which sparks the undiscovered light in my eyes, so to speak. So while I agree with the majority of your list, I’m trying, in this exercise, to leave the door open to “going the other way.” If that makes any sense.


So no $1000 for me then? Drat! You'll never find something that's totally new, but I hope I've a least outlined a totally positive belief system that, unlike pretty much every single other "religion", has zero negative tenets other than the lack of belief in a supernatural god (and in humanism, of course, this lack of belief is construed as an entirely positive thing, facilitating a wonderfully optimistic way of seeing the world).

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Very tricky. I suppose I’m a member of your church now. However, since I don’t believe in it, I don’t consider myself properly converted.

No problem. We don't require that you believe anything but since you accept the fact that you are a member you can just send the admission donation. 1000USD in small bills. Send it to Pastor Gord_in_Toronto, ULC, Toronto.

*slinks away sweating bullets*


*Exits stage left. Giggling Hystericaly. *

[Beleth]

I'll give it a try.

I'm a member of Unitarian Universalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian-Universalism). UU is a non-creedal, heretical religion which means that there isn't anything you have to believe in to join and you are encouraged to ask questions and question authority.

UU is not the One True Religion, but if there is such a thing, UU is one of the few religions that would allow you the intellectual freedom and support structure to help you find it.

eta: And I'm an atheist.I humbly submit that Ryan is already a Unitarian Universalist; he just doesnt realize it yet!

[LawnOven]

I, too, have seen that referenced, but never followed up. Thank you -- I read as much of that as my poor little brain could take. I assure you, I laughed through my pain.

You see, I think you are a Discordian and just didn't know it. :)


Edit: I totally didn't read the post above mine, I must have absorbed it through osmosis. Well you can definitely be a discordian and a UU.

[Huntster]

...The $1000 Convert Me to Your Religion Challenge ...


I'll take "Idiot on the Skeptic's Forum" for $1,000, Alex..........

[Ryan O'Dine]

I humbly submit that Ryan is already a Unitarian Universalist; he just doesnt realize it yet!

You see, I think you are a Discordian and just didn't know it. :)


Edit: I totally didn't read the post above mine, I must have absorbed it through osmosis. Well you can definitely be a discordian and a UU.

I’m getting the impression I could be a Unitarian Universalist, Discordian, Quaker, Secular Humanist, Apathetic Agnostic, and possibly Church of the Red Lobsterist, and still look at myself in the morning without seeing double.

Seriously, though, they seem to share more similarities than differences. Anyone object?



Also, I intend on closing the monetary part of the challenge at the top of this hour. Last chance, folks...

[Upchurch]

I’m getting the impression I could be a Unitarian Universalist, Discordian, Quaker, Secular Humanist, Apathetic Agnostic, and possibly Church of the Red Lobsterist, and still look at myself in the morning without seeing double.

Seriously, though, they seem to share more similarities than differences. Anyone object?



Also, I intend on closing the monetary part of the challenge at the top of this hour. Last chance, folks...
Why not become a UU and be all of them?

[Mr Clingford]

Why not become a UU and be all of them?Hey now, remember that Anglicanism/Episcopalism probably covers everything under the sun (and beyond the stars - if you're a plain atheist you're one of the straightforward ones).

[Ryan O'Dine]

Well, with this post I officially withdraw the $1000 prize. I want to thank everyone who participated, kidding and sincere alike, and to assure you all, in the words of Bodhi Dharma Zen that I have indeed “found what I wanted” -- which is to say, much to think about.

And although the monetary part of the challenge is over, if anyone wants to offer another religion for my consideration, I’ll be keeping an open mind. Post away and we’ll see if I can be converted yet.

Until then, thank you all again.

And now, the obligatory End-of-a-Challenge Banana Dance...


:bananapowerslide:

[Mr Clingford]

Damn you I wanted that money for Xmas. Glad I'm not a Quaker because that means I am allowed to hunt you down etc etc:D

Keep on thinking.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Why not become a UU and be all of them?

I’m toying with the idea of checking out the local UU church, but I’m pretty ambivalent. The fact is, I’m not really looking for a church or a community here, but more a set of ideas. My notion (correct me if I’m wrong) is that a UU church is more the former than the latter.

Another problem: I live in a town where the hilltops are populated by hardcore academics, and the valleys by just as hardcore woo. One of the mottoes of my little berg is: Ten Square Miles Surrounded by Reality. I suspect the local UU church has more valley than hilltop dwellers.

Nonetheless, I respect you, Upchurch, and may end up looking into it. No promises, though.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Damn you I wanted that money for Xmas. Glad I'm not a Quaker because that means I am allowed to hunt you down etc etc:D

Keep on thinking.

You’re allowed to hunt me down? I’m intrigued. Remind me again your religion? :D

[President Bush]

I could be a Unitarian Universalist, Discordian, Quaker, Secular Humanist, Apathetic Agnostic, and possibly Church of the Red Lobsterist, and still look at myself in the morning without seeing double.

Seriously, though, they seem to share more similarities than differences. Anyone object?
Show me the money.

No damn cat. No damn cradle.
The default position wins.

[Upchurch]

I’m toying with the idea of checking out the local UU church, but I’m pretty ambivalent. The fact is, I’m not really looking for a church or a community here, but more a set of ideas. My notion (correct me if I’m wrong) is that a UU church is more the former than the latter.
Again, depends on the congregation.

When my wife and I started looking into churches, it was primarily with the intent of finding a place to get married in. We first came to our current church during the summer which, we found out, UU's typically take off. Part of that strong academic connection, I suspect. Our church, however, use the summers as an opportunity to allow members of the congregation to give the "sermon". (I think of them more as philosophy lectures than sermons.) It was a fascinating collection of varied and different ideas and caught me right away, not because I necessarily agreed with all of them but they were (1) so different than your standard mid-western protestant sermons and (2) I really liked the exposure to such different perspectives on a veriety of subjects.

My wife really enjoys the community aspect or, probably more accurately, she enjoys the idea of the community aspect. Frankly, the community aspect sort of annoys me. I keep getting sucked into various committees because I'm young, male, and childless, which apparently means I have a lot of free time. :boggled:

I've been meaning to start a thread/write a paper about the positive value of continued religious exploration for a skeptical atheist as a means of honing critical thinking skills concerning subjective truths.

Another problem: I live in a town where the hilltops are populated by hardcore academics, and the valleys by just as hardcore woo. One of the mottoes of my little berg is: Ten Square Miles Surrounded by Reality. I suspect the local UU church has more valley than hilltop dwellers.
Can't help you there. The congregation determines the nature of the particular UU church. If the congregation is woo, the church will be woo. If you know anyone in the hardcore academic community, ask them if they can point you in the right direction.

[Dave1001]

Not collecting stamps. I submit it is a religion, because like all religions, we have a fanatical hatred of non-believers (also known as stamp collectors) that will only be quelled when they are all either converted or killed.

[Upchurch]

Not collecting stamps. I submit it is a religion, because like all religions, we have a fanatical hatred of non-believers (also known as stamp collectors) that will only be quelled when they are all either converted or killed.
or to use the proper jargon, "stamped".

[Darth Rotor]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert.

Primus: the internet is a sub optimal medium for spreading the Word, be it the Word of God, the Word of Allah as related to the Prophet, the Word of the FSM, the Tao, or the Word of the Oak Tree. Conversion works "mo bettah" in the flesh.

Perversion likewise. :)

Secundus: Faith is superior to religion.

DR

[Ryan O'Dine]

I've been meaning to start a thread/write a paper about the positive value of continued religious exploration for a skeptical atheist as a means of honing critical thinking skills concerning subjective truths.

I’d be interested in seeing this, whatever form it took.

And thanks for all the UU info. Much appreciated. If the church down here is as Funkosophic as yours, it may well be worthwhile.

Not collecting stamps. I submit it is a religion, because like all religions, we have a fanatical hatred of non-believers (also known as stamp collectors) that will only be quelled when they are all either converted or killed.
I didn’t want to prejudice people earlier, but IMO religions based upon fanatical hatred, forced conversions, and killing deserve preferential consideration.

Plus, I don’t collect stamps, so it’s got that going for it.

Primus: the internet is a sub optimal medium for spreading the Word, be it the Word of God, the Word of Allah as related to the Prophet, the Word of the FSM, the Tao, or the Word of the Oak Tree. Conversion works "mo bettah" in the flesh.
DR
No doubt. But it seemed worth a try.

And what is this Oak Tree you speak of...?? :)

[Antiquehunter]

There are no holy days. There are no rituals to perform.

You know - maybe this is the problem with atheism. We need some 'un-holy' days (perhaps 'absence of holy' is a better term) and a couple of rituals.

Mr Clingford - I disagree with your comment:

Wrong!

There may be doctrine but you don't have to sign anything or say or believe anything you don't want to, and that includes believing in Jesus too, for some. It's a broad church!

There is a strong grassroots movement in the Anglican church (in Canada anyways) to go back to basics. They wish to divide the church over issues like same-sex marriage, women in the priesthood etc... I'm pretty sure you have to believe in Jesus to be a part of this charming group. If you need evidence, you can talk to my father.

[Zygar]

You know - maybe this is the problem with atheism. We need some 'un-holy' days (perhaps 'absence of holy' is a better term) and a couple of rituals.

I agree. We need some holidays of our own to lord over our colleagues as an excuse to take some random day off work for "irreligious reasons".

[Mr Clingford]

Mr Clingford - I disagree with your comment: Wrong!

There may be doctrine but you don't have to sign anything or say or believe anything you don't want to, and that includes believing in Jesus too, for some. It's a broad church!



There is a strong grassroots movement in the Anglican church (in Canada anyways) to go back to basics. They wish to divide the church over issues like same-sex marriage, women in the priesthood etc... I'm pretty sure you have to believe in Jesus to be a part of this charming group. If you need evidence, you can talk to my father.True, but as I said Anglicanism is a broad church so there are the people you describe at one end and those who don't believe God exists at the other. Makes it fun - but, of course, I would be incredibly surprised if they attended the same services.

[SirPhilip]

If you can convince me that yours is The One True Religion*, then I will give you US$1000 prize money, and do whatever it takes to convert. Hither and yawn. Screw religion, I want to see more creativity than this around here; you know it's the closest thing anyone can get to the sublime in this bittersweet, freezing black hole. Hey, does that count?

[Ladewig]

This religion is called January1976ism and is named after the basic proof that God exists. If one examines the January 1976 issue of Playboy magazine, one finds a creature so stunningly beautiful that only a benevolent Creator could have invented a world in which she exists.

It is a simple religion, really. Tastful pornography is, of course, a sacrament. Mr. Hefner is a cardinal. Bill Clinton is a member. JFK was a bishop. Elvis in his middle years was a prophet. If one ever wonders what the January1976 church stands for on a particular issue, all one has to do is look up Pat Robertson's position on the issue and take the opposite stand.



Game, set, match.

[Ryan O'Dine]

Hither and yawn. Screw religion, I want to see more creativity than this around here; you know it's the closest thing anyone can get to the sublime in this bittersweet, freezing black hole. Hey, does that count?

Depends. Do I get Sundays off?

This religion is called January1976ism and is named after the basic proof that God exists. If one examines the January 1976 issue of Playboy magazine, one finds a creature so stunningly beautiful that only a benevolent Creator could have invented a world in which she exists.


Of course, I’d need convincing evidence that such a creature does, in fact, exist.

*waits drooling by the mailbox*

[Darth Rotor]

And what is this Oak Tree you speak of...?? :)
A branch cult of Entianity. :D

DR

[SirPhilip]

Depends. Do I get Sundays off? Nah.

Of course, I’d need convincing evidence that such a creature does, in fact, exist. Even if, by converting to January1976ism, you always get off Sundays?