What rights would exist in a perfect society?

[athon]

What rights would exist in a perfect society?

I know we've touched on this in one form or another, bu I'm curious to see what correlates with what nations. America, as a stereotype, is big on freedom to do anything - freedom of speech, freedom to do whatever-the-hell-you-wish. But does it go deeper than this? Where does freedom start and stop? Could we say a more basic right is to not be adversely affected by another human being? That in itself impinges on freedom, but 'adverse' is a subjective term in itself.

Other countries have other basic rights - the right to be educated, for instance. We had at high-school 'the right to a hassle-free day' (as stated by our principal). Australia seems to relish the 'right to a fair go', or equal judgement, which in itself is often seen as battling for the underdog.

Any opinions on what basic human rights are?

Athon

[Gem]

basic human rights

If you ask me, there are no such things as "human rights." I think they are priviligies that we pay for through taxes and elected officials who make sure (sometimes not) that we have those priviligies.

Definitions aside, I think the most important right humans could have is the right to live happilly. Freedom of speech is not neccessary if you're happy.

Gem

[Ladewig]

Definitions aside, I think the most important right humans could have is the right to live happilly. Freedom of speech is not neccessary if you're happy.

An extreme example
Citizen A: [walking down the street, talking to himself] Do, de, do, boy-o-boy am I happy. I've never been so happy in my life.

Citizen B: Excuse me, you look pretty happy, would you tell me the secret to being happy?

Citizen A: Sure, the secret to being happy is simply a matter of never, ever....

Police officer: Excuse me, sir, you are under arrest because it is against the law to discuss the secret to being happy. Please come with me.
___________________
There are about a dozen countries in the world where criticizing the current adminstration is agains the law. I don't care what incentives those countries offer me, I could never be happy in a place where expressing one's opinions about the government is illegal.


My list: (in no order)

No secret trials/no secret imprisionments
Fair judicial system (everything in U.S. Constitution amendments 4-8)
No undue burdens on starting a political party or running for office
Everything listed in the U.S.C. first amendment (applies to citizens, visitors, and immigrants, but not corporations)
No soldiers quartered in homes (seems pretty obvious but the East Timorese don't have that right)
No laws against burning flags
No slavery/no debtors prison
Private property and civil court system to protect it
Review of government documents
Some type of fair mechanism for removing criminals from office
Legal redress for discrimination
Free education at least to age 13.
No tax rates over 40%
No laws against private consenual adult sex (legal pornography, prostitution, sodomy - oh, what the heck: government-subsidized pornography, prostitution, sodomy)

So, who wants to live in Ladetopia?

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Gem


If you ask me, there are no such things as "human rights." I think they are priviligies that we pay for through taxes and elected officials who make sure (sometimes not) that we have those priviligies.

Definitions aside, I think the most important right humans could have is the right to live happilly. Freedom of speech is not neccessary if you're happy.

Gem I guess 'xxxxxx' (insert whatever) is not necessary as long as you're happy?

I cannot agree. Sometimes the lack of xxxxxxx will make some people happy at the cost of the unhappy ones.

Personally I think the right to seek happiness is an important one, even if others are happy already. :p

[corplinx]

The right to have your ass whipped for acting like a jackass.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Ladewig

No tax rates over 40%

A small problem with this. Suppose Ladetopia was so good that the average citizen had 100 times the earning power of any other country. Suppose that the cost of setting up such a government meant 90% taxes. You would still have ten times the earning power of any other country.

Though the numbers are not so extreme, this is a bit like what we have in the US. Our consumer power is higher than most countries in the world, and would be even if our taxes were doubled. The costs of living in a developed country are high, but so are the rewards. Would any US citizen be willing to exchange their citizenship for the priviledge of living in a barren wasteland or a war-torn country with no taxes?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Tricky

A small problem with this. Suppose Ladetopia was so good that the average citizen had 100 times the earning power of any other country. Suppose that the cost of setting up such a government meant 90% taxes. You would still have ten times the earning power of any other country.


Who created this government where the earning power is so high that it requires 90% taxes, Gray Davis?

The only way I can see a scenario approaching this one is if everyone works for the government and you have a 10% deficit.

I don't mind paying more if it means better schools, roads, police, fire, stronger military etc. I do mind if it's just to line some bureaucrat's pockets for some bloated regulatory agency.

[athon]

I think sometimes the government incentive of 'lowering taxes' only ever ropes in fools and idiots. Which is why it works in getting so many votes.

As long as the taxes aren't extravagent, are fair and are put to good use, I'm happy to pay them.

In my opinion, my form of utopia as far as a system of rights are concerned would involve free education, a focus on affordable healthcare and transparent governing. Strangely, it would also involve unbiased media, but I think that is stretching things in terms of reality.

Athon

[Ladewig]

I am going to remove the requirement for a specific limit on the tax rate. I realized that if, say, 40% were the highest tax rate and then an opportunity to create world peace, cure cancer, and teach critical thinking became available but would cost extra money, then it would be worthwhile to raise the tax rate. Defining the taxes in such a society is the tricky bit.