Christians who think the world revolves around Christianity

[pgwenthold]

From a letter to the editor in the local paper

If we did not have Christmas, what would we do during the month of December? Should we just abolish the Christmas season? Would we be better off not having all the merriment, parties, family get-togethers, wonderful music, beautiful trees and decorations, parades, etc.? Would we have all these things if not for the birth of Christ?

Wow.

For some reason, I think the easiest response is just to provide the lyrics to that great "christmas" song...


Deck the halls with boughs of holly, Fa la la la la la la la!
'Tis the season to be jolly, Fa la la la la la la la!
Don we now our gay apparel, Fa la la la la la la la!
Troll the ancient Yuletide carol, Fa la la la la la la la!

See the blazing yule before us, Fa la la la la la la la!
Strike the harp and join the chorus, Fa la la la la la la la!
Follow me in merry measure, Fa la la la la la la la!
While I tell of Yuletide treasure, Fa la la la la la la la!

Fast away the old year passes, Fa la la la la la la la!
Hail the new, ye lads and lasses, Fa la la la la la la la!
Sing we joyous all together! Fa la la la la la la la!
Heedless of the wind and weather, Fa la la la la la la la!


Yeah, what would we do without the birth of Jesus to celebrate? Not sure what trees and parades have to do with Jesus's birth, BTW.

Happy returns of the day!

[Ryan O'Dine]

The phrases “Christian Nationalist,” and “Christian Supremacist” had seemed to me the overblown blatherings of a few left-wing nutbloggers when I first heard them. But I’m less and less sure they can be so easily dismissed.

Just today NPR had a story on This American Life about a Muslim family that was torn apart after 9/11 due largely to the efforts of a Christian teacher in their daughter’s public school. The teacher was shoveling Christianity down the kids’ throats (candy canes are in the shape of a “J” for Jesus, and the red stripes represent his blood sacrifice), and basically encouraging the harassment of the daughter.

The Dept. of Justice was brought in, and a settlement was reached, so even if the story wasn’t 100% accurate, it wasn’t 100% false.

So, yeah, with the war on Christmas back in action, and the argument that the Founding Fathers envisioned this as a Christian nation showing no signs of losing momentum, I’m starting to wonder if those phrases aren’t pretty apt after all.

[Moon-Spinner]

There are plenty of holidays that have nothing to do with Christianity, is the writer forgetting about those? Then there are those of us that celebrate the holiday season with enthusiastic merriment but without a stitch of religion injected into it (well, we recognize the religious beginnings of some the holiday traditions – Christian, Pagan, etc. – but we view it as purely folk tales, much like the story of Rudolph the reindeer).

I’ve met a few Christians who have never stepped out of their bubble, and can’t imagine a world that doesn’t revolve around their religion. Of course, they will believe any new myth that comes along which puts their belief at center stage (ie: Candy Canes representing Christ). It’s unlikely that they’ll believe that any Christmas traditions had non-Christian roots.

I also know plenty of Jewish people that celebrate the holiday with all the gusto and trappings that the rest of us do. They put up trees, and give gifts, but they view the holiday in a very secular way. I guess they figured that if the Christians can adopt a Pagan holiday, then so can they. Don’t ask me to explain this in any detail, I never asked many questions, I just thought it was cool.

Oh well, Ho Ho Hum, Merry Christmas...

[Meri]

I was going to put this in its own thread but it fits well here: The New York Times has discovered that atheists celebrate Christmas. (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/17/weekinreview/17kennedy.html?_r=3&ref=weekinreview&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin) Ethier the writer is just pretending this comes as a huge surprise, or he's been living in some kind of bubble, because, as Dawkins says in the article, Christmas is so secularized very few atheists feel like celebrating it is a contradiction. Besides, Christians seem to forget that Christmas was a pagan holiday first, that was adopted by the Christians. If there was no Christianity, we could still have trees and presents. Maybe even Santa Claus, since he isn't part of the original Christmas mythology.

[rachaella]

Exactly, I love Christmas. I am most definitely not a Christian. I probably love Christmas more than most Christians I know. I love shopping, trees, gift giving, baking, cooking, lights, carols, etc. How much of "Christ"mas has to do with Christ anyway? Name things most often associated with christmas off the top of your head - trees, lights, candy canes, santa, rudolph, snow, presents are what I came up with. That's how jewish people can celebrate christmas.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I was going to put this in its own thread but it fits well here: The New York Times has discovered that atheists celebrate Christmas.
Say it ain't so!

Oh wait, I just returned from listening to my wife sing in her chorus's Christmas program. And that wasn't the first time this season, either.

~~ Paul

[Loss Leader]

I also know plenty of Jewish people that celebrate the holiday with all the gusto and trappings that the rest of us do. They put up trees, and give gifts, but they view the holiday in a very secular way. I guess they figured that if the Christians can adopt a Pagan holiday, then so can they. Don’t ask me to explain this in any detail, I never asked many questions, I just thought it was cool.

As a Jew, reading that paragraph made me physically ill.

[Raphael]

As an atheist, I have more fun with the modern trappings of Christmas than any Christian, because I don't have to feel guilty about not stressing the birth of Jesus component. Pass the eggnog!

[joobz]

Just today NPR had a story on This American Life about a Muslim family that was torn apart after 9/11 due largely to the efforts of a Christian teacher in their daughter’s public school. The teacher was shoveling Christianity down the kids’ throats (candy canes are in the shape of a “J” for Jesus, and the red stripes represent his blood sacrifice), and basically encouraging the harassment of the daughter
I was listening to that as well. It made me ill. The funny thing is that christian families all think that all public school teachers (especially colleges) are heathens trying to convert people to evil liberal atheism. Yet, when something like this happens, they don't see anything wrong with it. Or, even worse, they'll deny it and say that it was just propaganda trying to bring down the church.

I've heard that comment made about the catholic priest child abuse scandal (I kid you not). They blamed the "liberal media" for blowing it out of proportion.

[wollery]

As a Jew, reading that paragraph made me physically ill.As a Jew, I have no idea why. :confused:

[clarsct]

*passes eggnog to Raphael*

Happy Atheist Christmas!

Cheers!
(Yes, I spiked it:D )

[Zep]

I'll be doing what I always do on public holidays - travelling!

[pgwenthold]

There are plenty of holidays that have nothing to do with Christianity, is the writer forgetting about those? Then there are those of us that celebrate the holiday season with enthusiastic merriment but without a stitch of religion injected into it (well, we recognize the religious beginnings of some the holiday traditions – Christian, Pagan, etc. – but we view it as purely folk tales, much like the story of Rudolph the reindeer).

That's what I found so ironic about the list of activities the writer provided:

merriment, parties, family get-togethers, wonderful music, beautiful trees and decorations, parades

How many of these are result of Jesus's birthday?

Trees, decorations, and parades? Yeah, that sounds like the birthday parties I've attended...

[Darth Rotor]

As an atheist, I have more fun with the modern trappings of Christmas than any Christian, because I don't have to feel guilty about not stressing the birth of Jesus component. Pass the eggnog!
There's a traditionalist for you, partaking of the Christmas spirit(s)! :D

DR

[Upchurch]

Just this Saturday, I performed in my band's Christmas concert. I have to admit that while I hate listening to most Christmas music, I love playing it. It is one of the few genre's that will occasionally allow the tuba a melody line.

[bobcarp]

Didn’t they celebrate the winter solstice long before Jesus came around at about the same time of year (Dec 21)? Christians thought it pagan to celebrate the solstice so they just changed it to Jesus’ birth.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Can't we just be happy that most Christians these days think the world revolves at all?

[bluess]

Score one for the Dark Lord of Pith!

[Tanstaafl]

When I was a Christian I had a somehat humbuggish attitude.

Now that I'm an atheist it's full-fledged humbuggism.

No one in my immediate family is a believer either. Yet we have the tree, stockings, various decorations, and of course gifts. I'm the only one that's not into all that stuff, but I don't mind all that much. It gives me more opportunities to say "Humbug!".

[H3LL]

Christmas wouldn't be christmas without Upchurch getting a tuba reference in.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/31804586fe8e93ec3.gif (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=3182)

Traditions have to start somewhere.


.

[Meri]

Didn’t they celebrate the winter solstice long before Jesus came around at about the same time of year (Dec 21)? Christians thought it pagan to celebrate the solstice so they just changed it to Jesus’ birth.

There's a theory that the early Christians celebrated the birth of Jesus in December to replace Saturnalia, the Roman festival that took place around this time, and modern Christmas definitely takes most of its traditions from pagan winter solstice festivals.

[ponderingturtle]

There's a theory that the early Christians celebrated the birth of Jesus in December to replace Saturnalia, the Roman festival that took place around this time, and modern Christmas definitely takes most of its traditions from pagan winter solstice festivals.

Well it was even stronger before Washington Irving and Charles Dickens reworked the holiday to make it about family. Before it was a lot like Marti Gras. Probably an other holiday that people think Jesus does not have a strong enough role in.

[Tricky]

Just this Saturday, I performed in my band's Christmas concert. I have to admit that while I hate listening to most Christmas music, I love playing it. It is one of the few genre's that will occasionally allow the tuba a melody line.
Yes, you have your tubas tied to the rest of the orchestra in a process called a tuba ligation.

[Ducky]

Yes, you have your tubas tied to the rest of the orchestra in a process called a tuba ligation.

I am disappointed Tricky. That blew.

[Tricky]

I am disappointed Tricky. That blew.Maybe so, but at least it was deep.

[Meri]

Well it was even stronger before Washington Irving and Charles Dickens reworked the holiday to make it about family. Before it was a lot like Marti Gras. Probably an other holiday that people think Jesus does not have a strong enough role in.

That's probably one reason that the puritans banned Christmas (http://www.masstraveljournal.com/features/1101chrisban.html) when they founded Massachusetts:

The Puritans who immigrated to Massachusetts to build a new life had several reason for disliking Christmas. First of all, it reminded them of the Church of England and the old-world customs, which they were trying to escape. Second, they didn't consider the holiday a truly religious day. December 25th wasn't selected as the birth date of Christ until several centuries after his death. Third, the holiday celebration usually included drinking, feasting, and playing games - all things which the Puritans frowned upon.

[Ducky]

Maybe so, but at least it was deep.

yeah but the delivery was a bit brassy and long winded.

[Moon-Spinner]

Just this Saturday, I performed in my band's Christmas concert. I have to admit that while I hate listening to most Christmas music, I love playing it. It is one of the few genre's that will occasionally allow the tuba a melody line.

I'm trying to imagine "Silent Night" with a tuba going Oom Pah Pah with a polka feel to it... :p

[Upchurch]

Christmas wouldn't be christmas without Upchurch getting a tuba reference in.

I like to think of myself as an Evangelical Tuba player.


eta: 'cause, y'know. The world revolves around tuba players.

[threejr]

A recent letter to the editor of our newspaper concerned a man who almost did not drop a donation into a Salvation Army kettle because the bell ringer wished him "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". Sad.

And Upchurch-my son plays the tuba (and I just went to see him perform in his holiday ensemble)-so I personally enjoy any and all tuba references! :)

[fuelair]

Christians who think the world revolves around Christianity :

O>K> xtians, last time so let's get it straight: A)Earth rotates on its' axis (the imaginary line from pole to pole (sort of) and B) Earth revolves around the Sun (and don't let me even catch a thought of changing that "u" to an "o" on this board. There will be a quiz next class.

And it definitely doesn't revolve around You!!!

[Dark Jaguar]

I've met similar people. It's odd, because they seem to think that even atheists can't go a day without thinking about god and how much they "hate him". Granted, due to the fact I visit THIS message board, the idea is more on my mind than most, but other than the occasional topic here, I can pretty much go without even thinking of the existence of religion in my daily activities.

Anyway, happy Decemberween everybloody!

[Zygar]

When I was a Christian I had a somehat humbuggish attitude.

Now that I'm an atheist it's full-fledged humbuggism.

No one in my immediate family is a believer either. Yet we have the tree, stockings, various decorations, and of course gifts. I'm the only one that's not into all that stuff, but I don't mind all that much. It gives me more opportunities to say "Humbug!".

I love to say "Humbug!" It's always been my swear word of choice for situations where swearing is taboo. But I don't apply it to Xmas because I love Xmas! Although Jesus is banned from my house, so there is no nativity scene.

[Darth Rotor]

Well it was even stronger before Washington Irving and Charles Dickens reworked the holiday to make it about family. Before it was a lot like Marti Gras. Probably an other holiday that people think Jesus does not have a strong enough role in.
Is that due to his not flashing his breasts? :confused:

DR

[Darth Rotor]

A recent letter to the editor of our newspaper concerned a man who almost did not drop a donation into a Salvation Army kettle because the bell ringer wished him "Happy Holidays" rather than "Merry Christmas". Sad.

And Upchurch-my son plays the tuba (and I just went to see him perform in his holiday ensemble)-so I personally enjoy any and all tuba references! :)
Mine as well. Upchurch, rock the Tuba! :) Are you also an Opus fan, Bloom County? He played heavy metal . . . tuba. :D

DR

[Morrigan]

I love shopping, trees, gift giving, baking, cooking, lights, carols, etc.
Let's see... celebrating of capitalism, free trade, abundance and prosperity, good food and merry pleasures. Yep, as unChrist-like as it gets. Closer to paganism, for sure. :D

I hate shopping, but I do enjoy the rest of christmas. Especially the days off and the gluttony.

[Upchurch]

Mine as well. Upchurch, rock the Tuba! :) Are you also an Opus fan, Bloom County? He played heavy metal . . . tuba. :D
Enough of a fan to know the punchline: "Weighty brass."

[Foster Zygote]

Greatest... band... ever!

[pgwenthold]

Nah, it's Billy and the Boingers

"Hey, hey, we're the Boingers
Cause people say we're boinging around"

[Marc L]

eta: 'cause, y'know. The world revolves around tuba players.

Wow. That actually explains...a lot.

Marc

[pgwenthold]

OK, the lunacy gets even worse...

It's sad that those of us who are Christians have allowed the celebration of the nativity of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ to be watered down to the point that even atheists view it as an opportunity for "merrymaking." Why have we let a feast day of the church become connected to parties where people drink to excess and to all manner of commercialism?


Yeah, how dare those christians allow others to come in a usurp THEIR holiday!


BTW, this letter was written by a "Rev. Deacon..."

Happy Solstace to All! Many Happy Returns of the Day!

[Z]

Just this Saturday, I performed in my band's Christmas concert. I have to admit that while I hate listening to most Christmas music, I love playing it. It is one of the few genre's that will occasionally allow the tuba a melody line.


Omigod, you're Opus???

4655

[DangerousBeliefs]

What are you people talking about?

I was just add the store... they're putting up St. Valentine's Day.

Happy St. Valentine's Day everybody!

[pgwenthold]

What are you people talking about?

I was just add the store... they're putting up St. Valentine's Day.



It's part of the secularist war on christmas.

[Meri]

It's part of the secularist war on christmas.

yes, there's nothing we secularists love more than the commercialized worship of saints.

[Tanstaafl]

Yeah, I love the way Christians complain if the stores don't have xmas decorations, wish shoppers a merry xmas, feature christmas in their advertising, etc., and then get indignant that christmas has become commercialized and secularized.

Be careful what you wish for, folks.

[pgwenthold]

"We all know that Christmas is a big commercial racket. It's run by an eastern syndicate, you know."

Said by Lucy to Charlie Brown. In the cartoon made in 19friggin66!

That's 40 years ago that they were complaining about how Christmas is too commercial.

As Linus says,
"Not only is Christmas getting too commercial, it's getting too dangerous."

I'm beginning to think that the complaints about christmas being too commercial are like the complaints about not have enough good left handing pitching in baseball. "Two things in baseball that have always been true: the owners have never made money, and there's never enough left handed pitching."

[pgwenthold]

Yeah, I love the way Christians complain if the stores don't have xmas decorations, wish shoppers a merry xmas, feature christmas in their advertising, etc., and then get indignant that christmas has become commercialized and secularized.

Be careful what you wish for, folks.

In the quote I posted, I think the biggest irony is that the guy had the nerve to claim that the christians shouldn't let the atheists join in their celebration, in a letter published on the Winter Solstace!

[SFB]

...
That's 40 years ago that they were complaining about how Christmas is too commercial.
...


You can go back much further than that,

http://www.westwoodone.com/pg/jsp/osgood/transcript.jsp?pid=12390

Osgood brings up Saturnalia too...

[Meri]

In the quote I posted, I think the biggest irony is that the guy had the nerve to claim that the christians shouldn't let the atheists join in their celebration, in a letter published on the Winter Solstace!

How does he plan to stop atheists from celebrating Christmas? Get a list of atheists from. . .somewhere, and go to their houses and trash their decorations?

[Tanstaafl]

Once they put all the atheists in concentration camps it gets easier.

[pgwenthold]

How does he plan to stop atheists from celebrating Christmas? Get a list of atheists from. . .somewhere, and go to their houses and trash their decorations?

Whereas I realize your question is basically rhetorical, there is an actual answer: they want to make christmas so much about Jesus that atheists wouldn't want to participate.

Again, that would require completely ignoring thousands of years of history, and completely changing the way things are done now. No more Deck the Halls...

[pgwenthold]

You can go back much further than that,

http://www.westwoodone.com/pg/jsp/osgood/transcript.jsp?pid=12390

Osgood brings up Saturnalia too...


That's a really good one. I think a lot of old christians probably like Charles Osgood. Maybe they can learn.