Biblical literalists believe in unicorns?

[Questioninggeller]

This is good, watch Kent Hovind (http://www.kent-hovind.com/) explain his Biblical belief in unicorns.

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and dragons

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Unicorns, dragons, and bears oh my!

[exarch]

Yes, startling evidence that dinosaurs lived alongside man: People in the middle east mention very strong, one-horned creatures and call them "unicorns", and he never even thinks about rhinos.

Then the next film is about long-necked creatures, again mostly in the middle east, and he never even considers giraffes.

I'm surprised the bible doesn't mention anything elephant-like, or perhaps it does and they kinda recognized the description because it was too obvious and unlike any kind of dinosaur.

As far as legends about heroes killing dragons goes, perhaps some people could do with a viewing of "brotherhood of the wolf (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0237534/)" for a bit of a reality check concerning how legends are formed. If you have to rely on frightened, superstitious medieval farmers for the details of the story, you're screwed.

[Cuddles]

So does this mean there really is a dragon in my garage?

[Ysidro]

So does this mean there really is a dragon in my garage?

Yes but we call it a "giraffe." ;)

[Cuddles]

Yes but we call it a "giraffe." ;)

So, wait, you're telling me there's a giraffe in my garage? I really have to clean it out more often.

[Marc L]

So, wait, you're telling me there's a giraffe in my garage? I really have to clean it out more often.

I'll say, I can smell the hippogriff poop all the way over here. :rolleyes:

Marc

[Tricky]

So, wait, you're telling me there's a giraffe in my garage? I really have to clean it out more often.Not your fault. They're very quiet.

[bluess]

Not your fault. They're very quiet.

If you can ignore them chewing acacia leaves with their mouths open.

What I want to know is how Cuddles missed the acacia grove in the garage.

[Marc L]

If you can ignore them chewing acacia leaves with their mouths open.

What I want to know is how Cuddles missed the acacia grove in the garage.

It's hidden behind the giraffes, that's how.

Marc

[Kopji]

An alternate theory for the orgin of the Unicorn legends is a mideastern Ibex. These are sort of a cross between mountain goat and antelope. Although they have two horns, they look like a single horn unless they are facing you directly.

The Ibex has been considered sacred in the mideast for long time, and would better match descriptions of 'leaping' and being wild. They also had the misfortune of being a source of bezoar stones, thought to cure all sorts of ailments. Unicorn legends contain similar tales of various healing properties.

The Phoenix Zoo specializes in breeding these, and worth a visit if in the area.

Most of the dragon pictures look like big dogs wearing armor to me.

[Zep]

IIRC, the notion of dragons came from China, or more accurately, the Gobi area of China. It is thought the the early discovery of giant animal bones, which we now recognise as fossil reptiles, led to the proposition that these were the remains of mythical "dragons". And of course, they HAD to have breathed fire and have been scary, being so big, OK?

From there, the story spread along the trade routes - to the Middle East, Near East, etc. Which is why St George had to go there to slay dragons (i.e. during the crusades).

Incidentally, it's not much further use trying to convince us Kent Hovind is a sandwich short of a picnic. It's now all too obvious that he is completely bats**t insane, for all intents and purposes. But I do still like to read these stories! :D

[Questioninggeller]

Incidentally, it's not much further use trying to convince us Kent Hovind is a sandwich short of a picnic. It's now all too obvious that he is completely bats**t insane, for all intents and purposes. But I do still like to read these stories! :D

If I was trying to demonstrate Hovind was insane I would supply all of his conspiracy quotes about the "New World Order," Jews, 9/11, the Loch Ness Monster, Catholic church, and UFOs.

This on the other hand is funny. He insists on following the King James version which translates the text as "Unicorn," but if he followed the New International version its an "ox." And the fact that he linked it to dinosaurs instead of rhinos is icing on the cake.

Maybe Hovind should have taken an insanity plea? Too incompetent to stand trial?

[Zep]

If I was trying to demonstrate Hovind was insane I would supply all of his conspiracy quotes about the "New World Order," Jews, 9/11, the Loch Ness Monster, Catholic church, and UFOs. Oh yes, please do! I know some of them, but there's always room for one more! :)

This on the other hand is funny. He insists on following the King James version which translates the text as "Unicorn," but if he followed the New International version its an "ox." And the fact that he linked it to dinosaurs instead of rhinos is icing on the cake.Indeedy diddley-doo. Bible scholarship, real book-larnin' bible scholarship, is not his strongest suit.

Although I still harbour a sneaking suspicion that all this "dinosaur" stuff he blathers on about to get attention was simply to draw more paying customers to his (now failed) Dinosaur-land venture...

Maybe Hovind should have taken an insanity plea? Too incompetent to stand trial?Wouldn't that mean he would need to spend a long time in some institution somewhere receiving psychiatric drugs? Maybe he listened to his attorney for once at that point... ;)

[Questioninggeller]

Oh yes, please do! I know some of them, but there's always room for one more! :)

http://www.kent-hovind.com/quotes/conspiracy.htm has some ones that will leave you wondering what if Hovind does narcotics.


Although I still harbour a sneaking suspicion that all this "dinosaur" stuff he blathers on about to get attention was simply to draw more paying customers to his (now failed) Dinosaur-land venture...

I think that's part of it. Hovind sells homeschool "courses" for children and "college" students. Many children have interest in dinosaurs. Thus, making your material and stage name related to it is appealing to kids for indoctrination (assuming Hovind believes his own claims) and getting the children to request his material from their parents.

On a side note, http://66.210.33.206/oiscript/oiget.asp?name=Hovind&alias=&ACTION=+++++++++++++++++++++++Search++++++++++++++ +++++++++ lists his booking information and photo.

[Cuddles]

http://www.kent-hovind.com/quotes/conspiracy.htm has some ones that will leave you wondering what if Hovind does narcotics.

I wonder how well he knows David Icke?

Although worryinglyI think the Mark of the Beast technology is here. Thousands, if not even a few million, already have the chip embedded in their body. I think we are much closer than we realise to that technology becoming mandatory. All we need is one more big catastrophe which they will engineer and "Oh, everyone come down and get a microchip. We've got too many illegal aliens and, you know, too many terrorists crossing the borderisn't far from the truth, in Britain at least.

[Zep]

I actually had a (short) email conversation with him to see how cogent he was on describing his $250,000 Challenge rules. It was at that point I realised he is stark raving bonkers - he could not spin a straight story about it, contradicted himself, and his own website-published "rules". (Summary: You can never win the challenge because (a) there are NO rules, (b) so Kent makes them up as he goes along, and (c) Kent ain't got the money. Think Calvinball for loonies.)

[exarch]

Although worryinglyI think the Mark of the Beast technology is here. Thousands, if not even a few million, already have the chip embedded in their body. I think we are much closer than we realise to that technology becoming mandatory. All we need is one more big catastrophe which they will engineer and "Oh, everyone come down and get a microchip. We've got too many illegal aliens and, you know, too many terrorists crossing the borderisn't far from the truth, in Britain at least.

Oh bollocks. Apparently, identity cards aren't even mandatory in the UK (or at least carrying them around with you at all times), and you're already worried they're going to make everyone implant a chip?

I saw a televised debate once, where people said they didn't want ID-cards with microchips in them because "the government can use them to track you from outer space" or something like that. And these are probably the same kind of people who don't even think twice about getting rid of their cell-phone, which is a much better tracking device.

I applaud the new microchip ID-cards we have in Belgium. Not only is personal information no longer visibly printed on the card where just anyone can read it, but it means those government instances that actually need your data don't have to waste all that time copying it from the card, (or me having to fill out a form), now they just put the card in a chip reader and presto. I can even use my electronic identity on the internet. That opens up a whole range of possibilities.

And personally, I think an implanted microchip is even better than one in your ID. Because it's much harder to steal it, and if for some reason you're dead (I don't know, the World Trade Center falls on your head for example, or the bus around you explodes), you can stil be easily identified. And then I haven't even mentioned traveling and needing to get a new passport every 5 years. No more expenses like that.

The only difference I can see, is that it's no longer possible to "forget" your ID at home and then hide from the cops. Last time I needed to do that was, ... uhm, ... never :rolleyes:

[Hamradioguy]

So, wait, you're telling me there's a giraffe in my garage? I really have to clean it out more often.

My grandparents once had a giraffe run into their barn. Highly unusual for Vermont! Neither Hovind nor Demon Rum was responsible, however. A nearby travelling circus and a not too secure cage was all it took. Rational thinking and some detective work to the rescue.

[inha]

I just finished watching "evolution vs. creationism" debate between Hovind and Michael Shermer. I found it from Video Google and had over two hours of (oddly amusing) quality time and some severe bursts of laughter every time the deranged dunderhead Hovind spoke.

Besides all the fun he unintentionally caused, I also got quite sad because most people in the audience were obviously taking him seriously.. and ignoring all the rationality Shermer tried to share.

[MosheJW]

Ho boy... seems like all I can do around here is complain about poor biblical translations.
"Re-em" in Hebrew has nothing to do with unicorn. It is a known spices and the name is still used today. I can't post a link yet, but wiki "Oryx" and you will see a picture of the "unicorn".
In some of the references the translation was even worse, and in Hebrew isn't even a "reem" the animal, but the language is way to cryptic for me there so I can't translate the references Job and Psalms. I can assure that it doesn't say "unicorn", though.

[exarch]

Thanks MosheJW, that was interesting.

[CynicalSkeptic]

I can't post a link yet, but wiki "Oryx" and you will see a picture of the "unicorn".

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/12/Gemsbok1.jpg/450px-Gemsbok1.jpg

Looks more like a Binicorn to me.

seems like all I can do around here is complain about poor biblical translations.Don't you know that the KJV is the One True English Translation? Infallible in any way???!?!?!?


Interestingly, most other English translations use Oxen, not Oryx, at least for Isaiah 34:7.
Here (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah%2034:7;&version=9;) is the KJV, just pick your favorite version to view other translations. Oooh, Darby uses buaffaloes.

[TsarBomba]

I'm surprised the bible doesn't mention anything elephant-like, or perhaps it does and they kinda recognized the description because it was too obvious and unlike any kind of dinosaur.



Shouldn't that be a "pink elephant' in this case of this jackass?

[David Swidler]

Ho boy... seems like all I can do around here is complain about poor biblical translations.

Tell me about it. :rolleyes:

"Re-em" in Hebrew has nothing to do with unicorn. It is a known spices and the name is still used today. I can't post a link yet, but wiki "Oryx" and you will see a picture of the "unicorn".
In some of the references the translation was even worse, and in Hebrew isn't even a "reem" the animal, but the language is way to cryptic for me there so I can't translate the references Job and Psalms. I can assure that it doesn't say "unicorn", though.

To be sure, the modern use of the term "re-em" is more specific than the biblical use. In biblical Hebrew it doesn't necessarily denote a specific species. Frequently it's used in literary or poetic fashion to evoke majestic imagery - think of a gazelle, oryx or ibex with an impressive set of antlers or horns. There's a reason the Hebrew word "keren" means both "horn" (literally) and "pride."

Hmm. Hey, that's cognate with the "corn" of "unicorn." Cool.

[Thinktoomuch]

IIRC, the notion of dragons came from China, or more accurately, the Gobi area of China. It is thought the the early discovery of giant animal bones, which we now recognise as fossil reptiles, led to the proposition that these were the remains of mythical "dragons". And of course, they HAD to have breathed fire and have been scary, being so big, OK?

From there, the story spread along the trade routes - to the Middle East, Near East, etc. Which is why St George had to go there to slay dragons (i.e. during the crusades).



Hi Zep, sorry for following you around, I am not a stalker!:D
I read many years ago (National Geographic?) that the animals killed by St George and other assorted knights were actually Komodo "dragons", now extinct in the region, and that the "fire breath" legend was born because of their foul spit carrying highly toxic bacteria. This theory sems to be supported by ancient paintings, when allowance is made for mediaeval imagery, but of course this could be a case of reverse engineering. Aren't the Chinese dragons too different to make a connection, though?

[Cuddles]

Hi Zep, sorry for following you around, I am not a stalker!:D
I read many years ago (National Geographic?) that the animals killed by St George and other assorted knights were actually Komodo "dragons", now extinct in the region, and that the "fire breath" legend was born because of their foul spit carrying highly toxic bacteria. This theory sems to be supported by ancient paintings, when allowance is made for mediaeval imagery, but of course this could be a case of reverse engineering. Aren't the Chinese dragons too different to make a connection, though?

St. George (http://www.britannia.com/history/stgeorge.html) did not kill a dragon. Not even a Komodo one. The legend started several hundred years after his death and only became popular because of similar Anglo-Saxon legends. Most dragon legends have the same source, there is no need to try to come up with a rational explanation for dragons. They are made up. The story of a hero in shining armour defeating dragon/monster/commies/Germans/Disney does not need a rational explanation, it is simply a made-up, feel-good story that can be found in pretty much every single culture that has ever existed (or at least a couple of them that I know of).

[Thinktoomuch]

Hi Cuddles. Can't understand your signature tag, I thought that Christmas was the time people of all religions worshipped consumerism...:D No argument that there is no "need" to find the history behind legends, but isn't it what historians do? I was only telling Zep that that theory sounded to me more realistic than a connection to Asian dragon legends. I won't even be upset if you told me that all history is useless conjecture anyway... we all know that we are too stupid for learning from our mistakes!:) (any Iraq/Vietnam similarity is purely coincidental...)