We evolved capacity to solve Quantum Theory?

[cyborg]

You have nothing but your hand waving as expected. As useless as every other armchair philosopher before you.

[PixyMisa]

The first problems a materialist encounters are the separation of bio-life from not-life

Merely a question of degree. You can make a hard-and-fast determination, but that's a question of definitions - of language, of terminology - and has no bearing on materialism as a metaphysical system.

and at the other end of the scale Hard Problem of Consciousness.HPC isn't a problem to materialism at all. The apparent problem only arises when idealists (or dualists) project their concepts onto a materialist framework. There is a contradiction, because the very concepts they are using are meaningless under materialsm.

Qualia, for example. The entire notion of qualia is incoherent in materalism, so the answer to the question Why do qualia exist? is They don't.

Likewise P-Zombies. Under materialism, we are P-Zombies. And P-Zombies are conscious beings. Since P-Zombies are defined not to be conscious, again we find that the concept is simply meaningless under materialism. You can argue the question all day in idealist or dualist metaphysics, but under materialism, the discussion is likely to be very short.

[Beerina]

The first problems a materialist encounters are the separation of bio-life from not-life

Merely a question of degree. You can make a hard-and-fast determination, but that's a question of definitions - of language, of terminology - and has no bearing on materialism as a metaphysical system.

From a physics standpoint, the question is moot. While it's nice to classify this complex reaction as life and that as not, from a physics or materialist viewpoint, it's irrelevant. From a physics standpoint, there's nothing special about life. It's just another physicall process. Very complex perhaps, but just physical nonetheless.

I recall discussing this issue with some guy 20 years ago. I claimed life was just an engineering problem, but he was convinced there was some "spark of life" or some such involved.

[hammegk]

What illustrative examples of "Assume Materialism=True ... blather ... see? Materialism=True".

Thanks.

[Z]

The more we venture into the unknown, the more the lines between idealism and materialism seem to blend. Of course, that works both ways. Eventually, even if idealism is true, the idealist may have to concede that the mind is nothing but an emergent property of a physical brain. Even if the foundations are more ideal than material, the mind arises as such from a physical arrangement of ideal quanta...

And so forth.

I guess, in the end, the only separation between idealism and materialism is going to be what the lowest layer actually is; at some layer, it all equals out..

[hammegk]

The more we venture into the unknown, the more the lines between idealism and materialism seem to blend. Of course, that works both ways.
When you can fit concepts like freewill, intent and design into materialism I'd agree. :)


Eventually, even if idealism is true, the idealist may have to concede that the mind is nothing but an emergent property of a physical brain. Even if the foundations are more ideal than material, the mind arises as such from a physical arrangement of ideal quanta...
What we perceive as minds require what we perceive as brains & the body carrying it around. Perhaps brains are amplifiers? Concentrators?

Emergent minds? Not under idealism.


I guess, in the end, the only separation between idealism and materialism is going to be what the lowest layer actually is; at some layer, it all equals out..
Nah. One still needs to choose, or argue from dualism.

[Dancing David]

What illustrative examples of "Assume Materialism=True ... blather ... see? Materialism=True".

Thanks.


What makes life special? Choice?

But we can't prove the world to be determined or free, so a matter of choice?

[Dancing David]

When you can fit concepts like freewill, intent and design into materialism I'd agree. :)




I can't agree, I think that materialism has latitude in self reverberating neural networks to allow for the possibility of free will. Because of the 'bettery fly effect' or sensitive dependance on initial conditions, I think that even if the universe is just the interplay and dance of dead energy, brain have enough fudge factors that if you were to reset the system and match the initial condition the clockwork can reach very different states. So perhaps not determined in the sense of locked outcomes.I don't see why dead self organising structures can have intent or provide for the capacity to design.

As i said when a computer or set of nano machines evidence the qualities of consciousness or life I will refer to them as such.

David the M-zombie.