Alger Hiss - founders of the U.N.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

This is hilarious, if you didn't know already.

Alger Hiss played a major part in founding the U.N. and "liberals" still refuse to admit the damning evidence provided by Whittaker Chambers and the Venona Project (1995).

I find it fascinating that none of my teachers or history books have ever mentioned the fact that Soviet spies were major players in the Roosevelt administration while Roosevelt knew (and promoted these people).

Now I understand how the Cold War actually began and just how embarassing it is for our country to teach kids in school the opposite of the truth in history books.

Even KHRUSHCHEV admitted how important the Rosenbergs were in the USSR's development of their atomic program.

Strange that I was never taught these details in school.



http://www.nsa.gov/museum/venona.html

[CFLarsen]

Have a glass of water. You need it.

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Have a glass of water. You need it.


water is bad for you.

[Gem]

Where did this come from, anyway? No links make people on this forum grumpy.

Gem

[Nie Trink Wasser]

http://www.nsa.gov/museum/venona.html

[Gem]

I don't understand.

What does Alger Hiss has to do with it? Or the UN for that matter.

Your link provides no information about major players in FDR's administration.

Nor the "liberals" denying that anything happened.

VENONA project is counter-spying. I seriously doubt anyone is stupid to deny the US did counter-spying against the USSR.

Gem

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Gem
I don't understand.

What does Alger Hiss has to do with it? Or the UN for that matter.

Your link provides no information about major players in FDR's administration.

Nor the "liberals" denying that anything happened.

VENONA project is counter-spying. I seriously doubt anyone is stupid to deny the US did counter-spying against the USSR.

Gem

you're missing the point.

I dont have time now to debate, but others are welcome to jump in.

I'll be back later.

Here is another link for you :

http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:4n2VY0CRLRAJ:www.spartacus.schoolne t.co.uk/USAhiss.htm+roosevelt+alger+hiss+united+nations&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser
water is bad for you.

So, you never drink any kind of water, in any form? :rolleyes:

[aerocontrols]

I think you two should quit p#ssyfooting around and just get married.

(Not you Gem)

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by CFLarsen


So, you never drink any kind of water, in any form? :rolleyes:


never.

I also eat sand.

[Mike B.]

I think Daniel Weinberg's "Perjury" is a good book laying out a strong case for Hiss's guilt.

I suppose Hiss was lucky in that his chief inquisitor, Nixon later turned out to have his own problems with the truth.

As well as the fact that lots of people associated him with McCarthey's later nuttiness which did not start until 1950.

[Gem]

Not very damning.

What is the point, anyway?

Gem

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Mike B.
I suppose Hiss was lucky in that his chief inquisitor, Nixon later turned out to have his own problems with the truth.

As well as the fact that lots of people associated him with McCarthey's later nuttiness which did not start until 1950. [/B]


McCarthyism is a myth. Most of the "facts" presented about investigations into suspected Soviet Spies had no connection to McCarthy, if you actually do some research. McCarthy was never a member of the HOUSE (since he was a senator) and HUAC.


Watergate was the best way to smear to Nixon (because he was guilty) and further cover the facts about Hiss and Chambers.

"McCarthyism" is a myth to cover-up what happened before McCarthy came on the scene and the fact that Soviet spies were working in the US government. It's a fact, yet for some reason no one can accept that.


It's like having an Al-Qaeda member in our government and saying "oh, thats no big deal".

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Gem
Not very damning.

What is the point, anyway?

Gem



:rolleyes:


history books arent telling the truth about history. that's the point.

[Gem]

Oh, where does it say that FDR knew about soviet spy in his administration? I think I missed that part.

Gem

[Gem]

history books arent telling the truth about history

History books can't get too specific. Unless you wouldn't mind carrying 50 of them for the 20th century alone.

Gem

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Gem
Oh, where does it say that FDR knew about soviet spy in his administration? I think I missed that part.

Gem


learn to do some research, instead of being a dupe.


"Chambers understood the communist vision; from 1925 to 1937 it was his vision. That vision was so strong that when he broke with communism he told his wife that they were joining the "losing side" in the great struggle of the twentieth century. Two years after his break with communism, Chambers attempted to warn the Roosevelt Administration about communist infiltration of the government (the same information that he revealed to HUAC in 1948). Assistant Secretary of State Adolf Berle ’ brought Chambers’ information directly to Roosevelt, but the president refused to believe it. FDR’s response to Chambers’ information typified his administration’s lax attitude about the threat of communist subversion.

We now understand that communist infiltration of the U. S. government during the 1930s and 1940s was real and damaging.
"
http://www.unc.edu/depts/diplomat/archives_roll/2001_07-09/sempa_chambers/sempa_chambers.html

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Gem


History books can't get too specific.

Gem



oh ! That's what it's called !

Shwew....I thought maybe it had something to do with being a lie.

now I know that its just a matter of not being "too specific".

gotcha.

[Gem]

oh ! That's what it's called !

Shwew....I thought maybe it had something to do with being a lie.

now I know that its just a matter of not being "too specific".

gotcha.

That's not what I meant. What I meant was that your average history book can't explain everything that ever happened in the world through all time.

Let's take soviet spying of america as an example. Your typical high-school history book or USA history book is NOT going to provide you with every single detail there is or was. It might give examples of trials, major names (like McCarthy) and major events. If you want to know more about Soviet Espionage on America beyond Textbook value, you search the internet (like you did), references sources, etc. Alger Hiss is not a definite spy, according to your source.

Gem

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Gem


That's not what I meant. What I meant was that your average history book can't explain everything that ever happened in the world through all time.

Let's take soviet spying of america as an example. Your typical high-school history book or USA history book is NOT going to provide you with every single detail there is or was. It might give examples of trials, major names (like McCarthy) and major events. If you want to know more about Soviet Espionage on America beyond Textbook value, you search the internet (like you did), references sources, etc. Alger Hiss is not a definite spy, according to your source.

Gem


the point is that textbooks paint a general portrait of this timeperiod as "hysteria" about soviet spies. It is dishonest to exclude certain facts that prove why these things happened and how they mattered in world history. Especially as Stalin murdered millions.

the source I gave ( http://216.239.51.100/search?q=cache:4n2VY0CRLRAJ:www.spartacus.schoolne t.co.uk/USAhiss.htm+roosevelt+alger+hiss+united+nations&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 ) you was provided to give you some background on Hiss's involvement in the FDR administration and the UN........... not to give an accurate account of his treason.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by Nie Trink Wasser



McCarthyism is a myth. Most of the "facts" presented about investigations into suspected Soviet Spies had no connection to McCarthy, if you actually do some research. McCarthy was never a member of the HOUSE (since he was a senator) and HUAC.


Watergate was the best way to smear to Nixon (because he was guilty) and further cover the facts about Hiss and Chambers.

"McCarthyism" is a myth to cover-up what happened before McCarthy came on the scene and the fact that Soviet spies were working in the US government. It's a fact, yet for some reason no one can accept that.


It's like having an Al-Qaeda member in our government and saying "oh, thats no big deal".

First of all, as I said, the evidence against Hiss is overwhelming.

I don't doubt there were Soviet spys.

However, McCarthyism is a myth?

Was he right when he said the US Army was controlled by Communists in 1954? Was he not censured for his increasingly bizzare Communist conspiracy theories?

[Nie Trink Wasser]

Originally posted by Mike B.


However, McCarthyism is a myth?

Was he right when he said the US Army was controlled by Communists in 1954? Was he not censured for his increasingly bizzare Communist conspiracy theories?


all evidence provided by McCarthy was legit. If you can find an example of him being wrong please mention it here.

McCarthy has long been blamed for "naming names" and ruining people's lives that way, but if you look at the transcripts of the McCarthy hearings, he refused to names people's names outside of a private location. After the Democrats who refused to believe his claims and demanded he name the names, only then did he do so (and even then pointing out that he was being forced to name them).

McCarthy even pointed out that Annie Lee Moss was a member of the Communist party and was working the in the code room at the Pentagon (which is fact) and this is supposedly one his "conspiracy theories". ( http://www.academia.org/campus_reports/2000/january_2000_5.html )


The Hollywood 10 trials were not connected to McCarthy either.