Molly

[MickinEngland]

Here's a little tale I've woven around a Bible incident in John chapter 8 involving a woman we'll call Molly which serves as an example of how Jesus trashed the harsh bits of the Old Testament

MOLLY by Mick
Molly grew up in orphanages never knowing who her mother and father were apart from rumours about a prostitute and a Roman soldier,and by her teens she was a sad lonely little girl.

But then she discovered men liked her and bought her presents and gave her money if she smiled at them and let them love her, and it made her feel good and wanted, even if they went back to their wives afterwards..
She grew into womanhood and still liked being loved by men,but wished she could meet one who wanted to marry her and stay with her for the rest of her life, but by now her bad reputation made a lot of single men stay clear of her.

Eventually people grew tired of her and her ways, so a mob led by the snooty priestly classes kicked down her door and dragged her off by the hair to kill her with stones.
As they pulled her through the streets, people came out to jeer at her, calling her all sorts of names and punching and slapping her, but she refused to give them the satisfaction of breaking down in tears even though her lip trembled and she could feel the blood draining from her face in fear. "I've never cried in my life and i'm not going to start now" she thought.
"But where are all the men who loved me?" she wondered, "why won't one of them rescue me?"

However no-one came forward and the painful dragging through the streets continued. She felt utterly alone and sick to the stomach and wanted to cry out to the mum and dad she'd never known, but realised there was no-one to help her, so in her total despair she muttered under her breath "Oh God, please help me"..
More slaps across the head from the mob knocked her near senseless, and when she recovered her wits she found they'd thrown her on the ground at the feet of a man who she recognised as the young carpenter Jesus from Nazareth.The mob were standing around her with stones in their hands ready to kill her.

"Alright" one of them said to the young prophet, "The Old Law tells us that we must stone adulteresses to death, can you please confirm that to make it all legal and above board?"
"Sure" said the young man, "provided whoever's perfect among you throws the first stone"
Hearing this, they dropped their stones and slunk off in shame.
Then Jesus bent down and hugged Molly close to him in an embrace of such beautiful loving tenderness that she'd never experienced from any man before, and she began crying her eyes out on his shoulder.
"I know you won't want a trollop like me" she sobbed, "but I don't ever want to be on my own again.."
"You won't be" he softly whispered in her ear, "whoever comes to me I'll never turn away, I'll be with you always til the end of the world"
-----------------------------------------------------

John ch 8 -Jesus said "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there"

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/molly2.jpg

[Cosmo]

Shut up, Mick. Keep your ramblings to one thread, please.

[tkingdoll]

Alright, your flooding is getting rather tedious now. If you are trying to convert a few lost souls and I assure you that you're wasting your time.

[Lisa Simpson]

Mick, stop making a new thread for each thought that passes through your head. You already have opened 11 threads today. Stick to those.

[volatile]

Shut up, Mick. Keep your ramblings to one thread, please.

Has he even acknowledged any posts in the other threads? All I've seen him do all night is just post random non-sequitor bible quotes.

Is this all you got, Michael?

[qayak]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/molly2.jpg

Jesus H. Christ! They had velcro closures on sandals back in Jesus' day!!

[fuelair]

Thank you!!!!! Lisa!!!!

[Lisa Simpson]

Jesus H. Christ! They had velcro closures on sandals back in Jesus' day!!

It's a miracle!

[Foster Zygote]

All right, which one of you slobs left crumbs on the counter? We're infested with trolls now! I'll go get the spray.

[MickinEngland]

Mick, stop making a new thread for each thought that passes through your head. You already have opened 11 threads today. Stick to those.


Only 11? But I've not even posted my stunning Star Trek analogies yet, nor my swipes at mormons, jehovahs witnesses, fundie xtians, fairy worshippers, scientologists etc.. (sniffle)
Tell 'em Johnny -

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6341/wildoneef9.jpg

"I was just ridin' up the street when somebody jaywalked into my bike and got hurt bad, it weren't my fault"..

[Cosmo]

Only 11? But I've not even posted my stunning Star Trek analogies yet, nor my swipes at mormons, jehovahs witnesses, fundie xtians, fairy worshippers, scientologists etc.. (sniffle)

:tr:

[volatile]

Only 11? But I've not even posted my stunning Star Trek analogies yet, nor my swipes at mormons, jehovahs witnesses, fundie xtians, fairy worshippers, scientologists etc.. (sniffle)
Tell 'em Johnny -


Calm down, Michael, please.

I'd love to see how you are gonna swipe at Scientologists without undermining your own position. The funny thing is, the rise of Scientology over recent years is a perfect illustration of how all religions, yours included, are spawned...

[MickinEngland]

Calm down, Michael, please.
I'd love to see how you are gonna swipe at Scientologists without undermining your own position...

You gotta be jivin' me boy.. :)

ELECTRODES ANYONE? -
I was stopped by a young Scientologist chap while passing their Plymouth UK office and he said "Would you like to take a stress test?" I replied it sounds fun,so we went inside and he gave me an electrode to hold in each hand wired to a dial.
He then told me "think of something that makes you angry" The needle never moved. A few of his colleagues came over to help him twiddle with the knobs,because they thought the machine had packed up.
He asked me the same question again. Still no movement!
I had to explain to him that there was nothing wrong with his machine,and that because I'm a Christian,I'm cool and laidback and chilled all the time and NOTHING annoys me!
Him and his mates then tried to have a friendly theological argument with me,but I wiped the floor with 'em!
They tried to say Scientology was the answer to the worlds problems,to which I replied "But why then do you reject Jesus who preached love and compassion and peace? How can scientology be better than him?"
They couldn't answer. Huh!
I made to leave and they said "oh, take one of our books with you, its only £5" (8 dollars)
I politely declined and toddled off..
------------------------------------

[volatile]

You gotta be jivin' me boy.. :)

ELECTRODES ANYONE? -

I was thinking less of the ritual practice and more of the process of genesis of a religion. Y'know, that whoe "This guy's written this book and it says that [insert appropriate metaphysically absurd belief of choice here] and it'd be cool if we believed in it" process which leads to the creation of a religious, faith-based, guru-focussed belief system.

L. Ron Hubbard is Scientology's Saint Paul...

[Foster Zygote]

Star Trek analogies? Could this be Troy again?

[cyborg]

Different MO.

[qayak]

Different MO.

You mean different MO FO, don't you? :D

[MickinEngland]

Star Trek analogies? Could this be Troy again?

WAIT! I feel an analogy coming on!!!
We're ALL under demonic oppression every waking moment, christian or nonchristian or atheist, til the day we die.
Demons are constantly probing us to detect any personality flaws or traits that they can home in on and make flare up.
"You murdering ministers that tend on mortal thoughts" (Lady Macbeth to demons)
Satan even had a go at Jesus, saying "Hungry mate? No prob, just turn a few stones to loaves of bread!", to which Jesus replied "Take a hike bub".
The moral? - If you give in to demonic probing you give them a foot in the door of your mind which can lead to eventual possession -
"Don't give the devil a foothold" (Eph 4:27)
"Resist the devil and he'll flee from you" (James 4:7)

Report, Mr. Spock..
"We're being probed Captain, source and origin unknown.."

[Doubt]

He then told me "think of something that makes you angry" The needle never moved. A few of his colleagues came over to help him twiddle with the knobs,because they thought the machine had packed up.


Given that the E-meter measures skin conductivity, there are three possbile reasons it did not work:

1) Malfunctioning Device
2) Your skin will not conduct
3) You made this all up

Number one is possible. But the obvious troubleshooting step would have been for one the guys using the machine to test it on himself. Had that happened, you would likely have mentioned it here.

Number two is rather unlikely given that you are mostly water just the same as everyone else.

Number three appears to be the correct answer. I think you have created a work of fiction worthy of L. Ron himself.

[Zep]

Genesis, Ch1919:30 And Lot went up out of Zoar, and dwelt in the mountain, and his two daughters with him; for he feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.
19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father is old, and there is not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.
19:33 And they made their father drink wine that night: and the firstborn went in, and lay with her father; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:34 And it came to pass on the morrow, that the firstborn said unto the younger, Behold, I lay yesternight with my father: let us make him drink wine this night also; and go thou in, and lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father. The Seduction of Lot
19:35 And they made their father drink wine that night also: and the younger arose, and lay with him; and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose.
19:36 [B]Thus were both the daughters of Lot with child by their father.Great stuff from the OT, Mick. Think God ordains this?

[l0rca]

I'm starting to see the dichotomy between the religious coming to our forums and us going to theirs. They come here with grand emotional appeals, and a shallow understanding of what our arguments are. We go there with dorky logic, evidence, and philosophy, with a shallow understanding of what their arguments are.

[AZAtheist]

Mick, we really don't need you to rehash old bible stories here. If you have something new...well maybe. Please, join the discussion, you seem to be in transmit only mode and you're not serving any useful purpose. I often wonder how your activities benefit you. What do you get out of being a troll?

[Ladewig]

You gotta be jivin' me boy.. :)

ELECTRODES ANYONE? -
I was stopped by a young Scientologist chap while passing their Plymouth UK office and he said "Would you like to take a stress test?" I replied it sounds fun,so we went inside and he gave me an electrode to hold in each hand wired to a dial.
He then told me "think of something that makes you angry" The needle never moved. A few of his colleagues came over to help him twiddle with the knobs,because they thought the machine had packed up.
He asked me the same question again. Still no movement!
I had to explain to him that there was nothing wrong with his machine,and that because I'm a Christian,I'm cool and laidback and chilled all the time and NOTHING annoys me!
Him and his mates then tried to have a friendly theological argument with me,but I wiped the floor with 'em!
They tried to say Scientology was the answer to the worlds problems,to which I replied "But why then do you reject Jesus who preached love and compassion and peace? How can scientology be better than him?"
They couldn't answer. Huh!
I made to leave and they said "oh, take one of our books with you, its only £5" (8 dollars)
I politely declined and toddled off..
------------------------------------


Ah, so you're one of those Christians. The kind who believes that it is OK to tell lies when trying to bring people to believe in Jesus.

Isn't your little story a bit on the blasphemous side? After all the Bible is chock full of stories where God became angry and here you are claiming that your temper is better than God's.

[baron]

If you give in to demonic probing you give them a foot in the door of your mind which can lead to eventual possession -


Good advice. I urge everyone to resist demonic probing at every opportunity. Many people believe it's OK to tolerate a little demonic probing, they think they can handle it, but when the probing becomes more regular and the probes wider and longer they quickly discover it's too late to turn back.

[The Darkest One]

... I'm a Christian,I'm cool and laidback and chilled all the time and NOTHING annoys me!

So, you're either dead emotionally, you have a Jesus complex, you're heavily into sedatives, or your perception of reality is skewed from a lack of attention as a child.:hypnotize

[ImaginalDisc]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/molly2.jpg

Who the hell makes 1st Century C.E. costume armor like that using three different metals?

[thomps1d]

... because I'm a Christian,I'm cool and laidback and chilled all the time and NOTHING annoys me!

Nothing? Nothing at all?

So, theoretically, if you were at home, having a lovely dinner with your parents and someone broke in, shot your father and made you watch while he raped your mother, you wouldn't be even a little bit annoyed?

I think there are three possibilities here:

1) You are a troll. This seems most likely to me.

2) You are a liar. This goes hand-in-hand with #1, but rather than intentionally trolling, you may feel that it's genuinely OK to lie to people to convert them.

3) You are a mentally disturbed individual who is unable to feel connected to the world and people around him. Anybody who feels even the smallest degree of compassion for his fellow man will feel justified at being annoyed, even angry when bad things happen to those around him.

So, Mick, which is it? Troll, liar, or mentally disturbed? Inquiring minds want to know.

[JonnyFive]

Tell 'em Johnny -

You're not the boss of me. ;)

Mick, if you're not going to accept Clint Eastwood as your Director and Entertainer, then I really can't help you any further. If you insist on hardening your heart against Clint, then you'll surely fall prey to the Charles Bronsonites or the Charlton Hestonians.

[Orangutan]

Who the hell makes 1st Century C.E. costume armor like that using three different metals?

I thought they were chips, The ones you use when selecting your counter tops for your kitchen.
:)

[CriticalThanking]

"Sure" said the young man, "provided whoever's perfect among you throws the first stone"
At which point an old woman walked up with a large boulder held aloft. She tossed the boulder on Molly, killing her. Jesus cried out "Mom, sometimes you really tick me off!"

What? This isn't the humor forum? Sure seemed like it from Mick's posts - not a logical proposition to be seen...

CT

[Ladewig]

At which point an old woman walked up with a large boulder held aloft. She tossed the boulder on Molly, killing her. Jesus cried out "Mom, sometimes you really tick me off!"CT


That's pretty funny, Johnny, but that ain't the way I heard it. The way I heard, Jesus says, "Mom, I've told you not to bother me at work!"

[CriticalThanking]

Sorry. Religion presents far too many jokes to keep them all straight. :D

CT

[Tricky]

I think there are three possibilities here:

1) You are a troll. This seems most likely to me.

2) You are a liar. This goes hand-in-hand with #1, but rather than intentionally trolling, you may feel that it's genuinely OK to lie to people to convert them.

3) You are a mentally disturbed individual who is unable to feel connected to the world and people around him. Anybody who feels even the smallest degree of compassion for his fellow man will feel justified at being annoyed, even angry when bad things happen to those around him.
I'm not fond of these false trichotomies here any more of them than I am when I see some Christian try to snare a person with their "Liar, Lunatic, Lord" trichotomy.

You are leaving out at least one, and I believe the most critical option:

4) Mick is simply wrong. Mick is not lying, because he believes what he says. Mick is not insane, at least not under most definitions I've heard. Mick is not a troll because he truly thinks he's doing good by making these posts, not just roiling the waters.

Because he has no evidence for his assertions and because he cannot resolve logical contradictions in his scenarios, that says to me that option 4 (and there may be many sub-options) is the most likely.

[RandFan]

So, theoretically, if you were at home, having a lovely dinner with your parents and someone broke in, shot your father and made you watch while he raped your mother, you wouldn't be even a little bit annoyed?

I think there are three possibilities here:

1) You are a troll. This seems most likely to me.

2) You are a liar. This goes hand-in-hand with #1, but rather than intentionally trolling, you may feel that it's genuinely OK to lie to people to convert them.

3) You are a mentally disturbed individual who is unable to feel connected to the world and people around him. Anybody who feels even the smallest degree of compassion for his fellow man will feel justified at being annoyed, even angry when bad things happen to those around him.

So, Mick, which is it? Troll, liar, or mentally disturbed? Inquiring minds want to know. I can't find an excluded option. Troll for 500 Alex.

[RandFan]

I'm not fond of these false trichotomies here any more of them than I am when I see some Christian try to snare a person with their "Liar, Lunatic, Lord" trichotomy.

You are leaving out at least one, and I believe the most critical option:

4) Mick is simply wrong. Mick is not lying, because he believes what he says. Mick is not insane, at least not under most definitions I've heard. Mick is not a troll because he truly thinks he's doing good by making these posts, not just roiling the waters.

Because he has no evidence for his assertions and because he cannot resolve logical contradictions in his scenarios, that says to me that option 4 (and there may be many sub-options) is the most likely.:( Damn, leave it to Tricky. I guess I didn't try very hard.

[kittykatkarma]

This has been very educational for me. I now know what a post looks like, after having received a warning. This is the first time I've seen that.

:)

4771

[enjoytheview]

Haha well at least somebody's learnt something. Thanks Mick, that was a top-notch demonstration.

[JonnyFive]

4) Mick is simply wrong. Mick is not lying, because he believes what he says. Mick is not insane, at least not under most definitions I've heard. Mick is not a troll because he truly thinks he's doing good by making these posts, not just roiling the waters.

Because he has no evidence for his assertions and because he cannot resolve logical contradictions in his scenarios, that says to me that option 4 (and there may be many sub-options) is the most likely.

Perhaps you are presenting a false... quad... quat... quadrato... quadronomy... something.

[l0rca]

Mick, stop making a new thread for each thought that passes through your head. You already have opened 11 threads today. Stick to those.

If any of you agree with her, why don't we all just stop replying to him? Let's have a troller boycot. Please. We can even make a new thread titled "the troll challenge" where we sign a digital contract stating we will no longer feed the obvious trolls. Something. Anything.

[Ladewig]

If any of you agree with her, why don't we all just stop replying to him? Let's have a troller boycot. Please. We can even make a new thread titled "the troll challenge" where we sign a digital contract stating we will no longer feed the obvious trolls. Something. Anything.

One of the problems is that many of us have different thresholds for identifying trolls. I went back and forth trying to decide if Kurious_Kathy was a troll or not. In the end I decided she was not. As for Mick, I would say that I am maybe 75% sure he is a troll, but I think there is a possibility that he is sincere.

Also, it takes a strong will to not reply to someone who puts forth an innane argument and follows up a few days later with a post that says "no one can challenge my impeccable argument."

Even on cases that almost everyone knows is a troll, some of us consider the lurkers and visitors. We don't want them to walk away with the impression that the troll had a valid point.

[thomps1d]

You are leaving out at least one, and I believe the most critical option:

4) Mick is simply wrong. Mick is not lying, because he believes what he says. Mick is not insane, at least not under most definitions I've heard. Mick is not a troll because he truly thinks he's doing good by making these posts, not just roiling the waters.

Had I been commenting solely on the tripe that he posts masquerading as religious wisdom, I'd agree wholeheartedly. The possibility that he was merely wrong did indeed occur to me, but I dismissed it primarily for the reason of this line:

"...because I'm a Christian,I'm cool and laidback and chilled all the time and NOTHING annoys me!"

This statement doesn't leave much room for error in the options we are presented. Either this is pure hyperbole, in which case I would consider him a troll (however well intentioned), or it's an outright lie, or it is true and he is mentally ill for reasons mentioned in my previous post.

The key distinction, then, seems to be whether or not he truly believes that nothing annoys him.

Does he truly believe that "NOTHING" (his emphasis) annoys him? Let's be realistic. If he absolutely, truly, completely, wholly believes that nothing could ever annoy him, then he is at best delusional, and at worst lying to himself (in which case he's still a liar). The more probable middle ground is that he knows that it's a lie, but figures that it's acceptable because it's a lie for Jesus.

Of course, as in all things, I am guided by my experience here. The least annoyable person that I ever know was a guy I met back in my college days who was a very devoted Buddhist. This guy seemed to have an absolutely impenetrable calmness, no matter what happened. I asked him about it once, and asked him if anything ever got him in a huff. I'll defer to his wisdom here (paraphrased as best as I can recall):

"Do things drive me nuts sometimes? Absolutely. Do I get a little miffed when I stub my toe or otherwise hurt myself? Absolutely. Would I be angry if someone hurt a member of my family or a friend? You bet. The key thing is to avoid holding on to those feelings. Everyone will get mad sometimes. Only fools stay mad forever, and I guess I'm a little quicker at letting go of those feelings."

I think this sentiment gets to the heart of the matter: getting annoyed is part of human nature. Somebody who claims that he never gets annoyed at anything, ever, is making a very questionable claim - one which I think could even qualify as paranormal. Maybe he should apply for the MDC and we could create a protocol based on poking him with pointy objects for several hours straight to see if he gets annoyed?

Now, so far as the rest of Mick's posts go, I have absolutely no doubt that he holds his beliefs as a Christian very dearly, and that he genuinely believes that by exaggerating certain aspects of stories about his past (or inventing them out of whole cloth), he is doing good - after all, the omissions or inventions are minor, and the goal is noble to him. But does that matter? If it walks like a troll, smells like a troll, regenerates wounds not inflicted by fire or acid, and lives under a bridge, should we hesitate to call it a troll even if it's just an Ogre with a half-troll template applied?

[Tricky]

Good points, Thomps1d. I guess it gets down to what your definition of a troll is. I've always considered them to be people who post only to stir up trouble, which means that as long as they believe what they say, then even if they know they will stir up trouble, that is not their only reason for posting. However, I'm willing to admit that Mick is pretty close to the line. His fast exit from here indicates that he wasn't dedicated enough to saving our souls to stick around and answer questions, not that he ever intended to answer questions.

But even if I agree he is a troll, I still say that there are more than three possibilities, and various degrees of mixing between the listed possibilities.

BTW, I haven't really exchanged posts with you yet, so let me offer my welcome, even though you're not really a newbie.

[bruto]

Mick, when I went to Sunday school very long ago, it was customary to dress up the bible stories for juvenile consumption. Most of us here are grownups now, and John's version is considerably more elegant.

You really ought to find something more useful to occupy your time.