How Did The Witch Do It?

[Tumbleweed]

I must be a glutton for ridicule but here goes. (Actually I like being ridiculed because it usually means my debator has run out of logic ammo) I have had two encounters with witches that have utterly mystified me
Okay the first was not so mystical. I'll make a long story short
A long time ago I met these two women at a night club . After talking for a while, they claimed they were witches. I sneered and said if you are a witch do me this favor - it involved not having to go out to sea on an aircraft carrier. She looked at me and said with utter certainty, "Consider it done"
I didn't go out to sea on that carrier due to a series of unlikely events
Pure chance possible? You betcha!
But how about this: I was at a party many years later and met yet another women who claimed she was a witch. I was, shall we say, a bit of a skeptic in spite of the first incident. She had a couple of drinks too many, came over to me and said out of the blue, "I can tell you your birthday, December xx, 19xx. Just like that. And then she told someone else THEIR exact birthday as well. Her friend came over and whisked her away, my jaw still dropped
Not making any explanations at all. Just reporting what happened. She was a complete stranger and the few people I knew there had no knowledge of my birthday
And the funny thing was, I could FEEL something going on inside my head as she apparently was thumbing through it for my birthday. And no I wasn't even close to drunk. I never have more than two beers at a time
Of course I expect nothing but derision from the logic -bots here, and that's cool. Its to be expected from people with little imagination
It seems utterly impossible to me too. But I just can't explain it and it bugs the hell out of me
So, if by remote chance there are any self proclaimed witches on board, how about an explanation, humorous, sarcastic or otherwise! I can filter them out
And what a great chance for some witch (good, hopefully, and not evil) to win the million bucks! Guess ten people's birthdays correctly.
Can I have half for the idea?

[Garrette]

Many possible explanations, the least likely of which involves actual witchery.

1. You're lying (I'm not suggesting this is true, but it must be considered).

2. You're misremembering.

3. She got lucky.

4. You fell victim to the prank of someone you know.

5. You feel victim to the prank of someone you don't know.


As a subset of 4 and 5, the second person whose birthdate was named could well have been in on it.


I had a friend who, in college, got laid a lot because he would go up to girls in bars and say "I can tell by looking at you you're a Libra." 1 in 12 times he was right. 12 girls a night is easy.

Have you ever read Richard Feynman's Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman?

If you want to know how someone does something impossible (breaking into locked safes, which it was apparently impossible for him to know the combinations to) using purely mundane means, I suggest you pick this up.

[NoZed Avenger]

Have you ever read Richard Feynman's Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman?


Cool book.

[KingMerv00]

(Actually I like being ridiculed because it usually means my debator has run out of logic ammo)

Post hoc fallacy:
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/post-hoc.html

[Gord_in_Toronto]

"How Did The Witch Do It?"

Same way porcupines make love
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Verrry carefully!

[baron]

You weren't wearing a t-shirt that said "32 today", were you?

[kalen]

She had a couple of drinks too many, came over to me and said out of the blue, "I can tell you your birthday, December xx, 19xx. Just like that. And then she told someone else THEIR exact birthday as well. Her friend came over and whisked her away, my jaw still dropped


Let me guess... you were so amazed, you didn't notice your wallet had gone missing.

[baron]

I had a friend who, in college, got laid a lot because he would go up to girls in bars and say "I can tell by looking at you you're a Libra." 1 in 12 times he was right.

And they f***ed him on that basis? And here's me thinking the women round here were easy...

[boooeee]

Do you think this witch could use a million dollars? That could fund a lot of bar hopping.

I can't think of an ability more well suited for the Randi challenge than that. Present her with five strangers and have them guess their birthdays. Fame and fortune to ensue.

[ChristineR]

You know, there are some people out there who just like to mess with people's heads. There are people who wouldn't think twice about looking up someone's birthday in the student directory on their telephone internet, or peeking in someone's wallet, or what have you.

But remember this: when you close the clever loopholes these people fail. ALWAYS. Every time. No exceptions, not one, ever.

I 'd bet you a dollar that if you had caught her doing whatever she did, she'd say something like "but I am a witch, it's just that people don't know how witchcraft really works so I have to do this sort of thing to convince them."

[Dogdoctor]

Did you get carded? Did you pay by credit card or check requiring ID? On other nights?

[andyandy]

did anyone else at the party know your birthday?

isn't it just possible that she'd found out your birthday previous to her "mind reading" trick?

you'd have been blown away by the "mind reading" routine me and my twin sister used to perform when we were kids......:)


"So you're twins!"

"Yep. She's my twin sister"

"Identical?"

"Er, no she's my sister."

"Are you telepathic?"

"Yeah we do have a certain connection...."

*cue really lame mind reading trick we worked out when we were seven*

"wow....that's amazing!"

lol

it's amazing what people'll believe when you're fufiling their preconceptions :D

You know, there are some people out there who just like to mess with people's heads.



I hope there weren't kids that grew up believing in telepathy because of me and my sis......:D

[davefoc]

One of my favorite movie lines is in the first ghost busters when the friends of Bill Murray's character have brought him over to look at some books stacked on the floor in the library as evidence of ghost activity. At that point Bill Murray's character says, "You're right, no human being would stack books like this.".

I think that comment pretty much sums up my reaction to the OP. "You're right, no human being could have known your birthday." :)

[andyandy]

tell you what, give me a group of 35 people, and i'll be able to guess with 80% accuracy that two people in the group share a birthday.....

i jus need some eye of newt*and skin of rat*to make it work :D

*actually this is just an optional extra

*so is this

[Dogdoctor]

How about this one. I am living with a woman and she is having a party in a few hours and asks me to go to the liquor store to purchase supplies for the party. She hands me a list of the stuff and I go to the store but as I get there I am overwhelmed by the thought that I should probably buy some ice so I pick up all the stuff and a couple small bags of ice. I am not really sure why I am thinking that but I figure it's cheap enough so I might as well. I get back and she looks at what I had and said "Good. The liquor store clerk said you had left already. I guess you were still there to get the message." I say "Huh? What message?" She says "I phoned to tell you to buy some ice." I guess she phoned but I had left already.

[MajorOrgan]

Actually I like being ridiculed because it usually means my debator has run out of logic ammo

Of course I expect nothing but derision from the logic -bots here, and that's cool. Its to be expected from people with little imagination

lawl, hypocrite much?

Or is this your admission of running out of "logic ammo"?

In respect to your actual post, do you realize how uncredible they become when parties and alcohol are thrown into the equation? How do you know the second person (who does not even identify herself as a witch) wasn't conversating with some other person, who happened to mention both of your birthdays, at which point she thought it'd be a good idea to mess with your mind?

Overall, you've hardly provided enough evidence to draw any conclusion about what actually happened, but I seriously doubt telepathy and sorcery are the most logical conclusions.

When I was little, my mother took my brother and I to see Santa Claus before Christmas. When I sat down, Santa addressed me by name. I was completely amazed, being at the age where belief in Santa was waning. Later that day I realized I was wearing a sweater with my name on it.

[joobz]

Next time on, "Tales of the Bland and Uninteresting!",

--"Oh my god, he just made that pencil that was precariously placed on the edge of a table move with his mind!!!"

[joobz]

lawl, hypocrite much?

this is the second thread i've seen where he attacks skeptics and scientists as having little or no imagination.

it's interesting to me, since coming up with something new that conforms with reality is actually quite challenging and takes a fair amount of imagination. coming up with complete nonsense that has no such limits isn't terribly clever or imaginitive.

---
Purple napkin hates crowning fizzled mash. Up not the stand fort, left a gravy hopcap.

[fuelair]

Imagination is nice - but it can't substitute for testing, (Or, imagination says all things are possible, testing shows which actually are and which actually aren't at this point in space-time.)

[Garrette]

And they f***ed him on that basis? And here's me thinking the women round here were easy...Well, as I met him long after we had both graduated, I have to take him at his word. According to him, this didn't result in them immediately jumping into bed but provided the lead-in he needed and caused them to eye him as one of those sexy mystical types.

[Roboramma]

Okay the first was not so mystical. I'll make a long story short
Hey Tumbleweed. This reminds me of something from my own life.

When I was 20, I trained to teach yoga. I was somewhat of a new-ager at the time, not exactly buying all of the wacky philosphy, but entertaining it in my thoughts about life.

At the begining of the teacher training they had us set out a list of goals. The idea was that these were things that the training would lead us to be able to accomplish in life. But more than that, they suggested that simply by writing them down, we would find them happening for us. I thought, "well, this is sort of neat", and I wrote down a bunch of things. I don't remember all of them, but one of the things I wrote down was "I'd like to travel and teach yoga", another was "I'd like to have a chance to train in India".

Shortly before this a travelling teacher came to our yoga studio, and taught us some mantras, one of which he said was an invocation to Ganesha to bring you good fortune or something like that. I didn't really buy it exactly, but I started doing it from time to time because I thought it was neat, and what they hell.

Before I had even finished the training (which was only 1 month long), I had already been offered a very good paying job teaching yoga in Hong Kong. The offer was for a temporary position that would last three months, and I thought "Perfect, I can use the money I make there to fund my trip to india!". Well, I ended up staying for six months, and went back to Canada before I finally went to india, but it was the money I saved in HK that I used to fund my trip. It really seemed like there was something magical going on here - that they were right that just by writing down what I wanted, and believing that it would happen, the universe would somehow make it happen.

There were also some ways in which I was able to interpret all the other things I wrote down as being achieved by the end of the training.

"Wow!" I thought to myself, "There really is something to this!". I went on believing that just by wishing for things to happen to me, I could make them happen, and that if I went through these mantras, particularly at decisive moments (as I had when waiting to hear back from my future employers in hong kong), it would make it all the more likely. I believed that for quite a while.

And so, after that whenever I wanted something, I'd think to myself, "this is going to happen for you", and whenever an important opportunity came along, I'd chant this little mantra 108 times. ("Om Gom Ganepateyi Namaha" something like that). The only problem is that it never seemed to work again. Time and again I'd wish to myself that some course of events would unfold, and life would start throwing it's little uncertainties in the way, taking me in completely different (not necessarily worse) directions.

Time and again those opportunites wouldn't pan out, or I'd have to work very very hard to make them pan out. Things didn't just fall into place for me like they did that day when I sent out an email, did a phone interview, and was suddenly making up to CAN$100/hour.

Eventually I realised that maybe I had just gotten lucky. We all do sometimes. But while I'm still greatful for that luck - it got me started, gave me a chance to see a new part of the world, and gave me a lot of great experiences - I can't count on luck to see me through in the future.

The real world is a hard place to live in. I value my independence, though, and I'm proud to say that I've been able to get by on my own the past six years without anything higher than a high school education, and while I've been dirt poor at times, I'm doing pretty well for myself now. I don't think I'd have that same kind of pride if I still believed in some sort of mystical providence that made things happen just because I wanted them to.

So while the real world is a hard place to live in, I'm starting to realise that I think I like it better that way.

I don't know if any of this has much bearing on your OP, just some memories that you brought up, and I thought you might find interesting.

[Sleepy]

this is the second thread i've seen where he attacks skeptics and scientists as having little or no imagination.


I find skeptics have no problem imagining many different ways of faking any "paranormal" claims, usually coming up with better methods than the fraudsters themselves.

Consider the challenge. James Randi has applied his imagination to pre-empt every claimant to date. That's just one skeptic, out-imagineering hundreds of woos in documented cases.

The thread starter doesn't sound imaginative, just gullible. That's not an ad-hominem, by the way, just an objective conclusion drawn from the anecdotes.

[Garrette]

I'd chant this little mantra 108 times.I've always wondered why 108 is such a special number. in some martial arts it is the number of tests to undergo, which I have always found amusing, especially when the tests are the Kung-Fu-ish-succeed-or-die type:

Student: Master. I have completed the 107 tes... WHAP!...Arrrgggh.

Teacher: 107? So sorry, grasshopper. I meant 108.

[Tirdun]

As with most paranormal powers, I'm less impressed by what she could apparently do than how incredibly useless it is.

Imagine, you can pull a single fairly banal bit of information about a person out of the magik aether that you could just as easily ask for or steal. Pazam(tm)! I know you were born on this day! FEAR MY IMMINENT WORLD DOMINATION!

It's so boring. Bend spoons. Come up with vague hints of a message from the great beyond. Summon your birthday (just day and month, or did she crack out the year?). Guess your weight... oops, no that's a midway trick.

Sure, it suggests greater and more wondrous powers lurk, but why not play those first? I know where you hide your pr0n! I know your high score in GALAGA! I know the name of the girl you kissed in MIDDLE SCHOOL! Bwahahaha! (thunder)

[ObscureReferenceMan]

Tumbleweed,

Are you really asking how she did it? Or are you just trying to wow the crowd with an amazing story? It seems to me like you're going for the latter. There have already been a bunch of mundane explanations. Why are you convinced the explanation is paranormal?

Yet another explanation I would consider is the girl is good at "reading" people. Your story was a little short on details, so maybe instead of coming out with a date (May 9), she "wheedled" it out of you. "I'm seeing the spring" (watches for a tell). "The beginning of the month" (watches for tell).

[Diogenes]

How about this one. I am living with a woman and she is having a party in a few hours and asks me to go to the liquor store to purchase supplies for the party. She hands me a list of the stuff and I go to the store but as I get there I am overwhelmed by the thought that I should probably buy some ice so I pick up all the stuff and a couple small bags of ice. I am not really sure why I am thinking that but I figure it's cheap enough so I might as well. I get back and she looks at what I had and said "Good. The liquor store clerk said you had left already. I guess you were still there to get the message." I say "Huh? What message?" She says "I phoned to tell you to buy some ice." I guess she phoned but I had left already.

Hmmmmm Let's see..

At a party where they are running out of liquor ..


It occurs to you it might be a good idea to get more ice...

:jaw-dropp

The prize is yours !!!

[Yahzi]

(Actually I like being ridiculed because it usually means my debator has run out of logic ammo)
There is another possibility: that you have not provided logical to debate about.

"You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into."

I have had two encounters with witches that have utterly mystified me
The two encounters you describe are so vapid and ludicrous as to deserve only ridicule.

Of course I expect nothing but derision from the logic -bots here, and that's cool. Its to be expected from people with little imagination
Just as a suggestion: you might recieve somehwat less derision if you did not start out with derision.

By your own logic, the fact that you have resorted to derision tells us that you are already out of logic ammo - in your opening post.

So, if by remote chance there are any self proclaimed witches on board, how about an explanation, humorous, sarcastic or otherwise!
Of all the places to find a witch, you look here?

Don't worry; I won't make any derisive comments about your intellect or common sense. Nothing I can say would top what you've already demonstrated.

And what a great chance for some witch (good, hopefully, and not evil) to win the million bucks!
And yet, no witch (good or evil) has claimed the money. Why wouldn't an evil witch have claimed the money? She could even use her magic powers to force Randi to pay. And yet... nothing.

I guess all the real witches are out guessing birthdays at parties for free.

[Dogdoctor]

Hmmmmm Let's see..

At a party where they are running out of liquor ..


It occurs to you it might be a good idea to get more ice...

:jaw-dropp

The prize is yours !!!
No this was actually prior to the party

[Tumbleweed]

Well, I got lots of opinions from one side, but not a witch to be heard from. They do exist don't they even if only in name?
And yes of course I thought she might have looked up my birthday. It was always possible. But this wasn't set up as some parlor game. Nobody asked her to do a damned thing and she didn't do a damned thing until she got too drunk and just started blurting out stuff. I never saw her again.
So the official explanation was that she was some kind of psychotic who memorized strangers birthdays,( who she GUESSED she would meet at a party some day) to impress them just for the hell of it it. Okayyy-- I suppose that's possible! Then again, maybe it ain't

[Terry]

So the official explanation was [...]

no-one gave an "official" explanation.

[Diogenes]

No this was actually prior to the party

Uhhmmm.. O.K.

There's going to be this party with a lot of people drinking, and it occurs to you out of the blue, that you might need some extra ice ...

Oh, yeah .. That seems much more like a psychic event than the first scenario.



I'm with you now...;)

[Eos of the Eons]

I figure it's possible you had to bring your ID to the bar. I figure it's possible she got a hold of a couple of IDs that were easy to get and return and memorized one or two birthdates. Then she rambles them off later on.

If she told you your mom's maiden name without her knowing you ever before, I may be impressed a little bit. But birthdates on IDs??

A good pickpocket would make an impressive birthday ramber.

[Tumbleweed]

no-one gave an "official" explanation.

Picky picky picky! You aren't a religion semanticist by chance
Have it YOUR way: the UNOFFICIAL opinion was ---
You REALLY thought I thought the opinion was OFFIICIAL? let me clue you in -- I was being sarcastic

[Soapy Sam]

"And the funny thing was, I could FEEL something going on inside my head as she apparently was thumbing through it for my birthday. And no I wasn't even close to drunk. I never have more than two beers at a time"
- Tumbleweed.

Care to expand on this?
Can you describe what it feels like when you think, for instance.

[Tumbleweed]

"And the funny thing was, I could FEEL something going on inside my head as she apparently was thumbing through it for my birthday. And no I wasn't even close to drunk. I never have more than two beers at a time"
- Tumbleweed.

Care to expand on this?
Can you describe what it feels like when you think, for instance.

I dunno, how does it feel when someone has a stroke? Or a damned headache?

[Terry]

let me clue you in -- I was being sarcastic

stands back in amazement No!

[dissonance]

Well, I got lots of opinions from one side, but not a witch to be heard from. They do exist don't they even if only in name?
And yes of course I thought she might have looked up my birthday. It was always possible. But this wasn't set up as some parlor game. Nobody asked her to do a damned thing and she didn't do a damned thing until she got too drunk and just started blurting out stuff. I never saw her again.
So the official explanation was that she was some kind of psychotic who memorized strangers birthdays,( who she GUESSED she would meet at a party some day) to impress them just for the hell of it it. Okayyy-- I suppose that's possible! Then again, maybe it ain't

Had you never met a drunk person before? People do stupid things when they're drunk. People go get tattoo'd while drunk. People have sex with complete strangers while drunk. Girls flash those creepy 'Girls Gone Wild' guys while drunk. Is it really that surprising that some girl might get drunk and want to play a bit of a joke on someone by, say, finding out their birthday and then pretending to be a witch?

[Tumbleweed]

Had you never met a drunk person before? People do stupid things when they're drunk. People go get tattoo'd while drunk. People have sex with complete strangers while drunk. Girls flash those creepy 'Girls Gone Wild' guys while drunk. Is it really that surprising that some girl might get drunk and want to play a bit of a joke on someone by, say, finding out their birthday and then pretending to be a witch?
Sure its possible, but if someone is weird enough to do that thaey might as well be a "witch"
And why just me and another guy. If you were out to screw with some guys head wouldn't you do it in front of the whole crowd, who would most likely be in on the joke? Just me her some guy and her friend heard this. She just stopped on her way out while putting her coat on looked us in the eye, matter of factly told us our birthdays and was gone. I just happened to be standing near the door as she left
That's how it went down. If it had gone down ANY other way, I would be a skeptic too. All I am saying is that I experienced something I could not explain and, having a mind that treasures logic, it bugs the hell out of me. You guys say I'm the victim of an elaborate seemingly random hoax that came from nowhere and went nowhere. I am not so sure. That is why I wanted to hear from a REAL self proclaimed witch (BS or not) but having seen the ridicule, one is not likely to appear.( A FAKE self proclaimed witch is far more likely, but you know, I'm betting I could tell the difference.) And I ain't searching any occult sites. Just not my bag
And whoever said it was right: What the hell does a witch need a million dollars for?
And just to show I am not obsessed with this, I'm pretty much done with this thread, unless the witches want to put their two cents in
Why banter about ridicule, and I really haven't more to add than I've already described. I'll just chalk your explanation up to hoax (what else could it have been?), so I didn't learn anything I didn't already know as possible. (To be honest I wasn't trying to elicit an explanation from skeptics -- I was witch baiting to actually get the other side of the story, hoax or not)
Where's the witch when I need her, to smite all these naysayers for me, win the million bucks, and hand it over to me since she doesn't need it and I do! Is that kosher or does the money HAVE to go to the witch?

[TjW]

"And the funny thing was, I could FEEL something going on inside my head as she apparently was thumbing through it for my birthday. And no I wasn't even close to drunk. I never have more than two beers at a time"
- Tumbleweed.

Care to expand on this?
Can you describe what it feels like when you think, for instance.

It seems unlikely.

[Eos of the Eons]

lol, Tumbleweed is the exact type of person a "witch" can toy with :D

Hmmm *concentrates*

Do you feel something inside your head again tumbleweed?
Cuz I'm thinking of snow. Does that mean anything to you?

[davefoc]

lol, Tumbleweed is the exact type of person a "witch" can toy with :D

Hmmm *concentrates*

Do you feel something inside your head again tumbleweed?
Cuz I'm thinking of snow. Does that mean anything to you?

:)

[Dogdoctor]

Uhhmmm.. O.K.

There's going to be this party with a lot of people drinking, and it occurs to you out of the blue, that you might need some extra ice ...

Oh, yeah .. That seems much more like a psychic event than the first scenario.



I'm with you now...;)

LOL yeah ok so it might not seem like much but you have to see it from the perspective I had. Truthfully what may have happened is she may have told me at some point that she would need ice only I don't consciously remember that. I had no clue what she would need for the party other than what she said or even any idea how big the party was going to be (it was big). I go to the liquor store and I have no idea why I am thinking I should buy ice but I buy it. There were many such episodes of apparently being in tune with her thoughts but it easily could have all been explained by a desire on my part to please her and both of us having abandoned normal behavior as a template for our lives.

[Cuddles]

Sure its possible, but if someone is weird enough to do that thaey might as well be a "witch"

You think that because a drunk person does something odd they must have magic powers? Interesting.

And why just me and another guy. If you were out to screw with some guys head wouldn't you do it in front of the whole crowd, who would most likely be in on the joke? Just me her some guy and her friend heard this. She just stopped on her way out while putting her coat on looked us in the eye, matter of factly told us our birthdays and was gone. I just happened to be standing near the door as she left

So she did a very basic parlour trick in exactly the way it is usually done. Even I have managed things like this, and I have trouble remembering my best freinds' birthdays, let alone some random at a party. If she had done it in front of a group it would be obvious that she was doing some kind of trick, but if done just in passing to one or two people it becomes something mysterious. Clever, no?

[Curnir]

Sooo... this party.

It wouldn't happen to have been your birthday party would it?

[Yahzi]

Well, I got lots of opinions from one side, but not a witch to be heard from. They do exist don't they even if only in name?
You're still looking for a witch on this forum?

You expect to find proof of witchery at parties, and witch representatives in skeptic forums... do you see a pattern here?

I would suggest you remove your head from your ass, but I don't think you could find your ass with both hands and a map.

[ObscureReferenceMan]

I have to second Yahzi's comment. You're looking for a witch here?!?! That's like posting at a Yankees board and looking for a Mets fan.

Again, are you really asking for input, or are you just trying to "stir the pot"?

[ChristineR]

Uh-huh.

You came here looking for validation of your own views, and you got it. You came here with the idea that you are special, so special that us normal people couldn't possibly "get it" and so you went in search of people who you knew would dispute your interpretation and provided us with a story that really isn't remarkable at all.

It's a public board and all, but really this sort of self funded ego stroking is not good for your long term mental and social development.