"Cave Arabs Couldnt Do 9-11"

[parky76]

this is a paraphrase of one of the arguments against the official 9-11 story. they claim, that al qaeda, and islamic militants, are just too dumb and unsophisticated to hijack 4 planes and crash them into buildings.

where does such a...to be honest...racist...idea come from?

muslem fundamentalists fought a long, calculated war against the ussr...and won. muslem fundamentalists have huge amounts of wealth..tend to be highly educated...and are highly motivated.

so who are these backwoods "cave arabs" that the CTists are talking about?

maybe in their world, muslems and arabs are just a bunch of ignorant, lazy, knuckle dragging third-worlders, who are incapable of turning on a light bulb..let alone hijacking a plane.

but wait...hundreds of planes have been hijacked over the years by muslem radicals or arab nationalists...so we KNOW they can hijack them...i guess the theory is they are just too stupid to fly...but wait...

[defaultdotxbe]

pfft, arabs cant fky planes, all these arabian airlines are CIA fronts

Afriqiyah Airways
Air Algérie
Air Arabia
EgyptAir
Emirates
Etihad Airways
Gulf Air
Iraqi Airways
Jordan Aviation
Kuwait Airways
Libyan Arab Airlines
Middle East Airlines
Oman Air
Palestinian Airlines
Qatar Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Royal Jordanian
Saudi Arabian Airlines
Sudan Airways
Syrian Arab Airlines
Trans Mediterranean Airways
Tunisair
Yemenia

[Architect]

After all, it's not as if they invented maths or anything is it?

My unviersity had a large contingent of arab (mainly Saudi) postgrads, all doing PhD level work. They certainly seemed fairly smart to me.

But what would I know? I'm Scottish. Now, where's my kilt and claymore, I'm away to toss a caber and hunt for Nessie. It's not like we could ever invent, like, penicillin or the telephone or anything......

[Architect]

pfft, arabs cant fky planes, all these arabian airlines are CIA fronts

Afriqiyah Airways
Air Algérie
Air Arabia
EgyptAir
Emirates
Etihad Airways
Gulf Air
Iraqi Airways
Jordan Aviation
Kuwait Airways
Libyan Arab Airlines
Middle East Airlines
Oman Air
Palestinian Airlines
Qatar Airways
Royal Air Maroc
Royal Jordanian
Saudi Arabian Airlines
Sudan Airways
Syrian Arab Airlines
Trans Mediterranean Airways
Tunisair
Yemenia

I should probably warn you that the likes of the Saudis actually just employ a wheen (Scots, from Old Scots whein, an indeterminate number - invariably large) of foreign pilots.

[Dog Town]

I don't think caves became too popular, untill after 911.

[hellaeon]

ask the same people where algebra came from

edit: ask them about Al-Khwarizmi, though I believe there is debate concerning this

[defaultdotxbe]

I should probably warn you that the likes of the Saudis actually just employ a wheen (Scots, from Old Scots whein, an indeterminate number - invariably large) of foreign pilots.
all CIA agents no doubt

[PerryLogan]

This is my cue to step in and ask, even if we granted the CTs' assumptions about the terrorists' capabilities, why would the perps make up a cover story that was lame? Since they were creating the hoax, they could have said anything to make their cover story seem real.

[Architect]

I do recall a story - probably no more - about the Americans insisting that the Saudies flew some real sorties in the first Gulf War, for propoganda purposes.

Anyway, all went well. The one Tornado was surrounded and shielded by a stack of F-whatevers, it got no-where near the fighting but managed to launch a couple of missles at an indeterminate target.

Then it crashed on landing because the Saudi pilot and navigator forgot to put the landing geart down....:p

[Architect]

This is my cue to step in and ask, even if we granted the CTs' assumptions about the terrorists' capabilities, why would the perps make up a cover story that was lame? Since they were creating the hoax, they could have said anything to make their cover story seem real.


Yea, we all know it was really the Belgians....;)

[T.A.M.]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)

[Bell]

Then it crashed on landing because the Saudi pilot and navigator forgot to put the landing geart down....:p

Hmm... didn't bother with basic landing procedure... Coincidence? :boxedin:

[hellaeon]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)

Shill!

[Architect]

Hmm... didn't bother with basic landing procedure... Coincidence? :boxedin:


:D

[Dog Town]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)

Cter] Assuming all these people exist!!!111! /cter]

[joobz]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)

No, the lesson is that edumacation breeds terrorism.
Tear down the schools. They're against god'n'stuff..and um america.

[Horatius]

they claim, that al qaeda, and islamic militants, are just too dumb and unsophisticated to hijack 4 planes and crash them into buildings.

where does such a...to be honest...racist...idea come from?



What I'd like to know is, where did the idea that this plan was so hard & complicated come from?

The hardest thing on 9/11 was co-ordinating the timing of the hijackings, and that was mostly done by the airlines taking off on time. All the hijackers had to do was not sleep in that morning. Sheesh.

[T.A.M.]

I think the co-ordination of the operation, from the point of view of what training was needed, housing, and keeping under the radar, all required some smarts, but as I have shown, the people in question had smarts to spare...and money.

TAM

[Bell]

I just came across this picture...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Jarrah-2000-Flying-Florida.jpg

Jarrah at a Florida flight school in 2000

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jarrah-2000-Flying-Florida.jpg

[T.A.M.]

Wait he is...he is...he's flying...but how is that possible for an arab in a cave to do???

TAM

[NoZed Avenger]

Wait he is...he is...he's flying...but how is that possible for an arab in a cave to do???


Well, obviously he's been issued an anti-gravity cave by the CIA. The anti-gravity cave with giant beam weapons.

[T.A.M.]

Really? I didn't know the new anti-gravity caves came with wings. Now how come I wasnt offered one of those.

Damn

TAM

[Bell]

Wait he is...he is...he's flying...but how is that possible for an arab in a cave to do???

TAM

In that picture Jarrah kind of looks like a friend of mine, who is also a pilot. That friend is still alive. I think we're getting somewhere!!

[NoZed Avenger]

Really? I didn't know the new anti-gravity caves came with wings.

Well, they have to put the giant beam weapons somewhere.

I mean, think.

[Psiload]

where does such a...to be honest...racist...idea come from?

This is just more of the same...

"Thems ancient Egyptians were just too dang dumb and brown to build them there big 'ol pyramids... UFOs musta done it."

Racist ignorance pure and simple.

[MarkyX]

It's not only racist to arabs, but white people as well.

"Nah, it couldn't be those stupid arab bastards. They are too brown, live in caves, and have no education. Those dumb bastards"

"You're right. Brown people do not have the means or the resources to pull off 9/11. It was done by the government, which has a lot of white people in it!"

[orphia nay]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)

Well, obviously he [Jarrah]'s been issued an anti-gravity cave by the CIA. The anti-gravity cave with giant beam weapons.
:newlol
And libraries full of Aeronautics, Physics and Engineering textbooks

[ConspiRaider]

I think they don't want to admit that CAVE/RAD was caught unawares while tracking space junk. Feddies coverup (God, another one).

MONITOR 1
...so there I am in the middle of the road. She's got my keys and tank top in one car and her mother's got my boxer shorts in the other and they both like take off! There I am buck nekked on Route 22 at...

MONITOR 2
Hey what's this? Kinda looks like a cave doesn't it?

MONITOR 1
Ah, probly just a big radar echo, we get that from space junk sometimes. Anyway there's this family of prairie dogs out in the desert, I can see 'em...

MONITOR 2
Hold it! What are those 19 blips, see em?!? They're movin' independent of orbital velocity!

MONITOR 1
Holy friggin' Toledo lookit that! It's like the cave door's opening or something...

MONITOR 2
LOOK OUT! THAT'S NO ORBITING CAVE, IT'S A BEAM WEAPON AIMED RIGHT AT US!!! WHAT'S THAT GLOWING?!? NO! NO DON'T! AAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......

[gumboot]

Then it crashed on landing because the Saudi pilot and navigator forgot to put the landing geart down....:p


Actually... apparantly we send a lot of our Air Force pilots off to Middle East countries as flight instructors to their armed forces, and our guys really hate it. They're coming in on approach in a trainer, and something goes wrong, so the student just takes their hands off the control column and cries "Insha'Allah!" (God Wills It).

At that point the Instructor desperatly takes over with a quip like "God might will it, but I frikken don't!"

-Gumboot

[slingblade]

I'm going to take it that few folks know that this place (http://www.spartanaero.com/) used to teach an incredibly high number of young Middle Eastern men how to fly.

I don't know if they still do so these days, and it's interesting to note that on the site's "International Students" page, every international student appears to be Asian, but I know they used to.

I dated several of them, as did my friends, because they had m.o.n.e.y. and would rent nice cars, take us to fancy restaurants, and buy us jewelry. Then they would expect us to put out because "American girls are easy!"

Yes, one named Asmil actually said this to me and my friend while on a double-date. Unfortunately for him, this proved to be the wrong thing to say in order to get....well, to get what he wanted. ;)

Anyway, yes. They know how to fly.

[Mobyseven]

I'm going to take it that few folks know that this place (http://www.spartanaero.com/) used to teach an incredibly high number of young Middle Eastern men how to fly.

I don't know if they still do so these days, and it's interesting to note that on the site's "International Students" page, every international student appears to be Asian, but I know they used to.

I dated several of them, as did my friends, because they had m.o.n.e.y. and would rent nice cars, take us to fancy restaurants, and buy us jewelry. Then they would expect us to put out because "American girls are easy!"

Yes, one named Asmil actually said this to me and my friend while on a double-date. Unfortunately for him, this proved to be the wrong thing to say in order to get....well, to get what he wanted. ;)

Anyway, yes. They know how to fly.

American girls aren't easy? That's it, I'm cancelling my flight.

Though my girlfriend will probably be pleased to no end...:p

[ref]

This seems really crazy. People actually in the thread proving that there are arabs in this world that can fly planes. Really? There are hundred of millions of Arabs and over a billion Muslims in this world. You really have to spend time proving, that some of them can fly planes? How racist is that.

The more accurate approach to this was provided by TAM who actually had something to say about the abilities of the specific people involved. That is what matters. Not the billion others.

[ref]

And yes. It is racist too to claim that people lived in caves and couldn't do this or that. It maybe stems from some Osama hiding in a cave stuff and is getting really out of hand.

[Larry Lovage]

Someone posted a link, there's a thread called "Truthers in their own words" or something, to a YooToob of a phone-in or discussion radio programme in which Avery and the jock were laughing about the impossibility of taking over an airplane with box cutters, and all I could think was, "I wonder if someone came in and held a boxcutter to his neck if he'd hand over the microphone? Or if, at least, he would stop laughing at the horrendous death of the noble pilots." (Incidentally I believe the pilots were not threatened, they were simply killed.)

[PerryLogan]

Don't forget Truthers are contemptuous of EVERYBODY, not just Arabs.

Truthers think and often say that the average person is stupid--an ignorant, compartmentalized, cowardly, brainwashed "sheeple" who cannot see the secret plot which is so obvious to these brillliant guys. Sooner or later, a Truther will tell you everyone in the world is stupid for not going along with his cockamamie theory.

You've all heard it: The Democrats and Republicans are dumb for not seeing that their parties are controlled. Government workers are dumb for not seeing the inner cabal which is running everything. Structural engineers are weak-willed cowards for not revealing the truth about 9/11. This group of people is dumb; that group of people is dumb--on and on and on. Everyone in the world is stupid for not perceiving the plot which is so obvious to the brilliant Truthers.

So the Truthers are not singling out Arabs for abuse. If they're not insulting Arabs, they're insulting someone else.

[Henry Crun]

Hello there, xcuse my poor english...

CTs often forget, that there was an evolution of plans, they underestimate the motivation of these people and they ignore that the terrorists learnt from their "mistakes".

In 1994 Air France Flight 8969 was hijacked in Algier by the GIA. It was their objective to destroy the plane above Paris by explosives. This couldn´t be achieved, France Special Forces raided the plane and killed the terrorists in Marseille. In later analyses the jihadists came to the conclusion that this scenario wouldn´t have happened if their own people would be able to fly the plane by themselfes as reported by Omar Nasiri ("Inside the Jihad: My life with Al Qaeda").

The same guy writes extensively about his time in training-camps in Afghanistan, what he learned there, who taught him, what sort of people went there. They lived poorly, not even in caves - but they had a very effective education on how to kill people by any given weapon, self-made-explosives or poison.
A few guys he trained with are dead now or in custody. He writes about young boys who had to face their whole family shot by russians in the tchechenian war, boys who never laughed but trained extremely hard to take revenge.
Nasiri gave his information to european gouvernment organisations. They came to the concludion that some techniques he learnt were even new to them and really on a high level.
But of course he wrote a book, and books are maintream and in the simple world of twoofers just disinfo from the first word to the last. Really - why should the gouvernment allow books if there would be some truth in it?



The CT-believers underestimate the history of the modern jihad, I think sometimes the first thing they ever heard about al qaeda was after 9/11 - and even today reading newspapers or books isn´t too common among them (I like to see Dylan explaining some "ISI-Connection" - maybe he met someone read "Ghost Wars" by Steve Coll"...)


You all may know (if you read the commission report) the story Khaled Sheik Mohammed told about the original plan including taking over the control of planes and bring them to explosion and why this plan never was executed. To come along with a mixture of this idea and the failed WTC-bombing in 1993 is not too sophisticated.


These guys are not fools, they know what they want, why they want it and they have ideas how to get it - a unified, all sunni califate-state, a theocracy based on the law of their prophet (and on war with the shiite muslims).


In a german forum of twoofers a short time ago an airline-pilot tried to explaine to the members of the truth-movement that nothing the hijackers did was so extraordinary as the twoofers believed.
Of course he didn´t reach them with his educated, experienced knowledge. What twoofers cannot understand at first sight just can´t be true.

[Architect]

This group of people is dumb; that group of people is dumb--on and on and on. Everyone in the world is stupid for not perceiving the plot which is so obvious to the brilliant Truthers.


What amazes me most is their complete contempt for the professionals (engineers, architects, fire engineers, demolition specialists) who are undoubtedly the most qualified to comment on the NIST report. We're either idiots or stooges.

But this makes me wonder. Most of us who have been to University (and I know from other threads that this constitutes a majority of us) have a pretty good grasp of just how complicated most fields really are, and how much study is required.

Do the CTers fail to acknowledge this because they've never been through higher education and just don't understand? They've never seen what real study and learning are about, and think that the equivalent of O-grades or the Bac equip them to understand highly technical fields?

[ref]

I wonder how many people even know the difference between the Arabs and the Muslims.

[Architect]

Well a lot of eejits think that Iranians are Arabs, which is never a good start...

[Dog Town]

In a german forum of twoofers a short time ago an airline-pilot tried to explaine to the members of the truth-movement that nothing the hijackers did was so extraordinary as the twoofers believed.
Of course he didn´t reach them with his educated, experienced knowledge. What twoofers cannot understand at first sight just can´t be true.

That's classic denial. Funny, Oliver always claimed Germany, to be relatively CT free.

Welcome Henry!

DT

[uk_dave]

Well a lot of eejits think that Iranians are Arabs, which is never a good start...

(sighs) am I never to be allowed to forget?

Jeez, you eat one leg and people call you a cannibal.......
(name that film if you can!)

[Architect]

Big Bus?

[Larry Lovage]

Hello there, xcuse my poor english...
In your whole message there was nothing nearly as bad as having spelt it 'xcuse'.

We like your handle, signed Eccles, Minnie, Bluebottle and Grytpype-Thinne.

[aggle-rithm]

I don't think caves became too popular, untill after 911.

This is why I responded to this argument from one troofer with:

"Sure, they're in caves NOW. We chased them there!"

[aggle-rithm]

Well a lot of eejits think that Iranians are Arabs, which is never a good start...

Don't even bring up Indonesia, unless you want their brains to short-circuit.

[Architect]

What about all those bits of Yugoslavia that were Muslim and got clobbered by the Serbs?

[aggle-rithm]

(sighs) am I never to be allowed to forget?

Jeez, you eat one leg and people call you a cannibal.......



Mmmm.... leg....

[Henry Crun]

Thanks, DT, for the welcome!
CTs in germany are a subject for itself...
There seems to be not too much twoofers here - but if you find one, you´ve probably got one who believes nearly anything scandalous (and anti-american) enough. Moonhoax, AIDS, gold+currency, you name it.


And thank you, Larry, for your words. It´s hard to write while Minnie´s playing the saxophone. There was something else I wanted to say, but I forgot what it was... What was it..?...Hmm...

[Architect]

Welcome, Henry. Oder ist das willkommen?

[Henry Crun]

@ Architect
Rechtherzlichen Dank!

[ref]

Well a lot of eejits think that Iranians are Arabs, which is never a good start...

What is eejit? :rolleyes: Never heard that one.

I just picked on the fact that the whole discussion on the first page was about Arab pilots.

Well, the 9/11 pilots were Arabs but they were also Muslims. There are also Arab Christians. All Muslims are not Arabs and vice versa.

I may be offtopic again :) But I think when people talk about Arabs and terrorism, some may not consider that there are also other religions in the Arab world. But the countries very much involved in the terrorism discussions (Pakistan, Iran, Afghanistan) are not Arab countries. What they really would mean in their discussion, is actually fanatic Muslims. I don't think they mean fanatic Christian Arabs for example.

Not pointing to you guys, something that I have just come across generally;)

[einsteen]

And Arabic Christians call their god allah, it's the literal translation.

[slingblade]

This seems really crazy. People actually in the thread proving that there are arabs in this world that can fly planes. Really? There are hundred of millions of Arabs and over a billion Muslims in this world. You really have to spend time proving, that some of them can fly planes? How racist is that.

Not at all racist.

How, exactly, does one counter racist remarks and attitudes? By ignoring them and allowing them to spread unchecked, or by countering them with simple truth?

Many people don't realize they create a sense of "other" simply by thinking that any talk about other races must be itself a racist act.

The more accurate approach to this was provided by TAM who actually had something to say about the abilities of the specific people involved. That is what matters. Not the billion others.

Of course that matters more. But countering and debunking racism against an entire people matters, too.

[ref]

And Arabic Christians call their god allah, it's the literal translation.

Yes because that has nothing to do with religion, it is just the word in Arabic for God.

[ponderingturtle]

This is just more of the same...

"Thems ancient Egyptians were just too dang dumb and brown to build them there big 'ol pyramids... UFOs musta done it."

Racist ignorance pure and simple.

No the racist is when you say the Aryan descendants of Atlantis built them.

[Architect]

What is eejit? :rolleyes: Never heard that one.



EEDIOT, n. Gen. Middle Sc. form of Eng. idiot, a fool, simpleton. Also eedyit (Sh.10, Abd.2, m.Lth.1, Uls.4 1945); eejit (Ags.19, Fif.10 1945); eedit (Ags. 1922 J. B. Salmond Bawdee Bowden ii.; Slg.3 1942; Bwk.2 1949); eeduit, eedeet (Ags.17 1942); eedyut (Ags. 1893 F. Mackenzie Cruisie Sk. (1894) vi.); eadit; eediwat; eddiewut; eedyet (Uls. 1880 Patterson Gl. Ant. and Dwn.).

This is also a good one:


TUMSHIE , n. Also tumzie (Fif. 1921 T.S.D.C.). A jocular or colloq. name for a turnip (m. and s.Sc. 1973).
*Gsw. 1947 J. F. Hendry Fernie Brae 128:
Gee we hid a lot o’ fun pinchin’ totties an’ tumshie s.
[Prob. orig. a children’s deformation of Turmet (http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/snda4frames.php?xref=yes&searchtype=full&dregion=form&dtext=all&sset=1&fset=20&query=Turmet) or Eng. dial. form tummit with dim. -Sie (http://www.dsl.ac.uk/dsl/snda4frames.php?xref=yes&searchtype=full&dregion=form&dtext=all&sset=1&fset=20&query=-Sie) ending.]

[ref]

Not at all racist.

How, exactly, does one counter racist remarks and attitudes? By ignoring them and allowing them to spread unchecked, or by countering them with simple truth?

Many people don't realize they create a sense of "other" simply by thinking that any talk about other races must be itself a racist act.

Yep, the worst thing is to think that an Arab could not fly a plane. I reacted to that and just wondered, is it even necessary to actually prove that some people of the population of over 300 million can actually fly a plane. But yes, appreciate your comment.

[ponderingturtle]

Well a lot of eejits think that Iranians are Arabs, which is never a good start...

Is that an issue of ethnicity or geography?

[Architect]

Ethnicity. They're Persians or Farsi, depending upon nomenclature. But definitely not Arabs, in the same way that Canadians aren't American.

[ponderingturtle]

Ethnicity. They're Persians or Farsi, depending upon nomenclature. But definitely not Arabs, in the same way that Canadians aren't American.

Wow, Canadian and American are not ethnicities? Greek and Turkish or something would have been a better choice for ethnicity, as there is not any definite ethic difference from Canadian vs American as that is a national difference.

[Architect]

What about les Quebecois?

[T.A.M.]

Henry:

Welcome to the forum. Nice post, good points. Your english seems fine.

TAM

[ponderingturtle]

What about les Quebecois?

They might be an ethnic group with in Canada, but like say the Pennsylvania Dutch, could also be considered to be there original ethnic group.

[Architect]

Okay, fair enough. Greeks and Turks would have been a better example.

[Oliver]

Don´t you guys in here also think that this argument
resulted from a schock during 9/11 - an unprocessed
expierience which makes the Arab-Story too bizarr to
believe in it? :confused:

[Architect]

Oliver.....have u been drinking? Your normally impeccable English seems to be going tits-up!

[Oliver]

Oliver.....have u been drinking? Your normally impeccable English seems to be going tits-up!

*lol* I drank the rest of the New Year's Eve´s sparkling wine,
but my question was serious... :D

[ktesibios]

Don´t you guys in here also think that this argument
resulted from a schock during 9/11 - an unprocessed
expierience which makes the Arab-Story too bizarr to
believe in it? :confused:

This reminds me of something about the JFK assassination CTs. The idea that a charismatic President could be killed- just like that- by a pathetic loser like Oswald seems to be beyond some people's ability to comprehend. We want causes to be commensurate with their effects, so a shadowy conspiracy at the highest levels of government seems more appropriate to the event than the true cause does.

Similarly, a shadowy conspiracy at the highest levels of government as the cause of 9/11 preserves the dramatic unities better than the true cause- a conspiracy among a small group of politico-religious fanatics, most of whom the world had never heard of before.

The thing is, for those few seconds in Dallas the only special skills Oswald needed were those of a marksman, and he had them. For that hour or so in the skies over the USA, the only skills the hijackers needed were the ability to get past a rather lackadaisical security system, muscle their way into control of an airplane, and some rudimentary flying and navigation skills. And it's been well established that they had the intelligence and ability to acquire them.

[ConspiRaider]

This reminds me of something about the JFK assassination CTs. The idea that a charismatic President could be killed- just like that- by a pathetic loser like Oswald seems to be beyond some people's ability to comprehend. We want causes to be commensurate with their effects, so a shadowy conspiracy at the highest levels of government seems more appropriate to the event than the true cause does.

Similarly, a shadowy conspiracy at the highest levels of government as the cause of 9/11 preserves the dramatic unities better than the true cause- a conspiracy among a small group of politico-religious fanatics, most of whom the world had never heard of before.

The thing is, for those few seconds in Dallas the only special skills Oswald needed were those of a marksman, and he had them. For that hour or so in the skies over the USA, the only skills the hijackers needed were the ability to get past a rather lackadaisical security system, muscle their way into control of an airplane, and some rudimentary flying and navigation skills. And it's been well established that they had the intelligence and ability to acquire them.
Exactly!

I'm currently in a pitched battle over the JFK conspiracy on another message board and made a similar point. Not that it does any good for most. But there's always that hope - always - that you might be able to make a bit of sense to just a single reader. One who has not yet taken the CT blood oath.

[boloboffin]

The impression I get about the caveman thing is that the truthers are mocking a bit of pre-Afghanistan invasion lore about the Al-Qaeda Fortresses of Solitude that the media started pushing. They think blaming the Arabs is the racist thing.

[uk_dave]

You also have to consider that allowing for 'arabs in caves' to have carried out 9/11 shoots out of the water the whole NWO hypothesis because no all seeing, all powerful, somewhat supernaturally evil force controlling the world is going to be taken off guard by 'arabs in caves'.

So to prove that 9/11 was indeed carried out as stated in the official account means the NWO/illuminati/reptoid paranoia is dead..... and we're all out of a job.

[defaultdotxbe]

You also have to consider that allowing for 'arabs in caves' to have carried out 9/11 shoots out of the water the whole NWO hypothesis because no all seeing, all powerful, somewhat supernaturally evil force controlling the world is going to be taken off guard by 'arabs in caves'.

So to prove that 9/11 was indeed carried out as stated in the official account means the NWO/illuminati/reptoid paranoia is dead..... and we're all out of a job.
and thats the thing, to debunk 9/11 as an inside for some of these people you have to debunk the NWO/Big Brother/etc, naturally if big brother is watching everything 9/11 cant happen (be it cave arabs, or an organized international terror group) without some kind of inside help

i mean, your not just debunking an opinion on one event, your debunking an entire mindset, you need to debunk an entire life devoted to nothing but bunk, calling you a shill isnt a rebuttal, its a subconscious defense mechanism because the poor guy cant come to terms with the fact that hes wasted his life

[Checkmite]

I don't think caves became too popular, untill after 911.

Yes, it's true that the Al Qaeda "cave" reputation comes from the fact that they were forced to retreat into caves while being bombed by the US - post-9/11. But oh well.

I'm waiting for someone next to say that our government obviously intentionally planned to lose Vietnam from day one, because there's no way those pajama-wearing tunnel rats could've beaten us.

[Crazy Chainsaw]

They are not even natural caves but ancient mines some with traps built in, the comparison would be saying that NORAD was just a bunch of American Cave men.
The soviets tried and were unsuccessful in flushing them out of them, the British tried to conquer Pakistani tribal region and got there buts handed to them, for basically the same reason.
To say they are even Caves or that some of the most educated people in the Muslim world, were cave men is a Lie in itself.

[LashL]

Welcome to the forum, Henry :)

[jhunter1163]

Welcome, Henry. You'll find this a lively place.. :)

[Retrograde]

This group of people is dumb; that group of people is dumb--on and on and on.

Yeah, and half of them are below average!

The 9/11 attacks were brilliant in their simplicity: a lot of reconnaisance, a lot of planning, a bit of luck (if the weather was bad, if someone crucial didn't make a flight - just abort the mission and try again later, most likely) - and most importantly, the willingness to kill. So what's the downside if the buildings don't collapse: after the first hit they got just about every camera in New York trained on the towers to broadcast the second one live. That's what I call psy-ops. It's also within the abilities of western-educated, cosmopolitan, multi-lingual people with fierce dedications to their cause.

I never understood this thing about cave dwellers: I think it comes from thriller movies where the Evile (TM) Bad Guy lauches his nefarious attacks from an underground bunker. And as we know, those are all planned to an inch, depend on fantastic improbabilities and leave no room for unexpected contingencies.

Back to caves: I'd like to live in one. Of course, I'd have a generator nearby, so I can get some decent lighting, not to mention running my computers and so forth. And of course I'd have good satellite reception. Cool in summer, mild in winter - what's not to like.

[maccy]

and most importantly, the willingness to kill.

More importantly than that, the willingness to die. The expectations of everyone on the planes were that the hijackers would not put their own lives at risk. Once flight 93 was aware that this wasn't the case they stopped the plane from reaching its target. They were only going to be able to pull this off once (which is possibly why they decided on four targets rather than one). Post 9/11 passengers and crew on airlines are not going to allow a hijacking to succeed. Whatever Al-Qaeda's plans are now, they don't involve hijacking.

Nevertheless, a suicidal terrorist is much harder to stop.

The only consolation is that they can only strike once.

[T.A.M.]

If you read the 9/11 Commission Report, they are not quiet about the education of some of the hijackers, and lack of in others. As i mentioned, most of the Hamburg Cell were well educated. Same goes for the co-ordinators of the attacks. The Muscle Hijackers, however, appear to be mostly of lower level education (still most had high school), and were recruited it seems knowing that they were single, with no attachments (although I believe Omari had a wife and child).

TAM:)

[ConspiRaider]

I think they don't want to admit that CAVE/RAD was caught unawares while tracking space junk. Feddies coverup (God, another one).

MONITOR 1
...so there I am in the middle of the road. She's got my keys and tank top in one car and her mother's got my boxer shorts in the other and they both like take off! There I am buck nekked on Route 22 at...

MONITOR 2
Hey what's this? Kinda looks like a cave doesn't it?

MONITOR 1
Ah, probly just a big radar echo, we get that from space junk sometimes. Anyway there's this family of prairie dogs out in the desert, I can see 'em...

MONITOR 2
Hold it! What are those 19 blips, see em?!? They're movin' independent of orbital velocity!

MONITOR 1
Holy friggin' Toledo lookit that! It's like the cave door's opening or something...

MONITOR 2
LOOK OUT! THAT'S NO ORBITING CAVE, IT'S A BEAM WEAPON AIMED RIGHT AT US!!! WHAT'S THAT GLOWING?!? NO! NO DON'T! AAAAAaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh.......
I had to bump this because I wrote it as a reminder that on another board, a twoofer, upon my pointing out that no Beam Weapon of this magnitude exists, claimed that the Space Beam Weapon was "hidden" in the orbiting space junk. I kid you not...

[porch]

OBL - Degree in Civil Engineering 1979
- Degree in Economics and Pub Admin. 1981
Ayman al-Zawahiri (OBLs #1) - Physician
KSM - Mastermind of 9/11 - Mechanical Engineer
Mohamed Atta - Degree In architecture
Ziad Jarrah - half way through an Aeronautical Engineering Degree at time of 9/11

I could go on, but you get the point.

TAM:)


Please excuse the thread revival.

I swore I saw a very complete list of the education of the 9/11 hijackers and planners. I thought it was posted on these boards somewhere, or maybe a link from here to someone's blog? It seems I'm not so good at searching. Could anyone point me in the right direction?