World Cup of Woo

[bonavada]

would it be like the world series baseball?
i mean would there be any point in any other countries turning up?


:-]

BV

[Anti-sophist]

I don't get it.

Are you saying the US has woo on lockdown?

I wasn't that young when the Blue Jays won the World Series....

[Architect]

Naw, we all have a bit of Woo whereas only America and about 4 other countries have baseball!

[brodski]

The US has produced some world class woo, you're the spiritual home of CT's, UFO abductions and lots of new age carp. And your Fundy Xian woo is top notch. However you are well behind on much sCAM, especially homeopathy and dispute leading the field in UFO abductions, you really missed a trick with crop circles.
Now I'll indulge in a little national pride for a moment and tell you that, whilst the USA would make a string showing at the woo world cup, the British team consisting of just one extended family, (Mr & Mrs P. Windsor and children, of Westminster SW1A London) would have you beat hands down in almost any event you care to name.

[JimBenArm]

The US has produced some world class woo, you're the spiritual home of CT's, UFO abductions and lots of new age carp. And your Fundy Xian woo is top notch. However you are well behind on much sCAM, especially homeopathy and dispute leading the field in UFO abductions, you really missed a trick with crop circles.
Now I'll indulge in a little national pride for a moment and tell you that, whilst the USA would make a string showing at the woo world cup, the British team consisting of just one extended family, (Mr & Mrs P. Windsor and children, of Westminster SW1A London) would have you beat hands down in almost any event you care to name.

I'll match that with Fred Phelps & family of the Westboro Baptist Church. Just go to www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) for some real love.

Just be aware-being on this site raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.

[Anti-sophist]

I think the word "woo" is ill-defined and Amero-centric. I mean, if "believing" so strong that you stop taking your medicine and start praying is 'woo', then certainly walking into a bus station and blowing yourself up is woo. Just a far more insidious and viscous kind. We tend to ascribe 'woo-ness' to relatively harmless things, but there are plenty of places whose woo-ers are on a whole different level.

[chocolatepossum]

We also have David Icke, who would surely be a shoe in for the unhinged lunatic of the tournament award.

[maccy]

I'll match that with Fred Phelps & family of the Westboro Baptist Church. Just go to www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) for some real love.

Just be aware-being on this site raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.

Against your top pitcher Phelps, I'll play David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com).

Waiting in the wings we have Graham Hancock (http://www.grahamhancock.com/) and David Shayler (http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028).

[Loss Leader]

It always seems to me that when the TV shows want to find pure, unfettered woo with people lining up for blocks to believe in it, they always go to Russia. From the little girl who thinks she can x-ray people to those old sisters who can tell you anything about a photograph to some guy and his energy water - they're all in Russia. And they seem to all live in the same apartment complex.

[Overman]

I think the word "woo" is ill-defined and Amero-centric. I mean, if "believing" so strong that you stop taking your medicine and start praying is 'woo', then certainly walking into a bus station and blowing yourself up is woo. Just a far more insidious and viscous kind. We tend to ascribe 'woo-ness' to relatively harmless things, but there are plenty of places whose woo-ers are on a whole different level.

This is a very weird and very correct statement.

I think somewhere along the line the term 'suicide bomber' has become numb to many people.

This is actually a person, who believes so feverently about something, that they actually strap a bomb to themselves. F*****g A man. That is soooo ridicioulous! I do not know if there is anything, ANYTHING, that I would ever strap a bomb to myself for. It goes by in two words in the media, but this was a persons life that they just threw away! It is shocking to me.

F*** Religion. Any kind.

Interesting footnote - the word 'assissins' is an evolved form of the word 'hash hish ins'.

[JimBenArm]

Against your top pitcher Phelps, I'll play David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com).

Waiting in the wings we have Graham Hancock (http://www.grahamhancock.com/) and David Shayler (http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028).

These are some very, um, unique individuals. I've got to go scour my eyes with steel wool, now. Thanks!

[bonavada]

Naw, we all have a bit of Woo whereas only America and about 4 other countries have baseball!

ahh but our kids have always played rounders in school. a simplified, much more civillised version of baseball. the americans just nicked that and turned it into a complicated, cruel monster. complicated because you have to be a maths prof to understand the scoring/innings system, cruel because they use human flesh instead of wooden stumps.........

:-]

BV

[Free Thinkr]

The US has produced some world class woo, you're the spiritual home of CT's, UFO abductions and lots of new age carp.
Ugh! Tell me about it:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1684/newagecarpxr9.jpg

ETA:

When your fish are new-agers, you know it's bad; maybe there really is something in the water!

[chocolatepossum]

^^ that's pretty funny!

[brodski]

I'll match that with Fred Phelps & family of the Westboro Baptist Church. Just go to www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) for some real love.

Just be aware-being on this site raises your blood pressure to dangerous levels.

Bah Phelps has nothing on the Windsor's.
They believe they where ordained by God by accident of birth not only to rule, but also to defend God himself. They have a fondness for magic water, alcohol and lactose pills that will rival any outside of Germany or the Indian Subcontinent; they spout dangerous nonsense about "organic diets" and coffee enemas curing cancer, they are constantly decrying "modern society" by which they seem to mean anything which happened after 1642, including technology- which they seem to regards as universally dangerous, and at least one of them is convinced that we are being visited by little green men.
They constantly engage in all manner of bizarre rituals and rites, including taking one of our elected members of parliament hostage every year. Until recently they where tax protestors and they still hold that they (and many of their staff) are exempt from the law of the land.

So, who have you got to compete with that?

[JimBenArm]

Bah Phelps has nothing on the Windsor's.
They believe they where ordained by God by accident of birth not only to rule, but also to defend God himself. They have a fondness for magic water, alcohol and lactose pills that will rival any outside of Germany or the Indian Subcontinent; they spout dangerous nonsense about "organic diets" and coffee enemas curing cancer, they are constantly decrying "modern society" by which they seem to mean anything which happened after 1642, including technology- which they seem to regards as universally dangerous, and at least one of them is convinced that we are being visited by little green men.
They constantly engage in all manner of bizarre rituals and rites, including taking one of our elected members of parliament hostage every year. Until recently they where tax protestors and they still hold that they (and many of their staff) are exempt from the law of the land.

So, who have you got to compete with that?

I surrender!

[bonavada]

Bah Phelps has nothing on the Windsor's.
They believe they where ordained by God by accident of birth not only to rule, but also to defend God himself. They have a fondness for magic water, alcohol and lactose pills that will rival any outside of Germany or the Indian Subcontinent; they spout dangerous nonsense about "organic diets" and coffee enemas curing cancer, they are constantly decrying "modern society" by which they seem to mean anything which happened after 1642, including technology- which they seem to regards as universally dangerous, and at least one of them is convinced that we are being visited by little green men.
They constantly engage in all manner of bizarre rituals and rites, including taking one of our elected members of parliament hostage every year. Until recently they where tax protestors and they still hold that they (and many of their staff) are exempt from the law of the land.
So, who have you got to compete with that?

you forgot the serial adultery, talking to plants, singing to seals, fondness for nazi regalia, alcoholism, class b drugs indulgence............
i'm getting worried now.

BV

[jsfisher]

I'll match that with Fred Phelps & family of the Westboro Baptist Church. Just go to www.godhatesfags.com (http://www.godhatesfags.com) for some real love.
On first reading, I misread the URL to be "God hates FAQs". Sounding interesting.

[brodski]

you forgot the serial adultery, talking to plants, singing to seals, fondness for nazi regalia, alcoholism, class b drugs indulgence............
i'm getting worried now.

BV

I knew we'd won with the list I'd provided, I didn't want to rub it in too much, that would be neither sporting nor British.
And heaven forefend that I should mention "squishy-gate" and the tampon fantasy.
And even if the Windsors where disqualified from the British team for being German, I still think we could beat (or at least draw with) the Americans with woo if we restricted the competition to Heads of Government. Despite their media images, I reckon Blair has a very good chance of out woo-ing Bush.

[fuelair]

It always seems to me that when the TV shows want to find pure, unfettered woo with people lining up for blocks to believe in it, they always go to Russia. From the little girl who thinks she can x-ray people to those old sisters who can tell you anything about a photograph to some guy and his energy water - they're all in Russia. And they seem to all live in the same apartment complex.

Just looks the same - they found a design they liked and just kept on using it everywhere. Oh, those kooky commies!!!

[maccy]

Despite their media images, I reckon Blair has a very good chance of out woo-ing Bush.


Her relationship with Peter Foster's then-partner, the so-called "style guru" and former model Carole Caplin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carole_Caplin), has given rise to headlines in some newspapers. Caplin is credited with introducing Blair to various New Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Age) symbols and beliefs, including "magic pendants" known as "BioElectric Shields"[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherie_Blair#_note-6). The most controversial of Blair's New Age practices occurred when on holiday in Mexico. She and her husband, wearing only bathing costumes, took part in a rebirthing procedure that involved smearing mud and fruit over each others' bodies while sitting in a steam bath.[8] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherie_Blair#_note-7)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherie_Blair#Controversies

ETA:

Better still: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,856064,00.html

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Against your top pitcher Phelps, I'll play David Icke (http://www.davidicke.com).

Waiting in the wings we have Graham Hancock (http://www.grahamhancock.com/) and David Shayler (http://www.newstatesman.com/200609110028).
Oh pu-lease, we have Hovind batting cleanup against Icke. :P

[brodski]

Oh pu-lease, we have Hovind batting cleanup against Icke. :P


Not a chance, Hovind may believe that the world is 6 thousand years old and that dinosaurs and men once coexisted and that income tax is a conspiracy, Ike on the other hand thinks that dinosaurs and men still co exist, but the dinosaurs became shape shifting lizards who are secretly controlling the world and that everything is a conspiracy.
And then there's the stuff about turquoise shell suits, I'm still not sure where that fits in….

[Hutch]

Ah, like the real World Cup, you forget the rest of the World at your peril...

Take India, which has thousands of Swami's who can do most anything you could (dis)-believe in, each with hundreds, if not thousands of followers. Or the folks in Africa who still visit witch doctors to put hexes on their enemies. Or Iran and it's nutty President; he could make up a contending team all by himself.

Woo is worldwide; we just happen to have more computers than they do to spread ours around...


IMHO as always.

[Architect]

ahh but our kids have always played rounders in school. a simplified, much more civillised version of baseball. the americans just nicked that and turned it into a complicated, cruel monster. complicated because you have to be a maths prof to understand the scoring/innings system, cruel because they use human flesh instead of wooden stumps.........



You know given that rounders is played - by primary school children, we should add - in most of the former British Empire, then I bet we could put together a World Cup with more competitors than the whole of the Baseball "World Series" or whatever they call it.....;)

[brodski]

Ah, like the real World Cup, you forget the rest of the World at your peril...

Take India, which has thousands of Swami's who can do most anything you could (dis)-believe in, each with hundreds, if not thousands of followers. Or the folks in Africa who still visit witch doctors to put hexes on their enemies. Or Iran and it's nutty President; he could make up a contending team all by himself.

Woo is worldwide; we just happen to have more computers than they do to spread ours around...


IMHO as always.

That is very true Hutch, although I should add that not a month goes by when I don't have at least one leaflet pushed through my door offering the services of one witchdoctor or another offering to remove curses, or make me successful in love or business. Different brands of woo seem to have a remarkable ability to spread from culture to culture.

[Architect]

at least one leaflet pushed through my door offering the services of one witchdoctor


I think we're meant to use their proper title of "solicitor" or "lawyer" now, you know....

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

That's it. I'm calling in our ringer (http://www.lloydpye.com/).

[brodski]

That's it. I'm calling in our ringer (http://www.lloydpye.com/).

Now that there is some world class crazy. Nice.

[NickUK]

What is it with crazy folks and bad website aesthetics?

It's like they're on a mission to include as many animated gifs and frames into one page as possible. Ugh.

[brodski]

Ugh! Tell me about it:
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1684/newagecarpxr9.jpg

ETA:

When your fish are new-agers, you know it's bad; maybe there really is something in the water!

:D

It wouldn't be so bad if only they'd stop harping on about the dawning of the Age of Aquarium.

they really need to renounce their faith in mystical Cods (and Codesses) and go back to school, where they may find their plaice in the universe without relying on the sole to explain their existence. (OK I'll stop)

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

:D

It wouldn't be so bad if only they'd stop harping on about the dawning of the Age of Aquarium.

they really need to renounce their faith in mystical Cods (and Codesses) and go back to school, where they may find their plaice in the universe without relying on the sole to explain their existence. (OK I'll stop)
Please warn us if you have any more of those comments coming down the pike.

[Dr Adequate]

Gene "Timecube" Ray (http://www.timecube.com/) is American.

So are all Tax Protestors. Now that's some fine insanity.

[brodski]

Gene "Timecube" Ray (http://www.timecube.com/) is American.

So are all Tax Protestors. Now that's some fine insanity.

Stop helping the Colonials, i was hoping the Brittan could finally win something for once. :p

[progressquest]

Is everyone forgetting Hollywood? Come on, Tom Cruise may not be a top contender for Woo, but he certainly would have presence on the competition floor.

[Free Thinkr]

:D

It wouldn't be so bad if only they'd stop harping on about the dawning of the Age of Aquarium.
This got a bona-fide LOL out of me.

[CynicalSkeptic]

Gene "Timecube" Ray (http://www.timecube.com/) is American.

Which reminds me of Alex "live forever" Chiu (http://www.liveforevernow.com/) (also 'Merkin).

[ConspiRaider]

One of the advantages we in Yankland have is the vast ripple effects wrought by Our Leaders who do spew woo.

Like our current Leader. Who just "loves" science so much. The guy who insists the jury is still out on evolution. Who assigns snot-nosed kids to suppress the conclusions of NASA scientists on things like global warming. Who won't allow Grand Canyon employees to let on about the estimated age of that geologic formation.

When he and his merry band do woo - even the polar bears shudder.

[GlennB]

That's it. I'm calling in our ringer (http://www.lloydpye.com/).

A quick look down the home page to a book called "Everything You Know Is Wrong" tells me you're right.

[brodski]

One of the advantages we in Yankland have is the vast ripple effects wrought by Our Leaders who do spew woo.

Like our current Leader. Who just "loves" science so much. The guy who insists the jury is still out on evolution. Who assigns snot-nosed kids to suppress the conclusions of NASA scientists on things like global warming. Who won't allow Grand Canyon employees let on about the estimated age of that geologic formation.

When he and his merry band do woo - even the polar bears shudder.
Ill point you to this post, read the 2nd link, there's some gold there (when the douser is asked how he knows that the rubble which he bought off of a farmer was a neolithic stone circle...)
Our Head of Government could out woo yours, and our Head of State (and her family) could out woo both of them.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherie_Blair#Controversies

ETA:

Better still: http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,856064,00.html

[ConspiRaider]

Ill point you to this post, read the 2nd link, there's some gold there (when the douser is asked how he knows that the rubble which he bought off of a farmer was a neolithic stone circle...)
Our Head of Government could out woo yours, and our Head of State (and her family) could out woo both of them.
Very illuminating stuff. I particularly liked the Fruit and Mud rebirthing bit that Tony and Cherie Blair did in that steam bath. They compare her to our Hillary, but I dunno...

The Fruit and Mud thing is a wee bit messy but I like the other guy with the Neoconolithic Stones and their power-harnessing, hair-growing qualities.

All this, and they govern too? Woo Hoo!

[WildCat]

When your fish are new-agers, you know it's bad; maybe there really is something in the water!
Yeah, but the new-age carp came from Europe. And hardly anyone likes them here.

[WildCat]

Who won't allow Grand Canyon employees to let on about the estimated age of that geologic formation.
Huh?

[ConspiRaider]

Huh?
I just luv Gorge Bush so much because he is SOO sciency and that's what is a cornerstone of true skepticism. What a hero of mine is he.

Have a read:
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801

[WildCat]

I just luv Gorge Bush so much because he is SOO sciency and that's what is a cornerstone of true skepticism. What a hero of mine is he.

Have a read:
http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801
PEER is 100% wrong on their assertion that the NPS can't state the age of the canyon.

Example 1 (http://www.nps.gov/grca/naturescience/naturalfeaturesandecosystems.htm):
Geologic formations such as gneiss and schist found at the bottom of the Canyon date back 1,800 million years.
Example 2 (http://www.nps.gov/grca/faqs.htm#old):
The oldest rocks at the canyon bottom are close to 2000 million years old. The Canyon itself - an erosional feature - has formed only in the past five or six million years. Geologically speaking, Grand Canyon is very young.
PEER is just making a stink about a book sold in the gift shop. I doubt that Bush personally ordered it to be sold there.

[CBVan]

Hmmm. All this woo coming from the heads of state had me thinking: I think its high time we elected a skeptic to office. I don't have to agree with their positions, I just think a healthy dose of critical thinking might shake things up a bit.

[ConspiRaider]

PEER is 100% wrong on their assertion that the NPS can't state the age of the canyon.

Example (http://www.nps.gov/grca/naturescience/naturalfeaturesandecosystems.htm):

PEER is just making a stink about a book sold in the book store.
Read the story, please. If asked by the public, park employees are not allowed to disclose the age that geologists have determined for the Grand Canyon.

Because some idiot creationist wrote a book.

If someone writes a book that a Giant Owl scratched out the Grand Canyon while looking for Heavenly Diamonds thought to be buried under it - should that book be allowed to share shelf space with the creationist book?

This Grand Canyon belongs to US - the people of the United States. It's public land.

Why not fill the Grand Canyon library with a million books from a million different religious interpretations explaining its origin?

If you're not going to allow a million - then you cannot allow the one either. At least according to the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. But Bush does not like the U.S. Constitution. Which is also why he just authorized himself to open the mail of Americans, without a warrant, if he thinks it is "necessary". What a swell guy. Loves both science AND privacy, both!

[Architect]

Read the story, please. If asked by the public, park employees are not allowed to disclose the age that geologists have determined for the Grand Canyon.




Please, please, please tell me that this can't be true! :eek:

[ConspiRaider]

Hmmm. All this woo coming from the heads of state had me thinking: I think its high time we elected a skeptic to office. I don't have to agree with their positions, I just think a healthy dose of critical thinking might shake things up a bit.
Yep! I'd go for Randi as President of the USA but I think he was born Canadian? That's a hard disqualifier. Article 2 of the U.S. Constitution.

Gravy? You need a campaign manager?

[Foolmewunz]

Sorry, guys.... you all lose. You're talking modern woo! Piffling 1500 years of "modern" woo!


Can I hear from Roborama and Wollery on this subject! China has over 4000 years of woo-ingrained culture; so much so that the people don't even realize how it dominates their lives!

IMHO, Woo is just your imperialist revisionist western spelling of Wu. Asia is Wu Central! China? India? Thailand? (Where do your heavyweights come to howl at the moon?)
Do any of you have a corporate Feng Shui Master under contract? I cannot move my desk without having some necromancer come in and check the energy flows!
Has your staff threatened to quit because someone moved furniture around withouth calling in the Feng Shui guy?
Does one of your senior managers call in late because her uncle's ghost kept her up all night playing tricks?
Have any of your staff gone into debt with a loan shark so they can have enough to buy dinner for the Jade Emperor (a deity)?
Does the largest bank in town buy a plot of land and turn it into a park so that no one can build in front of them and cut off their Chi? (HSBC Hong Kong did this.)
Does your girlfriend think that her mom's alzheimer's is a result of a curse that a cousin paid a local shaman to put on her?
I'll save the rest for rebuttal, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, but for now (snapping his red suspenders) "I rest my case, your honor!"

[uk_dave]

I'll save the rest for rebuttal, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, but for now (snapping his red suspenders) "I rest my case, your honor!"

Is it the weekend already? :eek:

[brodski]

Is it the weekend already? :eek:

Why does this come to mind?
J2LIrAvNN2M

[Architect]

Note to Americans: In the UK, "Suspenders" does not mean "Braces" - i.e. those things that hold yer trousers up.










...and trousers are what you call "pants", I believe.

[WildCat]

Read the story, please. If asked by the public, park employees are not allowed to disclose the age that geologists have determined for the Grand Canyon.

Because some idiot creationist wrote a book.
Could you quote the relevant portion of the article (http://www.peer.org/news/news_id.php?row_id=801) that supports this assertion? I can't find it.

If someone writes a book that a Giant Owl scratched out the Grand Canyon while looking for Heavenly Diamonds thought to be buried under it - should that book be allowed to share shelf space with the creationist book?
What if it's a book about the local Indian tribes religious beliefs on the canyon?

This Grand Canyon belongs to US - the people of the United States. It's public land.

Why not fill the Grand Canyon library with a million books from a million different religious interpretations explaining its origin?

If you're not going to allow a million - then you cannot allow the one either. At least according to the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. But Bush does not like the U.S. Constitution. Which is also why he just authorized himself to open the mail of Americans, without a warrant, if he thinks it is "necessary". What a swell guy. Loves both science AND privacy, both!
It's 1 book in a gift shop! The views are those of the author, not the NPS. Not my cup of tea, but if the NPS can make a few extra $$ off young earth creationist idiots why the hell not.

Show evidence that NPS employees can't speak about the age of the Grand Canyon, and I'll get riled.

BTW, there's a similar thread at TOP. I'm just shamelessly stealing material from Luke T. :boxedin:

eta: sorry for the hijack, maybe should split into Politics.

[ConspiRaider]

Note to Americans: In the UK, "Suspenders" does not mean "Braces" - i.e. those things that hold yer trousers up.
Thanks Architect. Youse guys. Well NOW the video makes sense. Because before, I was picturing Hec hitching up his pants before helping hisself to a dipper of corn squeezins...

[Free Thinkr]

This Grand Canyon belongs to US - the people of the United States. It's public land.

Why not fill the Grand Canyon library with a million books from a million different religious interpretations explaining its origin?

If you're not going to allow a million - then you cannot allow the one either. At least according to the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.
Nonsense. There was no law passed on this issue; the FA does not apply here. I don't like religious books of any type, and I particularly hate religious books masquerading as science, and I hate even more that they're offered at one of our national landmarks, but I still don't see the need to lie about what the FA does or does not say. You hate Bush, we get it; no need to misrepresent our laws to state your opinion.

[Quad4_72]

I think for the world cup of woos, I would elect one of my friends. He thinks that the super bowl and NFL are all staged and pre-planned out.

[Foolmewunz]

Note to Americans: In the UK, "Suspenders" does not mean "Braces" - i.e. those things that hold yer trousers up.


I'm usually pretty good on UK/American translations (boot, lift, crisps, chemist, windscreen, braces, pullover, jumper, etc....). Have to admit I wasn't aware that suspender = garter, though. Glad I could inadvertently throw a chuckle into the works.

Why is a discussion of "WOO" in Conspiracy Theories? I know Lizard Guy and all that, but generally woo is a term more readily applied to paranormal nonsense, new age, occultism, etc....

[WildCat]

Note to Americans: In the UK, "Suspenders" does not mean "Braces" - i.e. those things that hold yer trousers up.



I wish I could resist this, but I can't stop myself...



In the US, "braces" are what you put on your kids teeth, so they don't grow up looking like Brits... :runaway

[Foolmewunz]

I wish I could resist this, but I can't stop myself...



In the US, "braces" are what you put on your kids teeth, so they don't grow up looking like Brits... :runaway

Well, in pun-world, you're definitely going to Hell, Wildcat! I'm going with you for laughing so hard, though!

[ConspiRaider]

Nonsense. There was no law passed on this issue; the FA does not apply here. I don't like religious books of any type, and I particularly hate religious books masquerading as science, and I hate even more that they're offered at one of our national landmarks, but I still don't see the need to lie about what the FA does or does not say. You hate Bush, we get it; no need to misrepresent our laws to state your opinion.
And you love Bush and we get that. You, and 30% of polled Americans.

Who is "lying" about the First Amendment? Here it is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If you cannot see that a publicly owned National Park allowing a religious book to be sold in its gift shop is treading on the First Amendment, then maybe you need to pull out that document and review the whole thing.

I have NO PROBLEM with Vail selling his religious book on his own private property or in private bookstores or anything privately held. That's free enterprise, and I'm for that. But get it OUT OF my Grand Canyon. I own the Grand Canyon, along with the rest of the U.S. citizenry. When the people I hire (vote for) to represent me allow his book to be sold there, they are "respecting an establishment of religion". That goes against my wishes, but more importantly, against the law.

[Architect]

In the US, "braces" are what you put on your kids teeth, so they don't grow up looking like Brits... :runaway

:eek: Sir, how dare you!!! Swords at dawn!!

Anyway, same here. The things that get the crap beaten out of you at school for looking like Jaws from James Bond!

[Blue Mountain]

Our Head of Government could out woo yours, and our Head of State (and her family) could out woo both of them.

I know Charles get a lot of flack on these boards for his New Age beliefs, and I think Diana dabbled in it too (IIRC, she had a psychic or astrologer she consulted, who unfortunately didn't see as far as a dark tunnel in Paris.)

I haven't heard much about the Queen's beliefs, nor have I heard anything about William and Harry. I know the young princes avoid the spotlight, except when it get shone on them--like when Harry starts acting like a clueless git. Have there been any rumours about what they tend towards on these matters?

[Architect]

I know Charles get a lot of flack on these boards for his New Age beliefs, and I think Diana dabbled in it too (IIRC, she had a psychic or astrologer she consulted, who unfortunately didn't see as far as a dark tunnel in Paris.)


It has to be remembered that, as far as we could tell, Diana was thick as 2 short planks.

Anyway, Phil the Greek's racist outbursts on state visits are much more entertaining that the whole Prince Charles' "boiled egg" thing.

[gumboot]

I'm sorry but the examples given by the Brits and Yanks are pathetic. You guys couldn't win a world woo competition if you tried.

In your countries (mine too) woo people are highly noted for their woo-ness because they're odd, weird, the EXCEPTION.

How about all those nations where woo isn't exceptional because EVERYONE believes it?

We've had some excellent examples here. There's nations that have been hardcore practising woo for millenia. A few reptoid aliens and alternative methods of cleaning one's skin doesn't cut the mustard at all.

Personally my money is on China for sheer volume and history, but there's some real contenders in Africa and the Mid-east as well.

The USA and UK teams wouldn't even survive the first round.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Interesting footnote - the word 'assissins' is an evolved form of the word 'hash hish ins'.


I assume you're referring to the word "assassin" named after the "Hashshashin" - a fanatic militant sect of Ismaili Muslims c.8th - 14th C.

-Gumboot

[ConspiRaider]

I'm sorry but the examples given by the Brits and Yanks are pathetic. You guys couldn't win a world woo competition if you tried.

In your countries (mine too) woo people are highly noted for their woo-ness because they're odd, weird, the EXCEPTION.

How about all those nations where woo isn't exceptional because EVERYONE believes it?

We've had some excellent examples here. There's nations that have been hardcore practising woo for millenia. A few reptoid aliens and alternative methods of cleaning one's skin doesn't cut the mustard at all.

Personally my money is on China for sheer volume and history, but there's some real contenders in Africa and the Mid-east as well.

The USA and UK teams wouldn't even survive the first round.

-Gumboot
I think you're probably right.

And woo is dangerous, or has devastating consequences, which is why it's an honorable activity to fight woo.

Small example: Ground up ivory is considered an aphrodisiac in many Asian nations. Carved ivory items are said to impart power. Pure woo. Because of that, elephants are hunted down and shot just so poachers can saw off their tusks and sell them.

[Free Thinkr]

And you love Bush and we get that.
I sure do; but probably not the bush you're thinking.

You, and 30% of polled Americans.I'd say it's closer to 50%. ;)

Who is "lying" about the First Amendment? Here it is:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

If you cannot see that a publicly owned National Park allowing a religious book to be sold in its gift shop is treading on the First Amendment, then maybe you need to pull out that document and review the whole thing.How is allowing a religious book in a National Park tantamount to making a law respecting the establishment of religion? It's not. Again, the idea doesn't thrill me either, but there's no need to make shnizzle up.

I have NO PROBLEM with Vail selling his religious book on his own private property or in private bookstores or anything privately held. That's free enterprise, and I'm for that. But get it OUT OF my Grand Canyon. I own the Grand Canyon, along with the rest of the U.S. citizenry. When the people I hire (vote for) to represent me allow his book to be sold there, they are "respecting an establishment of religion". That goes against my wishes, but more importantly, against the law.They're not passing any law respecting an establishment of religion, which is what the FA addresses. If Congress passed a law requiring all bookstores to carry that book or something similar, you'd have a point. You seem to be calling for a law banning such books from public property, which ironically, would be a law respecting an establishment of religion.

[Free Thinkr]

Personally my money is on China for sheer volume and history, but there's some real contenders in Africa and the Mid-east as well.

The USA and UK teams wouldn't even survive the first round.

-Gumboot
That's funny, I was going to post on how I thought China needs mention; tigers will likely go extinct fairly soon, largely because there is great demand for ground up tiger bone.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

That's funny, I was going to post on how I thought China needs mention; tigers will likely go extinct fairly soon, largely because there is great demand for ground up tiger bone.
That, and tiger wang soup.

[ConspiRaider]

They're not passing any law respecting an establishment of religion, which is what the FA addresses. If Congress passed a law requiring all bookstores to carry that book or something similar, you'd have a point. You seem to be calling for a law banning such books from public property, which ironically, would be a law respecting an establishment of religion.
Hi FT -

One of the uses of the U.S. Constitution is to act as a set of guidelines for the restriction of what the Federal government can, and cannot do.

The Federal government, by law, cannot establish any religion, and cannot endorse any particular religion. This restriction extends to those areas over which it has direct control. At the same time, the Feds cannot prevent any citizen from practicing any religion within private domains. This is simple - and brilliant.

The Grand Canyon is public property - owned by the U.S. citizenry, and managed by the government acting as representatives of the people. This Vail book issue is context-based. Books and material on the Grand Canyon are to deal with its history and its science and its geology and so forth. By allowing a religious fantasy to be sold in the Grand Canyon's gift shop, the Feds are opening a Pandora's box. You know Vail's fantasy, right? He writes that the Grand Canyon was formed by Noah's Flood! Just a scant 4,500 years ago, since, of course, the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

Personally, I believe the Grand Canyon was scratched out by the Great Galactic Owl, over the long Owloween Weekend just about 2,763 years ago. Each galaxy is ruled by a Giant Owl with a wingspan of 14 astronomical units. That dastardly weekend, the Milky Way Owl was stood up on a date by the Andromeda Owl and so he gouged out a canyon in frustration on our Little Blue Planet. Which is completely understandable.

Now: If Vail can sell his fantasy to the visitors at the Grand Canyon, then the Feds have absolutely no right to refuse to carry a book with my fantasy on the Grand Canyon's formation. Or yours. Or ANYONE'S. The Feds have no right to determine which religion, or fantasy, is "right". Therefore they must accept all - or none.

I am strenuously in favor of Vail selling his fantasy through private means. But I don't want to see it in my Grand Canyon. Those are MY taxes that I've paid over 30 years of work that have helped finance the upkeep, operation and maintenance of the Grand Canyon. We Yanks own that ditch. And the Feds are out of line in their allowing the selling of religious fantasies describing the Canyon's formation - on its premises.

At least that's the way I see it, as do others.

[gumboot]

That's funny, I was going to post on how I thought China needs mention; tigers will likely go extinct fairly soon, largely because there is great demand for ground up tiger bone.


A friend of mine is working on changing that. :) It's a simple case of convincing the plebians that live tiger = more $$$ than dead tiger. It worked in Southern Africa with the lions.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Now: If Vail can sell his fantasy to the visitors at the Grand Canyon, then the Feds have absolutely no right to refuse to carry a book with my fantasy on the Grand Canyon's formation. Or yours. Or ANYONE'S. The Feds have no right to determine which religion, or fantasy, is "right". Therefore they must accept all - or none.


Has anyone else attempted to sell another alternate version of the canyon's creation in the store and been rejected?

-Gumboot

[Foolmewunz]

Gumboot/Free Thnkr

Jeez, I'm like Rodney Dangerfield all of a sudden? See post 50, above.
Someone mentioned China.

:spjimlad: :spjimlad:

[bonavada]

Why is a discussion of "WOO" in Conspiracy Theories? I know Lizard Guy and all that, but generally woo is a term more readily applied to paranormal nonsense, new age, occultism, etc....

sorry for my relative newbieness, i thought the "woo" badge was stitched onto the lapels of most of the dowsers, psychics, tree-huggers etc and the "nothing would convince me otherwise" CT'ers.
ie compare sylvia browne and dylan avery, doesn't seem that much difference to me. if both could see a buck or two in each others "profession" they would swap in an instant.

BV

[Foolmewunz]

sorry for my relative newbieness, i thought the "woo" badge was stitched onto the lapels of most of the dowsers, psychics, tree-huggers etc and the "nothing would convince me otherwise" CT'ers.
ie compare sylvia browne and dylan avery, doesn't seem that much difference to me. if both could see a buck or two in each others "profession" they would swap in an instant.

BV

Not a problem - you get equally interested/interesting people on the CT thread, but I was leaning more towards "woo as woo".... CT woo is a convenient sidebar nuttiness (unless it's someone like David Icke who is a woo nutter first and CTer second).

I liked the idea of the thread..... I've seen introductory posts (Welcome New Whatevers Thread) from people India in and Mexico (and myself in Hong Kong) all claiming we're in a place that's more woo-ish than all others.

No one's yet spoken up for Haiti!
Brasil/Brazil?
Taos?
New Orleans?
Zimbabwe? (Africa has been mentioned above but Zimbabwe's been in the news...)

And you can even defend Western Woo.... Think about The Inquistion... what was more woo than the doctrine of the times?

Anyhow - if the mods want to move it, they can, of course. It's doing quite nicely here, though.

[Free Thinkr]

Hi FT -

One of the uses of the U.S. Constitution is to act as a set of guidelines for the restriction of what the Federal government can, and cannot do.

The Federal government, by law, cannot establish any religion, and cannot endorse any particular religion.
Yes and no. The government cannot establish any religion, and in my reading at least, pass any law regarding a religious establishment. As for "endorsing" a religion, I'm not aware of any legal restriction. I don't know exactly what would even constitute an endorsement.

The Grand Canyon is public property - owned by the U.S. citizenry, and managed by the government acting as representatives of the people. This Vail book issue is context-based. Books and material on the Grand Canyon are to deal with its history and its science and its geology and so forth. By allowing a religious fantasy to be sold in the Grand Canyon's gift shop, the Feds are opening a Pandora's box. You know Vail's fantasy, right? He writes that the Grand Canyon was formed by Noah's Flood! Just a scant 4,500 years ago, since, of course, the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

Personally, I believe the Grand Canyon was scratched out by the Great Galactic Owl, over the long Owloween Weekend just about 2,763 years ago. Each galaxy is ruled by a Giant Owl with a wingspan of 14 astronomical units. That dastardly weekend, the Milky Way Owl was stood up on a date by the Andromeda Owl and so he gouged out a canyon in frustration on our Little Blue Planet. Which is completely understandable.

Now: If Vail can sell his fantasy to the visitors at the Grand Canyon, then the Feds have absolutely no right to refuse to carry a book with my fantasy on the Grand Canyon's formation. Or yours. Or ANYONE'S. The Feds have no right to determine which religion, or fantasy, is "right". Therefore they must accept all - or none.Again, nonsense. They can choose to sell whatever books they please. Now, your wacky theory may be no more wacky that Vail's, but Vail's (sadly) has an audience. Like another poster pointed out: so long as there's going to be retards lining up to buy such garbage, the government might just as well collect their money and use it to fund Park upkeep.

I am strenuously in favor of Vail selling his fantasy through private means. But I don't want to see it in my Grand Canyon. Those are MY taxes that I've paid over 30 years of work that have helped finance the upkeep, operation and maintenance of the Grand Canyon. We Yanks own that ditch. And the Feds are out of line in their allowing the selling of religious fantasies describing the Canyon's formation - on its premises.

At least that's the way I see it, as do others.I used to get really bothered about this sort of thing, but it's pointless. There's no legal precedent to do anything about it, and frankly, the nutters are citizens too. They'd no doubt argue that the notion that the grand canyon was carved out by millions of years of erosion by the Colorado river to be "just a theory." I know that's eye-roll inducing, but it's technically true. Eff 'em; their money is green too.

[CynicalSkeptic]

I'll vote for Africa. At least for some of the most harmful woo. Did you know that having sex with a virgin cures AIDS? (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25806)

[ConspiRaider]

Has anyone else attempted to sell another alternate version of the canyon's creation in the store and been rejected?

-Gumboot
The word in the story is that 22 other books were recently submitted for approval, and rejected. I'm still running that down, as to their content...

[rikzilla]

I'm sorry but the examples given by the Brits and Yanks are pathetic. You guys couldn't win a world woo competition if you tried.

In your countries (mine too) woo people are highly noted for their woo-ness because they're odd, weird, the EXCEPTION.

How about all those nations where woo isn't exceptional because EVERYONE believes it?

We've had some excellent examples here. There's nations that have been hardcore practising woo for millenia. A few reptoid aliens and alternative methods of cleaning one's skin doesn't cut the mustard at all.

Personally my money is on China for sheer volume and history, but there's some real contenders in Africa and the Mid-east as well.

The USA and UK teams wouldn't even survive the first round.

-Gumboot

Excellent point. In Mali they have a special investigative unit of the police that investigates witchcraft. I can't find the original link to that story, but found this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/nolpda/ukfs_news/hi/newsid_3663000/3663292.stm) which is far more disturbing.

Yes in some parts of the world "woo" defines existence itself. Next time we think about sending money or food to these parts of the world we may want to include a little $$ for basic reality-based education.


-z

[njslim]

I'll vote for Africa. At least for some of the most harmful woo. Did you know that having sex with a virgin cures AIDS?

But where do you find a virgin these days? I mean once its done the virgin
is all used up - have to go out and find a new one each time.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Dragons, unicorns, virgins and other mythical beings.

[ConspiRaider]

Yes and no. The government cannot establish any religion, and in my reading at least, pass any law regarding a religious establishment. As for "endorsing" a religion, I'm not aware of any legal restriction. I don't know exactly what would even constitute an endorsement.

Again, nonsense. They can choose to sell whatever books they please. Now, your wacky theory may be no more wacky that Vail's, but Vail's (sadly) has an audience. Like another poster pointed out: so long as there's going to be retards lining up to buy such garbage, the government might just as well collect their money and use it to fund Park upkeep.

I used to get really bothered about this sort of thing, but it's pointless. There's no legal precedent to do anything about it, and frankly, the nutters are citizens too. They'd no doubt argue that the notion that the grand canyon was carved out by millions of years of erosion by the Colorado river to be "just a theory." I know that's eye-roll inducing, but it's technically true. Eff 'em; their money is green too.
Well, our esteemed James Randi mentions the Grand Canyon item in this week's SWIFT issue.

Amazing. I had no idea Randi's thoughts on this, and mine, would be so similar.

[delphi_ote]

I do not know if there is anything, ANYTHING, that I would ever strap a bomb to myself for.
If it would somehow convince the entire world of the insanity of a world view that encourages this type of behavior, I'd do it in a heartbeat. My life to spare hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent young lives? There's no question.

See? It's not conviction or compassion we lack. It's insanity.

[maccy]

I'm wondering if there's much by the way of paranoid conspiracy woo that's not based around the US Government.

In the UK there's some 7/7 stuff and Princess Di, but that seems to be overshadowed by 9/11 and JFK (we do love US cultural imports - and pretending we're above them).

Is there, for example, a Ghandi CT in India?

[CBVan]

I'd frankly be surprized if there wasn't a Ghandi conspiracy theory in the United States.

[Architect]

Well, you've got so many Ghandis to choose from.


Actually, Indira (sp?) was the victim of an assassination conspiracy, wasn't she?

[LashL]

bump

[A W Smith]

did you say world cup?

GOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllll

[Bell]

did you say world cup?

GOOooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllll

It was a fixed match.