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gumboot
6th January 2007, 03:40 AM
Just curious, has anyone heard any CTs put forward regarding this Indonesian 737 that disappeared 5 days ago?

5 days seems a very long time, IMHO, for an aircraft as big as a 737 to still be missing, even in Indonesia.

-Gumboot

Brainache
6th January 2007, 03:46 AM
Haven't heard about it, but I'm willing to bet it involves JOOOS and the US Gubmint. Or at the very least, a few shape shifting reptoid aliens.

apathoid
6th January 2007, 04:19 AM
Just curious, has anyone heard any CTs put forward regarding this Indonesian 737 that disappeared 5 days ago?

5 days seems a very long time, IMHO, for an aircraft as big as a 737 to still be missing, even in Indonesia.

-Gumboot

No CTs, but the best hypothesis is that the airplane ran its tanks dry somewhere off the coast and was possibly a long way off course due to an internal nav error. Apparently, the aircraft that went down has a history of Inertial Reference System(IRS) faults, and if the pilots didn't have the VOR receivers autotuning - which would periodically update IRS position through triangulation of 2 known VOR/DMEs - then the normal IRS drift error could be compounded with a known bad computer. Who knows just how far off course the plane was, but its clear the search teams arent even in the ballpark.

IMO, its a disgrace that the Indonesian rescue(now recovery) teams can't even locate the wreckage, which is likely floating.

gumboot
6th January 2007, 04:25 AM
IMO, its a disgrace that the Indonesian rescue(now recovery) teams can't even locate the wreckage, which is likely floating.


Well that's what I thought too. Especially given that a Singapore satellite had a position from which a distress call was received, so surely the aircraft will be somewhere near that position.

Would the CVR and FDR automatically transmit some sort of emergency beacon signal?

-Gumboot

Oliver
6th January 2007, 04:43 AM
The last thing i heard was that they´re about to stop the
search for the plane and that the "Emergency-Signal" they
allegedly received was a Hoax.

I wonder what Killtown would say about it.

apathoid
6th January 2007, 04:45 AM
Well that's what I thought too. Especially given that a Singapore satellite had a position from which a distress call was received, so surely the aircraft will be somewhere near that position.

Would the CVR and FDR automatically transmit some sort of emergency beacon signal?

-Gumboot

Was there a distress call(a mayday)? I only heard that they supposedly received the ELT signals.

Most airlines(all US carriers) have ELT/ULBs. They transmit on the universal emergency freqs(121.5/243/406 MHz) and should be received by any aircraft or boat listening on those freqs within a radius of 100 + miles. The ULB is usally affixed to the FDR and is saltwater activated.The ELT is in the cockpit and is G-force activated. I have no idea how long the batteries are supposed to last, but I dont think its 5 days....

gumboot
6th January 2007, 05:05 AM
Was there a distress call(a mayday)? I only heard that they supposedly received the ELT signals.


This is what our media (http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/488120/952517) is saying:

A Singapore satellite picked up distress signals from the plane on Tuesday and relayed them to Jakarta because the world's fourth-most-populous country lacked the equipment, said Ikhsan Tatang, a senior official at Indonesia's transport ministry.

-Gumboot

apathoid
6th January 2007, 05:23 AM
We have been ignoring this thing and keep flying just to make profits," said Joseph Umar Hadi from the parliament's transport commission, adding that plane checks were prone to doctoring.

"There are also some airplanes in Indonesia that use a small amount of fuel to cut costs. This is dangerous," he said.

Indonesian aviation workers are poorly trained, experts say.

Remind me to never fly on an Indonesian carrier, they sound almost as bad as some of the East African airlines.

Officials said at least four Indonesian fixed-wing military planes, a Singapore air force Fokker-50 and a helicopter were looking for the missing airliner along with army and police ground teams and civilian and navy ships.
Indonesia has 220 million people and thats all they can muster for rescue operation? That is worse than pathetic, its no wonder they havent found anything....:mad:

gumboot
6th January 2007, 05:32 AM
Indonesia has 220 million people and thats all they can muster for rescue operation? That is worse than pathetic, its no wonder they havent found anything....:mad:


From a quick look at the Indonesian Airforce website (http://www.scramble.nl/id.htm) they seem to have two specialist Search and Rescue squadrons operating 4 different types of aircraft.

-Gumboot

Oliver
6th January 2007, 05:33 AM
Remind me to never fly on an Indonesian carrier, they sound almost as bad as some of the East African airlines.


Indonesia has 220 million people and thats all they can muster for rescue operation? That is worse than pathetic, its no wonder they havent found anything....:mad:

But at least we learn how conspiracy theories emerge:

Tuesday: 12 survivors reported - later proven false
Wednesday: Report about crash into the ocean - disclaimed on Thursday
Friday: Report about possible hijacking

Architect
6th January 2007, 07:03 AM
Lads, when all's done it's still a third world nation.......


....I mean, hell, they've still got ruddy pirates!

Bell
6th January 2007, 07:36 AM
Lads, when all's done it's still a third world nation.......


....I mean, hell, they've still got ruddy pirates!

Harrr! :piangry: Shiver me timbers!

Architect
6th January 2007, 08:07 AM
You been watching Parrots of the Carribean again (so called because it keeps repeating the same jokes)?



Or just drinking on your birthday? All that lovely Belgian beer (he said, drolling, as he's still not allowed to drink)

njslim
6th January 2007, 08:43 AM
Originally come from upstate NY - the Adirondocks mountains in the Northern
part of the state are famous for having aircraft (light private aircraft)
"Disappear" - the area is very rugged with many mountain peaks, also
many small lakes. Remember news would report aircraft "vanishing" while
flying over area. Every couple years hikers/hunters/loggers would stumble
across crash site from years before. Indonesia with thousands of small
islands - most covered with thick jungle would not be difficult for plane
to "disappear" , either in water or jungle.

Architect
6th January 2007, 08:52 AM
And that's in the US, which has advanced radar systems and copious air-sea rescue facilitites!


Actually every so often light aircraft go missing here and it can take a day or two to find them, however I'm not going to place that in the same category as a huge ruddy Boeing magically disappearing.

Look at how long it's taken the Indonesians to try and find ferry survivors too.

Darth Rotor
6th January 2007, 09:30 AM
No CTs, but the best hypothesis is that the airplane ran its tanks dry somewhere off the coast and was possibly a long way off course due to an internal nav error. Apparently, the aircraft that went down has a history of Inertial Reference System(IRS) faults, and if the pilots didn't have the VOR receivers autotuning - which would periodically update IRS position through triangulation of 2 known VOR/DMEs - then the normal IRS drift error could be compounded with a known bad computer. Who knows just how far off course the plane was, but its clear the search teams arent even in the ballpark.

IMO, its a disgrace that the Indonesian rescue(now recovery) teams can't even locate the wreckage, which is likely floating.
In five days, such wreckage as might float would be dispersed by wave and wind action over a rather wide area, depending on local conditions. If I had the old Navy SAR manual I'd be able to give you some estimates better than "about 200 miles from datum" which is the best I'll offer.

That said, it is difficult to tell what the time lapse was between the search initiation and the actual loss of the aircraft from the news stories.

As to the state of Indonesian airlines, or that airliner . . . that is just plain awful.

DR

beachnut
6th January 2007, 12:06 PM
Just curious, has anyone heard any CTs put forward regarding this Indonesian 737 that disappeared 5 days ago?

5 days seems a very long time, IMHO, for an aircraft as big as a 737 to still be missing, even in Indonesia.

-Gumboot

On 9/11 I thought the terrorist had their own planes

LashL
6th January 2007, 01:08 PM
I read an article in today's newspaper that says an Indonesian search and rescue team enlisted the help of two shamans to locate the missing plane, after sacrificing a buffalo in a ritual to "clear the path" for the search.

Architect
6th January 2007, 01:26 PM
I read an article in today's newspaper that says an Indonesian search and rescue team enlisted the help of two shamans

1. Remind me only to fly REAL airlines when in the developing world

2. I'd wondered what had happened to them. It's ages since they had a hit.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shamen

Soapy Sam
6th January 2007, 01:28 PM
Didn't the Americans lose an airliner inside the Pentagon recently?

And of course, there's the famous hypersonic stealth fighter they lost in Hangar 51. It's in there somewhere, but they just can't find it.

I once lost a washing machine in my kitchen , which is about 6 ft by 10, but I'm notoriously careless.

LashL
6th January 2007, 01:57 PM
1. Remind me only to fly REAL airlines when in the developing world

2. I'd wondered what had happened to them. It's ages since they had a hit.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Shamen

Happy to oblige.

Note to Architect: Fly only REAL airlines when in the developing world. :)

Architect
6th January 2007, 04:48 PM
Happy to oblige.

Note to Architect: Fly only REAL airlines when in the developing world. :)

:covereyes

apathoid
6th January 2007, 05:49 PM
I read an article in today's newspaper that says an Indonesian search and rescue team enlisted the help of two shamans to locate the missing plane, after sacrificing a buffalo in a ritual to "clear the path" for the search.

Just in case someone thought you were joking.....

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20070106.@01&irec=0

Searchers slaughtered a buffalo in a traditional ceremony and consulted psychics Friday, the fourth day after an Adam Air jetliner went missing over Sulawesi.

Psychics are also helping the search, with one, a Mama Lauren, saying the aircraft had crashed in Lake Tempe in South Sulawesi's Wajo regency.

In Majene, West Sulawesi, a search and rescue team enlisted the help of local shamans and slaughtered a buffalo in a traditional ceremony, where food offerings were made to the spirits of the jungle and prayers were offered to ancestors to "clear the path" for the operation.

"When we come to a new place we have to greet the spirits here," Majene military chief Zakariya told AFP.

LashL
6th January 2007, 06:07 PM
Just in case someone thought you were joking.....

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20070106.@01&irec=0

Ahh, good point, apathoid. I should have posted a link.

Here's another one.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/story.html?id=5900b437-3b92-4d8e-8155-5947cec7e7c6


Search teams resort to shamans to find missing jet in Indonesia
Buffalo Sacrificed


Agence France-Presse
Published: Saturday, January 06, 2007

MAJENE, Indonesia - An Indonesian search and rescue team enlisted the help of two shamans yesterday to locate a missing plane as cutting-edge technology has failed to find any trace of it.

Before resuming the search for the Adam Air Boeing 737- 400 and its 96 passengers and six crew, military officers and rescue team members sacrificed a buffalo in a ritual to "clear the path" for the search. They also offered prayers to the village ancestors.

"When we come to a new place we have to greet the spirits here. This is the local custom practised here for generations to clear the path when we start our search. It is just seeking permission to search this area," said Zakariya, the Majene military chief.

"You can see that even when using very high-tech devices and enlisting the help of Singapore, we have still not found anything. So this is an alternative measure that we are using. It is the local way of doing things."

Shamans Siti Salma, in her 40s, and Raupung, reportedly in his 70s, performed the rituals and prayed.

Bakri, a village leader, who was also helping the search and rescue efforts, said he hoped the rituals would help the mission.

"We have visited the ancestors' cemetery, we have prayed and offered them sacrifices, so hopefully we will have a smooth operation," he said.

ConspiRaider
6th January 2007, 07:07 PM
I read an article in today's newspaper that says an Indonesian search and rescue team enlisted the help of two shamans to locate the missing plane, after sacrificing a buffalo in a ritual to "clear the path" for the search.
Was it a water buffalo?

gumboot
6th January 2007, 08:48 PM
Originally come from upstate NY - the Adirondocks mountains in the Northern
part of the state are famous for having aircraft (light private aircraft)
"Disappear" - the area is very rugged with many mountain peaks, also
many small lakes. Remember news would report aircraft "vanishing" while
flying over area. Every couple years hikers/hunters/loggers would stumble
across crash site from years before. Indonesia with thousands of small
islands - most covered with thick jungle would not be difficult for plane
to "disappear" , either in water or jungle.



Yeah but there's a big difference between a private light aircraft going missing and a commercial airliner going missing.

-Gumboot

Dog Town
6th January 2007, 08:58 PM
Remind me to never fly on an Indonesian carrier, they sound almost as bad as some of the East African carriersairlines

Flew Aeroflot in the late 80's, from Helsinki to Leningrad. Never been religious in my life, praying was on the table. Scarrrry S*&%! Never flew them again.