killtown acknowledges holograms weren't used on 9/11...

[jon]

Apparently, it was CGI effects that simulated planes hitting the WTC towers (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2179&st=0&#entry10926600).

As Killtown puts it:
I just want to let people know I DON'T believe holograms were used at the WTC and NEVER believed there were used because some thruthlings, for some weird reason, believe I do:

QUOTE (faithnmytime @ Jan 6 2007, 08:55 PM)
-------------That is great. But in your posts you said "NEVER" yet you made a thread of it's possibility. You said a cartoon plane. From what I can
-------------gather the only thing that makes sense by cartoon plane is a hologram. Because the footage looks like a plane.

It's called CGI (Computer Generated Imagery), NOT hologram.

I could try to think of something clever to say about this; however, I think it'd be much more productive to just go and drink more whisky.

[Architect]

So, like, how do all the eye witnesses see a 3d CGI image then?

[Quad4_72]

Killtown is an idiot. That is all there really is to say about him.

[Architect]

I can think of lots more, but there's that whole rule 8 thing.

[Brainache]

So, like, how do all the eye witnesses see a 3d CGI image then?

I think you'll find that according to Mr Town none of the eyewitnesses actually saw anything. They just accepted what they were told by the MSM because they are all sheeple. So after seeing nothing hit the towers and explode, they rushed to their nearest TV and had their empty heads filled with government lies.

[Architect]

I'll buy that (are, right) for impact 1 but surely thousands actually saw impact 2 with their own eyes?!

I mean, how can any sane person suggest such a thing as CGI?

[Quad4_72]

I can think of lots more, but there's that whole rule 8 thing.

Actually whenever the name is mentioned I have to do this:footinmou

[defaultdotxbe]

I'll but that (are, right) for impact 1 but surely thousands of sheep actually were told that they saw impact 2 with their own eyes?!

I mean, how can any sane person deny such a thing as CGI?
i killtownized that for you

[Sword_Of_Truth]

i killtownized that for you

You did?

[Kage]

As someone who made holograms in physics core lab, this sort of nonsense has always bugged me. If it is CGI, how did my 4 year old (at the time) cousin watch the first plane hit? If it was a hologram, the idea is so ridiculous that I cannot even formulate a question about the theory. The wrongness is staggering.

[Mince]

I mean, how can any sane person suggest such a thing as CGI?


I don't believe that a lot of the CTs, and especially the more sensational, actually believe a lot of the nonsense they foward. I think most of them play up the sensantionalism merely for effect; it gets them noticed; it's exciting to play international-spy-mystery-solve the terrorist murder plot-intrigue-game. A lot of people are legitimately duped by this type of contrivance; but I don't believe the sensationalists (KT or Alex Jones) really believe the crap they peddle. I believe they play stupid for reaction and effect. In the case of Alex Jones, it has great effect. Killtown...not so much.

[maccy]

I don't believe that a lot of the CTs, and especially the more sensational, actually believe a lot of the nonsense they foward. I think most of them play up the sensantionalism merely for effect; it gets them noticed; it's exciting to play international-spy-mystery-solve the terrorist murder plot-intrigue-game. A lot of people are legitimagely duped by this type of contrivance; but I don't believe the sensationalists (KT or Alex Jones) really believe the crap they peddle. I believe they play stupid for reaction and effect. In the case of Alex Jones, it has great effect. Killtown...not so much.

Also, I suspect that a delusional belief can be a deliberate flight from reality, a comforting fantasy. Part of the feeling of security lies in the fact that it can;t possibly be true - so even in the act of believing part of the person knows it is a lie. They feel like they're avoiding consequences and the real world.

[Bell]

When Killtown says holograms weren't used, I'd double check his claim.

[GlennB]

I don't believe that a lot of the CTs, and especially the more sensational, actually believe a lot of the nonsense they foward. I think most of them play up the sensantionalism merely for effect; it gets them noticed; it's exciting to play international-spy-mystery-solve the terrorist murder plot-intrigue-game. A lot of people are legitimagely duped by this type of contrivance; but I don't believe the sensationalists (KT or Alex Jones) really believe the crap they peddle. I believe they play stupid for reaction and effect. In the case of Alex Jones, it has great effect. Killtown...not so much.

That sounds right.
In all fairness, KT must have done monster amounts of "research" on 9/11, yet over on Loose Change just a while ago he was questioning the insubstantial nature of the C to E ground floor area at The Pentagon (in order to debate how plane debris made it through to the punchout hole)
He must know better by now, so why raise the freaking subject at all?
I suspect huge amounts of cannabis products (allegedly).

[Pardalis]

When Killtown says holograms weren't used, I'd double check his claim.

Good one! :newlol

[Horatius]

So, like, how do all the eye witnesses see a 3d CGI image then?

It was stereoscopic CGI. Duh!


I think you'll find that according to Mr Town none of the eyewitnesses actually saw anything. They just accepted what they were told by the MSM because they are all sheeple. So after seeing nothing hit the towers and explode, they rushed to their nearest TV and had their empty heads filled with government lies.

I'll buy that (are, right) for impact 1 but surely thousands actually saw impact 2 with their own eyes?!

I mean, how can any sane person suggest such a thing as CGI?

I think you answered it right there.

[Horatius]

A lot of people are legitimately duped by this type of contrivance; but I don't believe the sensationalists (KT or Alex Jones) really believe the crap they peddle. I believe they play stupid for reaction and effect. In the case of Alex Jones, it has great effect. Killtown...not so much.

I don't think Alex plays stupid. Did you ever read jonronson's posts of chapters of his books that dealt with AJ and Bohemian Groove? The only reason AJ doesn't come off as a complete idiot and nutcase is, his buddy is even stupider.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2012283#post2012283

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2012285#post2012285

[Arus808]

having majored in Computer Animation and 3d special effects, there is no way CGI was involved. Does Killtown even explorer his outlandish claims ? Do you know HOW long it takes ot model, and animate a computer model and how much processor speed (and time) is needed to do so for just a SIMPLE , non detailed, computer animation?


geesus forbid that he should actually interview a computer animator.

And in "real time"?????

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within took over 100 computer server racks to animate that 1 hr 45 minute movie; 40% of that power was just used to Animate the hair on the main character's head (Aki Ross). And took 5 years to animate that movie.

[Pardalis]

And in "real time"?????

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within took over 100 computer server racks to animate that 1 hr 45 minute movie; 40% of that power was just used to Animate the hair on the main character's head (Aki Ross). And took 5 years to animate that movie.

Come on, everybody knows the NWO has extraordinary means, unlimited resources and staff... :rolleyes:

[Bell]

Come on, everybody knows the NWO has extraordinary means, unlimited resources and staff... :rolleyes:

But yet, when it comes to the moon landings... :rolleyes:

[Pardalis]

But yet, when it comes to the moon landings... :rolleyes:

Don't get smart birthday boy, everybody knows landing on the moon is impossible. :D

[Bell]

Don't get smart birthday boy, everybody knows landing on the moon is impossible. :D

Yeah, well thanks for NOT supporting the official story. Jeezzz :rolleyes: Did you sleep through NWO Moon Hoax class or what??

[rwguinn]

Yeah, well thanks for NOT supporting the official story. Jeezzz :rolleyes: Did you sleep through NWO Moon Hoax class or what??

Us Capricorns gotta stick together.
Didn't the rest of these JREF ijits notice that January 6 is the day the Wise Men (or was that the Wiesman's?) arrived at baby jebus's place?
There's a sign, there!

[Pardalis]

Hey, happy birthday to both of you! :)

[Brainster]

I don't think Alex plays stupid. Did you ever read jonronson's posts of chapters of his books that dealt with AJ and Bohemian Groove? The only reason AJ doesn't come off as a complete idiot and nutcase is, his buddy is even stupider.

There is a moment in the Order of Death (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933&q=Alex+Jones+bohemian+Grove&hl=en) where Alex actually appears to be quite sensible and funny; when he's talking about the aging hippies protesting the Bohemian Grove (it starts about 18:00). This segment is so spot on funny (particularly when Jones comments about a druidic chant, "This went on for literally hour after hour after hour.") that it makes it hard for me to believe that Jones doesn't know exactly what he's doing. Remember the old saying, nobody ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of the people.

[Horatius]

There is a moment in the Order of Death (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2500924140588760933&q=Alex+Jones+bohemian+Grove&hl=en) where Alex actually appears to be quite sensible and funny; when he's talking about the aging hippies protesting the Bohemian Grove (it starts about 18:00).

I don't quite see it that way. I think it's just more of his "OMFG! Satan!" stuff. Not very funny or insightful. He shows no understanding of why someone might think focusing on the political aspects would be a better use of their time than ranting about sacrifices and whatnot.

He still takes their little pagent too seriously, and expects others to, on the basis of crappy video that doesn't show anything sinister. He brags about having the first footage from within the Big Owl, but all it looks like is backstage at any highschool auditorium. Yeah, really sinister, there, Alex.

I guess I'll just stick with stupid.

[LashL]

Us Capricorns gotta stick together.
Didn't the rest of these JREF ijits notice that January 6 is the day the Wise Men (or was that the Wiesman's?) arrived at baby jebus's place?
There's a sign, there!

Happy birthday, rwguinn! :)

[A W Smith]

whats the difference between a hologram and a CGI anyway?

[Arus808]

hologram - can be created by using any medium (drawn, using real items, etc)

cgi - computer generated images - everything is created by or within a computer environment.

[Horatius]

whats the difference between a hologram and a CGI anyway?

A hologram is produce by holography, which can reproduce an accurate copy of the wavefront of light that would reach your eye from the actual object, if it was there. See Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hologram):


The difference between holography and photography is best understood by considering what a black and white photograph actually is: it is a point-to-point recording of the intensity of light rays that make up an image. Each point on the photograph records just one thing, the intensity (i.e. the square of the amplitude of the electric field) of the light wave that illuminates that particular point. In the case of a colour photograph, slightly more information is recorded (in effect the image is recorded three times viewed through three different colour filters), which allows a limited reconstruction of the wavelength of the light, and thus its color.

However, the light which makes up a real scene is not only specified by its amplitude and wavelength, but also by its phase. In a photograph, the phase of the light from the original scene is lost, and with it the three-dimensional effect. In a hologram, information from both the intensity and the phase is recorded. When illuminating the hologram with the appropriate light, it diffracts part of it into exactly the same wave (up to a constant phase shift invisible to our eyes) which emanated from the original scene, thus retaining the three-dimensional appearance. Although colour holograms are possible, in most cases the holograms are recorded monochromatically

CGI is just producing traditional 2-D images using a computer. They may be extremely detailed, and may contain some visual "hints" that can help convince you that it's 3-D, such as perspecitve cues and what not, but it's not a true 3-D image like a hologram. There have been a lot of patents on producing real-time holographic displays for computers, but as far as I know, nothing really practical has come out of that yet.

However, when most people talk about holograms, they mean some sort of Star Trak sci-fi thing, which has very little to do with reality. For instance, it's very difficult to produce a hologram which can be viewed from all angles (like walking around a statue). To make one large enough to cover a plane, in flight, from a full spherical viewpoint, and in colour - not happening.

[fuelair]

So, like, how do all the eye witnesses see a 3d CGI image then?

No, the eyewitnesses were either frightened into giving out the govt. version or paid enough to make it worthwhile for them to lie. All the film and video taken was altered by the govt. to show the cgi material.

OR someone(s) are idiots.

Apply the Razor.:D

[fuelair]

having majored in Computer Animation and 3d special effects, there is no way CGI was involved. Does Killtown even explorer his outlandish claims ? Do you know HOW long it takes ot model, and animate a computer model and how much processor speed (and time) is needed to do so for just a SIMPLE , non detailed, computer animation?


geesus forbid that he should actually interview a computer animator.

And in "real time"?????

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within took over 100 computer server racks to animate that 1 hr 45 minute movie; 40% of that power was just used to Animate the hair on the main character's head (Aki Ross). And took 5 years to animate that movie.

Then apply that point to the areas of Structural Engineering, Demolition, Aircraft technology, and dozens of other fields that require major education to specialize in and you see why these fools cannot do anything but sit around and ask questions and make stupid statements.

[gumboot]

Don't get smart birthday boy, everybody knows landing on the moon is impossible. :D


Good england Canada boy!

It's un-possible.

-Gumboot

[jon]

yeah, I still try to figure out whether killtown's for real, or if this is some kind of elaborate satire.

Or maybe killtown's a CGI simulation of a CTer. I mean, how do we know he's real? Has anyone actually seen him?

[rwguinn]

yeah, I still try to figure out whether killtown's for real, or if this is some kind of elaborate satire.

Or maybe killtown's a CGI simulation of a CTer. I mean, how do we know he's real? Has anyone actually seen him?

Hmmmm.
AI may be farther along than we knew?
If so, it still has a looooonnnnnngggggg way to go...

[Oliver]

having majored in Computer Animation and 3d special effects, there is no way CGI was involved. Does Killtown even explorer his outlandish claims ? Do you know HOW long it takes ot model, and animate a computer model and how much processor speed (and time) is needed to do so for just a SIMPLE , non detailed, computer animation?


geesus forbid that he should actually interview a computer animator.

And in "real time"?????

Final Fantasy The Spirits Within took over 100 computer server racks to animate that 1 hr 45 minute movie; 40% of that power was just used to Animate the hair on the main character's head (Aki Ross). And took 5 years to animate that movie.

The "no planers" have no clue about how much work it is to model,
texture and animate cgi-environments, especially things like realistic
looking explosions with debris. Beside rendertimes about 30 minutes
to several hours >>>per single frame<<< using global illumination.

What type of research are they doing? :boggled: :confused:

[maccy]

Hmmmm.
AI may be farther along than we knew?
If so, it still has a looooonnnnnngggggg way to go...

All the programs I've seen that attempt to pass the Turing Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test), spend a lot of their time answering your questions with questions. They also seem to speak in short enigmatic sentences.

Want to know about 9/11? Forget Killtown, go ask Alice (http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=f5d922d97e345aa1).

[Spins]

No, the eyewitnesses were either frightened into giving out the govt. version or paid enough to make it worthwhile for them to lie. All the film and video taken was altered by the govt. to show the cgi material.

OR someone(s) are idiots.

Apply the Razor.:DI applied the principle of lex parsimoniae many moons ago to Killtowns theories and quickly came to the conclusion they are all complete paranoid delusional BS.

:D

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

All the programs I've seen that attempt to pass the Turing Test (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test), spend a lot of their time answering your questions with questions. They also seem to speak in short enigmatic sentences.

Want to know about 9/11? Forget Killtown, go ask Alice (http://www.pandorabots.com/pandora/talk?botid=f5d922d97e345aa1).
My go-to question for such programs breaks it just as easily as any other time,
"
Human: What is better, an orange?
ALICE: I always prefer the more expensive one.
"

[Arus808]

The "no planers" have no clue about how much work it is to model,
texture and animate cgi-environments, especially things like realistic
looking explosions with debris. Beside rendertimes about 30 minutes
to several hours >>>per single frame<<< using global illumination.

What type of research are they doing? :boggled: :confused:

None. that's for sure

Also, dont they realize that the kind of animation needed would have to have been done by over a 100 people (that makes the participants even more), and that it would have to have been "contracted" out in order to do so (please let us know where hte government is hiding all these computer animators...even the Army video game was not animated or produced by the army, it was contracted out). Dontcha think that these animators would have "said" something by now ("HEY, didn't I just animate this sequence for the gumbmint !!!"). :eek:

[Oliver]

None. that's for sure

Also, dont they realize that the kind of animation needed would have to have been done by over a 100 people (that makes the participants even more), and that it would have to have been "contracted" out in order to do so (please let us know where hte government is hiding all these computer animators...even the Army video game was not animated or produced by the army, it was contracted out). Dontcha think that these animators would have "said" something by now ("HEY, didn't I just animate this sequence for the gumbmint !!!"). :eek:

Another thing is that the footage looks too authentic to
consider it as being rendered 3d-animations. To make it look
this way, you need another huge amount of time to make
it look this way. And i won't even mention the sound...

These guys must be plain stupid. :boggled:

[JimBenArm]

These guys must be plain stupid. :boggled:

No, they're extra-special stupid.

[boloboffin]

Killtown is an all-purpose troll. He doesn't really care about what he's arguing or who he's arguing with - as long as he's arguing - as long as he can perceive himself as smarter than you. If the facts were an actual concern of his, he would be on our side, and still be just as big a [rule8].

[Kage]

However, when most people talk about holograms, they mean some sort of Star Trak sci-fi thing, which has very little to do with reality. For instance, it's very difficult to produce a hologram which can be viewed from all angles (like walking around a statue). To make one large enough to cover a plane, in flight, from a full spherical viewpoint, and in colour - not happening.

Not to mention that you have to record the intensity and phase of the light IN something, which means that you have an even larger object than the plane involved. Getting the hologram to be in color presents another huge problem, since you cannot take the hologram with one exposure, since the size of the recorded image depends on the wavelength of the light used to record it. Also getting the image to move presents a huge to impossible problem. Again, the wrongness is staggering.

[jhunter1163]

I don't think we have any horse's (rule8)es of Killtown's scale on our side. Do we?

[defaultdotxbe]

I don't think we have any horse's (rule8)es of Killtown's scale on our side. Do we?
no, the attitude is usually mutually exclusive to the "concerned with facts" part

[Horatius]

Not to mention that you have to record the intensity and phase of the light IN something, which means that you have an even larger object than the plane involved. Getting the hologram to be in color presents another huge problem, since you cannot take the hologram with one exposure, since the size of the recorded image depends on the wavelength of the light used to record it. Also getting the image to move presents a huge to impossible problem. Again, the wrongness is staggering.

Yes, picture a cruise missile flying along with a large sphere of holographic transparencies surrounding it. Kind of hard to maneuver, I'd expect. Probably easier to just use a real plane.....

[LashL]

bump