Noetic Science?

[Finella]

Hi, All...

I came back from TAM and found something pretty amazing in my mail. So I thought I'd share. Here's some quotes from the cover letter of the calming, sea-green brochure and letterhead:

"Join Ions Today"

"Compelling physical evidence exists for reincarnation. Spontaneous remission occurs for previously diagnosed terminal illness. Individuals communicate telepathically with their pets, and report experiences of precognition and clairvoyance.

"These phenomena seriously challenge our scientific understanding, but that doesn't make them any less true (their emphasis, not mine). It is easier to pretend that such phenomena simply aren't real-- because in order to accept them we'd have to question everything we thought we knew.

"Instead we often relegate these truths to the field of metaphysics. Because they felly outside the realm of our scientific paradigm, they are diffiult areas for our leading scientific ressearch and medical institutions to take seriously."

(well, duh!)

Apparently, IONS is the "Institute of Noetic Sciences", which supposedly conducts research on all these paranormal phenomena. "... we look to both modern science and ancient spiritual wisdom for insigh to help us answer these questions." They claim they are founded by Apollo 14 astronaut Edgar Mitchell in 1974 after he had a "transcendent experience" on his way home from the moon. Some studies they quote include scientific evidence for life after death, where they found that "children had birthmarks and birth defects that corresponded to fatal wounds they say had caused their death in a previous life" (how did they determine that??), and that humans and animals are connected telepathically because dogs and cats seem to know their owners are on their way home ten minutes before the owners show up.

Anyone heard of these people? Perhaps I'm naive here, since I'm new to the whole JREF thing... but if anyone else knows anything about them and the validity of their "research", I'd love to hear about it.

Thanks... I had fun typing that out...

---,---'--{@

[Badger]

Don't know about these noetic folk.

I do know that dogs/cats hear things we can't and therefore hear the typical sounds of their owner's return significantly before they walk through the door. I live where I can see vehicles a couple of miles away, and so can see my wife returning. The dogs hear her car when she's these several miles away, and therefore anticipate her return. May seem like telepathy, but it's just their good hearing and conditioned response to the particular sounds of her vehicle.

But mainly I replied to say welcome.

[The Bad Astronomer]

Yup, Ed Mitchell is part of the INS. They are located not too far from me in Northern California (shocker). Read for yourself (http://www.myions.org/Public%20Site/HTML/pages.html?about&edgar).

[Finella]

Thanks for the link, BA. I liked that description of his Edgar Mitchell's experience, and it sounds very similar to what other astronauts experience as well, this overwhelming transcendental sense of wholeness of the planet. These are well-documented experiences in psychology and have even been classified to some degree (e.g., by Ken Wilber). What I find disturbing is using "hard" science to prove the existence of another level of consciousness, as well as some of these other things...

Yeah, the pets thing is pretty explainable, too. And my thinking is, if the dog knows the owner is coming home in ten minutes, why sit at the door waiting? Why not show up right when the owner arrives? Think of the naptime you could get in....

---,---'--{@

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by Finella
I came back from TAM and found something pretty amazing in my mail. So I thought I'd share. Here's some quotes from the cover letter of the calming, sea-green brochure and letterhead:

"Join Ions Today"




NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just what we need, some clowns going out and giving ions a bad name.

It's bad enough that we have these stupid "ion hair dryers" and crap like that. It's hard enough to be an ion chemist without morons going around distorting the picture of what ions are all about.

Ugh.

[Soapy Sam]

I'll bite.
So...what ARE ions all about?

[rwald]

Atoms with the wrong number of electrons?

[shecky]

I seem to recall a radio show about ten+ years ago with a very calm voiced male host speaking on a variety new age, pseudo science, and philosophical issues with the weekly guest. All themes/topics having some affiliation or interest to the "Institute of Noetic Sciences". It was a weekly one hour show, I used to listen in at work. It WAS a bit hard to pin down, as the guests and topics were pretty "soft" and open to interpretation. I think the show was called "New Dimensions" or some such thing. The best I could say was at least it wasn't terribly offensive. In general, it wasn't terribly informative about anything in particular either. And it wasn't as cheesy as, say, the Art Bell show.

The last I heard of the show was several years ago when I recognized that show over a static-y shortwave radio broadcast I believe from RFPI out of Costa Rica.

[BillyJoe]

Definition from dictionary.com


noetic

....Of or pertaining to the intellect; intellectual.

I would employ the word noetic to express all those cognitions which originate in the mind itself. --Sir W. Hamilton.Kind of apt don't you think.
Not even a pretense of science according to that definition.

[pgwenthold]

Originally posted by rwald
Atoms with the wrong number of electrons?

Not the "wrong" number of electrons. That would imply a value judgement.

They are just atoms with different numbers of electrons.

Ions are extremely important tools in the study of all types of processes. Zewail got the Nobel Prize for the application of femtosecond spectroscopy, but he would have never been able to do it without ions. Ions provide the most versatile detection means. Absorbance schemes lack sensitivity. Few molecules will emit, limiting the applicability of photon counting. But anything can be ionized if you hit it hard enough.

Basically, ions are at the heart of very much (if not mot) of modern physical chemistry (not to mention analytical biochemistry these days, as mass spectrometry is the key tool in proteomics).

And that is just their significance from a "doing science" perspective. They are our key to obtaining insight into the workings of our physical universe.

From a "natural science" perspective, ions are basically responsible for the initial syntheses of all molecules. Mchanisms for interstellar molecule formation generally involve an ion/neutral reaction in at least one of the steps.

[jj]

Originally posted by rwald
Atoms with the wrong number of electrons?

No, no, no, if we couldn't pull protons loose, our mitochondria would stop working.

ack!
Ergg
hhhhhh!



:D

[rwald]

"Wrong" in the sense that they don't match the number of protons.

I'm aware that ions are very important for chemistry, among other things. It would be diffucult to have ionic compounds without ions...

[Tom Head]

Originally posted by shecky
I seem to recall a radio show about ten+ years ago with a very calm voiced male host speaking on a variety new age, pseudo science, and philosophical issues with the weekly guest. All themes/topics having some affiliation or interest to the "Institute of Noetic Sciences". It was a weekly one hour show, I used to listen in at work. It WAS a bit hard to pin down, as the guests and topics were pretty "soft" and open to interpretation. I think the show was called "New Dimensions" or some such thing.This might ring a few (Art?) bells:
http://www.newdimensions.org/

I think I heard an interview they did with Andrew Harvey a few years ago (on his Rumi stuff); entertaining and pretty well-organized, as I recall.


Cheers,

[SFB]

Just in case anyone's interested:

www.noetic.org

Originally posted by jj


No, no, no, if we couldn't pull protons loose, our mitochondria would stop working.


http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~terry/images/anim/ATPanim.gif

Cheers,

[xouper]

bump