Religion and Lack of Skepticism

[INRM]

I need to say this while it's still in my head. It's good and I think way too much.

I was thinking about skepticism, and why people are skeptical about somethings and totally un-skeptical about other things.

And I believe the answer is...

SKEPTICAL: People who are very skeptical of things don't usually want to believe it. They figure if they can raise enough doubt that the belief won't be true. Almost as if it's a voting process. It's not true. Whether you want to believe it or not, it's either true or not true, or just something else.

The only other exception is that if it just sounds too good to be true, and the person wants to believe it, but wants so much more to not be fooled, or be wrong. Smart people in particularly hate to be fooled.

For example a guy who claims that he can speak to the dead, and that the life of a person goes on even after they die. They don't cease to exist, you don't cease to exist. It's not over, it's all good. This sets off the bells for any skeptic... it sounds too good to be true? It *NEVER* ends? Nah, that can't be it...

Especially when science seems to tilt towards the fact that nothing lasts forever... it's only a matter of time until something falls apart...

Additionally science seems to have a decent track record on localizing conscious experiences to brain-functions. This suggests that they are linked. This means that if they are linked, if brain functions go to zero, then consciousness goes to zero.

If there is no spirit, then it is only the brain, and since we cannot find a spirit, and even if we did, we cannot seem to find anything it does that the brain doesn't? Maybe it's a back-up? Maybe it's a side-effect? Hmmm Maybe there is no such thing as a spirit... it is just an illusion created by the brain.


UNSKEPTICAL: People who are unskeptical about things usually are like that because they WANT to believe it.

Religion is a prime example. They don't examine it with a microscope because
1.) They're not intelligent enough to examine it, or
2.) they don't WANT it to not be true. They hold a faulty view that if they expose it for being a lie or being un-true that they somehow "killed" the belief, as if it would be true if they didn't reveal it's faultiness... It sounds wierd, but humans believe in a lot of illogical things. For example, children often blame themselves for their parent's divorces, even though they share no fault.

-INRM (I widdled it down a little)

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by INRM
I need to say this while it's still in my head. It's good and I think way too much.

I was thinking about skepticism, and why people are skeptical about somethings and totally un-skeptical about other things.

And I believe the answer is...

SKEPTICAL: People who are very skeptical of things don't usually want to believe it. They figure if they can raise enough doubt that the belief won't be true. Almost as if it's a voting process. It's not true. Whether you want to believe it or not, it's either true or not true, or just something else.
I dont believe that is an entirely accurate definition of skepticism. I would assume the vast majority of skeptics dont believe one thing over another because it lacks rationality, doesnt conform to science, lacks logic, etc. I'd like to believe in the paranormal and I'd like to believe there is a place I will go when I die... but... I cannot believe in those things because by deductive reasoning and using the laws of science, they are irrational.

The only other exception is that if it just sounds too good to be true, and the person wants to believe it, but wants so much more to not be fooled, or be wrong. Smart people in particularly hate to be fooled.
It can be one exception but I dont think any intelligent person will be fooled for very long... deep in the subconscious you will give yourself hints and clues that what you believe is false. The "sounds too good to be true" is a false adage. Although it seems to be the case most of the time, I'd assume it takes slightly more logic and thinking process to consider the validity of something than "well, it sounds to good to be true so it probably isnt".

For example a guy who claims that he can speak to the dead, and that the life of a person goes on even after they die. They don't cease to exist, you don't cease to exist. It's not over, it's all good. This sets off the bells for any skeptic... it sounds too good to be true? It *NEVER* ends? Nah, that can't be it...
Good point. It tends to be true.

Especially when science seems to tilt towards the fact that nothing lasts forever... it's only a matter of time until something falls apart...

Additionally science seems to have a decent track record on localizing conscious experiences to brain-functions. This suggests that they are linked. This means that if they are linked, if brain functions go to zero, then consciousness goes to zero.
Hence the phrase "brain-dead". I dont think there are too many people who believe that consciousness exists anywhere else but the brain (BUT YOU NEVER KNOW! [/sarcasm]).

If there is no spirit, then it is only the brain, and since we cannot find a spirit, and even if we did, we cannot seem to find anything it does that the brain doesn't? Maybe it's a back-up? Maybe it's a side-effect? Hmmm Maybe there is no such thing as a spirit... it is just an illusion created by the brain.
Or maybe a spirit was invented by primitive man to explain the things he couldnt understand. Where do you go when you die, where does thunder come from, etc.


UNSKEPTICAL: People who are unskeptical about things usually are like that because they WANT to believe it.
I would assume someone who believes anything (even the paranormal) would have conscious reasoning behind rather than "Hey, that sounds neato!".

Religion is a prime example. They don't examine it with a microscope because
1.) They're not intelligent enough to examine it, or
2.) they don't WANT it to not be true. They hold a faulty view that if they expose it for being a lie or being un-true that they somehow "killed" the belief, as if it would be true if they didn't reveal it's faultiness... It sounds wierd, but humans believe in a lot of illogical things. For example, children often blame themselves for their parent's divorces, even though they share no fault.

-INRM (I widdled it down a little)
1. All religions have been analyzed. Still, as many analyzations you can make, there will always be people with firm inner convictions... yes, people will tend let their inner convictions be the judge of validity no matter what the analyzations point to.
2. I dont think many people are religious because they would feel guilty if they werent.

There are far more FAR MORE reason why people are religious than the ones you listed. Far more reasons why people are skeptical. I'm sure Lord Kenneth will have plenty of things to say... probably a lot of negative things... probably a lot more things than I had to say... You have to remember that religions are very deeply rooted core beliefs within people, they cannot be explained or dismissed in a few rationalzations.

Awwwllll. Look at the picture of the kitten!

[wollery]

Sorry INRM, but I'm definitely with Yahweh on this one. I'd love to think that there was more to this existence than the mortal plane we know so well, but as a scientist I need a level of proof that just doesn't exist for religious beliefs.
I would describe myself not just as a skeptic but also as a hopeful agnostic. My logical mind says that we can't tell whether or not God exists, but my romantic heart tells me that my soul is part of a larger more beautiful whole.

[triadboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by INRM

SKEPTICAL: People who are very skeptical of things don't usually want to believe it. They figure if they can raise enough doubt that the belief won't be true.

I think you are off the mark here. I would LOVE to believe in an afterlife. Just think of THAT! After you die, you just 'go on' in a new body - with all your earth memories intact. Your family is waiting for you there with an open beer. Everyone wants that! - and that's where the idea comes from - Unskeptical people wanting it to be that way.

Unfortunately, what I WANT - and what I KNOW - are two different things. I'm skeptical about supernatural events created and reported by men.


UNSKEPTICAL: People who are unskeptical about things usually are like that because they WANT to believe it.

Agree

[Yahweh]

Your family is waiting for you there with an open beer. Everyone wants that!
Minus the family of course.

[Landis]

Originally posted by INRM

SKEPTICAL: People who are very skeptical of things don't usually want to believe it. They figure if they can raise enough doubt that the belief won't be true. Almost as if it's a voting process. It's not true. Whether you want to believe it or not, it's either true or not true, or just something else.



I think INRM may be confusing skepticism with contrarinous. Contrarians will argue just for the sake of argument. They will adopt irrational positions just for the sake of argument, not becuase they really believe in what they are saying. (JK for instance). They like to push people's buttons, it gives them great pleasure.

[triadboy]

Originally posted by Yahweh

Minus the family of course.

Let's combine Islamic paradise with the one described above then:

70 beautiful virgin girls will meet us with open beers.

Yeah I agree...that's better.

[scribble]

Originally posted by INRM
SKEPTICAL: People who are very skeptical of things don't usually want to believe it. They figure if they can raise enough doubt that the belief won't be true. Almost as if it's a voting process. It's not true. Whether you want to believe it or not, it's either true or not true, or just something else.


I am absolutely freaking desperate to believe in an afterlife. Believe me, there's nothing I *want* to believe more.

That is all.

-Chris

edit: and triad beat me to it.

[Fade]

You misunderstand human nature.

Everyone wants to believe that there are good things coming, that there is a loving creature out there waiting for us, that magic and telepathy and simple homeopathy works.

Our lives would be worlds easier if these things were true, and I desperately wish that all the woowoo's out there were correct, and that the world was a magical and mysterious place and that I too can have special powers!

However, my education and my intellect forbid me from believing in these things, because they simply aren't true. A skeptic is a person who is a cut above the rest. We don't swallow the idiocy flung at us from every direction. We question, we insist on evidence and logic, and in the end it is the skeptical mind that shapes the world. Without hard science, we'd still be living in mud huts worshipping the rain god and sacrificing goats to appease him.

Science is real magic. Instead of hocus pocus and trickery, the pursuit of science leads us to understand the universe, and in doing so, allows us to control and manipulate our surroundings to a much greater degree.

[INRM]

Originally posted by triadboy


Let's combine Islamic paradise with the one described above then:

70 beautiful virgin girls will meet us with open beers.

Yeah I agree...that's better.

Nope, 70 beautiful white raisins will meet you with open beers :D

-INRM