Another WTC 7 Conspiracy Theory

[njslim]

Trying to debunk the usual range of off the wall conspiracies concerning WTC 7 ( Ie. No plane hit the building, it was a star wars death beam,
Larry Silverman ordered the building pulled, etc) is difficult enough

Get a load of this posted over at the "SCREW LOOSE CHANGE" forum -
it from the goose steeping cretins at the National Vanguard, a neo
nazi, anti Semitie group. It has the Air Force fighters dispatched to
New York on the morning of 9/11 hitting the building with their missiles -
of course all this has been covered up .


http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

Maybe should put these clowns in touch with several of my co-workers,
who were in WTC 7 that morning and ran for their lives.

[Loss Leader]

Because there's nothing stealthier that an F-15 screaming overhead at seven hundred miles an hour shouting "Fox Two, Fox Two!"

[beachnut]

Robert's mom said, His brain was "partly evaporated" due to high temperature fever when he was two.

[skunkrider]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

debunk that :)

[Oliver]

http://youtube.com/watch?v= (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U)Ml_n5gJgQ_U (http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U)

debunk that :)

Ml_n5gJgQ_U

[Cl1mh4224rd]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

debunk that :)
You're welcome (http://youtube.com/watch?v=dWemhf8fZ2w)...

Edit: Err... The narrator says "moment of inertia" would be one of the factors that should significantly increase the collapse time of WTC7 (2:32 mark in skunkrider's video). Moment of inertia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia) applies to rotating masses...

What the...? Controlled demolitions don't create vacuums that pull the building down. Also, the "clap of thunder" and windows blowing out would be the internal collapse that resulted in the penthouse disappearing into the building as seen in the video I link to.

And, of course, the picture of the "neat pile" is clearly taken after clean-up has already begun.

I can't help but think this has already been debunk a dozen times or more...

[jon]

What always amazes me is how the type of people who think their race is somehow superior are often so embarassingly, jaw-droppingly, cringe-makingly stupid. How anyone can claim that the NWO used planes to fire missiles into the building, in central NY, without anyone noticing... How anyone can claim this, and still, with a straight face, claim to be an example of a superior race, that's just beyond me - maybe if you're stupid enough you don't even realise your own stupidity?

Are you sure it's not satire (a Landover Baptist Church type thing)?

[babazaroni]

Now that the Skunk has been debunked, lets stick to the subject of the thread.

F15 attack on wtc7.

[skunkrider]

what's the point? that it had been burning and that - after seeing the towers collapsing which nobody could predict - firefighters saw wtc7 and expected anything to be possible on that day?

in that case, i agree.

[Oliver]

What always amazes me is how the type of people who think their race is somehow superior are often so embarassingly, jaw-droppingly, cringe-makingly stupid. How anyone can claim that the NWO used planes to fire missiles into the building, in central NY, without anyone noticing... How anyone can claim this, and still, with a straight face, claim to be an example of a superior race, that's just beyond me - maybe if you're stupid enough you don't even realise your own stupidity?

Are you sure it's not satire (a Landover Baptist Church type thing)?

Oh, did i tell you about the "No planers"? No no - they
are real - they really believe the whole 9/11 thing was
staged computer graphics. :covereyes :boggled:

[Pardalis]

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-6243624912447824934&q

[skunkrider]

What always amazes me is how the type of people who think their race is somehow superior are often so embarassingly, jaw-droppingly, cringe-makingly stupid. How anyone can claim that the NWO used planes to fire missiles into the building, in central NY, without anyone noticing... How anyone can claim this, and still, with a straight face, claim to be an example of a superior race, that's just beyond me - maybe if you're stupid enough you don't even realise your own stupidity?

Are you sure it's not satire (a Landover Baptist Church type thing)?


stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

[babazaroni]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

Start your own thread on this subject.

Njslim started this thread to discuss National Vanguard's outlandish theory.

[Pardalis]

Better yet, Skunk, educate yourself:

http://forums.randi.org/local_links.php?catid=18

[beachnut]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

Who timed it? They did not get the time right. Darn. Can not even get the time right.

Can any CTers find any facts and get anything right?

So you support the F-15 missile theory?

[defaultdotxbe]

wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed
wow, each word is more wrong than the last, thats impressive

[jon]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

Stick to the subject of the thread:

a) missiles couldn't be fired in central NY, with so many watching, without being noticed.
b) even if you believe that WTC7 came down 'unnaturally' like a controlled demolition (I don't, but you can start another thread if you want to argue about that), missiles wouldn't be a good way for Them to achieve this. Surprisingly, you don't often see missiles used in controlled demolition :jaw-dropp

Look skunkrider, even if you do believe that WTC7 was brought down in a controlled demolition, or even with space-based beam weapons, that doesn't mean you have to support a bunch of neo-nazi morons making ridiculous claims about missiles. Does it?

[skunkrider]

i just overflew the first post. i don't think this missile thing is true. and i have to stress that i am in no way any of those guys supporting beam weapons, no planes, holoplanes whatsoever.

that's all bs to me. they are ridiculing the movement, and it's distracting from what we should focus on:

wtc 7 + the coincidental failure of the whole american airborne military.

[Pardalis]

http://forums.randi.org/local_links.php?catid=18

[Dog Town]

that's all bs to me. they are ridiculing the movement,

Who better to ridicule the insane, than the insane? Saves us the typing...

[babazaroni]

Get a load of this posted over at the "SCREW LOOSE CHANGE" forum -
it from the goose steeping cretins at the National Vanguard, a neo
nazi, anti Semitie group. It has the Air Force fighters dispatched to
New York on the morning of 9/11 hitting the building with their missiles -
of course all this has been covered up .


http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058



This page looks just like something Killtown would make. The author has gathered pics, an overview map, and transcripts to support his idea that a missile missed WTC 6 and hit WTC 7.

A lot of people are overwhelmed by a professional presentation and fall for the dumb underlying concept.

[DavidJames]

...the coincidental failure of the whole american airborne military.Why don't you tell exactly what should have happened and back it up with evidence. Tell us about the military protocols that were in place prior to 9/11/2001 along with the evidence describing them along with links proving their existence.

[beachnut]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

debunk that :)

The robot voice said the building was sucked down, pulled down! Nut case video, for nut case CTers.

Neat video how did you find such a loony video? That pretty much proves the CTers are simple liars.

Sucked, Pulled down! Good job finding proof the truth movement is full of lies.

[Horatius]

What always amazes me is how the type of people who think their race is somehow superior are often so embarassingly, jaw-droppingly, cringe-makingly stupid. How anyone can claim that the NWO used planes to fire missiles into the building, in central NY, without anyone noticing... How anyone can claim this, and still, with a straight face, claim to be an example of a superior race, that's just beyond me - maybe if you're stupid enough you don't even realise your own stupidity?

Are you sure it's not satire (a Landover Baptist Church type thing)?


Today's Neo-Nazis Have No Respect For Tradition (http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/todays_neo_nazis_have_no)

It's true, the Onion has an article for everything!

[Loss Leader]

wtc 7 + the coincidental failure of the whole american airborne military.

There is no coincidence. The entire American air defense system operated on 9/11/01 exactly the way it was designed to. It protected the US from enemy aircraft and missiles launched from outside the United States. It kept all Russian bombers grounded. It kept all Chinese nukes in their silos. It kept every North Korean warship well away from the coast of the US and all of its terratories. Oh, and it also kept safe dozens and dozens of our allies, many of whom haven't bothered to even have an air defense system for the last several decades.

What people forget (and what really annoys me) is that the conventional wisdom on September 10, 2001 was that the events of September 11, 2001 were impossible. Our air defenses didn't fail anymore than our immigration policies failed, or cooperation between the FBI and the CIA failed, or the system by which intelligence makes its way to the President failed, or communications between police and firefighters in New York City failed.

We got tagged. Deal with it.

[beachnut]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Ml_n5gJgQ_U

debunk that :)

DEBUNKED! Your robot CTer idiot video is wrong as are all CTers for 9/11 "truth (lies)".

You need to work this out for yourself and you can cure your terminal stupidity (TS) in the process! Go find a video of WTC7 that other CTers have not speed up yet! Next use your head to figure out something for yourself. This is the first step to be cured from TS.

For example I found a video of WTC7 falling. I counted from the time the top began to fall to the time the building disappeared behind other buildings to be 7 (seven) seconds.

7 seconds! That would be 787 feet falling due to gravity! Our WTC7 (the old one) was only 570 feet high. We have also missing seconds when the building was still falling because other buildings are hiding the building hitting the ground. Plus we ignored the other side penthouse collapsing for several seconds earlier. So WTC7 took longer than free fall!

By the way 6 seconds would be 578 feet of free fall. Again WTC7 slower than free fall.

So your video is debunked and just a CTer telling lies to dolts who will believe anything as long as it supports some CT junk.

No you should go find a video to check the idiot video you posted. Then you can check it out yourself and prove you have made a mistake and you will be cured of TS.

Good luck. (do you know any CTers with a fact?)

[MarkyX]

do you know any CTers with a fact?


Does Watergate count?

[Mancman]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

Please present your momentum transfer calculations showing how much resistance the lower floors of WTC7 would have provided. I have mine, I'd like to see if you somehow come up with anything different. Thanks.

[MG1962]

Okay help me out here. Even with controlled demolition - the building can not fall faster than free fall........yes???

And does anyone else keep seeing the face of Drey Carey sidekick Oswald Lee Harvey whenever the narrator draws breath?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Okay help me out here. Even with controlled demolition - the building can not fall faster than free fall........yes???
The insane claim the video makes is that controlled demolition creates a rather large vacuum that sucks the building toward the ground faster than gravity itself would allow.

[MG1962]

The insane claim the video makes is that controlled demolition creates a rather large vacuum that sucks the building toward the ground faster than gravity itself would allow

Thanks I just wanted to make sure I wasn't loosing my marbles lol

[Belz...]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

So it's only partly, now ?

[MRC_Hans]

Trying to debunk the usual range of off the wall conspiracies concerning WTC 7 ( Ie. No plane hit the building, it was a star wars death beam,
Larry Silverman ordered the building pulled, etc) is difficult enough

Get a load of this posted over at the "SCREW LOOSE CHANGE" forum -
it from the goose steeping cretins at the National Vanguard, a neo
nazi, anti Semitie group. It has the Air Force fighters dispatched to
New York on the morning of 9/11 hitting the building with their missiles -
of course all this has been covered up .


http://www.nationalvanguard.org/printer.php?id=10058

Maybe should put these clowns in touch with several of my co-workers,
who were in WTC 7 that morning and ran for their lives.

Holy cow! Carlos' and Latin's magical flying hat again! Will it never end? Notice the doubled building edges in the pictures. They are from some transmisison of that film where there were either transmission-line reflections or an overdone edge-enhancement at work. Any of this makes distinct edges appear doubled or multiplied, but more importantly, it plays havoc with fuzzy contours. I think BlueMonk still have some clear versions of the same film on his site. All I have is a cutout from one of the frames, below, but a sensible analysis of this shot shows that the blurred object is much nearer to the camara than the tower, and that it travels horizontally along the street. Its shape and movements are consistent with a large bird, and indeed other clips from different angles, but showing roughty the same area reveal no strange object near the tower but several crow-like birds flying in the foreground.

Hans

[MRC_Hans]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speedThere is little to explain. The building collapsed on its bottom floors, and it should be expected to fall very close to free fall speed. If it were to fall much slower, it would require tremendous braking forces being transmitted up through the descending building, and it would most likely start to disintegrate.

The top parts of the towers did disintegrate during the collapse, and a more sequential break-down progressed downwards as the encreasing weight of wreckage bore down on the lower parts of the building. Hence the somewhat slower progress.

Hans

[valis]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

I don't think that timing a video playing on a computer is all that accurate a way to measure the time it took to collapse. I could be wrong because I don't work with video or anything; but that just strikes me as an unreliable way to do that.

Shouldn't you find the frame rate of the original video and count frame by frame to figure out the speed? That would seem to me to be more accurate.

Sorry that's a derail anyway.

To stay on subject, the way these theories work is anything you can imagine can be considered true. It is up to others to prove to you that things you imagine did not happen. I really don't see how the F-15 missile theory is that much crazier than the largest controlled demolition in history being conducted completely in secret theory.

[aggle-rithm]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

Partly in free fall speed....?

...the hell....?

[aggle-rithm]

There is no coincidence. The entire American air defense system operated on 9/11/01 exactly the way it was designed to. It protected the US from enemy aircraft and missiles launched from outside the United States. It kept all Russian bombers grounded. It kept all Chinese nukes in their silos. It kept every North Korean warship well away from the coast of the US and all of its terratories. Oh, and it also kept safe dozens and dozens of our allies, many of whom haven't bothered to even have an air defense system for the last several decades.

What people forget (and what really annoys me) is that the conventional wisdom on September 10, 2001 was that the events of September 11, 2001 were impossible. Our air defenses didn't fail anymore than our immigration policies failed, or cooperation between the FBI and the CIA failed, or the system by which intelligence makes its way to the President failed, or communications between police and firefighters in New York City failed.

We got tagged. Deal with it.


Absolutely. If we HAD been exceptionally strong at immigration screening and airport security, then the terrorists simply would have found a different weakness, and exploited THAT.

[Tirdun]

stop evading and explain the physical proof that wtc 7 collapsed partly in free fall speed

You are about 3 hours of class time shy of being able to formulate a coherent physics question. Of course then you wouldn't need to ask.

[JimBenArm]

You are about 3 hours of class time shy of being able to formulate a coherent physics question. Of course then you wouldn't need to ask.
Well, three hours of class time, and a functional cerebral cortex also.

[aggle-rithm]

The insane claim the video makes is that controlled demolition creates a rather large vacuum that sucks the building toward the ground faster than gravity itself would allow.

Has anyone calculated the affect the air pressure would have if this were actually true? Would the pressure from above really be enough to speed the fall that much over and above normal acceleration? Also, why wouldn't the sides of the building be affected?

[jaydeehess]

It is just possible that if one sealed off one floor and sucked the air out then blew the supports out that the air pressure above the building would cause the a collapse faster than free fall. It would be no different than strapping a small rocket on the top portion.

BUT

You can only do this once and the effect would be very small though I don't have the calcs. Think of it this way, you blow out a lower floor creating a higher pressure above that level than on that level and the building starts to collapse at that level faster than free fall , then you blow another floor creating a vacumm on that floor but now the air pressure is equally higher below that floor as it is above that floor and the lower portion is not attached to the ground anymore since you blew a lower floor already. The vacumm will pull UP on the lower portion with as much extra force as it pulls down on the upper section creating NO NET difference in the momentum of the building than if you did not have the second detonation, the upper section may be a little faster but the lower section is now falling a little slower.

BUT

There is another problem. 'Implosions' occur when an explosive goes off and has such a fast pressure wave so as to move the air out of that volume. As the pressure dissapates the air then rushes back into that volume. NOTE that the air is pushed outward first. If such a device went off near a stand of trees you would see the tres first bend away from the site of detonation then whip back the other way air rushes back. In a building then such a detonation would first lift the upper floors before sucking them down.

[defaultdotxbe]

for every conspiracy theory there is a loyal cult-like following awaiting a leader

http://screwloosechange.xbehome.com/index.php?showtopic=1451

[beachnut]

BUT
the other way air rushes back. In a building then such a detonation would first lift the upper floors before sucking them down.

In a CD the explosive are very small; they use gravity to do the work of dmolition. This is why 9/11 looks like CD; gravity did it on 9/11 and gravity does CD.

CTer have not studied CD to know gravity is used and only a few pounds of explosive are used at each key point. The fire would of cooked off any explosives in the building at the impact zones. Or in WTC7 the fires would have rendered all the explosive useless exploding hours before the collapse. Sorry CTers, they failed to concider the 20,000 gallons of fuel stored in WTC7. That is why the smoke was like 20,000 gallons of fuel burning all day.

How many times will CTer fail to study a subject.

[LashL]

There is no coincidence. The entire American air defense system operated on 9/11/01 exactly the way it was designed to. It protected the US from enemy aircraft and missiles launched from outside the United States. It kept all Russian bombers grounded. It kept all Chinese nukes in their silos. It kept every North Korean warship well away from the coast of the US and all of its terratories. Oh, and it also kept safe dozens and dozens of our allies, many of whom haven't bothered to even have an air defense system for the last several decades.

What people forget (and what really annoys me) is that the conventional wisdom on September 10, 2001 was that the events of September 11, 2001 were impossible. Our air defenses didn't fail anymore than our immigration policies failed, or cooperation between the FBI and the CIA failed, or the system by which intelligence makes its way to the President failed, or communications between police and firefighters in New York City failed.

We got tagged. Deal with it.

This post deserves repeating. So, I repeated it.