The 84% Myth

[Cl1mh4224rd]

There's a good chance this has been covered before, but I've seen a handful of people who aren't exactly sure why the "84% of Americans are Truthers" claim is a complete sham.

The claim originates from Alex Jones' website, on which is an article titled "Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/141006poll.htm)".

Now, here's the kicker: He links to the source of his numbers, which, when examined (not even closely) completely turns the claim on it's head.

Here's the actual question and results (source (http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469), linked to from Jones' own site):

When it comes to what they knew prior to September 11th, 2001, about possible terrorist attacks against the United States, do you think members of the Bush Administration are telling the truth, are mostly telling the truth but hiding something, or are they mostly lying?

Telling the truth|16%
Hiding something|53%
Mostly lying|28%
Not sure|3%

Methodology: Telephone interviews with 983 American adults, conducted from Oct. 5 to Oct. 8, 2006. Margin of error is 4 per cent.
Firstly, the question isn't even about the official account of events on September 11th. It's about what the government knew or didn't know prior to September 11th. He says it, but glosses over it.

Secondly, as anyone can see, Jones completely misrepresents the results of this poll. He shoehorns the "mostly telling the truth, but hiding something" and "Not sure" answers into "rejects the official account", where "Mostly lying" is the only answer that's even remotely relevant to his claim (keeping in mind, again, that this is about the government's statements of pre-9/11 knowledge and not the events on 9/11).

I can't even begin to believe that this could be an "honest mistake" (and one that hasn't been retracted in the 3 months since its posting). This was a deliberately constructed deception by Jones.

That it's so easily debunked is what makes this mind-boggling to me. Even worse is that people actually still believe it...

[Dog Town]

My personal fave, via Scripps Howard.

Question/VAR 28:

The Pentagon was not struck by an airliner captured by terrorists but, instead was hit by a cruise missle fired by the U.S. military.*

Very likely 6%
Somewhat likely 6%
Not likely 80%
Don't kniow 7%
Other response 1%

and..
Question/VAR 29:

The collapse if the twin towers in New York was aided by explosives secretly planted in the two buildings.*

Very likely 6%
Somewhat likely 10%
Unlikely 77%
Don't know 6%
Other response 1%

yet...
Question/VAR 26:

The federal government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from others planets?*

Very likely 16%
Somewhat likely 22%
Unlikely 54%
Don't know 8%


http://www.newspolls.org/question.php?question_id=715


Owwwwchee!

[Anti-sophist]

Does anyone have the poll that shows that decreasing education level shows an increase in 9/11 conspiracy belief?

[JamesB]

Does anyone have the poll that shows that decreasing education level shows an increase in 9/11 conspiracy belief?

I don't think this is the only one that says that, it is pretty consistent.

The level of suspicion of U.S. official involvement in a 9/11 conspiracy was only slightly behind the 40 percent who suspect "officials in the federal government were directly responsible for the assassination of President Kennedy" and the 38 percent who believe "the federal government is withholding proof of the existence of intelligent life from other planets."

The poll found that a majority of young adults give at least some credence to a 9/11 conspiracy compared to less than a fourth of people 65 or older. Members of racial and ethnic minorities, people with only a high school education and Democrats were especially likely to suspect federal involvement in 9/11.


http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll

[CHF]

84%. That's an easy one to debunk.

Number of twoofers at Ground Zero on 9/11/06: 800-1,000

Number of twoofer candidates elected in 2006: zero

Number of twoofers doing something constructive/significant with their amazing proof: zero

Most revolutionary movements would triumphantly sweep to power with 84% public support.

Yet the twoof movement's 84% apparently adds up to a bunch of teenage stoners, deranged theology profs and retarded hippies posting spam and BS on message boards.

[T.A.M.]

Here is one I doubt we will ever actually be able to really DEBUNK, but one I would love to see beaten down...

"Truthers are Millions strong now, and growing stronger everyday".

TAM:(

[Dog Town]

"Truthers are Millions strong now, and growing stronger everyday".

TAM:(

Yes...there is one born every minute! To paraphrase P.T.B.

[Brainster]

Does anyone have the poll that shows that decreasing education level shows an increase in 9/11 conspiracy belief?

Yep. That's quite evident from the statistics, although of course not emphasized by the Deniers. The Zogby Poll details from May (Word document (http://www.911truth.org/downloads/911TruthZogbyFinalReport.doc)) reads in part:

24. Some people believe that the US government and its 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks, saying there has been a cover-up. Others say that the 9/11 Commission was a bi-partisan group of honest and well-respected people and that there is no reason they would want to cover-up anything. Who are you more likely to agree with?

US government and 9/11 Commission are NOT covering up 48%
US government and 9/11 Commission are covering up 42
Not sure 10

Close to half (48%) agrees the U.S. government and 9/11 Commission are not covering up anything, yet nearly as many (42%) believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up. One in ten (10%) is unsure.

Both men and women and residents in each of the four regions are more likely to say the U.S. government and 9/11 Commission are not covering up anything. Majorities who agree include Republicans (64%), 50-64 year-olds, married adults, suburbanites (59%), Protestants, those with at least some college education, and people with annual household income of $50,000 or more (57%).

Majorities (50%-56%) of Democrats, 18-29 year-olds, Hispanics, single adults and those who are divorced/widowed/separated, residents of small cities, and adults with less education than a high school diploma believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up something. Nearly half of independent voters (48%) agree.

The Scripps-Howard Poll that was widely quoted as showing 36% of the people believed in 9-11 Nuttery also contained similar findings--the average level of woo definitely declines as one gets more education.

My favorite poll result though has to be one from USA Today (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/US/08/22/osama.poll/index.html), from last August.

As the five-year anniversary of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks approaches, nearly three-fourths of those responding to a CNN poll said they believe Osama bin Laden is planning another significant attack against the United States.

Seventy-four percent of the 1,033 adult Americans polled said they believe an attack is being planned, according to the poll conducted by Opinion Research Corporation on behalf of CNN.

So 74% of Americans clearly don't buy 9-11 Denial. That leaves 26%. The Cartman kids.

[T.A.M.]

Majorities (50%-56%) of Democrats, 18-29 year-olds, Hispanics, single adults and those who are divorced/widowed/separated, residents of small cities, and adults with less education than a high school diploma believe the government and 9/11 Commission are covering up something. Nearly half of independent voters (48%) agree.

The Left, The young/naive, The downtrodden, The lonely, The bitter, The isolated, the uneducated, are all more likely...well that makes sense, people in all these areas IN GENERAL, tend to be more paranoid and/or suspicous over their government.

TAM

[ktesibios]

The statement that someone believes the gummint is "covering something up" isn't sufficient to infer that they've gone twoofy. Without specifics about the beliefs involved, there's no way to draw a supportable conclusion to that or any other effect.

It's no more irrational to assume that a blue-ribbon panel's report about a disaster probably contains a dose of bureaucratic CYA somewhere than it is to assume that it doesn't.

[apathoid]

{snip}.....

So 74% of Americans clearly don't buy 9-11 Denial. That leaves 26%. The Cartman kids.

The 26th percentile on the IQ bell curve is in the high 80's. I guess Perry is right. :)

..They are mostly angry white guys with IQ's in the mid-80's.

[JamesB]

Once again, to quote that great American philosopher, Eric Cartman:

Cartman: They aren't going to find out who did it, but they will make up a scapegoat, send him to detention, and make us all believe it. It will be 9/11 all over again.

Kyle: Will you shut up about 9/11!

Cartman: Kyle, why are you so afraid of the truth?

Kyle: Because anybody who thinks 9/11 is a conspiracy is a retard!

Cartman: Oh really, well did you know that over 1/4th of the people in America think that 9/11 was a conspiracy? Are you saying that 1/4th of Americans are retards?

Kyle: Yes, I am saying that 1/4th of Americans are retards.

Stan: At least 1/4th.

Kyle: Let's take a test sample. There's 4 of us, you're a retard. That's 1/4th.

[Shrinker]

Here is one I doubt we will ever actually be able to really DEBUNK, but one I would love to see beaten down...

"Truthers are Millions strong now, and growing stronger everyday".

TAM:(

Well, a random sample of truther websites shows that its a novelty and its wearing off...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d33ee5c6c.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d33f2715e.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d33f55b38.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d36c8521e.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d36cab34a.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d36cd52f2.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d59f43608.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d59f68799.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d59f8e4dd.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d609ade71.png
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/361745b9d609d4f3e.png

[Brainache]

I'd love to see one of those graphs for Pilots for Truth. I imagine it would be fairly flat.

[Coritani]

I'd love to see one of those graphs for Pilots for Truth. I imagine it would be fairly flat.

http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?f=555555&u=Pilotsfor911truth.org&u=&u=&u=&u=&r=6m&y=r&z=1&h=300&w=500
(Source) (http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?url=Pilotsfor911truth.org)


:dl:

[Shrinker]

I'd love to see one of those graphs for Pilots for Truth. I imagine it would be fairly flat.

I tried it but it seems like its not been around long enough to get an Alexa graph. If you want to compare other sites go to www.alexa.com. I used the 3 yr graph with maximum smoothing.

[Brainache]

If I had a dog, he would be pounding the floor and laughing like mad.

[PerryLogan]

Thanks to all of you for another informative thread. Your efficiency at debunking is impressive for a bunch of government shills, or elitists, or whatever we are.

Obviously, this "everyone is waking up" meme is part of the same mental disorder that causes the Truthers to see nonexistent conspiracies in the first place. Leave it to Alex Jones to make the silliest claim possible.

(If you listen to Alex for a while, you realize that numbers mean nothing to him. Alex just throws out big numbers, then makes them bigger and bigger. At this point, Alex is saying the White House stole three trillion dollars from the Pentagon--or was it six trillion? You can tell that boy is a Texan.)

The Scripps Howard poll strikes me as the most accurate--where the question was completely unambiguous and direct. So the Truthers turn out to be about 6% of the populace--or less.

I'll also bet that half or more of the people who said "yes" to the poll would reconsider once they looked into the matter and saw how silly the "inside job" story is. So you end up with a mere smidge of Truthers. They may be the same guys who think Elvis is still alive.

[Spins]

I tried it but it seems like its not been around long enough to get an Alexa graph. If you want to compare other sites go to www.alexa.com (http://www.alexa.com). I used the 3 yr graph with maximum smoothing.Over the last 3 years it's been a steady increase in traffic for JREF...

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?site0=forums.randi.org&site1=&site2=&site3=&site4=&y=r&z=3&h=300&w=500&range=3y&size=Medium&url=forums.randi.org

:cool:

[MRC_Hans]

Just for reference, here is the graph for this forum ;):

Hans :D

ETA: Oh, Spins beat me to it, heheh.

[chipmunk stew]

To complete the picture, this is Killtown's host site, 911review.org:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/512245ba132884e7e.png

Looks like interest is waning across the board.

They generally show growth in early 2006 (soon after LC2E was introduced to Google Video) and a spike around the fifth anniversary, followed by a precipitous drop.

Several show a spike in the second quarter of '06. What's that all about?

[uk_dave]

To complete the picture, this is Killtown's host site, 911review.org:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/512245ba132884e7e.png

Looks like interest is waning across the board.

They generally show growth in early 2006 (soon after LC2E was introduced to Google Video) and a spike around the fifth anniversary, followed by a precipitous drop.

Several show a spike in the second quarter of '06. What's that all about?

I wondered about that spike. Anything to do with the controversy over ABC's 911 docudrama?

[chipmunk stew]

Over the last 3 years it's been a steady increase in traffic for JREF...

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?site0=forums.randi.org&site1=&site2=&site3=&site4=&y=r&z=3&h=300&w=500&range=3y&size=Medium&url=forums.randi.org

:cool:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/512245ba158da7656.png

:bananapowerslide:

[Peephole]

The Left, The young/naive, The downtrodden, The lonely, The bitter, The isolated, the uneducated, are all more likely...well that makes sense, people in all these areas IN GENERAL, tend to be more paranoid and/or suspicous over their government.

TAM
You forgot the right. They're just keeping a low profile because their guy is in power (except for the libertarian idiots).

[Cuddles]

The Left, The young/naive, The downtrodden, The lonely, The bitter, The isolated, the uneducated, are all more likely...well that makes sense, people in all these areas IN GENERAL, tend to be more paranoid and/or suspicous over their government.

TAM

Hmm, I'd have to question the "left" bit. I think it far more likely that Democrats think the government is hiding something because it is not thier government. If the Democrats were in power I'd expect the roles to be more or less reversed. Of course, I accept that left-leaning types are more likely to be suspicious of government, but I think in this case it is probably simple opposition that is the most important factor.

Edit : Apparently great minds think alike. :p

[Peephole]

I wouldn't say left-leaning types are more likely to be suspicious of government. Sure, there's the anarchists on the left side but on the right side you've got the libertarians. And you're always gonna see guys right-wing guys who think Republicans aren't right-leaning enough and left-wing guys who think democrats aren't left-leaning enough, they tend to come up with conspiracy ******** as well.

[Architect]

Just for reference, here is the graph for this forum ;):

Hans :D

ETA: Oh, Spins beat me to it, heheh.


Should it worry me that two of the dips are when I was in hospital? :boggled:

[jhunter1163]

I wondered about that spike. Anything to do with the controversy over ABC's 911 docudrama?

Maybe the release of "United 93"?

[T.A.M.]

I wouldn't say left-leaning types are more likely to be suspicious of government. Sure, there's the anarchists on the left side but on the right side you've got the libertarians. And you're always gonna see guys right-wing guys who think Republicans aren't right-leaning enough and left-wing guys who think democrats aren't left-leaning enough, they tend to come up with conspiracy ******** as well.

over history, IMO, those to the left have been more vocal on keeping govt in check. Particularly now, as mentioned, as a right "Rep" govt is in power.

TAM

[A W Smith]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/512245ba132884e7e.png


Several show a spike in the second quarter of '06. What's that all about?


The second spike seems to land right on the fifth anniversary of 9/11

[chipmunk stew]

Maybe the release of "United 93"?
Aha! Yeah, I think you're right. The spike seems to peak in May, and the U93 movie was released in the US on April 28.

[aggle-rithm]

You can tell that boy is a Texan.

Say what?

[rwguinn]

Originally Posted by PerryLogan http://forums.randi.org/helloworld/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2287480#post2287480)
You can tell that boy is a Texan. Say what?


Either a reference to "Everything's bigger and better in Texas"--including the fact that the first liar doesn't stand a chance...
or "Ah, shucks--you paid for lnch, I'll pick up the Cadilacs"

[aggle-rithm]

Originally Posted by PerryLogan http://forums.randi.org/helloworld/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2287480#post2287480)
You can tell that boy is a Texan.


Either a reference to "Everything's bigger and better in Texas"--including the fact that the first liar doesn't stand a chance...
or "Ah, shucks--you paid for lnch, I'll pick up the Cadilacs"

OK. I read it as "all Texans are full of crap".

I can't say whether that's true or not, because I haven't MET all Texans.

[rwguinn]

OK. I read it as "all Texans are full of crap".

I can't say whether that's true or not, because I haven't MET all Texans.
Smalle when you say that, Podner!

Whilst I was born in the Grating State of Texas, I ave always felt that "True Texan" was a state of mind, rather than an accident of birth...

[Crazycowbob]

Agreed!

Besides, when the **** hits the fan, who do they turn to? :D

[PerryLogan]

Say what?I was alluding to the Texas tradition of the "Tall Tale" (i.e., lying and BSing) in connection with Alex Jones' tendency to inflate numbers. Not tryin' to make trouble here, podnah. Just passin' through these parts.

[rwguinn]

I was alluding to the Texas tradition of the "Tall Tale" (i.e., lying and BSing) in connection with Alex Jones' tendency to inflate numbers. Not tryin' to make trouble here, podnah. Just passin' through these parts.
Y'all jist keep on a driftin, pilgrim.
so, next question
Which is funnier--Hogs, or Texans, on Ice?
Keep in mind that hogs don't drive 3 ton 4WD pickups.

[Crazycowbob]

True, but if they did I bet hogs wouldn't think that, just 'cause they got 4 wheel drive, they can romp over anything they want without sliding around...

That's why I like my tank, just as much steel as those bozo's, and still a comfy ride and decent milage :)

[rwguinn]

True, but if they did I bet hogs wouldn't think that, just 'cause they got 4 wheel drive, they can romp over anything they want without sliding around...

That's why I like my tank, just as much steel as those bozo's, and still a comfy ride and decent milage :)
What's a guy from Lubbock doing with water in his avatar?
It's not August!
Lubbock is pronounced Lu-bick, for non-West Texans out there, and it's primary import is dust.

[Panoply_Prefect]

There's a good chance this has been covered before, but I've seen a handful of people who aren't exactly sure why the "84% of Americans are Truthers" claim is a complete sham.

The claim originates from Alex Jones' website, on which is an article titled "Scientific Poll: 84% Reject Official 9/11 Story (http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/October2006/141006poll.htm)".

Now, here's the kicker: He links to the source of his numbers, which, when examined (not even closely) completely turns the claim on it's head.

Here's the actual question and results (source (http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13469), linked to from Jones' own site):


Firstly, the question isn't even about the official account of events on September 11th. It's about what the government knew or didn't know prior to September 11th. He says it, but glosses over it.

Secondly, as anyone can see, Jones completely misrepresents the results of this poll. He shoehorns the "mostly telling the truth, but hiding something" and "Not sure" answers into "rejects the official account", where "Mostly lying" is the only answer that's even remotely relevant to his claim (keeping in mind, again, that this is about the government's statements of pre-9/11 knowledge and not the events on 9/11).

I can't even begin to believe that this could be an "honest mistake" (and one that hasn't been retracted in the 3 months since its posting). This was a deliberately constructed deception by Jones.

That it's so easily debunked is what makes this mind-boggling to me. Even worse is that people actually still believe it...


Actually that poll was one of the first things posted in the comment-section when I upped the Screw 911 Mysteries torrent:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2270949&postcount=92

I've come across that poll numerous times often together with the poll (http://www.savethemales.ca/001728.html)that shows that "45% of the US population blames the Bush administration for the 911-attack" - which incidently wasn't at all what the poll in question showed (http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/09/11/rel21i.pdf) (It was about wether or not the US pop think that the Bush and the Clinton admininstration did enough to prevent them. And it acutally shows a slight increase since 2002 in how many think the government can prevent a future attack).


Americans Blame Bush for 9-11 Attacks
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The percentage of Americans who blame the Bush administration for the September 11, 2001, attacks on New York and Washington has risen from almost a third to almost half over the past four years, a CNN poll released Monday found.
Cheers,
SLOB

[Crazycowbob]

What's a guy from Lubbock doing with water in his avatar?
It's not August!
Lubbock is pronounced Lu-bick, for non-West Texans out there, and it's primary import is dust.

Hey, a guy can dream can't he?

And we don't import dust, we grow it nice and fresh right here!

[defaultdotxbe]

What's a guy from Lubbock doing with water in his avatar?
It's not August!
Lubbock is pronounced Lu-bick, for non-West Texans out there, and it's primary import is dust.
dust and ufo flaps (http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/images/lubbock_lights51.jpg) ;)

[Mince]

And, really, is 983 of 300 million (or 0.000327%) people representative?

[gumboot]

And, really, is 983 of 300 million (or 0.000327%) people representative?


I think that is why the margin of error is +/- 4%.

It's interesting that only about 6% actually believe the CTs when you get specific.

I recall reading somewhere that in random polling, regardless of the question at hand, any answer will always get about 7%. In other words, 7% = zero.

So for example, if you polled "Are you a big freaky weirdo alien bug man?" at least 7% of respondants would answer "Yes, I am".

So really, if 6% of Americans believe in the CD theory, that means, correcting for the smart-a** factor, that actually -1% of Americans believe it. ;)

-Gumboot

[Coritani]

I recall reading somewhere that in random polling, regardless of the question at hand, any answer will always get about 7%. In other words, 7% = zero.

So for example, if you polled "Are you a big freaky weirdo alien bug man?" at least 7% of respondants would answer "Yes, I am".

-Gumboot

:eye-poppi

What the? How?

[Panoply_Prefect]

The correct way to size up a sample is science in itself:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(statistics)


and you cant really judge a sample if the only information, as in this case is "conducted by telephone with 983 American adults". Lets say all those 983 adults lived at (this is an extreme example) a military base. Or if you called at the same time a day, only reaching those at home. 983 adults sounds like a very small sample though (and why did they pic just 983? Why not 1000? My guess is they did pick 1000 but could only reach 983 which in itself poses a problem) if it is to represent the entire US population.

Cheers,
SLOB

[Crazycowbob]

dust and ufo flaps (http://www.ufoconspiracy.com/images/lubbock_lights51.jpg) ;)

Ooooh, that is just too funny! Considering there are about a million geese that frequent this city, I find it hard to believe someone actually thought that was a picture of UFO's...

Did they leave a name or address? It think it's time to pull a dogbert and increase my savings. :D

[JonnyFive]

Whilst I was born in the Grating State of Texas, I ave always felt that "True Texan" was a state of mind, rather than an accident of birth...

I misread this as "accident of girth" when I glanced at it. Pity, it's kind of funny that way.

[Horatius]

I recall reading somewhere that in random polling, regardless of the question at hand, any answer will always get about 7%. In other words, 7% = zero.

So for example, if you polled "Are you a big freaky weirdo alien bug man?" at least 7% of respondants would answer "Yes, I am".

-Gumboot

:eye-poppi

What the? How?

There are some individuals out there who consider it their patriotic duty to screw up marketing polls and the like by giving the wrong answers. For instance, I make over $1million per year, have 16 kids, and live alone in 3 houses :)

[HyJinX]

There are some individuals out there who consider it their patriotic duty to screw up marketing polls and the like by giving the wrong answers. For instance, I make over $1million per year, have 16 kids, and live alone in 3 houses :)

Do each of the houses have a 17' concrete core?

I thought so.

Inside Job. :rolleyes:

[defaultdotxbe]

So really, if 6% of Americans believe in the CD theory, that means, correcting for the smart-a** factor, that actually -1% of Americans believe it. ;)

-Gumboot
correcting for the +/-4% anywhere from -5% to 3% believe it

[rwguinn]

I misread this as "accident of girth" when I glanced at it. Pity, it's kind of funny that way.
We are not amused at your amusement...:)
Do you know me? work with me? You tryinabefunny?
You Mock me, sir!:mad:
:D :D

yes, I am a (little guy)^-1

[JonnyFive]

We are not amused at your amusement...:)
Do you know me? work with me? You tryinabefunny?
You Mock me, sir!:mad:
:D :D

yes, I am a (little guy)^-1

Oh, come now, I was just having a little fun poking at Texans.

[ponderingturtle]

Smalle when you say that, Podner!

Whilst I was born in the Grating State of Texas, I ave always felt that "True Texan" was a state of mind, rather than an accident of birth...

So bush can be a true Texan in spite of being born in New Haven Connecticut? Are we inventing a True Texan fallacy?

[Hourglassmemory]

There's a good chance this has been covered before, but I've seen a handful of people who aren't exactly sure why the "84% of Americans are Truthers" claim is a complete sham.


Something I noticed.
Alex jones claims that 84% are Truthers. Basically, 84% believes the government is lying.
I may have found out how he arrived at that "stunning" conclusion.
Keeping out the people who voted "is telling the truth"...when you add the other three together you get 84%. In his mind, people who are fence-sitters, are Truthers.
I am not saying he DID this maths, but when you know how Alex Jones works...it's not very hard to imagine

[defaultdotxbe]

Something I noticed.
Alex jones claims that 84% are Truthers. Basically, 84% believes the government is lying.
I may have found out how he arrived at that "stunning" conclusion.
Keeping out the people who voted "is telling the truth"...when you add the other three together you get 84%. In his mind, people who are fence-sitters, are Truthers.
I am not saying he DID this maths, but when you know how Alex Jones works...it's not very hard to imagine
thats pretty much it, 16% thinks the govt is telling the truth, so the other 84% must think they are lying

when you deal with truthers a lot you realize most of the see only black and white, no shades of gray, if yo think they are telling the truth you must always think they tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, if you think they are lying they must be incapable of EVER telling the truth

just look at the some of the dicussions here that delve into the political, truthers are dumfounded by people who dont like bush but dont think he orchestrated 9/11, in their minds such an opinion cannot exist

[jaydeehess]

I conjecture that the habit of banning those who disagree with the 'movement' on 911 truther forums has greatly contributed to the leveling off and susequent decline.

To a new poster it becomes apparent quickly that dissent is heavily discouraged and that many dissenters get banned for little other reason other than they are not following the doctrine of the truth movement. That plus infighting among 'truthers' make most people move on. Others who persist get banned.

This means that the forums are populated mostly by like minded persons. Discussion will then slow since there is little new to discuss in such a narrow feild. That makes many drift away. Soon one gets to a situation suchas at P4T that is pretty much stagnant. When a new poster does come on he/she is pounced on and either is welcomed or quickly banned.