We Scored One For The Skeptics! [Archive]

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8den

26th January 2007, 03:42 AM

Hi, as many of you know I posted a thread earlier in the week, bemoaning Irish State TV (RTE) planned screening of Loose Change. I and some other Randi folk e-mailed RTE. with links to some of gravy's articles, internet dectectives, screw loose change etc. I explicitly said I didn't want the film censored but I thought it would be reckless of RTE to screen the film without putting it in the broader context, through a disclaimer, or a discussion program preceding or after the film.

Today I recieved this response

-----------------------------

Your email of 24 January has been forwarded to me. I am responsible for the Programme-Makers’ Guidelines, the complaints processes, etc. Thank you for the information you have provided about the programme “Loose Change”. Our Programmes Acquisitions people who purchased the rights to the programme were aware of the controversy that surrounds many of the claims made in the programme. Their view was that the screening of the film with a suitable introduction which would place the programme in context would be of interest to viewers and would contribute to the debate around the events of 9/11.

I know that you have not requested that the programme be censored or removed from the schedule. However having considered the additional programming that might be required to place “Loose Change” in context RTÉ has decided that these cannot be justified for a programme with a transmission at around midnight and which is likely to be viewed by a very small number of people.

We have decided therefore not to broadcast “Loose Change”.

If you want to discuss this further please feel free to phone me.

Best wishes
----------------------------

Boys take a bow, you all earned your NWO paycheque today, we just need to figure out a way of getting Irish taxpayer money out of Do over's hands.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to re-register on loose change forums, post this info and get banned.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 03:46 AM

Well begorrah and bejesus!

:D

Firestone

26th January 2007, 03:47 AM

Well, that is good news!

This sentence in the mail is precious: "However having considered the additional programming that might be required to place “Loose Change” in context".

It's a very polite way of saying: "There is so much wrong in Loose Change that we don't know even where to begin."

They could broadcast Screw Loose Change, of course. MarkyX as allready done all the "additional programming that might be required to place “Loose Change” in context".

Coritani

26th January 2007, 03:50 AM

Well done to all who helped keep this horrid pack of lies off TV.

From the LC forums (they don't know it's been cancelled yet, it seems):

RTÉ is to show Loose Change sometime over the next few weeks. The schedule hasn't been announced - but they've started running ads.

in a strange way, this is monumental.

well at last a tv company with balls to stand up to the info war that has been propgated in the usa well done rte lets hope it happens

RTÉ is to show Loose Change sometime over the next few weeks. The schedule hasn't been announced - but they've started running ads.
AWESOME!

From this thread (http://youhide.com/nph-info.pl/010110A/687474703a2f2f7a31302e696e766973696f6e667265652e63 6f6d2f4c6f6f73655f4368616e67655f466f72756d2f696e64 65782e7068703f73686f77746f7069633d32383537) (URL is through a proxy; that's the only way I can get onto LC).

Just when they had their hopes up! :D

Brainache

26th January 2007, 03:50 AM

Well that's it I can no longer tell Irish jokes. What a shame the History Channel wasn't as receptive.

8den

26th January 2007, 03:53 AM

Floating around the 911truth.ie site I just found this fecking gem

http://www.911truth.ie/plus-emails/plus42.html

Anaylsis of South Parks 911 truth episode..

"We are told to believe that the fire from the jet fuel melted the steel framing of the towers, which led to their
collapse. But did you know jet fuel doesn't burn at a high enough temperature to melt steel?"
[the other kids look at each other. Kyle's eyes are half-closed, showing his disinterest]
"We were told the Pentagon was hit by a hijacked plane as well, but now look at this photo of the Pentagon. The hole is
not nearly big enough. And if a plane hit it, where is the rest of the plane?"
Clyde: "Whoa..."
Cartman: "So now, the inevitable question: if terrorists didn't cause 9/11, who did?"
Clyde’s reaction to the photographs of the Pentagon is indicative of the reaction that the vast majority of us have had
when first viewing them. It is still our strongest argument in terms of illustrating a conspiracy on 9/11. We might as
well repeat the complex logic here. Boeing 757’s weighing 250,000 tonnes and with a wingspan of 135 feet CANNOT enter
holes in buildings with 14 feet diameters. I for one am willing to stake my reputation on that elaborate deduction. Cartman then goes into the numerology. Suffice to say for the purposes of this email, it is without doubt that numerology
is used (for whatever purposes) by those with whom we are opposed. I’m hoping to write this argument up in due course but
it’s not something you want to risk doing without being fully confident of one’s command of the topic, and unfortunately,
that takes a little time.

There's a quote from another episode that I feel is apt

"Are you high or just incredibly stupid."

Rich M

26th January 2007, 03:54 AM

That is superb news; just shows what a small, polite email campaign can do. Score one for sanity!

Gravy

26th January 2007, 03:55 AM

:bigclap

Well done!

Coritani

26th January 2007, 03:57 AM

Floating around the 911truth.ie site I just found this fecking gem

http://www.911truth.ie/plus-emails/plus42.html

Anaylsis of South Parks 911 truth episode..

There's a quote from another episode that I feel is apt

"Are you high or just incredibly stupid."

250,000 tonnes?

That's one massive plane!

8den

26th January 2007, 03:59 AM

:bigclap

Well done!

Gravy take that bow yourself, it was your methodical work that made my argument so solid.

Guinness at ground zero, when I make it to new york?

Gravy

26th January 2007, 04:05 AM

Gravy

26th January 2007, 04:06 AM

Gravy take that bow yourself, it was your methodical work that made my argument so solid.

Guinness at ground zero, when I make it to new york?O'Hara's it is!

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:11 AM

I know that you have not requested that the programme be censored or removed from the schedule. However having considered the additional programming that might be required to place “Loose Change” in context RTÉ has decided that these cannot be justified for a programme with a transmission at around midnight and which is likely to be viewed by a very small number of people.

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

Coritani

26th January 2007, 04:14 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

What?

LC is full of lies. Seen Screw Loose Change, or read Gravy's Loose Change Guide? I can give you links if you need 'em.

Now, I don't like censorship (and, I suspect, neither do many other people here as well) but LC is just a pack of errors, lies and speculation.

bonavada

26th January 2007, 04:17 AM

MortFurd

26th January 2007, 04:28 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:
A victory in the fight against the lies, innuendo, false physics, and flat out stupidity that is the 911 "Truth Movement."

brodski

26th January 2007, 04:48 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

This is not censorship. Read the e-mail from RTE, as a public service broadcaster it has a duty to provide balance. After it was pointed out just how unbalanced the fantasies contained in Loose Change are, RTE had one of two options, they could either broadcast a programme presenting the factual rebuttal to Loose Change, or not broadcast at all. They deemed that the interest in this issue from their audience is so small, that they could not justify a second programme.
Not however that if Loose Change could support its allegations and innuendo, and was a factual documentary (rather than a catalogue of lies) there would not be the same pressing need for a second programme to balance the first.
Perhaps when LC:FE comes out, in it's "error free" version, RTE will be able to justify broadcast without a "balancing" counter programme. of course, if LC:FE really is error free, then it would have to conclude that 9/11 happened pretty much as the various official reports say it happened.

8den

26th January 2007, 05:00 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

Actuall pagan, read the e-mail I wrote and the response I got, I was utterly aganist the censorship of the film, I wanted it framed in context. RTE acknowledged that and said they just didn't have the resources to do so.

JAStewart

26th January 2007, 05:10 AM

Thats fantastic news!

Score one!

jon

26th January 2007, 05:12 AM

Wow - that's great news :D Well done, everyone.

One other thought - does RTE make public how much it pays for its content, or is there a Freedom of Information type thing? I'd like to know how much they paid for LC, just to emphasise the brilliance of the bright spark who decded to show this in the first place ;)

The Doc

26th January 2007, 05:21 AM

Nice work :)

After some inspiration I just wrote into the History Channel in Australia and will be giving them a call tomorrow ;)

They'll probably bush me off, but meh. Lol.

geni

26th January 2007, 05:23 AM

Well done to all who helped keep this horrid pack of lies off TV.

From the LC forums (they don't know it's been cancelled yet, it seems):

From this thread (http://youhide.com/nph-info.pl/010110A/687474703a2f2f7a31302e696e766973696f6e667265652e63 6f6d2f4c6f6f73655f4368616e67655f466f72756d2f696e64 65782e7068703f73686f77746f7069633d32383537) (URL is through a proxy; that's the only way I can get onto LC).

Just when they had their hopes up! :D

link doesn't work waht was the name of the thread?
ETA ah found it
Lc To Be Shown On Irish State Tv, On RTÉ

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=2857

JAStewart

26th January 2007, 05:24 AM

http://youhide.com/nph-info.pl/010110A/687474703a2f2f7a31302e696e766973696f6e667265652e63 6f6d2f4c6f6f73655f4368616e67655f466f72756d2f696e64 65782e7068703f733d66356561653662663263333739643135 353365373834333236373463646536352673686f77746f7069 633d3238353726766965773d6765746e6577706f7374

wahaha, the news has hit home.

MRC_Hans

26th January 2007, 05:26 AM

Sometimes before this Xmas, a Danish radio channel ran a digest of LC in more or less prime time, and I sat and got all worked up, .... then they proceeded to rip it to pieces :D, mainly using the PM research, but also other sources, and topping it with a psychologist trying to explain what makes CTs tick. That was a good evening :).

Hans

ETA: Sorry, it was a TV channel, of course (not much fun in LC on radio).

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 05:26 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

Great result.

Censorship? No.

Spreading lies and paranoid delusions is what this BS movie is all about.

Keep living the lie pal; keep blaming everybody because your lies and delusions can be seen through.

Again, great result.

Gravy

26th January 2007, 05:36 AM

DohP is upset. That's how I like to start my day.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&st=0#entry11525698

Gravy

26th January 2007, 05:37 AM

Foolmewunz

26th January 2007, 06:37 AM

8den! My spiders are happy! They don't get happy often and it's been a rough week on several fronts, so the boys just wanted to sing you a chorus....

:spjimlad: :spjimlad: :spjimlad: :spjimlad: :spjimlad:

"Bravo! Bravo! Bravissimo!"

The Doc

26th January 2007, 06:40 AM

DohP is upset. That's how I like to start my day.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&st=0#entry11525698

What really ticks me off about this guy is he calls you a pedophile apologist, and then has the nerve to whine when you call him 'DohP'.

Clearly a troubled kid that DohP.

wahrheit

26th January 2007, 06:50 AM

:yahoo

Fantastic news, congratulations to 8den and all the others who wrote to RTE.

:bowl: Strike!

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 07:07 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

You just can't accept that an independent entity, outside the US no less, examined the evidence that has been compiled against Loose Change and decided LC just couldn't be balanced against the massive, overwhelming evidence against it, can you?

It must have been "censorship", despite the obvious request not to censor LC, but to present the other side of the story as well. The TV station, which I must reinterate was not in the US or controlled by the US in any way, decided it wasn't possible to even broadcast the amount of material that debunks the insanity within Loose Change.

Oh no, it had to be censorship.

You couldn't even tell us what your theory of events was, and you have a hard time believing that not everyone finds the LC theories compelling?

I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, even the wooiest of the woos. After all, everyone deserves at least a chance to prove their theories with real evidence.

But you CTists have failed to do that time and time again. You're living in a fantasy world where Bush/the NWO/the Jews/the Illuminati/the US government/the space aliens/whoever destroyed the WTC towers and damaged the Pentagon for some reason, and everyone that disagrees with you is a Bush-loving government shill who has an IQ of 12 and, did I mention, loves Bush more than anything.

Get over yourselves, you can't even come up with a coherent theory of what happened, and that's just pathetic.

VespaGuy

26th January 2007, 07:07 AM

Wonderful news. Well done everyone. Kudos to all who wrote in.

GlennB

26th January 2007, 07:16 AM

Great work all concerned :) :) :) :) :)

chipmunk stew

26th January 2007, 08:04 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:
Would you support the airing of The Birth of a Nation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Birth_of_a_Nation) without making a careful point of presenting it within an appropriate context? Would you be happy to see it aired to stand on its own, with no explanation?

mailman

26th January 2007, 08:24 AM

OBVIOUSLY this is more proof of the power of the joooooo! The CLEARLY control Irish TV.

All one has to do to see the truth of the matter is to take their brains out and let the wind blow through the cavity between the airs...hehehe :)

Regards

Mailman

TheGrunion

26th January 2007, 08:25 AM

Wow, absolutely wonderful news!

Great job and much thanks!

Donal

26th January 2007, 08:27 AM

Its not censorship. That would be if the Irish government prevented LC from being shown. In this case, am entity of the Irish government said they would not actively participate in its showing.

See the difference?

LashL

26th January 2007, 08:50 AM

However having considered the additional programming that might be required to place “Loose Change” in context RTÉ has decided that these cannot be justified for a programme with a transmission at around midnight and which is likely to be viewed by a very small number of people.

Priceless. :D

Well done, 8den and all who wrote to RTE.

:bigclap

Brainache

26th January 2007, 09:02 AM

mmmm Irish Jew....tasty and filling. Meat, potatoes, carrots and gravy.

Loss Leader

26th January 2007, 09:11 AM

Congratulations. It's always nice to see the success of rational arguments politely made.

chipmunk stew

26th January 2007, 09:13 AM

In the LC thread linked above, which has spun wildly off-topic, George Hayduke resurrects our old friend Lauro Chavez:
CENTCOM whistleblower Sergeant Lauro "LJ" Chavez says "all" the exercises that day were "hijacks."
http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&view=findpost&p=11528575

Does this mean that there are still sites out there that have not retracted this hoax (or deleted it and pretended it never happened)?

TC329

26th January 2007, 09:59 AM

volatile

26th January 2007, 10:01 AM

Quad4_72

26th January 2007, 10:02 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

Aw poor Pagan. Nobody wants to spread his fantasy.

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 10:06 AM

Arus808

26th January 2007, 10:08 AM

why do the troofer have to spout a Godwin and think they are going to win with such speech?

Once a Godwin is invoked, the person who invoked it lost the argument.

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 10:08 AM

Arus808

26th January 2007, 10:11 AM

oh and freedom of speech in ireland? Loose Change, if aired, would have probably gotten the creators into trouble (criminally):

Republic of Ireland

Freedom of speech is protected by Article 40.6.1 of the Irish constitution (http://www.answers.com/topic/constitution-of-ireland). However the article qualifies this right, providing that it may not be used to undermine "public order or morality or the authority of the State". Furthermore, the constitution explicitly requires that the publication of "blasphemous, seditious, or indecent matter" be a criminal offence.
The scope of the protection afforded by this Article has, to a large degree as a result of the wording of the Article, which qualifies the right before articulating it, been interpreted restrictively by the judiciary. Indeed, until an authoritative pronouncement on the issue by the Supreme Court, many believed that the protection was restricted to "convictions and opinions" and, as a result, a separate right to communicate was, by necessity, implied into Article 40.3.2. This judicial conservatism is at variance with the concept of speech as a democratic imperative. This, albeit trite, justification for free speech has underpinned the liberal, progressive interpretation of the First Amendment by the United States Supreme Court.

Under the European Convention On Human Rights Act, 2003, all of the rights afforded by the European Convention form an integral part of the Republic of Ireland (http://www.answers.com/topic/republic-of-ireland)'s laws. The act is, however, subordinate to the constitution.

jon

26th January 2007, 10:12 AM

I would just like to pop in and congratulate the Nazi party on managing to silence their opposition!

Great job standing up for things you believe in (silencing those with differing opinions) and making a stand against that which you despise (the 1st Amendment of the Constitution).

Hitler would be soooooo proud of you all! I bet the Bush's are as well!

Congrats again!

Sincerely,

Your silenced opposition

Wow - I never knew that the Nazi's relied on writing polite letters. Or that the 1st amendment of the US constitution was something that a) *requires* people to broadcast BS and b) applies to the Republic of Ireland. What next - Operation British Freedom, when the US invades us in order to force the BBC to respect your 1st Amendment rights by broadcasting Loose Change?

Don't worry - I'm sure you can distribute your ideas through bastions of anti-Nazi resistance like, um, American Free Press and Wing TV. Maybe some of these folks really do believe that the Nazis never went further than sending off a couple of letters to their opponents :rolleyes:

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 10:15 AM

Dylan's got alot of house cleaning to do over at LCF today!!

Can't have the backers and the newbies see what a mess that forum is.

:D

Quad4_72

26th January 2007, 10:15 AM

Gravy

26th January 2007, 10:16 AM

Great job standing up for things you believe in (silencing those with differing opinions).Said the proud Loose Change forum member.

:dl:

Quad4_72

26th January 2007, 10:18 AM

Said the proud Loose Change forum member.

:dl:

HAHAHAHAHA! I never thought about that.

JamesB

26th January 2007, 10:23 AM

In the LC thread linked above, which has spun wildly off-topic, George Hayduke resurrects our old friend Lauro Chavez:

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&view=findpost&p=11528575

Does this mean that there are still sites out there that have not retracted this hoax (or deleted it and pretended it never happened)?

Hell, he is still a member of Veterans for 9/11 Truth. They are for the truth, remember.

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 10:30 AM

Wow - I never knew that the Nazi's relied on writing polite letters.

Dear Poland:

Would you mind terribly laying down your arms and allowing us to annex half your country? Oh, and in case you don't hear from him, Stalin is taking the other half.

Your friend,

Hitler

PS: Pay no attention to the raping and pillaging. Our guys just need to get it out of their system, you know?

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 10:31 AM

I just took a quick look at the LC forum. Those guys are crowing their success at being able to find FACTS in Loose Change. "See? It's not ALL lies!" they state proudly.

I guess it helps their self-esteem to keep their standards so low.

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 10:32 AM

I would just like to pop in and congratulate the Nazi party on managing to silence their opposition!

Great job standing up for things you believe in (silencing those with differing opinions) and making a stand against that which you despise (the 1st Amendment of the Constitution).

Hitler would be soooooo proud of you all! I bet the Bush's are as well!

Congrats again!

Sincerely,

Your silenced opposition

Save your self righteous outrage for the school play ground, boy. You have not got a clue what you are talking about.

You guys just get off on playing the poor victim, the poor oppressed freedom fighter who is standing up against the totalitarian state. Playing the poor underdog, who against all odds freed humanity from itself.

Please child, give it a rest, nobody is silencing you, nobody is oppressing you, and nobody is suppressing you. Nobody is victimising you, nobody is watching, you, nobody is stalking you, nobody is listening to you, nobody gives a **** about you and you BS movie. Other than you and like minded loonies, living in the same little paranoid world you live in.

Go back to the playground, grow up and start living in the real world.

Not the one that allows you on the net every night and from the safety of your mommy’s basement to accuse innocent people of mass murder and anybody who doesn't agree with you of being Nazis.

Child.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 10:33 AM

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:48 AM

Thanks for the congrats Terrorcell but you guys are the Hitlerites so why are you confusing yourself with we here at the JREF forum? Also, if you have been silenced why are you here? Since you are here and you apparently think your a ghost, why don't you apply for the 1 million dollar challenge?

This whole forum is so full of doublethink it is very disturbing. Beyond Orwellian.....

You manage to supress millions of people from hearing information that you disagree with and call us Hilterites.

You believe the official story put out by the US government and you call yourself "skeptics".

Loss Leader

26th January 2007, 10:49 AM

I would just like to pop in and congratulate the Nazi party

Party? You call this a party? The beer is warm and the women are cold.

Hitler would be soooooo proud of you all!

As a Jew, I doubt Hitler's primary feelings about me could be described as "pride."

I bet the Bush's are as well!

For the love of Pete, what is it about tr00thers that makes them incapable of mastering the apostrophe? What does Bush own in that sentence? What belongs to Bush? Nothing? Then there is no apostrophe!

R.Mackey

26th January 2007, 10:52 AM

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 10:54 AM

Eckolaker

26th January 2007, 10:55 AM

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

HyJinX

26th January 2007, 10:56 AM

For the love of Pete, what is it about tr00thers that makes them incapable of mastering the apostrophe? What does Bush own in that sentence? What belongs to Bush? Nothing? Then there is no apostrophe!

:dl:

That was funny.

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:56 AM

HyJinX

26th January 2007, 10:57 AM

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

And we're equally stunned by your repeated failure to think rationally or logically...and your inability to support any of your claims with facts or evidence. When are you going to grow up and be a big boy?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 10:57 AM

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

Much obliged. :)

The Almond

26th January 2007, 10:58 AM

You manage to supress millions of people from hearing information that you disagree with and call us Hilterites.

Disagree with? Actually, it's a series of lies, half-truths, out of context quotations, faulty logic, and baseless accusations that we're fighting against. Let's not trivialize this to an issue of opinions here. Loose Change is full of lies, errors and omissions, and those are not the subject of opinion. Jason Bermas admitted that Loose Change has errors that were intentionally left in the movie.

You believe the official story put out by the US government and you call yourself "skeptics".
Belief is not required. We have looked at the evidence and it is overwhelmingly in support of the Government's position. It would be incredibly dumb to discount the government story simply because it's the government's story, right? So the messenger doesn't matter. When I read NIST's report and compare it to the Truth movement's "science" and "physics," I find the conspiracy side incredibly lacking in data, evidence and rational thought.

No, I don't believe the government's story. I know the evidence, and it overwhelmingly supports the government's story.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 11:01 AM

Shining example of "intelligent" discussion on the JREF forums.

well, seeing as that you have the education of a 4th grader, its not surprising that you couldn't understand it.

The Almond

26th January 2007, 11:01 AM

Shining example of "intelligent" discussion on the JREF forums.

I rather think so. I think I'll nominate it.

TC329

26th January 2007, 11:01 AM

... yet, against all odds, this classic post -- straight from the mouth of the "silenced opposition" -- will go on standing at the JREF Forum, unbowed by dint of moderators, free from the Ban Hammer What Bans At Midnight.

It's a fascinating world, that you Deniers have built for yourselves.

You people aren't really bright at all. You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television. I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm. You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.

Or is this the "spin zone" where the O'Reilly wannabe's of the world all gather to see how this can take statements and turn their meanings into something completely different?

boloboffin

26th January 2007, 11:02 AM

Good Lord, the film suppressed itself, if anything did. If it weren't such a crammed tin of unbalanced lies, the need for balancing materials wouldn't have be recognized, and the program would have aired.

It's like Typhoid Mary complaining about not being able to make a few more pots of soup.

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 11:02 AM

Shining example of "intelligent" discussion on the JREF forums.

Yes I have an allergy. An allergy to BS that you try to promote, plus I dislike being labelled a Nazi by you, of course you could apologies in which case I will engage you intellectual debate. Until then you will be treated with the contempt you treat me and other members on this forum with.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:02 AM

What was the Hitler comparison for, Terrorcell?

DavidJames

26th January 2007, 11:06 AM

You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television. Of course you can support this with evidence right? Evidence which shows someone from JREF "suppressed" the broadcast. Yes, you can produce contents of an email suggesting they show the diarrhea in context. But you need to show that JREF made the decision to support your claim.

Here's a prediction asshat, you won't because you can't. You make claims you can't support all the time, why would this be any different. Prove me wrong, troll.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 11:07 AM

I'm sorry, maybe I have this wrong, but I thought RTE had dropped loose change because the factual inaccuracies were pointed out to them and they decided that they could no longer justify showing a film full of lies without devoting a similar amount of time to pointing out those lies, and that they didn't have the time available to do so?

And TC and Ekolocator are whining about this?

Jeez, maybe avery should have made a better documentary in the first place. Don't bitch to us, bitch to him.

TC329

26th January 2007, 11:07 AM

It is not information, boy, it is lies and nobody as supressed it.

Yes it is factual information, girl. It is truth and now someone here has had it removed from Irish television in order to supress information they don't want people to be exposed to.

If it was all lies then you guys would want people to see it so they can crosscheck the information themselves, girl. Once they try that, girl, then they would find out it's all BS, girl. Wouldn't they?

But the fact that you support this information being supressed means you don't believe your own BS, girl. It's soooo obvious. If you only knew how many "lurkers" were laughing at you and not with you.

Loss Leader

26th January 2007, 11:07 AM

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

Say what you will about this tr00ther, at least he didn't misuse an apostrophe. The sentence fragment is another matter entirely.

"Wow! I am simply stunned at the audacity of you people."

How fracking hard was that?

Arus808

26th January 2007, 11:08 AM

You people aren't really bright at all.
Your post is a shining example of how bright we are and you're ill equipped to even try and debate us. this is why:

You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television.;

Please read the first post in this thread. Where in that post did it say that any one of us (or anyone at all) except for the TV station, suppressed it ? Opportunity? Wasn't it the creators who released this fantasy film to the NET? and handed out free dvd's? Oh, you delude yourself to think that no one has the opportunity to view that fairy tale of a film. Its available to anyone who wants to see it, if they so choose to.

It was up to the tV station to not air it. Not us. Not you. Not god. and definitely not elvis, hitler, or the boogie man. And through their own choice, they felt that airing Loose Change did not fit with their programming because of the need to ad ADDITIONAL programming to give a fair and balanced view about 9/11. Something that they felt would be a waste of their time, and that since it was scheduled to air at their midnight hour, the audience would be too small to warrant any extra work on their part.

Pissed off? You can air your grievance to them.

I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm. You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.

You're the only one thus far that has demonstrated consistently your poor grasp of reading comprehension 101.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:09 AM

Terrorcell, why did you compare us to the Nazi party?

R.Mackey

26th January 2007, 11:10 AM

You people aren't really bright at all.
Quite a strong charge. Let's see how you back that up.

You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television.
;) Uh huh. So you claim that we had the authority, and made the decision, not to show this movie.

Need I point out that, first of all, we don't have authority over Irish television? And second, all we did was voice a public concern about the screening?

The decision was theirs. We suppressed nothing. So far, looks like we're brighter than you.

I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm.
You signed your last message, and I quote, "Your silenced opposition."

You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.
That noise you just heard was an Irony Meter taking too much spin, shearing its mounting plates, and breaking the sound barrier.

Or is this the "spin zone" where the O'Reilly wannabe's of the world all gather to see how this can take statements and turn their meanings into something completely different?
This is the JREF Forum, where intelligent people share opinions, facts, and hypotheses about a broad variety of topics. It also attracts more than its share of malcontents and paranoiacs, and fellows like yourself who overindulge in the "False Choice" fallacy.

Thanks for the laugh, ErrorCell.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 11:10 AM

Yes it is factual information, girl.

80 errors presented in a hour or so long fantasy film is not factual, boy.

A W Smith

26th January 2007, 11:10 AM

They went looking to plunder the leprechauns pot of gold and fill it with nonsense. Only to find he had a new visa debit card.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 11:11 AM

Terrorcell, why did you compare us to the Nazi party?

Because all our facts come from AFP?

No, no that can't be right...must be thinking of a different forum...

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 11:14 AM

You people aren't really bright at all. You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television. I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm. You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.

I'm sorry, I missed the part where we "suppressed people" somehow. I thought that some of the forum members wrote and asked the TV network to air balancing material. When said network reviewed the material, they decided that there was too much countering the LC "documentary" to make it worth airing it at all. It's not like they replaced it with a Bush love fest (to the best of my knowledge).

How, precisely, is that suppression?

Oh wait, it isn't. You have no right to complain about our lack of reading comprehension when you don't even display the simple ability to distinguish requesting a TV network present the counter information to Loose Change from us using some previously unknown authority to "suppress" the film.

Or is this the "spin zone" where the O'Reilly wannabe's of the world all gather to see how this can take statements and turn their meanings into something completely different?

What did you say about my mother? You take that back, or I'll have at you!

Brainster

26th January 2007, 11:16 AM

Great job, 8DEN and others who wrote! The only thing that makes this better is the moaning about censorship from the Deniers!

JimBenArm

26th January 2007, 11:17 AM

beachnut

26th January 2007, 11:18 AM

What utter BS. A victory for censorship, you guys must be proud.:mad:

No! Wrong; How can you show a film full of lies without explaining it is one sided lies first and after.

LC video is so full of lies it is just biased propaganda.

It is not censor ship to pull the lies off the air. It is good idea not to push lies unless people know they are lies. Fiction should be introduced as such.

Censorship is what LCF does. Of course you have to censor the truth when you are selling lies. Ask Dylan. Go head ask Dylan.

Dylan said I began writing "Loose Change," a fictional story ...

But it turned out to be just lies now!

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 11:18 AM

Great job, 8DEN and others who wrote! The only thing that makes this better is the moaning about censorship from the Deniers!

If this is censorship, what do you call people being banned over at LCF for disagreeing with the "party line"?

Since the truthers here seem to think the 1st amendment applies when a private individual or organization censors another individual, perhaps they should turn their gaze inward before declaring us suppressive persons or whatever else.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 11:19 AM

Gravy's enjoying himself over at LCF

It's good that the lad gets out now and again, since the 'truther' insult...I mean 'assault' never materialised.

We should run a book on whether the "Jrefers Have Stopped A Screening Of Loose Change" thread survives the day.

I give 50-1 against it being there saturday morning (GMT)

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 11:20 AM

I'm sorry. Did you say something? Couldn't hear you what with you being silenced and everything. Must be hard to speak from inside that coffin. Oh, wait. You're not dead? Not even prevented from posting here?

How did we silence you? Pretty poor job of it, in my opinion!

Yeah, who was in charge of that? Couldn't they have at least broken his fingers so he couldn't type?

You can't get good help these days... ;)

Kiwiwriter

26th January 2007, 11:21 AM

Let me get this straight...some honorable people write to Irish TV and urge them that if they air "Loose Change," they do so with opposing material, to provide context and truth. They don't call for it to be censored.

Irish TV decides on its own that airing explanations for all the nonsense on "Loose Change" would make a gigantic mess of their TV schedule, resulting in the movie airing at midnight. So they decide it's not worth having to air "Loose Change" and spend the next 10 days disavowing its message.

That says more about the errors in "Loose Change" that need to be corrected than about censorship.

And precisely how did JREF "censor" or "control" Irish TV? Oh, that's right, James Randi, being a magician, waved his magic wand, and poof! No more "Loose Change" on Irish TV! It turned into a re-run of "The Quiet Man," starring John Wayne.

And we're supposed to be the omnipotent Nazis.

You know, I'd like to ask the LCers a question. Let us presume for the sake of argument and hilarity that Dylan Avery and his merry band overturn the US government, and take it over, thus creating the new millennium, and my daughter is taught in school that George Bush and his villainous neo-Cons and Masons blew up the World Trade Center.

When my daughter gets up in class and says she knows that isn't so, because of the testimony of her good friend Michael Sheridan, the WTC's Operations Manager, will she be allowed to say that in class, under Dylan's rule? Will she be allowed by Dylan and the LC Forum government to print that as a story, article, or newsletter? Post it on a web-site? Argue it in a movie or on TV?

Judging from how the LC Forum bans argument on its web-site, I don't think so. Which begs the next question...who's doing the real censorship?

zooloo

26th January 2007, 11:21 AM

This is a good day for the Truth about 9/11 as this proves the Jooooooooos control the Vatican who sent orders to Ireland to suppress the real story of WTC.

THAT'S FACT YOU SCEPTICS! SEE IT'S ALL TRUE TRUE I TELL YOU TR-HA-HA HAHAHAH-UE TR-HAHAHAHHAHA

(Nurse! He's getting out of his bed again.)

Arkan_Wolfshade

26th January 2007, 11:23 AM

You people aren't really bright at all. You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television. I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm. You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.

Or is this the "spin zone" where the O'Reilly wannabe's of the world all gather to see how this can take statements and turn their meanings into something completely different?
That is an outright lie, and you well know it. The OP contacted the station and asked that they show alternative views on the movie along with the film. The station decided they did not have the time, or viewership in the time slot to properly present all the sides and therefore decided not to do a half-ass job of it.

To try to make that decision, which was based on what you so often call for, on impartiality into censorship is no different than the propaganda put forth by Koresh, Rev. J. Jones, Manson and their ilk. You daily cultic activities highlight your biases and hypocrisy.

Anti-sophist

26th January 2007, 11:24 AM

It's so funny to watch them run their website like lockstep fascists and then preach about their freedoms and rail against the stifling of dissent. It's just funny.

The fact that they are just plain wrong about censorship is completely and utterly overshadowed by the abject hypocrisy.

TC329

26th January 2007, 11:26 AM

Terrorcell, why did you compare us to the Nazi party?

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

We live in a world where people believe only Democrats are crooked politicians, or only Republicans. Not both.

We live in a world where we know our government has repeatedly proven to have lied to us. They have carried out experiments on our soldiers. They have carried out experiments on our own citizens. They have lied about the existence of WMD's, Secret CIA prisons, Torture, Domestic Spying, etc. People have had to resign after scandal after scandal after scandal.

The 9/11 Commission has stated they were set up to fail. They were underfunded, rushed, and stonewalled. They have admitted that there are 100 people within our own government they could have "hanged" for 9/11.

Yet the "skeptics" (i.e. the people who believe what the government says....see the doublethink on that?) still OPPOSE A NEW INDEPENDENT AND TRANSPARENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE EVENTS THAT HAVE LED US TO WAR WITHOUT END.

America was attacked by 19 Saudi's who "hate our freedoms".

The Bush Administration them made 300,000,000 Americans suspects the following day and have been attacking our freedoms ever since. Attacking countries based on lies. Planning to attack more based on fear.

3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Why not support a new investigation and put an end to all of this???????

What are the "skeptics" (I use that term very loosely when talking about people here) so afraid of?

The American people dumped more money into finding out the intimate details of a former President's sex life than finding out everything about 9/11. Nearly 20 times as much money.

I don't understand how if you're side is right you can still oppose an investigation that would silence my side once and for all. Even before I became a member of this movement, back when I was a die hard Bush supporting registered Republican, I supported the family members who wanted a new investigation because they still had many unanswered questions.

I still believe the United States Government should be held accountable to the people and if the people still have unanswered questions then they should be answered. I don't understand how anyone can claim to love America and everything it is about and disagree.

Unless of course, they believe in the superiority of their government. In which case that would make them Nationalists.

Many people today confuse Nationalism with Patriotism. They couldn't possibly be more different from each other........

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:27 AM

Terrorcell, why did you compare us to the Nazi party?

TC329

26th January 2007, 11:29 AM

Let me get this straight...some honorable people write to Irish TV and urge them that if they air "Loose Change," they do so with opposing material, to provide context and truth. They don't call for it to be censored.

Is it your claim that the official version of the 9/11 story hasn't received a fair amount of radio and tv time to promote it's version of the events?

Over the last 5 years, the official version of the events hasn't received any attention in the media or television.

This was the time to offer the opposing view point. The mainstream one has been repeated for years and years and years without question on tv, radio, and anywhere else it can be.

HyJinX

26th January 2007, 11:30 AM

<SNIP> 3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions. <SNIP>

What EXACTLY are the unanswered questions that you and the truthers do not have answers to? You guys say this all the time but nobody tells me what the friggin questions are!

Arkan_Wolfshade

26th January 2007, 11:31 AM

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

We live in a world where people believe only Democrats are crooked politicians, or only Republicans. Not both.

We live in a world where we know our government has repeatedly proven to have lied to us. They have carried out experiments on our soldiers. They have carried out experiments on our own citizens. They have lied about the existence of WMD's, Secret CIA prisons, Torture, Domestic Spying, etc. People have had to resign after scandal after scandal after scandal.

The 9/11 Commission has stated they were set up to fail. They were underfunded, rushed, and stonewalled. They have admitted that there are 100 people within our own government they could have "hanged" for 9/11.

Yet the "skeptics" (i.e. the people who believe what the government says....see the doublethink on that?) still OPPOSE A NEW INDEPENDENT AND TRANSPARENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE EVENTS THAT HAVE LED US TO WAR WITHOUT END.

America was attacked by 19 Saudi's who "hate our freedoms".

The Bush Administration them made 300,000,000 Americans suspects the following day and have been attacking our freedoms ever since. Attacking countries based on lies. Planning to attack more based on fear.

3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

Why not support a new investigation and put an end to all of this???????

What are the "skeptics" (I use that term very loosely when talking about people here) so afraid of?

The American people dumped more money into finding out the intimate details of a former President's sex life than finding out everything about 9/11. Nearly 20 times as much money.

I don't understand how if you're side is right you can still oppose an investigation that would silence my side once and for all. Even before I became a member of this movement, back when I was a die hard Bush supporting registered Republican, I supported the family members who wanted a new investigation because they still had many unanswered questions.

I still believe the United States Government should be held accountable to the people and if the people still have unanswered questions then they should be answered. I don't understand how anyone can claim to love America and everything it is about and disagree.

Unless of course, they believe in the superiority of their government. In which case that would make them Nationalists.

Many people today confuse Nationalism with Patriotism. They couldn't possibly be more different from each other........

Your diatribes read like a Jack Chick pamphlet. Not entirely surprising since you are part of a belief system; and not based on objective, verifiable evidence obtained through proper scientific methodology.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:32 AM

I don't understand how if you're side is right you can still oppose an investigation that would silence my side once and for all.

BTW, I am not against a new investigation.

Do it already.

Arkan_Wolfshade

26th January 2007, 11:34 AM

BTW, I am not against a new investigation.

Do it already.
Indeed, no one is stopping the 911 Cult from funding their own investigation in to the events. One could argue that the drek they've spewed forth over the past five years constitutes an ongoing investigation.

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 11:36 AM

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

You seem to have a thing about nationalism... I assume therefore that you're a globalist.

It's ok, we won't tell roxdog. :D

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:37 AM

You seem to have a thing about nationalism... I assume therefore that you're a globalist.

It's ok, we won't tell roxdog. :D

Ouch!

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 11:42 AM

Indeed, no one is stopping the 911 Cult from funding their own investigation in to the events. One could argue that the drek they've spewed forth over the past five years constitutes an ongoing investigation.

I would imagine it's very hard to investigate this whole thing when you believe that all engineers, architects, physicists, mathematicians, demolitions experts, police officers, fire fighters, fire safety experts, criminal investigators, insurance company employees, government workers, and people not named "Alex Jones" or "Dylan Avery" are somehow involved in the massive government plot to destroy America.

I mean, where do you even start? ;)

8den

26th January 2007, 11:43 AM

I notice Dylan hasn't said a peep, I guess he's already cashed this cheque and isn't bothered whether they show it or not.

jon

26th January 2007, 11:44 AM

Is it your claim that the official version of the 9/11 story hasn't received a fair amount of radio and tv time to promote it's version of the events?

Over the last 5 years, the official version of the events hasn't received any attention in the media or television.

This was the time to offer the opposing view point. The mainstream one has been repeated for years and years and years without question on tv, radio, and anywhere else it can be.

Loose Change isn't 'the' opposing view. It's one opposing view, and a particularly silly one.

There have been lots of other critical looks at the events of and reponses to 9/1 - for example, Jarecki's film Why We Fight, Rideway's book on The 5 Unanswered Questions about 9/11, or Chomsky's work on US foreign policy. Loose Change and the Truth Movement is just giving the Bush administration a much-needed boost, by making it easier to evade important questions and by making critics look like wingnuts.

I think it's great when the mainstream media looks critically at the events of 9/11. I don't think that means they have to expose their audience to stupidity and/or lies like LC. Likewise, looking at 'both sides' of the debate around funding for space exploration is great - but I don't think that means that the media need to give serious attention to the claim that the moon landings were faked.

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 11:45 AM

BTW, I am not against a new investigation.

Do it already.

It'll never happen. The only people they would consider qualified to investigate would be the same people they believe perpetrated the attacks.

beachnut

26th January 2007, 11:46 AM

Yes it is factual information, girl. It is truth and now someone here has had it removed from Irish television in order to supress information they don't want people to be exposed to.

If it was all lies then you guys would want people to see it so they can crosscheck the information themselves, girl. Once they try that, girl, then they would find out it's all BS, girl. Wouldn't they?

But the fact that you support this information being supressed means you don't believe your own BS, girl. It's soooo obvious. If you only knew how many "lurkers" were laughing at you and not with you.

It is just a pack of lies from the leader of the pack!

Dylan said it best and then fooled you! I began writing "Loose Change," a fictional story

Just fiction and you are too smart to look.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:52 AM

It'll never happen. The only people they would consider qualified to investigate would be the same people they believe perpetrated the attacks.

Exactly. They say they are just asking questions, but in fact they are saying "9/11 was an inside job", which is not a question but an affirmation, an accusation.

Terrorcell, why do you want a new investigation if you say you already have the answer?

Cl1mh4224rd

26th January 2007, 11:52 AM

GlennB

26th January 2007, 11:54 AM

chipmunk stew

26th January 2007, 11:55 AM

Yes it is factual information, girl. It is truth...
Really! Perhaps you'd like to take up the Mark Roberts Challenge?

Name one material claim that Loose Change gets right.

JonnyFive

26th January 2007, 11:56 AM

If it hasn't been said yet, I'd just like to point that Dylan barely even supports Loose Change anymore, admitting that it's full of errors. It takes a special kind of ignorance to want and defend the broadcast of such a thing...

Even if he came out and said it was a load of bull, they'd probably just claim that the government finally got to him. Threatened his family or some such garbage.

Funny that it would take so long, but you know how those government bureaucracies are.

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 11:58 AM

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

Sort of like your beliefs, only substitute "movement" for "government".

We live in a world where we know our government has repeatedly proven to have lied to us. They have carried out experiments on our soldiers. They have carried out experiments on our own citizens. They have lied about the existence of WMD's, Secret CIA prisons, Torture, Domestic Spying, etc. People have had to resign after scandal after scandal after scandal.

So why hasn't anyone had to resign over 9/11?

The 9/11 Commission has stated they were set up to fail. They were underfunded, rushed, and stonewalled. They have admitted that there are 100 people within our own government they could have "hanged" for 9/11.

Source?

The Bush Administration them made 300,000,000 Americans suspects the following day and have been attacking our freedoms ever since.

That would be tricky, given that the population didn't reach 300,000,000 until five years later.

Why not support a new investigation and put an end to all of this???????

Because it wouldn't put an end to anything unless the conclusions of the investigation matched what you already believe.

What are the "skeptics" (I use that term very loosely when talking about people here) so afraid of?

Ignorance, maybe, spreading like a cancer and infecting vulnerable folks who haven't made up their minds and don't have the ability to discern fact from fantasy.

The American people dumped more money into finding out the intimate details of a former President's sex life than finding out everything about 9/11. Nearly 20 times as much money.

This surprises you why? Sex pays, man.

I don't understand how if you're side is right you can still oppose an investigation that would silence my side once and for all.

Because it won't, and because

A) you would never approve of an investigation unless it was conducted by troofers, and

B) you don't consider such an investigation legitimate because it's already been going on for five years, and you're still saying "we need an investigation".

VespaGuy

26th January 2007, 12:02 PM

You people aren't really bright at all.

Really? I find that many of the folks here are quite intelligent. Here's a thread where many of the posters list their education and background as it is relevant to the events of 9/11.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70895&highlight=expertise

Feel free to add your experience and education to the list TC.

Loss Leader

26th January 2007, 12:06 PM

Terrorcell, why did you compare us to the Nazi party?

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

Nationalism and Nazism are not synonymous. Nationalism is the extreme belief in the superiority of one's own nation. National Socialism, on the other hand, was whatever Hitler wanted whenever he wanted it. Nationalism was only a small part of the core of Nazism. It is illogical to say that anyone who is a Nationalist is also a Nazi. That is like saying that all Americans are from Illinois (being from Illinois means one is also American just like being a Nazi means one is also a Nationalist).

We live in a world where people believe only Democrats are crooked politicians, or only Republicans. Not both.

You contradict yourself. You called us nationalists who believe that whatever our government says is always right. Then you state that we are a divided nation where people think the other half is always wrong.

We live in a world where we know our government has repeatedly proven to have lied to us.

Fascinating. However, in our system of government, power is conferred and is taken away by the people. Those who have committed crimes against the people while in office are punnished. Real Nationalism, on the other hand, does not allow people to question their government and does not allow for the removal of a public official for any misdeed.

So, has our government repeatedly lied to us or have some individuals who governed lied to us? Agnew and Nixon were both driven from office in disgrace. The domestic spying program was exposed and some portions have already been ended. Renditions and CIA prisons have been exposed and have embarrassed the President. And just recently, the people of this nation turned control of the congress over to the opposition party based on their dissatisfaction.

So how have we been standing steadfastly by one unchanging, unaccountable government?

America was attacked by 19 Saudi's who "hate our freedoms".

Fifteen.

3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

List them.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 12:09 PM

3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.
List them.

The questions, not the victims. ;)

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 12:12 PM

I think it's the Trooters who are guilty of double-speak.

They're accusing the US government of being responsible for 9/11, and at the same time asking them (the US government) to redo an investigation on themselves, which will (in their mind) lead to their incrimination. Since the government won't do that, they accuse them of being behind 9/11.

:boggled: :boggled:

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 12:14 PM

Fifteen.

It's really embarassing. The truthers can't get ANYTHING right.

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 12:24 PM

Yes it is factual information, girl. It is truth and now someone here has had it removed from Irish television in order to supress information they don't want people to be exposed to.

Please state all the facts in LC.
Please state who had it removed from RTE.
Please state what information is being suppressed.

If it was all lies then you guys would want people to see it so they can crosscheck the information themselves, girl. Once they try that, girl, then they would find out it's all BS, girl. Wouldn't they?

I bolded for you, the truth.

But the fact that you support this information being supressed means you don't believe your own BS, girl. It's soooo obvious. If you only knew how many "lurkers" were laughing at you and not with you

I do not support the suppression of any information. I am pleased the RTE will not be broadcasting a pack of lies though. I am pleased that your utter garbage will not be show to more people who in turn will get suckered into your silly world.

You have failed totally to convince anybody because you are supporting lies.

You and those that support this silly movie are actually suppressing the real failing prior to 911. You and your merry band of freedom fighters are actually burying the real truth in your silly conspiracies, in your paranoid world of suppression.

You are distorting facts to fit into your world view, whereby unless everybody agrees with you then everybody blindly follows Bush and applauds the disaster of the wars in the Middle. Everybody is blissfully unaware of the world injustices and simply follow their Hitler like leader, like the Nazis you choose to label people who call you and your rubbish out.

You are so blind to reality and the real world you prefer to resort to propaganda and simply demonise all those who see straight through your conspiracies. You,incorrectly, believe you are being suppressed, yet you have the right, the freedom to accuse the President of the USA and the present administration of mass murder of 3000 of their own. You do this daily.

You are allowed to freely express your opinion, you are freely allowed to accuse those that run your country of mass murder, you accuse them of torture, human rights abuses, unjust wars, and you even compare them to Hitler and the Nazi party.

Yet, nothing happens; you are allowed to do it. You are allowed to do this because it is your right to do this; it is your basic human right to do so. This right you take for granted, you believe it is your god given right to do this. But if you for a moment took the time to just look beyond your shores you would see there are many countries where many people are denied this right. They do not have the right to speak out; they really do live in fear and oppression from their Governments. This is something you have not and will not ever experience, because the last time I looked the USA was a democracy, the biggest one on the planet in fact. you should be proud to live in such a country, you should be proud of the many achievements your country has made, but you are not, you would rather have everybody believe that you live in a Nazi state and all your liberties have been removed.

People condemn or support on fact, not make believe, not wishful thinking and certainly not because you, rant and rave on an internet forum.

LC has hijacked this dreadful event and turned it into a circus, a money making circus. You should be ashamed of yourself; you should hang your head in shame at the total lack of faith you have in your fellow countrymen, for it is them you accuse, daily,of mass murder.

chipmunk stew

26th January 2007, 12:24 PM

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 12:28 PM

They're accusing the US government of being responsible for 9/11, and at the same time asking them (the US government) to redo an investigation on themselves, which will (in their mind) lead to their incrimination. Since the government won't do that, they accuse them of being behind 9/11.

Good point - and in regard to this "new investigation" why should the American tax payers foot the cost? Spend my tax dollars because some morons in the Internet have stupid questions that have been answered over and over again.

I was watching a show called "Best Evidence" about TWA Flight 800. In response to CTers who say a missle destoryed the plane the show bought a center fuel tank from identical plane. They hired experts to see if a spark could ignite the fumes in the fuel tank. Guess what? The tank exploded.

So why don't the 9/11 CTers raise money themselves buy an airplane, a large building and lots of thermite. There's their new invesigation. Too bad the CTers aren't willing to spend their own money, only other people's.

HeyLeroy

26th January 2007, 01:31 PM

Congratulations, 8den et al.

I'll admit that when I saw the original thread I didn't think you'd have much success.

Actually, it's kind of a shame. It would have been better had it been shown, bookened by MarkyX's video.

Oh, well, I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep tonight.

I would just like to pop in and congratulate the Nazi party on managing to silence their opposition!
Great job standing up for things you believe in (silencing those with differing opinions) and making a stand against that which you despise (the 1st Amendment of the Constitution).
Hitler would be soooooo proud of you all! I bet the Bush's are as well!
Congrats again!
Sincerely,
Your silenced opposition

Shining example of "intelligent" discussion on the JREF forums.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/6197458857f77964a.gif

Just. Too. Funny.

Howzabout answering what others in this thread have asked? Which material claims made in LC are actually true?

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 01:33 PM

Which material claims made in LC are actually true?

It was September. They got that right.

beachnut

26th January 2007, 01:59 PM

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

What do you do when you have idiots who believe thermate or other unnamed incendiary devices were used to destroy WTC 1,2, and 7?

The poor truth movement is without facts and evidence to support anything on 9/11. This is a great example of people not wanting to show lies without a warning.

You know a disclaimer. Like if you’re a real dumb person you may believe this pack of lies from the leader of the pack of master liars. We need to protect the terminally stupid; we try to educate but sometimes people fail to learn.

Do we need to warn the dumb people?

T.A.M.

26th January 2007, 02:06 PM

Save your self righteous outrage for the school play ground, boy. You have not got a clue what you are talking about.

You guys just get off on playing the poor victim, the poor oppressed freedom fighter who is standing up against the totalitarian state. Playing the poor underdog, who against all odds freed humanity from itself.

Please child, give it a rest, nobody is silencing you, nobody is oppressing you, and nobody is suppressing you. Nobody is victimising you, nobody is watching, you, nobody is stalking you, nobody is listening to you, nobody gives a **** about you and you BS movie. Other than you and like minded loonies, living in the same little paranoid world you live in.

Go back to the playground, grow up and start living in the real world.

Not the one that allows you on the net every night and from the safety of your mommy’s basement to accuse innocent people of mass murder and anybody who doesn't agree with you of being Nazis.

Child.

Now now, you'll upset him...

This whole forum is so full of doublethink it is very disturbing. Beyond Orwellian.....

You manage to supress millions of people from hearing information that you disagree with and call us Hilterites.

You believe the official story put out by the US government and you call yourself "skeptics".

I am sick of annoying, inappropriate use of the word "doublethink" that the brainless CTers spout around about people here are JREF. Not only do you not have a clue what it really means, but you then use it inappropriately to make yourself look intellectual.

As for supression of information, Noone here does any such thing. Find one, just ONE single istance where a JREF member INTENTIONALLY tried to have information supressed. Asking for a balanced broadcast on the facts and fiction wrt 9/11 is not supression moron.

Wow, I am simply stunned. The audacity of you people.

What is so audacious about the comments made here. They are perhaps a little over zealous in their cheers for the removal of the mockumentary from Irish TV, but if you ask any of them, I am sure they would have no problem with the program airing, provided a counterview program was also aired.

Shining example of "intelligent" discussion on the JREF forums.

You wouldnt know "intelligent" discussion if it hit you in your cerebrum you spirochete.

You people aren't really bright at all. You suppressed people from the opportunity of viewing this documentary for free on television. I didnt say I have been silenced on this fourm. You're all trolls right? None of you can actually have this poor of a grasp of reading comprehension. Not for how many seem unable to comprehend it.

Or is this the "spin zone" where the O'Reilly wannabe's of the world all gather to see how this can take statements and turn their meanings into something completely different?

You are so far of base and yet you fail to realize it...so who is stupid? Most people who post here IMO have far above average IQ, unlike the posts I read over at LCF which remind me of a highschool gossip session. Any time you wanna compare yourself to myself or anyone here intellectually, the door is open my friend.

Yes it is factual information, girl. It is truth and now someone here has had it removed from Irish television in order to supress information they don't want people to be exposed to.

If it was all lies then you guys would want people to see it so they can crosscheck the information themselves, girl. Once they try that, girl, then they would find out it's all BS, girl. Wouldn't they?

But the fact that you support this information being supressed means you don't believe your own BS, girl. It's soooo obvious. If you only knew how many "lurkers" were laughing at you and not with you.

Once again, the support is for the right decision made by the station programmer, who after analyzing what would be needed to FAIRLY place a counterview program on next to it, decided to pull the program, rather than just show one side of things. Is your skull so thick that after being told this 5-6 times you still dont get it.

Do you understand the definition of Nationalism? One's own government is superior and incapable of wrong doing while the rest of the world's are.

Care to share the source for your "brilliant" definition of Nationalism?

We live in a world where people believe only Democrats are crooked politicians, or only Republicans. Not both.

Yes they are all bad...all out to get you...all out for the money...the power...the NWO (cue evil laugh).

We live in a world where we know our government has repeatedly proven to have lied to us. They have carried out experiments on our soldiers. They have carried out experiments on our own citizens. They have lied about the existence of WMD's, Secret CIA prisons, Torture, Domestic Spying, etc. People have had to resign after scandal after scandal after scandal.

Beyond your lack of proof for the above allegations, if they were true, it would place the USA only on par with every other leading nation in the world...so dont claim the US to be unique in these areas, please.

The 9/11 Commission has stated they were set up to fail. They were underfunded, rushed, and stonewalled. They have admitted that there are 100 people within our own government they could have "hanged" for 9/11.

Yet the "skeptics" (i.e. the people who believe what the government says....see the doublethink on that?) still OPPOSE A NEW INDEPENDENT AND TRANSPARENT INVESTIGATION INTO THE EVENTS THAT HAVE LED US TO WAR WITHOUT END.

A skeptic is someone who requires evidence to prove something true. We are skeptics of the CTs, as no evidence has been provided for them. We would be skeptical of the official story, and in some ways we are, if they didnt have such overwhelming evidence in their favor...which they do.

America was attacked by 19 Saudi's who "hate our freedoms".

That is correct, but a lite version. It was 19 terrorists with sworn allegance to OBL, who committed the crimes on his behalf, as a way do hurt america, and to grant them an instant path to heaven through martyrdom.

The Bush Administration them made 300,000,000 Americans suspects the following day and have been attacking our freedoms ever since. Attacking countries based on lies. Planning to attack more based on fear.

BUSH et al were only in power for 9 months before 9/11. you wanna point fingers at a responsible admin, if there was one (which I dont think there was), Clintons group had more to do with the years leading up to the event than BUSh et al.

3,000 Americans were brutally murdered on 9/11 and there are still a lot of unanswered questions.

first part right, second part an overstatement.

Why not support a new investigation and put an end to all of this???????

If I though for a moment that any form of a truely independent investigation would shut you idiots up, I would be all for it, but the truth is, 10 investigations would do no good to shut you up, unless they were to find the USG guilty of 9/11, which will not happen.

What are the "skeptics" (I use that term very loosely when talking about people here) so afraid of?

Not you that is for sure.

The American people dumped more money into finding out the intimate details of a former President's sex life than finding out everything about 9/11. Nearly 20 times as much money.

Hey, how much do they pay the top sports stars, actors, etc...you gonna bitch about everything american my friend?

I don't understand how if you're side is right you can still oppose an investigation that would silence my side once and for all.

There is the key....it never would, so I dont support it.

Even before I became a member of this movement, back when I was a die hard Bush supporting registered Republican, I supported the family members who wanted a new investigation because they still had many unanswered questions.

I support the answering of any questions the family members have, that were question of their own thought processes, not doubts placed there with unfounded accustations, speculation and hearsay.

I still believe the United States Government should be held accountable to the people and if the people still have unanswered questions then they should be answered. I don't understand how anyone can claim to love America and everything it is about and disagree.

Here is a challenge: Post a list of the questions that you have that you want answered. I bet I can find an answer for them all from the official story. See you do not just want questions answered. You want certain answers for those questions, and only those answers will do.

Many people today confuse Nationalism with Patriotism. They couldn't possibly be more different from each other........

Please enlighten me master.

TAM;)

GlennB

26th January 2007, 02:14 PM

I would have nominated this post, except for the lazy US spelling of "spirochaete" ---
"spirochaete. n. spirally-moving, disease-producing organism".
Sounds about right :D

Now now, you'll upset him...

I am sick of annoying, inappropriate use of the word "doublethink" that the brainless CTers spout around about people here are JREF. Not only do you not have a clue what it really means, but you then use it inappropriately to make yourself look intellectual.

As for supression of information, Noone here does any such thing. Find one, just ONE single istance where a JREF member INTENTIONALLY tried to have information supressed. Asking for a balanced broadcast on the facts and fiction wrt 9/11 is not supression moron.

What is so audacious about the comments made here. They are perhaps a little over zealous in their cheers for the removal of the mockumentary from Irish TV, but if you ask any of them, I am sure they would have no problem with the program airing, provided a counterview program was also aired.

You wouldnt know "intelligent" discussion if it hit you in your cerebrum you spirochete.

You are so far of base and yet you fail to realize it...so who is stupid? Most people who post here IMO have far above average IQ, unlike the posts I read over at LCF which remind me of a highschool gossip session. Any time you wanna compare yourself to myself or anyone here intellectually, the door is open my friend.

Once again, the support is for the right decision made by the station programmer, who after analyzing what would be needed to FAIRLY place a counterview program on next to it, decided to pull the program, rather than just show one side of things. Is your skull so thick that after being told this 5-6 times you still dont get it.

Care to share the source for your "brilliant" definition of Nationalism?

Yes they are all bad...all out to get you...all out for the money...the power...the NWO (cue evil laugh).

Beyond your lack of proof for the above allegations, if they were true, it would place the USA only on par with every other leading nation in the world...so dont claim the US to be unique in these areas, please.

A skeptic is someone who requires evidence to prove something true. We are skeptics of the CTs, as no evidence has been provided for them. We would be skeptical of the official story, and in some ways we are, if they didnt have such overwhelming evidence in their favor...which they do.

That is correct, but a lite version. It was 19 terrorists with sworn allegance to OBL, who committed the crimes on his behalf, as a way do hurt america, and to grant them an instant path to heaven through martyrdom.

BUSH et al were only in power for 9 months before 9/11. you wanna point fingers at a responsible admin, if there was one (which I dont think there was), Clintons group had more to do with the years leading up to the event than BUSh et al.

first part right, second part an overstatement.

If I though for a moment that any form of a truely independent investigation would shut you idiots up, I would be all for it, but the truth is, 10 investigations would do no good to shut you up, unless they were to find the USG guilty of 9/11, which will not happen.

Not you that is for sure.

Hey, how much do they pay the top sports stars, actors, etc...you gonna bitch about everything american my friend?

There is the key....it never would, so I dont support it.

I support the answering of any questions the family members have, that were question of their own thought processes, not doubts placed there with unfounded accustations, speculation and hearsay.

Here is a challenge: Post a list of the questions that you have that you want answered. I bet I can find an answer for them all from the official story. See you do not just want questions answered. You want certain answers for those questions, and only those answers will do.

Please enlighten me master.

TAM;)

FramerDave

26th January 2007, 02:31 PM

DohP is upset. That's how I like to start my day.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&st=0#entry11525698

Wow, it's incredible the amount of invective and filthy language spewed by those people when they don't get their way. Dylan must be so proud to have them on his side.

TC329

26th January 2007, 02:33 PM

Really! Perhaps you'd like to take up the Mark Roberts Challenge?

Name one material claim that Loose Change gets right.

AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.

Now debunk the fdr data obtained from the NTSB through a FOIA.

T.A.M.

26th January 2007, 02:34 PM

GlennB:

Thanks for the nomination consideration (what a great rhyme).

WRT to PDoh:

SO is he a truther again, or just simply disgruntled with everyone?

TAM

R.Mackey

26th January 2007, 02:37 PM

AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.

Now debunk the fdr data obtained from the NTSB through a FOIA.
Sure.

That FDR data was taken off of an FDR found in airplane wreckage at the Pentagon.

We have looked at the data, it is consistent with the official story. Imprimus, I refer you to this excellent discussion (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1999949#post1999949) by poster Anti-sophist.

Back to you.

CHF

26th January 2007, 02:43 PM

Absolutely brilliant. The Irish simply needed it pointed out to them was LC is a load of utter crap.

Well done JREFers!

jhunter1163

26th January 2007, 02:46 PM

I would have nominated this post, except for the lazy US spelling of "spirochaete" ---
"spirochaete. n. spirally-moving, disease-producing organism".
Sounds about right :D

I, on the other hand, am in the US and harbor no such qualms.

TAM's post is duly nominated.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 02:46 PM

AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.
false

Now debunk the fdr data obtained from the NTSB through a FOIA.

Why would we need to debunk something that is true? Do you know what debunk means?

Kiwiwriter

26th January 2007, 02:50 PM

jhunter1163

26th January 2007, 02:58 PM

Off topic, but I thought Stateofgrace was a man. TC refers to SoG as "girl" several times, and I saw no corrections. Can I really be so dense? Don't answer that....

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 03:09 PM

AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.So all that wreckage was planted with the press breathing down the people's backs? And no one of the press thought "Well, those people are just dragging out wreckage. If I get it on tape, I'll be the next Edward R. Murrow."?

If LC got something right, that isn't it.

jon

26th January 2007, 03:11 PM

Gravy, looks like PDoh is paying you a compliment (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3028&st=240) (kind-of)

Yeah, Roberts is too dedicated and too good to just be a "concerned citizen"

He will come a cropper, time will tell.

He cant stop the pursuit of truth

Clearly, checking facts makes you a gubment agent. I guess that'd explain the normal level of 'truth' debate - I mean, you wouldn't want to be called an agent.

PDoh's got a new sig, as well (edited for a family board):

"C*ck just tastes so good I can't resist." - mrfreeze

Wow, schoolyard insults. Anyway, if PDoh believes 'mrfreeze' is an apologist for mass murder, why would 'mrfreeze' giving a few BJs make him a worse person...

CHF

26th January 2007, 03:13 PM

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:14 PM

BTW, I am not against a new investigation.

Do it already.

Thank you!

Open, Transparent, & Televised.

No "group" testimonials behind closed doors. No letting people get away with stuffing evidence from the National Archives down their pants, shredding it, & then saying "I don't know what it was".

Let the families form a committee and form the questions so that when it is all over everyone involved is satisified.

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:15 PM

Source?

Lee Hamilton (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPPIef68xJw), hear him say it yourself.

HyJinX

26th January 2007, 03:16 PM

Thank you!

Open, Transparent, & Televised.

No "group" testimonials behind closed doors. No letting people get away with stuffing evidence from the National Archives down their pants, shredding it, & then saying "I don't know what it was".

Let the families form a committee and form the questions so that when it is all over everyone involved is satisified.

TC, What are the outstanding questions that you and the truth movement feel haven't been answered? I hear "there are just so many questions outstanding"...but I never get a clear picture as to what those questions are. Can you elaborate for me?

Thanks
HyJinX

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:18 PM

It's really embarassing. The truthers can't get ANYTHING right.

Semantics....."predominantly" Saudi's.........

Then again we can break it down even further........

Like the ones who are still alive or why the passengers of UA93 all only mention 3 hijackers.......

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:21 PM

WHY ISN'T OUR PUBLIC TELEVISION STATION AIRING MORE DOCUMENTARIES ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST HOAX, THE MOON LANDING HOAX, THE AIDS HOAX, THE RACIAL EQUALITY HOAX, THE CHEMTRAILS IN THE AIR, THE TERRORISM HOAX, AND ALL THE OTHER THINGS I HAVE AN OPINION ABOUT!!! I DEMAND AN END TO THIS CENSORSHIP!!! I DEMAND EQUAL TIME FOR MY OPPOSING VIEWS!!!

Rediculous.

The original poster begged for equal time to the "official story" to contradict Loose Change.

I simply asked whether or not Television and Radio has given the official story more than it's fair share of airtime already.

No one pulls a show because we ask for equal representation. The people of Ireland have seen plenty of docs on 9/11 which portray the official story I am sure. How many have aired over there that offer a differing view?

CHF

26th January 2007, 03:22 PM

Why not support a new investigation and put an end to all of this???????

Who should conduct the new investigation?

Give me some names or STFU.

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:24 PM

Sure.

That FDR data was taken off of an FDR found in airplane wreckage at the Pentagon.

We have looked at the data, it is consistent with the official story. Imprimus, I refer you to this excellent discussion (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1999949#post1999949) by poster Anti-sophist.

Back to you.

How is it consistent?

It is a completely different flight path. It is way above all the lightposts it's alledged to have knocked over, it's on the North side of the Citgo station, it is 18 miles away 1 second before impact, and so on.

You have addressed all of these issues? I seriously doubt it.

I had a rightwing radio host (Jim Quinn, XM165, WPGB 104.7 Pittsburgh) look over the data and he told me it was faked and my sources were full of ***** because that plane at best was going to "overshoot" it's target. Jim Quinn has a couple thousand hours logged as a pilot.

Then I showed him the FOIA cover sheet from the NTSB and provided links for him to verify it and his next reply was :

Produce a passenger.

As if I know what happened to the people on that plane. That's one of the reasons I want a new investigation!!!!

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 03:26 PM

As if I know what happened to the people on that plane. That's one of the reasons I want a new investigation!!!!
They Died!

jon

26th January 2007, 03:27 PM

Rediculous.

The original poster begged for equal time to the "official story" to contradict Loose Change.

I simply asked whether or not Television and Radio has given the official story more than it's fair share of airtime already.

No one pulls a show because we ask for equal representation. The people of Ireland have seen plenty of docs on 9/11 which portray the official story I am sure. How many have aired over there that offer a differing view?

The irony is that the same argument's used by right wing christian fundamentalists, who argue that Intelligent Design should be given as much time as Darwinism. Do you agree with them, TC; and what about discussing theories of the 'holohoax' in history documentaries? Or how about David Icke's account of the important role of reptilian aliens in human history - is it unfair that that's not given a balanced airing as an account to the 'official' story where, for example, the British royal family are believed to be human :eek:

You need to show why Loose Change is any more worthy of being given time than these other types of BS - unless you believe that anyone, saying anything, however offensive or ridiculous, has a 'right' to be taken seriously by the 'mainstream' media.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 03:27 PM

Who should conduct the new investigation?

Give me some names or STFU.

I love how he states that the investigation should be "open" and not behind closed doors.

Um hello...all investigations are never open and are always behind closed doors. Do you know why? Because if an investigation is "open" , then evidence gets compromised and data gets lost.

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:29 PM

So all that wreckage was planted with the press breathing down the people's backs? And no one of the press thought "Well, those people are just dragging out wreckage. If I get it on tape, I'll be the next Edward R. Murrow."?

If LC got something right, that isn't it.

Those people weren't dragging out wreckage. AA77 did not hit the Pentagon. The fdr data has confirmed that.

That doesn't mean a hole just exploded out of nowhere through 3 rings of the newly reinforced Pentagon. Something obviously caused that damage. Perhaps if the NTSB were allowed to do a full reconstruct like they're supposed to have done we'd have a more definitive answer as to what did hit it.

There is nothing clearly identifiable as AA77 in any evidence from the Pentagon. Which makes sense because AA77 didn't hit it.

And when Merc's documentary comes out next month, NONE, I repeat, NONE OF YOU ARE GOING TO KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 03:29 PM

Semantics....."predominantly" Saudi's.........

Then again we can break it down even further........

Like the ones who are still alive

Got a source that says they're living, or does your source point out name confusion and you hope to imply that some of them still live?

or why the passengers of UA93 all only mention 3 hijackers.......

Aside from a few "stick-of-gum" planes, you won't be able to see the entire plane from a few seats.

apathoid

26th January 2007, 03:30 PM

Semantics....."predominantly" Saudi's.........

Then again we can break it down even further........

Like the ones who are still alive or why the passengers of UA93 all only mention 3 hijackers.......
The alive hijackers were debunked (http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,265160,00.html) over 3 years ago. Please get some new material...
You people aren't really bright at all.
You misused another apostrophe, Einstein. The Saudis don't own anything.
/LL

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:30 PM

They Died!

I agree.

But if AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon (as confirmed through it's fdr data) then how?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 03:32 PM

I agree.

But if AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon (as confirmed through it's fdr data) then how?

Ridiculous (notice the spelling).

Flight 77 hit the Pentagon, killing everyone on board.

Firestone

26th January 2007, 03:33 PM

Like the ones who are still alive or why the passengers of UA93 all only mention 3 hijackers.......So, the mean NWO-plotters first fabricated faked phone calls where only 3 hijackers are mentionned, and then fabricate a fake story with 4 hijackers in it. :jaw-dropp

And then you wonder that this nonsense doesn't get equal time with serious research?

johnny karate

26th January 2007, 03:33 PM

I'm not sure why Terror Cell and the other CTers are coming to the JREF Forum to complain.

They should be directing their complaints to RTE. Contact them and see what they tell you.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 03:34 PM

The fdr data has confirmed that.
false. the FDR confirms that AA77 hit the pentagon.

That doesn't mean a hole just exploded out of nowhere through 3 rings of the newly reinforced Pentagon.that's what happens when a 100 ton plane barrels into the side of a wall at 500 mph.

Something obviously caused that damage.AA 77 caused that damage.

Perhaps if the NTSB were allowed to do a full reconstruct like they're supposed to have done we'd have a more definitive answer as to what did hit it.how can you do a full reconstruction when the plane was nearly obliterated? YOU do know that the NTSB does not reconstruct every plane on every accident they investigate. Sometimes, those accidents leave no plane parts left to reconstruct.

There is nothing clearly identifiable as AA77 in any evidence from the Pentagon. Which makes sense because AA77 didn't hit it.
Oh really? despite the the many parts of the fuselage? the big pieces of the plane that had American Airlines logos on them? despite the parts found were serial stamped with American Airlines logos? despite the chairs that they did find that had the America Airlines material on them?

Wow, you are patently obtuse and blind.

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 03:35 PM

Those people weren't dragging out wreckage. AA77 did not hit the Pentagon. The fdr data has confirmed that.
No it has not. Yours and many other misinterpretations of the fdr data "confirms" it.

[snip]

There is nothing clearly identifiable as AA77 in any evidence from the Pentagon. [snip]

That statement says more about your inability to identify AA77 parts than any conspiracy. (http://911myths.com/html/757_wreckage.html)

apathoid

26th January 2007, 03:36 PM

And when Merc's documentary comes out next month, NONE, I repeat, NONE OF YOU ARE GOING TO KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

You must've missed this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=69943) 51 page(and counting) thread in which we had plenty to say about the upcoming "documentary".

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 03:38 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-11-sept11-remains_x.htm
By contrast, identification work at the Pentagon and in Shanksville, Pa., where two other passenger jets crashed on 9/11, has been complete since early 2002.

At the Pentagon, military medical examiners linked remains to 179 victims, including passengers aboard American Airlines Flight 77 and people working in the facility.

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:40 PM

false. the FDR confirms that AA77 hit the pentagon.

LOL!!!!!!!!

Bring your argument to the group of pilots who obtained the data and did all the work on it. I dare you!!!!!

TC329

26th January 2007, 03:41 PM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-09-11-sept11-remains_x.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8672066571196607580&q=pandora%27s+black+box&hl=en

Come back after you've actually watched it.

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 03:42 PM

I agree.

But if AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon (as confirmed through it's fdr data) then how?
So the government planted the FDR in the oentagon in order for it to disprove that the plane it came from hit the pentagon? Have you taken your anti-psych meds today?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 03:42 PM

How do you explain the remains of the passengers found in the Pentagon rubble?

Arus808

26th January 2007, 03:42 PM

why do the truthers persistently live in 2001? Its as if they haven't been able to get past December of that year; you know, when all of the facts and evidence were released AFTER that date?

CHF

26th January 2007, 03:43 PM

Still waiting for the names of who should conduct the new investigation.

Any ****** day, TC...

Calcas

26th January 2007, 03:44 PM

Wow, it's incredible the amount of invective and filthy language spewed by those people when they don't get their way. Dylan must be so proud to have them on his side.
Did you see the post where Pdoh complained about someone having a picture of him over here as their avatar with a big "L" on his forehead?

I would have never known.

However, if it really is his pic, and he objects, you probably should remove it.

Heck, Gravy and I even took down our jdx avatars...;)

Arus808

26th January 2007, 03:45 PM

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8672066571196607580&q=pandora%27s+black+box&hl=en

Come back after you've actually watched it.

Please provide a video by a credible person, like someone from the NTSB; you know someone qualified to make comments on what FDR data represents.

JohnDoeX isn't exactly the most credible person on this planet to do a debunking video (he's made it known that he isn't really for truth, and that his only concern is how much money he makes off of peddling his dvd's). He was a "pilot" and its been known that he's been out of "flying" for quite a long time. And since when did pilots have any education on reading the FDR? None of the pilots I know , know how to read the data, let alone be able to put the information to good use.

Besides, the FDR data has been discussed here before:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1999949#post1999949

Instead of repeating the same lies, use the search function.

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 03:46 PM

Please provide a video by a credible person, like someone from the NTSB; you know someone qualified to make comments on what FDR data represents.

Yeah, pilots don't usually read fdr's. It's usually someone else reading it after the pilot's fouled up.

CurtC

26th January 2007, 03:48 PM

That FDR data was taken off of an FDR found in airplane wreckage at the Pentagon.

We have looked at the data, it is consistent with the official story. Imprimus, I refer you to this excellent discussion (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1999949#post1999949) by poster Anti-sophist.Whatever happened with the Troother who was decoding the raw FDR data?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 03:52 PM

Terrorcell, how do you explain the remains of the passengers found in the Pentagon rubble?

Obviousman

26th January 2007, 03:54 PM

John DOH! already had two people qualified in FDR data analysis tell him why his assessment is flawed, but facts have never interested him a great deal.

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 04:00 PM

And when Merc's documentary comes out next month, NONE, I repeat, NONE OF YOU ARE GOING TO KNOW WHAT TO SAY.

Oh I know what I'm going to say, in fact I'll say it right now because who knows when/if that lame piece of libelous [rule 8] is ever going to appear on YouTube. A team of more that 100 forensic specialists and others identified 184 of 189 people who died in the Pentagon attack.

I hope Merc and Lyte get their a**es sued off by the people they have defrauded and misquoted. I hope they get every dime Merc and Lyte have.

Minadin

26th January 2007, 04:01 PM

I was watching a show called "Best Evidence" about TWA Flight 800. In response to CTers who say a missle destoryed the plane the show bought a center fuel tank from identical plane. They hired experts to see if a spark could ignite the fumes in the fuel tank. Guess what? The tank exploded.

Hey, I was just watching that last night. Very interesting show showing both sides on that investigation, too. I kept on thinking myself that the tank they set up wouldn't ignite, then it all blew up so violently once they reached a (very low) voltage for the spark that was enough to set it off at all.

WRT to PDoh:

SO is he a truther again, or just simply disgruntled with everyone?

According to his posts on the LC forum, Ive always been total truther. My change to skeptic was a ruse to test the jrefers arse licking abilities. Funny he was joining RoxDog in berating MR.Freeze for doing the same (opposite) thing. I'm glad that the mods and admins here weren't swayed by the pleas to un-ban him, here. This just goes to show that that sort of thing needs to be based on someone's actions and not their beliefs.

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 04:01 PM

Whatever happened with the Troother who was decoding the raw FDR data?

Please don't say "raw data". You know who's gonna show up.

aggle-rithm

26th January 2007, 04:06 PM

Yeah, pilots don't usually read fdr's. It's usually someone else reading it after the pilot's fouled up.

Besides the fact that "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" are only pretending to be pilots.

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:08 PM

26th January 2007, 04:09 PM

I cannot imagine myself trying to stop a broadcast or publication of something pro the official conspiracy theory. I would just feel too ashamed.

But. again we truthers don't have anything to loose getting information out there. Also, the dumbass official conspiracy theory. We don't mind.

You guys, don't seem to have any shame.:cool:

Better a lack of shame, than a lack of brain.

Rich M

26th January 2007, 04:10 PM

no, you'd just write incoherent blog posts condemning the sheeple who haven't seen the light of the tuh-ROOTH, wouldn't you?

tsig

26th January 2007, 04:11 PM

Arus808

26th January 2007, 04:13 PM

no, you'd just write incoherent blog posts condemning the sheeple who haven't seen the light of the tuh-ROOTH, wouldn't you?

^_^ aint that the troof.

and welcome Rich...:D

stateofgrace

26th January 2007, 04:13 PM

Off topic, but I thought Stateofgrace was a man. TC refers to SoG as "girl" several times, and I saw no corrections. Can I really be so dense? Don't answer that....

Last time I checked I was, Top Cat was calling me a girl becuse I don't beleive his BS theories, ones like this.

AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon.

Now debunk the fdr data obtained from the NTSB through a FOIA.

Hey Top Cat since you have such an angle on everything could you apply your enormous brain power to just summing up for me, what you think happened on 911?

Please include in your summary.

Flight 11.
Flight 175.
Flight 93
Flight 77.
The TwinTowers.
The Pentagon.
WTC 7.
Al Qaeda

I know you may be confused by this request and it may be very difficult for you to understand what a summary is so here I will show you.

On 11 Sept 2001 four planes were hijacked, two flew into the Towers; they were Flight 11 and Flight 175. The Towers were badly damaged, each had massive fires and latter collapsed. During the collapse other buildings were hit by falling debris. WTC 7 was one of them, it was damaged, burnt and fell down. Flight 77 was hijacked and flown at high speed into the Pentagon. Flight 93 crashed after the passengers fought back. This attack was carried out my members of an organisation called Al Qaeda and was authorised by a guy called Bin Laden.

Ok Top Cat over to you, please don't pick holes in my summary just offer up your own, as I have done.

Thank TC,

Ps If you want I will be your gal, cuddles and kisses your new gal XXXX.

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:15 PM

Better a lack of shame, than a lack of brain.

That's what supposed to be decided in the FREE MARKETPLACE of ideas and information.

apathoid

26th January 2007, 04:16 PM

Whatever happened with the Troother who was decoding the raw FDR data?

Snowygrouch? He's full of [rule8]. He's a Piwots4Twoof member and is listed as a "UK Researcher" on the members page. If I remember correctly, he tried to have us believe that a complete stranger, a "source", risked her job to get him the data frame "layouts" he needed...and that she said the matter needed further investigation. :rolleyes:

And when Anti-Sophist demanded that all of his data be released, or repackaged - for repeatability, he gave some excuse about not wanting to reveal his source and moseyed off..

boloboffin

26th January 2007, 04:17 PM

How do you do that, TC?

How do you believe that the government planted a FDR at their fake Flight 77 crash scene that proves beyond a doubt that Flight 77 DIDN'T hit the Pentagon?

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 04:17 PM

Besides the fact that "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" are only pretending to be pilots.

You mean Microsoft Flight Simulator doesn't count?

Dog Town

26th January 2007, 04:19 PM

How do you do that, TC?

It's called CT logic. Be happy, it makes no sense, to you.

Gravy

26th January 2007, 04:20 PM

Dog Town

26th January 2007, 04:22 PM

Funny, I just sent out a NWmemO about that today. The pursuit of truth will be stopped as of noon next Tuesday.

We still get our bonus though...right?

26th January 2007, 04:25 PM

That's what supposed to be decided in the FREE MARKETPLACE of ideas and information.

...??

Do you speak English, or are you running things through a translator?

Or, perhaps, demonstrating proudly your lack of brains?

As near as I can tell, you've done that several times already.

The free marketplace of ideas and information are still operating quite well. No one called for censorship of the video; the station merely realized that showing it without appropriate contextual material would be irresponsible (and, possibly, legally dangerous), and so decided against showing it. It would have been, IMHO, more acceptable if they had shown it along with Screw Loose Change or other similar reference material, or with qualified commentators interjecting at key points. The video is pure propaganda BS.

I find it hilarious that LC forumites constantly cry about censorship and such, yet ban people left and right for the most flimsy of excuses. I was banned long ago, and I don't even remember for what reason; I think I was asking someone to clarify a point. It might have been during the mass JREF bannings, when anyone who posted at JREF was banned without question.

Loosers are infamous for censorship. They are almost as infamous for censorship as they are for ignorance.

And you, pagan, are a disgrace to loosers, to pagans, and to most air-breathing mortal beings.

Alt+F4

26th January 2007, 04:26 PM

Last time I checked I was, Top Cat was calling me a girl becuse I don't beleive his BS theories

So I guess Top Cat's contention is that calling someone a girl is an insult. I guess he's of the age where he still thinks girls have cooties.

apathoid

26th January 2007, 04:28 PM

Besides the fact that "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" are only pretending to be pilots.

They do have one active airline pilot on their team(one out of around 100,000 worldwide.....) ...and he is a bible-beating, ultra rightwing, total *ing wackjob....

He is also the author of “Uncle Sam’s Christian Patriots, a Personal, Political and Religious Discussion of September the 11th, War and Peace, and Freedom and Oppression,” due to be officially released by Tate Publishing (www.tatepublishing.com ) April 18th 2006

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/archive.cgi?read=85422

MarkyX

26th January 2007, 04:29 PM

This whole forum is so full of doublethink it is very disturbing. Beyond Orwellian.....

You manage to supress millions of people from hearing information that you disagree with and call us Hilterites.

You believe the official story put out by the US government and you call yourself "skeptics".

So many things wrong with this argument. Since you enjoy putting Godwin's law in effect, wouldn't Hitler be forcing radio, theatres, and televisions to broadcast his message "or else" ? Because you guys are trying to force a privately owned corporation to do your bidding.

All we did is point out the numerous flaws within Loose Change, and they replied "Hell with that BS"

Let's not forgot the rampart banning from the Loose Change boards, aka silencing opposing views. And being a skeptic doesn't mean "disagreeing with the world around you". Stop pretending you are critical thinkers, otherwise you wouldn't believe this BS in the first place.

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:34 PM

...??

Do you speak English, or are you running things through a translator?

Or, perhaps, demonstrating proudly your lack of brains?

As near as I can tell, you've done that several times already.

The free marketplace of ideas and information are still operating quite well. No one called for censorship of the video; the station merely realized that showing it without appropriate contextual material would be irresponsible (and, possibly, legally dangerous), and so decided against showing it. It would have been, IMHO, more acceptable if they had shown it along with Screw Loose Change or other similar reference material, or with qualified commentators interjecting at key points. The video is pure propaganda BS.

I find it hilarious that LC forumites constantly cry about censorship and such, yet ban people left and right for the most flimsy of excuses. I was banned long ago, and I don't even remember for what reason; I think I was asking someone to clarify a point. It might have been during the mass JREF bannings, when anyone who posted at JREF was banned without question.

Loosers are infamous for censorship. They are almost as infamous for censorship as they are for ignorance.

And you, pagan, are a disgrace to loosers, to pagans, and to most air-breathing mortal beings.

Hehe, I seem to have touched a nerve there? You seem very upset.

And you also seem to have understood by post. No, language problem here.

But, please chill down a few degrades.:cool:

beachnut

26th January 2007, 04:40 PM

That's what supposed to be decided in the FREE MARKETPLACE of ideas and information.

Yes why delude yourself with facts? This is a CTer. He needs no facts just dumb ideas and they vote for the best dumb lie they can pull out of the air.

They, the CTers, are the deciders. They take opinions and vote which lie is the truth. You can see them pat themselves on the back as they spread lies and a few people fall for it.

Take your non Pulitzer Prize junk and write a fiction piece like LC did. You know some fools will actually buy this junk. Why are all the idiot cult memeber of the truth movement so upset?

26th January 2007, 04:44 PM

Hehe, I seem to have touched a nerve there? You seem very upset.

And you also seem to have understood by post. No, language problem here.

But, please chill down a few degrades.:cool:

Nah, I'm as cool as ice, babe.

If I understood your post, it was by accident. I just made a guess and went with it.

And it would be 'chill down a few degrees' or, perhaps, 'a few grades' - though the last is somewhat mixing metaphors.

Nevertheless, you've replied without useful content. I suppose that seals the fact that you lack the weapons to come into this forum waging a battle of wits...

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:50 PM

Yes why delude yourself with facts? This is a CTer. He needs no facts just dumb ideas and they vote for the best dumb lie they can pull out of the air.

They, the CTers, are the deciders. They take opinions and vote which lie is the truth. You can see them pat themselves on the back as they spread lies and a few people fall for it.

Take your non Pulitzer Prize junk and write a fiction piece like LC did. You know some fools will actually buy this junk. Why are all the idiot cult memeber of the truth movement so upset?

Hey.hey, slow down, cool it dude. I am a cool SOB.

Let's see here what we got in your post.

delude
CTer
dumb twice
lies twice
decider (hey, that's your hero Bush)
fool
junk twice
idiot.

I probably missed a few. This must be some record. It is a short post and you managed to get it all in.

That my dear is an accomplishment in any book.

But, still no shame.:cool:

pagan

26th January 2007, 04:52 PM

Nah, I'm as cool as ice, babe.

Good, you seem to have got the message.

8den

26th January 2007, 04:58 PM

Absolutely brilliant. The Irish simply needed it pointed out to them was LC is a load of utter crap.

Well done JREFers!

"God created the Irish so he could speak to an equal"

Hey it's a quote from an auld Mel, "Sugar Tits" Gibson Movie, but it works.

That's what supposed to be decided in the FREE MARKETPLACE of ideas and information.

Yeah. Loose change presented an argument, I thanks to the hard work of other people, was able to point out the flaws in the film, RTE realise that theres no working way to show the film, and present the flaws in the film and they "pull it"*. Free Market works.

* If RTE gets blown up in the next few days, that comment is going to look like, really really, suspicious.

As for the topic, if someone was to suggest that I have the choice that either loose change was broadcast without qualification, or not broadcast at all, I'd go with the former. But as stated I specifically stated in my original e-mail I had no wish to see the film removed from the schedule. RTE went with the latter. All I did was link to some articles pointing out the factual errors in loose change, and Rowe's and Dylan's admittance of these facts.

Goddamn I want to be able to post on loose change, and ask dylan some questions, there's a yeats quote about "fumbling in the greasy till" that sums up Dylan to a T

26th January 2007, 04:58 PM

Good, you seem to have got the message.

So, bringing this back on-topic: have you gotten the message that no one here censored, or caused to be censored, any video? Have you gotten the message that showing this video out of context might have led to legal problems for the station, and would be irresponsible?

Have you yet gotten the message that Loose Change is a simple propaganda piece, relying on the ignorance and laziness of its viewers to survive?

If you have, it's a good sign. If not... I guess you never will.

Arus808

26th January 2007, 05:08 PM

I still want to see where in all of this, how we censored anything; that is as if we can control what Irish TV decides to broadcast.

T.A.M.

26th January 2007, 05:13 PM

TC:

When Merc releases his documentary, I know exactly what to say, and that is...

"What a crock of shaite!"

Their documentary will prove NOTHING, will be watched by NOONE, and will go NOWHERE.

As for the FDR data,

Let us apply Occam...Of the following, which is the simplest explanation, requiring the least amount of assumptions or additional variables:

(1) Data was corrupted due to damage sustained by FDR on aircraft impact.
(2) Data, within the limits of possible error, could be misinterpreted in keeping with the finds of "Pilots for Truth"
(3) Data, planted by the evil PNAC Cabal to cover themselves, actually proves them guilty...drat, stupid, stupid PNAC.

My god man, are you THAT FU%KING STUPID? Really are your seriously that dumb? Are the rest of your fellow truthers really that moronic?

TAM:jaw-dropp

Anti-sophist

26th January 2007, 05:13 PM

I agree.

But if AA77 didn't hit the Pentagon (as confirmed through it's fdr data) then how?

The FDR data does not confirm this in any way shape or form and is, in fact, completely consistent with the official story. I'm sorry to break this news to you and I will be happy to take this particular to it's very own thread and thrash you about repeatedly on it.

Before you open your mouth too wide, realize I already have posts, pictures, graphs, and spreadsheets to debunk virtually everything that has ever been uttered by pilotsfor911truth.org, UnderTow, and JDX.

Unless you can bring something new to the table, I advise you use the search feature at the top before continuing this any farther.

Bring your argument to the group of pilots who obtained the data and did all the work on it. I dare you!!!!!

First of all there was not "group" of pilots. There was one. Second of all, pilots don't analyze FDR data. Engineers do. You happen to be talking to one. Third, and most importantly, I have already done this and debunked every single FDR myth there is.

As I said, feel free to take your claims and your evidence to its own thread and we can deal with this issue. If all you are going to do is parrot JDX and his hack organization, use the search feature at the top and you will find the answers you seek.

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 05:18 PM

Besides the fact that "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" are only pretending to be pilots.I thought their real name was PSYCHOTICS FOR 9/11 TRUTH :)

The Doc

26th January 2007, 05:42 PM

Lol is Pdhorety claiming to all his LC pal's that he tricked all of us by saying he wasn't a truther anymore? Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't we the ones who seriously doubted him and chose not to forgive him regardless of his opinion?

What makes me sick about this guy is the simple fact that he's turned the deaths of innocent people into "Me vs the JREF'ers". You need help Pdoh. And you need it fast.

Cl1mh4224rd

26th January 2007, 05:42 PM

Semantics....."predominantly" Saudi's.........
"19" vs. "15" is not semantics, you dolt...

Like the ones who are still alive or why the passengers of UA93 all only mention 3 hijackers.......
This has already been discussed. Your information is outdated, much like your way of thinking.

Brainache

26th January 2007, 08:15 PM

So when the free marketplace of ideas opens for business on Monday can I put in a bid for pi to be equal to three? I'm sick of all those pesky numbers after the decimal point.

I'd also like to submit that Relativity is too confusing so the famous equation should be ammended to read: E=MC Hammer.(You Can't Touch This).

Somehow I get the feeling that the marketplace of ideas may be resistant to my obviously sensible suggestions and that just proves that all you JREFers are Nazis.

boloboffin

26th January 2007, 08:22 PM

I'd also like to submit that Relativity is too confusing so the famous equation should be ammended to read: E=MC Hammer.(You Can't Touch This).

Actually, after reading a brutal flaying of a woo's posting, I think that should be MC TAMmer, as in: "TAMmer, please don't hurt them."

Loss Leader

26th January 2007, 10:31 PM

But. again we truthers don't have anything to loose getting information out there.

The word "But" is not a sentence. "Lose" has been misspelled.

Also, the dumbass official conspiracy theory.

This is a sentence fragment. It makes no sense.

You guys, don't seem to have any shame.

There should not be a comma in this sentence.

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:32 PM

So the government planted the FDR in the oentagon in order for it to disprove that the plane it came from hit the pentagon? Have you taken your anti-psych meds today?

The data is what it is. It shows what it shows. Instead of handing out insults try downloading the .csv file and see if you can figure it out yourself. Course I guess insults are alot easier...........

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 10:33 PM

The data is what it is. It shows what it shows. Instead of handing out insults try downloading the .csv file and see if you can figure it out yourself. Course I guess insults are alot easier...........

Why don't you try and answer the logical problem Enigma has confronted you with?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 10:35 PM

Or maybe you could answer Boloffin's logical dilemma?

How do you believe that the government planted a FDR at their fake Flight 77 crash scene that proves beyond a doubt that Flight 77 DIDN'T hit the Pentagon?

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:35 PM

How do you explain the remains of the passengers found in the Pentagon rubble?

There's no way of telling which is the horribly burned remains of a Pentagon employee and which are the horribly burned remains of a passenger. Does seem odd that a human body could withstand more than the plane could though, doesn't it? I mean the Shanksville plane also shattered into thousands of pieces and left no real visibly identifiable parts of an airplane other than 3 or 4 things. Same at the Pentagon. The difference being only 8% of UA93's remains could be recovered and 100% of AA77's.

That doesn't even strike you as slightly odd?

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 10:37 PM

There's no way of telling which is the horribly burned remains of a Pentagon employee and which are the horribly burned remains of a passenger

Have you ever done DNA analysis on human remains before?

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:38 PM

John DOH! already had two people qualified in FDR data analysis tell him why his assessment is flawed, but facts have never interested him a great deal.

But when the data he has presented, which you claim others have told him is flawed, is backed up by multiple highly credible witnesses (who's character you can't and probably won't dare to attack) what are you going to say?

kookbreaker

26th January 2007, 10:40 PM

There's no way of telling which is the horribly burned remains of a Pentagon employee and which are the horribly burned remains of a passenger.

That was an incredibly ignorant statement. I'm sorry, but are you aware of certain advances in forensic technology in the past few decades?

kookbreaker

26th January 2007, 10:47 PM

But when the data he has presented, which you claim others have told him is flawed, is backed up by multiple highly credible witnesses (who's character you can't and probably won't dare to attack) what are you going to say?

I for one do not know what I will say then, but right now I will say the following:

Stop overselling your game.

We've heard this 'whaddya gonna do when 'x' comes out' before. All I will say to that is:

"Hey Rocky! Watch me pull a rabbit out of this hat!"

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:48 PM

Or maybe you could answer Boloffin's logical dilemma?

I don't believe the government planted it there. I believe it's the data from AA77 which didn't crash and it was stopped at 1 second before the time it is alleged to have crashed.

TC329

26th January 2007, 10:51 PM

Have you ever done DNA analysis on human remains before?

You asked me to explain the remains of passengers from the Pentagon. I stated you cannot tell by looking at the pics who is a passenger and who is not. Therefor you cannot say beyond all shadow of a doubt that any of the passengers died in a violent airplane crash at the Pentagon.

They made the same claim that they identified 100% of UA93 at a special facility in VA. Yet on 9/11/6 I got a copy of the Tribune Democrat at the UA93 memorial and in it Wally Miller states he still retains the remains. 3 caskets full of unidentifiable remians. 3 caskets.....about 8% of the passengers.

Coritani

26th January 2007, 10:53 PM

I don't believe the government planted it there. I believe it's the data from AA77 which didn't crash and it was stopped at 1 second before the time it is alleged to have crashed.

So you believe that the plane flew over the pentagon, rather than crashing into it as dozens of witnesses reported?

uk_dave

26th January 2007, 10:53 PM

But when the data he has presented, which you claim others have told him is flawed, is backed up by multiple highly credible witnesses (who's character you can't and probably won't dare to attack) what are you going to say?

So you actually believe the fantasy which the elite pentagon research team claim they are going to present, despite the fact that all they have done so far is hype this fantasy on internet forum, have not provided any evidence and have been in dispute with one of the more level headed CTers (Russel Pickering) who is at least able to apply his critical thinking skills to their nonesense even if he trips over when it comes to some of his own speculations?

And you have totally ignored the suggestion made on this thread that you read through the excellent post made by anti-sophist and the subsequent 'debate' with undertow from 'pilots for truth'.... a debate, I might add, which ended with undertow disappearing back to pft after being demolished by anti-sophist.

You really do need to get up to speed on these things, because it is really embarassing to see you CTers still going on about FDR data which you don't understand, claims about hijackers still being alive which have been retracted and immature chemtrail fearing amatuer slueths who think five year old eyewitness testimony is going to counter all physical evidence.

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 10:54 PM

But when the data he has presented, which you claim others have told him is flawed,

No, the prevailing conclusion is that he interpreted the data wrong, not the data is wrong.

is backed up by multiple highly credible witnesses (who's character you can't and probably won't dare to attack) what are you going to say?

No, it's horse first, then the cart!

Don't call them beyond reproach before they've been critically examined.

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 10:54 PM

I don't believe the government planted it there. I believe it's the data from AA77 which didn't crash and it was stopped at 1 second before the time it is alleged to have crashed.

Whoa! :eek:

So what was it doing in the Pentagon rubble????

You asked me to explain the remains of passengers from the Pentagon. I stated you cannot tell by looking at the pics who is a passenger and who is not. Therefor you cannot say beyond all shadow of a doubt that any of the passengers died in a violent airplane crash at the Pentagon.

No, their DNA was analysed and matched with the passengers DNA. What more proof do you want?

kookbreaker

26th January 2007, 10:56 PM

You asked me to explain the remains of passengers from the Pentagon. I stated you cannot tell by looking at the pics who is a passenger and who is not.

But you can by DNA analysis and other ID methods. What is your problem here?

Therefor you cannot say beyond all shadow of a doubt that any of the passengers died in a violent airplane crash at the Pentagon.

Actually, yes you can. Unless you can explain why the bodies of many people who had no reason to be at the Pentagon were there after the crash.

They made the same claim that they identified 100% of UA93 at a special facility in VA. Yet on 9/11/6 I got a copy of the Tribune Democrat at the UA93 memorial and in it Wally Miller states he still retains the remains. 3 caskets full of unidentifiable remians. 3 caskets.....about 8% of the passengers.

This is where you are being just foolish. Unidentified remains mean body parts that could not be identified due to damge, or other reasons. It does not mean that the rest of the body was not identified. Furthermore, it also would include the 'unidentified' bodies which are assumed to be the hijackers.

DarkMagician

26th January 2007, 11:01 PM

You asked me to explain the remains of passengers from the Pentagon. I stated you cannot tell by looking at the pics who is a passenger and who is not. Therefor you cannot say beyond all shadow of a doubt that any of the passengers died in a violent airplane crash at the Pentagon.

They made the same claim that they identified 100% of UA93 at a special facility in VA. Yet on 9/11/6 I got a copy of the Tribune Democrat at the UA93 memorial and in it Wally Miller states he still retains the remains. 3 caskets full of unidentifiable remians. 3 caskets.....about 8% of the passengers.

Wow, what a way to give an answer that's only vaguely related to the question.

"Is the sky blue around noon?"
"Well, air is clear."
"..."

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 11:18 PM

The data is what it is. It shows what it shows. Instead of handing out insults try downloading the .csv file and see if you can figure it out yourself. Course I guess insults are alot easier...........I did download the CSV and you should have been able to comprehend what the NTSB said. The data is meant to be plotted and not to be used for forensic analysis. And you wonder why we call you woowoos...

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 11:19 PM

Why don't you try and answer the logical problem Enigma has confronted you with?
Logic puts woowoos in an infinite loop :)

The Silver Shadow

26th January 2007, 11:20 PM

To the CTer's:
Carl Sagan once said this:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidenceYou're making an extraordinary claim that 9/11 was an inside job. Where's the extraordinary evidence to prove that? You're simply speculating

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 11:29 PM

There's no way of telling which is the horribly burned remains of a Pentagon employee and which are the horribly burned remains of a passenger. Does seem odd that a human body could withstand more than the plane could though, doesn't it? I mean the Shanksville plane also shattered into thousands of pieces and left no real visibly identifiable parts of an airplane other than 3 or 4 things. Same at the Pentagon. The difference being only 8% of UA93's remains could be recovered and 100% of AA77's.

That doesn't even strike you as slightly odd?How large of a sample do you think (wrong word for you) is needed for DNA analysis? Did you ever see any of the evidence at the trial of Zacarias Moussai? In particular this...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_879045a299cd53d93.jpg

~enigma~

26th January 2007, 11:32 PM

'whaddya gonna do when 'x' comes out' before.
Yeah...what are you gonna do when...you guys know the rest :)

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/1503/originalnwo5dk6gl.jpg

Pardalis

26th January 2007, 11:44 PM

Logic puts woowoos in an infinite loop :)

Notice how he still evaded the question? :rolleyes:

So again Terrocell, why would the conspirators create false evidence that goes against their masterplan?

Understand the question now?

~enigma~

27th January 2007, 12:01 AM

Notice how he still evaded the question? :rolleyes:

So again Terrocell, why would the conspirators create false evidence that goes against their masterplan?

Understand the question now?Frankly I don't expect him to answer my question. For that matter i don't believe ANYONE on the LCF would have the cahones to answer my question honestly.

Cl1mh4224rd

27th January 2007, 01:26 AM

Frankly I don't expect him to answer my question. For that matter i don't believe ANYONE on the LCF would have the cahones to answer my question honestly.
It's odd... They get all worked up over perceived inconsistencies and anomalies in the official account, but aren't at all concerned with reconciling the universe-destroying paradoxes in even the simplest of their own claims...

beachnut

27th January 2007, 01:39 AM

LOL!!!!!!!!

Bring your argument to the group of pilots who obtained the data and did all the work on it. I dare you!!!!!

Who? Name one pilot who obtained the data doltish CTer.

If you mention the JDX fool you are out to lunch. Where are your brains kept? They excaped a while back.

Sorry but you are so short of facts and just full of junk.

beachnut

27th January 2007, 01:45 AM

How is it consistent?

It is a completely different flight path. It is way above all the lightposts it's alledged to have knocked over, it's on the North side of the Citgo station, it is 18 miles away 1 second before impact, and so on.

You have addressed all of these issues? I seriously doubt it.

I had a rightwing radio host (Jim Quinn, XM165, WPGB 104.7 Pittsburgh) look over the data and he told me it was faked and my sources were full of ***** because that plane at best was going to "overshoot" it's target. Jim Quinn has a couple thousand hours logged as a pilot.

Then I showed him the FOIA cover sheet from the NTSB and provided links for him to verify it and his next reply was :

Produce a passenger.

As if I know what happened to the people on that plane. That's one of the reasons I want a new investigation!!!!

If you did not look at the data then your source is tell you lies. You need to learn how to read the data and then tell me how many seconds were not recorded on the chip due to the crash. Can you tell me how a FDR works?

Can your expert pilot tell you? Maybe when you get 27 experts to say you are correct then you can talk again about the FDR. But there are several experts right here who say your experts are biased liars.

Sorry but you must have some problem understanding research. You believe some guy you never met? You believe lies? Why are you so easy to fool?

Look up how a FDR in a 757 stores data. Then you can start again. Do not be an idiot; try thinking for yourself.

Firestone

27th January 2007, 05:03 AM

jsiv

27th January 2007, 07:11 AM

Besides the fact that "Pilots for 9/11 Truth" are only pretending to be pilots.I thought their real name was PSYCHOTICS FOR 9/11 TRUTH :)

http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=603

Pilots?, All of us, you bet.

Don't be fooled by the name of the forum - we are all pilots for truth. To pilot means to GUIDE, the use of the word is not restricted to airplanes. And that's what we are all doing here, anyway, to guide, to pilot, people to the truth about 9/11 - and you all know that it's not like the JFK assassination, a hobby, trying to decifer what happened some 40 years ago. It is happening NOW. 9/11 was the jump-start of what can only be considered, completion of a plan to enslave the human race, the enslavement of the planet's population's minds and souls and bodies and the fruits of their labor. War and killing is in the cards. That's why 9/11 was necessary - to forment enough hate in America to allow what is happening now, and what will soon happen (tomorrow, I hear), to take place.

There will be millions killed before this is all over. (Probably half a million dead as I write this already.)

8den

27th January 2007, 04:09 PM

It takes 9 frigging pages before a woowoo (We'll assume) before someone figures out to try and register a complaint with RTE, apparently according to Pdoh

I dont think it will do that atall. I think when they see threads in which you lot crow and boast about it will show them what a mistake they poi have made.

Bless our apparent pleasure at seeing a contemptable excuse of a documentary not being shown will inspire RTE to change their mind.

I want to say, I'm not opposed to RTE screening the film, I'm opposed to them screening unqualified. It needs context. I mean after all both Rowe and Avery admit the film is factually inaccurate, and they've not tried to get copyright of the film. I pointed out to RTE the problems with the film, and they choose to pull it from their schedule, based on that information.

Hey P'Doh, if you're planning on linking to this thread, RTE will also get to read your comments on the thread on the loose change forum, where you admit to mispresenting your position.

See the grown ups are talking now, your childish arguments don't work. Loose change would expose RTE to libel and Copyright violations. Do you really think a third party should be exposed to this nonsense?

Course you do.

Kage

27th January 2007, 05:15 PM

You manage to supress millions of people from hearing information that you disagree with and call us Hilterites.

Yes! We did. Nobody will ever be able to watch said movie ever, or at least not untill this internet thing catches on.

jon

27th January 2007, 05:20 PM

Yes! We did. Nobody will ever be able to watch said movie ever, or at least not untill this internet thing catches on.

Shhh! If I can convince my NWO bosses here in the UK that we really did suppress LC, I'm up for a bonus. As long as they don't use google, or use the internet, or read newspapers, I think I might have pulled it off :D

Kage

27th January 2007, 05:41 PM

You were a total waste of an egg and semen.

Sometimes I think to myself, "Millions competed and that won?"

CptColumbo

27th January 2007, 06:30 PM

8den,
Well done. I'm not that familiar with the standard and practices of Irish television, but if this is an example of their practices, with the exception of the fact that they originally bought the show without learning more about it beforehand, I think US networks could learn something from this example. History channel used to have the occasional roundtable following a show, to discuss the accuracy of a movie or what was missed and not fleshed out enough. Unfortunately, it's been awhile since I saw a panel discussion after a show.

I seem to remember the LCF crowing about shutting down the United 93 forum, by flooding it with harrassing posts in the name of "truth."

CptColumbo

28th January 2007, 10:40 AM

LashL

28th January 2007, 01:46 PM

<snip>I seem to remember the LCF crowing about shutting down the United 93 forum, by flooding it with harrassing posts in the name of "truth."

I seem to recall something like that, too.

And, in contrast to the conspiracy fantasists' tactics, this was not an exercise in trying to get RTE to pull the video but rather to look at the facts, realize how much of Loose Change is factually incorrect, and air it in context by perhaps referencing some of the factual information available that shows Loose Change to be wrong in its assertions and insinuations.

RTE subsequently determined that there is so much wrong with Loose Change that it would take so much additional air time to put it into context, that it wasn't worth it, particularly in light of the very small audience RTE expected it to garner.

Good on RTE.

Stellafane

28th January 2007, 03:38 PM

I don't believe the government planted it there. I believe it's the data from AA77 which didn't crash and it was stopped at 1 second before the time it is alleged to have crashed.

TC...dude...you're like, what, 15 years old, tops? Do your parents know what you're doing all this time you're spending in front of the PC? Or do they figure, what the heck, at least it’s probably less harmful than cruising some of those other sites out there?

And if you're older than 15, you might want to consider getting a life. Seriously.

Oh and by the way, I'm not a girl, but I stopped taking offense at being called one somewhere around the 8th grade. So you'll have to dig a little deeper into your repartee repertoire if you're contemplating a witty comeback.

8den

28th January 2007, 04:15 PM

BTW: I was writing about the network considering presenting the video in context. I am in full agreement with the spirit of the OP that we're not asking them to not run the film, but rather to present it in context.

I would encourage any other posters in Ireland to e-mail or mail their thoughts about this to RTE, because I'm sure their going to be e-mailed by people who don't even live in Ireland.

I doubt it will work Morgan Stack head of the 911 troofer movement in ireland if you scroll to the botton of 911truth.ie you'll see an article from the Irish Examiner were Morgan was escorted from RTE headquarters by security, and afte spending a while at the entrance handing out dvds he was sent away by the Garda.

8den

28th January 2007, 04:36 PM

8den,
Well done.

Not to sound self affacing but I did nothing. I dug around the RTE site, found a couple of e-mail addresses, and made a phone call, and just C&P'd alot of fact and posts from other users here. I linked to pdfs and videos other forum members posted.

This is a success for the forum and all of you. I did feck all. I just rode on the shoulders of the work of the rest of this community.

I Am He

31st January 2007, 03:52 AM

TC329

I lurk here all the time and I'm sure laughing. I'm laughing right at you for all your juvenile replies. Did you know little boy that Hitler died many years ago and you're spouting how proud he would be. That sure makes sense, don't it?? It make about much sense as you babbling about censorship I see you're playing stupid again, looks like you're winning