Thanks to all in this forum

[wizzertz]

First of all hello. I'm new to this forum and have been lurking in the Conspiracy forum at every free moment asorbing as much info as possible.

I have not only assimilated vast quantities of information, but also a more effective way to extract and understand it. I particlularly enjoy Architect's postings (I want to major in mechanical or structural engineering).

I wanted to throw out another positive note to validate the existence of this forum and the people it belongs to.

About three and a half years ago, my friend and I starting doing "our own research" and "asking our own questions", and "deciding for ourselves". On my own, I came up with the conclusion that maybe the WTC could have been staged. I began looking for evidence to support my theory. After a couple weeks I started to doubt this, but kept it in the back of my mind. Meanwhile my friend is continues to this day, tredding down the rabbit hole. What started as a mere curiosity has almost become an obsession.


Fast forward to the present. Last week I was given a copy of Loose Change. For a second while watching the video, I was almost convinced about the collapse, and it almost re-kindled the CT investigation urge. The following day, I went to the LC forum to browse and see what people had to say. I was surprised at what I saw. It beared the same resemblance to a religion, or fanatical belief. That's when my mere curiosity turned into huge doubt. This is where I first learned what a JREF'er was.

That's when I decided to see what everyone here had to say. I can confidently say that I was completely wrong on everything I thought about 9/11 pertaining to a government cover-up.

1. I found out that doing your own research can be harmful if youdon't know exactly what to look for and how to look for it.

2. Surrounding yourself with people who never disagree with you will most likely foster further false beliefs. This happened to the circle of friends I was in three years ago. I have now since been alienated from the groups because I started questioning them with contradicting facts.

3. Just because you hold a scholarly position does not mean everything you say is true or has merit.

4. My worldview now has to constantly adapt. My walls came crashing down in the last years (in regards to everything I was taught about religion, society, conspiracies). It wasn't easy, but now I feel that I am way better off as a person.

The last two days reading all the information here was worth almost a lifetime, and I'm glad there is a place for which to discuss this knowledge with other like minded people. Thanks



-Wizz

[boloboffin]

Welcome, wizzertz. I can guaran-[rule8]-tee you that if anyone here disagrees with you, they will let you know about it. It's not always fun keeping yourself open to a constant adaptation of your worldview, but it's the only honest way to approach things. Glad you're aboard.

[Z]

Do posts like this give anyone else warm fuzzies?

Welcome, and thank you, wizzertz.

I originally came here with questions about homeopathy, and was absolutely shocked and offended at what I learned. Since then, I've learned bucketloads on topics too diverse to go into here. I've learned more about critical thinking, logic, and reason than I ever thought I could learn. And I've learned to deal with my own belief system without going into a total collapse.

I still have a long way to go, but I'll be here as long as possible, continuing to learn.

[T.A.M.]

Welcome to the Forum Wizz.


I have not only assimilated vast quantities of information, but also a more effective way to extract and understand it. I particlularly enjoy Architect's postings (I want to major in mechanical or structural engineering).


Glad to hear it. With only a week under your belt, you have likely only touched the surface of the information available here...read on.


I wanted to throw out another positive note to validate the existence of this forum and the people it belongs to.

About three and a half years ago, my friend and I starting doing "our own research" and "asking our own questions", and "deciding for ourselves". On my own, I came up with the conclusion that maybe the WTC could have been staged. I began looking for evidence to support my theory. After a couple weeks I started to doubt this, but kept it in the back of my mind. Meanwhile my friend is continues to this day, tredding down the rabbit hole. What started as a mere curiosity has almost become an obsession.


Fast forward to the present. Last week I was given a copy of Loose Change. For a second while watching the video, I was almost convinced about the collapse, and it almost re-kindled the CT investigation urge. The following day, I went to the LC forum to browse and see what people had to say. I was surprised at what I saw. It beared the same resemblance to a religion, or fanatical belief. That's when my mere curiosity turned into huge doubt. This is where I first learned what a JREF'er was.

That's when I decided to see what everyone here had to say. I can confidently say that I was completely wrong on everything I thought about 9/11 pertaining to a government cover-up.


Doing ones own research is a good thing. Even if you do not know where to go, you have to start somewhere. The key is to keep the paranoia out of your research and decision making, and use logic instead.


1. I found out that doing your own research can be harmful if youdon't know exactly what to look for and how to look for it.


See above. Like I said, I don't think doing your own research is ever "harmful" but it can be misleading if the researcher is unable to keep the human inclination toward paranoia at bay.


2. Surrounding yourself with people who never disagree with you will most likely foster further false beliefs. This happened to the circle of friends I was in three years ago. I have now since been alienated from the groups because I started questioning them with contradicting facts.

Well if that were the case, than all of us here at JREf might be guilty of the same. I think you can surround yourself with like minded people, and avoid fostering false beliefs, provided you use rationality and logic...common sense, instead of emotion and paranoia.


3. Just because you hold a scholarly position does not mean everything you say is true or has merit.

Amen. However, given a choice between an experts opinion, and a laymen's, I will choose the experts 99% of the time.


4. My worldview now has to constantly adapt. My walls came crashing down in the last years (in regards to everything I was taught about religion, society, conspiracies). It wasn't easy, but now I feel that I am way better off as a person.

Glad to hear it.


The last two days reading all the information here was worth almost a lifetime, and I'm glad there is a place for which to discuss this knowledge with other like minded people. Thanks

only two days...man, you have alot of material still at your disposal. I am sure others can point you in a more focused direction...

Welcome.

TAM:)

[Dog Town]

Welcome, and remember..."Nobody beats the Wizz"!






ETA: Welcome.

[Arus808]

welcome (aloha) Wizzertz / like you, I was once a "troofer", and did my own research...and found that loose change (which was what I saw) was just a bunch of bull..

JREF provided a great opportunity for me to learn from those who have done a great job of battling the ignorance, and blind faith in their "religion".

welcome, and hope you stay!

[Anti-sophist]

Earlier today I spent a fair amount of time trying to track down some specific technical information about flight 77 and aircraft in general to help debunking a particular issue. I spent a whole bunch of time using google and doing like -invisionfree and -911blog to clear out all the gibberish from the CT sites.

After like 10 minutes of slowly narrowing my search the answer I needed finally bubbled up. It was in a thread in this forum. Ha ha.

[Quad4_72]

Wiz I believe you are the perfect example of why people get attracted to conspiracy theories. It seems so exciting, you are sitting there uncovering this huge mystery and you feel like you are part of something. You think you are exposing the truth, and the more "truth" you think you have exposed, the more dilluted your thought process becomes.

All critical thinking skills are thrown out the window and you develop a bias. You only accept what fits your beliefs and you will no longer pay attention to rational thought. You don't think about the implications of what you are suggesting and the ridiculousness of the things you believe. Do you really think that you can expose the largest, most intricate, most deadly conspiracy in the history of planet earth by simply using Google.com?

Anyways, welcome back to the real world. As fun as fantasy land can be, it will get you no where in life. Good post by the way.

[Dog Town]

I love how, so many of us found JREF, because of LC ! Not the other way around, which is of course, what they think. They got it backwards again...big surprise!

[T.A.M.]

DT:

You are so right. I actually owe all my knowledge on 9/11, all my tonacity toward the LCers and truth movement, all the debunker in me, on this issue, to the movie "Loose Change". Hey, maybe the best thing that could happen to stomp out the Twoof movement would be the release of their stupid movie in theatres.

TAM

[Quad4_72]

DT:

You are so right. I actually owe all my knowledge on 9/11, all my tonacity toward the LCers and truth movement, all the debunker in me, on this issue, to the movie "Loose Change". Hey, maybe the best thing that could happen to stomp out the Twoof movement would be the release of their stupid movie in theatres.

TAM

That is a good question TAM. Would the public be smart enough to realize that Loose Change is nothing but gutter trash? I bet they would. I mean all of Michael Moore's terrible films filled with deceits did not do too much damage.

[T.A.M.]

I think the benifit of wide release of LC:FC is two fold...

(1) The general public will get to see the shaite for what it is.
(2) The sleeping giant known as LEGITIMATE ACADEMIA will be forced to wake up, address the stupidity, and put it to rest once and for all.

TAM

[Brainster]

Great post, Wizzert. Research is always a good thing, just remember to research both sides of a question, and always ask yourself what is the agenda/bias/motive of the person giving you answers.

[jhunter1163]

Welcome to the forum, Wizz.

The JREF has a wide variety of experts in many, many different disciplines, and if you somehow do manage to stump them (I don't include myself in the "expert" category) they'll point you in the right direction to find things out for yourself.

There's a reason LCers fear JREF like vampires fear the dawn: we argue from hard, cold facts, not grainy video or mined quotes or "isn't THAT suspicious?" or logical fallacies. We welcome all opinions, but if they're not supported by facts, you're going to have a tough time of it here. I'm glad you're smelling the coffee of rationalism and sorry your friend isn't. Keep browsing here, though; there may be hope for him yet.

I'd say I'm at least 10 IQ points smarter for being a JREFer, and I'm probably not the only one who feels that way.

[A W Smith]

I too found this forum a couple of months ago after finding the fantasy Loose Change. From there i found "In their own words" and a podcast with Dylan making fun of the cell phone calls from the flight93 victims. At that I became so enraged I actually missed days at work researching (self employed) and found a home here. So welcome aboard!

[wizzertz]

Guess all of it boils down to is common sense.

You think you are exposing the truth, and the more "truth" you think you have exposed, the more dilluted your thought process becomes.


I think this is what is happening to my friend. I worry sometimes because he's growing extrenely isolated and more convicted in this. I should have tried to stop him earlier, but now he's so attached and consumed. It's going to be difficult to say the least.

With only a week under your belt, you have likely only touched the surface of the information available here...

I'd say. There's always something to pick up on in here.


Anyways, don't know how much I can contribute to this specific area, especially since all of you have already covered 99% of the points. But I'll do what I can. Mainly just observe.

My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot. Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.

[ConspiRaider]

Anyways, don't know how much I can contribute to this specific area, especially since all of you have already covered 99% of the points. But I'll do what I can. Mainly just observe.

My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot. Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.
You've already contributed, and thank you.

Your deftness at fashioning the Perfect Cheese Sandwich - we'll need that. All JREFers are now saving up for our annual Picnic Lunch On A Rogue Asteroid trip, and you have just been "volunteered" to oversee the assembly of zero-gravity box lunches.

Everybody has their own little gifts that they bring to the table...

[uk_dave]

Welcome Wizzertz and congratulations on a great initial post .......

....though be careful with that 'common sense' ok? :D

[~enigma~]

Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.
As long as your not Diana Duyser with her infamous Grilled Cheese Madonna...

[apathoid]

My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot.

Hey, that makes you more qualified to talk about flying than most "pilots" for twoof members. It's true.

PS :welcome4

[~enigma~]

Hey, that makes you more qualified to talk about flying than most "pilots" for twoof members. It's true.

PS :welcome4
Use the proper name...

PSYCHOTICS for truth

[MG1962]

My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot. Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.

LOL - Well my credentials were basically the company I worked for uses a similar external facade system to the one in the towers. People started telling me why they fell down, and I thought, I doubt it, ever second project I have been involved in would be a pile of rubble by now.

One of my favoirte things about this forum. Ya always find someone who knows more than you about something. Half my posts here have been questions. And every one has been answered politely, and even with some genuine humour :)

[-=Vagrant=-]

This forum has been a great help. I'm now one of three Finnish skeptics and science-fans who are keeping a blog, where we deal with CTs.

It started only a few months a ago, but we're starting to get more active.

http://911vastauksia.blogspot.com/

[jon]

I think the benifit of wide release of LC:FC is two fold...


(2) The sleeping giant known as LEGITIMATE ACADEMIA will be forced to wake up, address the stupidity, and put it to rest once and for all.


They've already prompted Chomsky into criticising the truthers (though maybe Jones takes credit for that?)

[SimonD]

Nice post Wizzertz

Gravy and Oliver have also taught me a thing or two about the whole 9/11-Iraq thing. Since coming here I have had to rethink a lot of what I used to believe. Most people have been fairly open-minded about some of my comments :relieved: I am still trying to process it all !

Keep up the good posting

[Skibum]

Excellent, Its nice to see proof that our mind control beam is working.

[Quad4_72]

Guess all of it boils down to is common sense.


Like it was said earlier, be VERY careful with that common sense there. CFs like to think that they are using common sense, so just make sure that common sense is based on facts and not bias.



I think this is what is happening to my friend. I worry sometimes because he's growing extrenely isolated and more convicted in this. I should have tried to stop him earlier, but now he's so attached and consumed. It's going to be difficult to say the least.

Don't give up. If everyone on this forum gave up just because the CFs are difficult to deal with, they would be running rampant with lies.





My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot. Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.

With those credentials, you could head up the truth movement if you pleased:p But you are obviously much smarter than that and I believe you are still young no? I think that is what you suggested, but if you are you still have PLENTY of time to develop credentials while CFs waste away living in fantasy land.

[chipmunk stew]

Welcome, wizzertz! :w2:

Your experience is not unlike that of a lot of people who post here (although the topic of their disillusionment was not necessarily vast government conspiracies). It's not a fun thing to go through. I applaud you for valuing your personal integrity and honesty with yourself over the temptation to cling to your beliefs.

I was depressed for a while after finding that I had to break down my beliefs to first principles and essentially build them back up from scratch. But having kept at it for the past seven years or so, I'm so much more at peace with myself than I've ever been.

There's no fundamental conflict anymore between what I observe and what I believe. Sometimes there's tension, where what I observe doesn't fit neatly with what I believe, and I have to make an adjustment to my beliefs--or backburner the anomaly until I can get more information.

Life is so much richer and smoother this way!




P.S. Check your bank balance. Welcome to the easy life! *wink*

[Brainster]

My only credentials are that I play on FlightSim a lot. Oh and I can make an extremely savoury cheese sandwhich.

Well, we haven't had anybody try to model the buildings out of savoury cheese sandwiches. Yet.:D

[Arus808]

maybe we can get the Tokyo Reconstruction team to help out.

[wizzertz]

A Cheeese Tower scale test? My conclusion is that the results would be delicious.

[~enigma~]

Now I gotta go make a cheese sandwich....you bastards :D

[The Silver Shadow]

I'll go and get a pizza with extra cheese! I'll call it the Cheesy tower!

[PerryLogan]

Forum Police. You have wandered off topic. You must take this discussion to the Cheese Forum.

[ConspiRaider]

A Cheeese Tower scale test? My conclusion is that the results would be delicious.
Doh!

We all know that cheese won't melt at 1200 degrees Fahrenheit! There goes your test, Big Boy!