kangaroos survived the flood how?

[arthurchappell]

My question to the Creationists - How did Kangaroos survive the flood? As Australia wasn't discovered until the 18th century - then Noah did well to either get them on the ark, or for the marsupials to get from Mount Ararat to Oz after the ark landed and everything went off to multiply. It's along way to hop, ie over the oceans.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Kangaroos? They were carried by both an African and European swallow.

Try fish instead... that's much more difficult.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Try fish instead... that's much more difficult.


In fact, I take that back... try Beetles instead....

About 350,000 known species today with estimates of millions of species as yet to be discovered.

[HerNibs]

My question to the Creationists - How did Kangaroos survive the flood? As Australia wasn't discovered until the 18th century - then Noah did well to either get them on the ark, or for the marsupials to get from Mount Ararat to Oz after the ark landed and everything went off to multiply. It's along way to hop, ie over the oceans.

Been there, tried this one.

Answer was the breaking up of the continents. Peleg - Gen 10:25 (I think)

Also have been told that Satan did it and something about criminals, desolation, etc.

Final answer - goddidit

Nothing really reasonable.

Got ugly after that.

HerNibs

[blutoski]

As Australia wasn't discovered until the 18th century

That would be surprising news to the Aborigines...





Creationists explain kangaroos the same way they explain other animals: postdiluvian migration, possibly assisted by human migration.

What is more difficult to explain is why all the mammals on the continent are marsupial or egg-layers, but nowhere else.

[Darth Rotor]

What is more difficult to explain is why all the mammals on the continent are marsupial or egg-layers, but nowhere else.
Something in the water, perhaps, or too much Fosters. ;)

How did Kangaroos survive the flood?

I am guessing they had life preservers in their pockets. :D

DR

[RUnuts]

Most important where did all the water go?

[Darth Rotor]

Most important where did all the water go?
Down the drain? Into Antarctic Ice Sheets?

DR

[slingblade]

God was thirsty?

[Gord_in_Toronto]

My question to the Creationists - How did Kangaroos survive the flood? As Australia wasn't discovered until the 18th century - then Noah did well to either get them on the ark, or for the marsupials to get from Mount Ararat to Oz after the ark landed and everything went off to multiply. It's along way to hop, ie over the oceans.

Err. Umm. It's because . . . oh, I know. Gravity was much less then and they could take really loooong hops. Also, explains how Adam was 112ft tall and did not fall over. ;)

Any more? :boggled:

[arthurchappell]

Yes, the Aborigines certainly found Australia, though they are not likely to be the lost tribe of Isreal or stowaways on the ark - possibly they evolved from South Pacific islanders who sailed there - also wonder why of everyone on Earth as the waters rose Noah alone, allowing for family, had the sense to get on a boat. Surely anyone near a port would have had access to ships and boats - there's no mention in Genesis of God sinking other vessels - even if they didn't take as many animals as they could, some folks would suely have got into some kind of floating vessel, and started fishing for food.

[Bikewer]

In one of Stephen J. Gould's books, he has an amusing description of all the creatures from the Ark fleeing hell-bent from advancing humans so as to get to their proper environmental niche before man arrives to "discover" them.

The Koala has a particularly hard time.....

[SimonD]

Something in the water, perhaps, or too much Fosters. ;)

[derail]

DR - Australians don't really drink fosters. We think of it as revenge on the British - they drink more of it then we do (I tastes bloody awful) :D

I am guessing they had life preservers in their pockets. :D

I was going to say they hopped to it, but I can hear the groans already :)

[Darth Rotor]

[derail]

DR - Australians don't really drink fosters. We think of it as revenge on the British - they drink more of it then we do (I tastes bloody awful) :D
OK, Victoria Bitter. Happy now?

DR

[DangerousBeliefs]

[derail]

DR - Australians don't really drink fosters. We think of it as revenge on the British - they drink more of it then we do (I tastes bloody awful) :D

'tis a silly little thread anyway....

I wouldn't say Fosters was "awful". It's just not that great... like Budweiser that so many people swill here in the US/Canada... mediocre.

[SimonD]

'tis a silly little thread anyway....

I wouldn't say Fosters was "awful". It's just not that great... like Budweiser that so many people swill here in the US/Canada... mediocre.

Perhaps we could start another thread :D

Taste of beer is subjective, I agree. Don't think much of Budweiser either. As we say here - 'weak as piss"

[SimonD]

OK, Victoria Bitter. Happy now?

DR

I was only having a bit of fun DR ;) - VB is okay !

ETA - I am derailing this thread - sorry

[ChristineR]

The kangaroos got out on Mt. Ararat and then the dirt under their feet continued to move until it stopped in Australia.

Also, the kangaroos hopped in the general direction of the proto-Australian dirt per God's directions.

Other theories involve rafts of floating vegetation, which the kangaroos hopped to under God's directions and which they then rode towards Australia.

Most creationists use a combination of this sort of stuff. At some point you throw up your hands and say "that's absurd!" at which time they point out that God is really awesome and can do much cooler stuff like making billions of stars on one day.

These are the people who think that evolution could never have happened by chance, too.

[The Atheist]

[QUOTE=simon dalton;2291519Australians don't really drink fosters. We think of it as revenge on the British - they drink more of it then we do (I tastes bloody awful) [/QUOTE]

Appropriate that it should be brought up in a thread about kangaroos, though. I'm sure I read how Fosters was a by-product of kangaroo farming.

[Zep]

Fosters = LaBatts Blue.

True! Same company, same recipe.

[Davo]

Sorry, but you are all wrong.

Kangaroos hitched a lift on the back of giant migrating Koala Bears.

[davefoc]

Another Noah's Ark thread. Yeah. You can never have too many Noah's Ark threads.

I believe Dr. Richard Paley has the answer to the OP question:
http://objectiveministries.org/creation/kangaroo.html

The flood occurred before the continents had broken up so that all the various kinds of animals lived around the time of Noah.

So Kangaroos were just part of the local fauna of the middle east. And how, you non-believing skeptics might ask, did the kangaroos get to Australia after the flood. Dr. Paley has two theories on that. The first theory is that they just walked (Don't forget Australia is just part of Pangea after the flood). The second theory is that they "rafted" across the Tethys Sea on floating mats of vegetation ripped up by the Flood. However, this, he says, is still controversial.

[UnrepentantSinner]

What is more difficult to explain is why all the mammals on the continent are marsupial or egg-layers, but nowhere else.

That's close, but not quite correct as there are marsupials extant in North America (Opossums a wide spread in the south) and there are numerous fossil examples of marsupial species in all parts of the Western Hemisphere. But there are no living marsupials anywhere in Eurasia or Africa. Somehow they all only went to Australia or they crossed the ocean to the Western Hemisphere. Additionally, no placental mammals seemed to have gone to Australia.

Creationists then have to explain why marsupials only were able to make it to Australia and to North America (don't forget, they claim the Grand Canyon is the result of the flood so it had to be in place when the animals were spreading) but no placental made it to Australia and no marsupials/monotremes made it to Eurasia/Africa.

[Davo]

The flood occurred before the continents had broken up so that all the various kinds of animals lived around the time of Noah.

So Kangaroos were just part of the local fauna of the middle east. And how, you non-believing skeptics might ask, did the kangaroos get to Australia after the flood. Dr. Paley has two theories on that. The first theory is that they just walked (Don't forget Australia is just part of Pangea after the flood). The second theory is that they "rafted" across the Tethys Sea on floating mats of vegetation ripped up by the Flood. However, this, he says, is still controversial.[/QUOTE].

Ummm, debateable

I can`t imagine Koala bears travelling from somewhere in the middle east to Australia, especially with their unique diet.

The same goes for animals like Polar Bears

[UnrepentantSinner]

Yes, the Aborigines certainly found Australia, though they are not likely to be the lost tribe of Isreal or stowaways on the ark - possibly they evolved from South Pacific islanders who sailed there.

Aborigines pre-date what we know as Polynesians by about 30-35,000 years. Australia was almost completely cut off from Asia before the Australnesian expansions began in China about 3500 b.c.

[H3LL]

The earth was flat and all creatures much, much bigger and more stretchy.

Even Jebus tied his ass to a tree and walked to Jeruselem...Very elastic.

Those that couldn't manage giant 7 league steps (not stretchy enough) would be carried by huge bats, which were birds in those times.

I don't see a problem myself. It all makes sense.

.

[Beerina]

Most important where did all the water go?

The universe was obviously made of nothing but water before God made the Earth. It's all around you -- around the land, under the land (wells, fountains), above the air (rain falls).

The spirit of the Lord moved over this watery chaos, and then slew the great sea dragon Leviathan (said references still existing in Psalms, though it's been expurgated from Genesis), and split it's giant body in half, the lower half becoming the land, the upper half the hard "vault" above in the sky. Together they form a pocket in which we live.

When the flood occured, not only were the windows in the vault above opened, allowing severe rain, but so, too, were the "fonts below" "busted up", allowing water to flood in upwards from below.

So where did the water go? Back where it was before the flood -- back into the infinite mass of chaotic water "out there" on the other sides of the dragon's body.

I'm surprised no scientists have written a paper on this cosmology.

[davefoc]

Ummm, debateable


Yes, there just doesn't seem to be enough evidence to decide between the rafting and the walking theories.



I can`t imagine Koala bears traveling from somewhere in the middle east to Australia, especially with their unique diet.

The same goes for animals like Polar BearsAt least on the issue of koalas, Dr. Paley has anticipated your naive question. From his site:

A naive question that a Biblical skeptic will often ask is: "How could Koalas have lived in the Middle East if there were no eucalyptus trees there?"


The answer to this is simple when we remember that the Lord's creations were created before the Fall and that their current physiological state is the result of the degeneration (due to the effects of entropy (http://objectiveministries.org/creation/slot.html)) of their original, more informationally-complex genes. In the Garden of Eden, koalas ate of all the trees (save the Tree of Knowledge, of course) not just eucalyptus trees. The two koalas who were aboard the Ark must have not yet degenerated to being only able to subsist on eucalyptus and this state of affairs must have happened after they migrated to Australia. Early Middle Eastern koalas would have been happy to munch away on figs or the like.

[Mr. Stick]

At least on the issue of koalas, Dr. Paley has anticipated your naive question. From his site:


A naive question that a Biblical skeptic will often ask is: "How could Koalas have lived in the Middle East if there were no eucalyptus trees there?"


The answer to this is simple when we remember that the Lord's creations were created before the Fall and that their current physiological state is the result of the degeneration (due to the effects of entropy) of their original, more informationally-complex genes. In the Garden of Eden, koalas ate of all the trees (save the Tree of Knowledge, of course) not just eucalyptus trees. The two koalas who were aboard the Ark must have not yet degenerated to being only able to subsist on eucalyptus and this state of affairs must have happened after they migrated to Australia. Early Middle Eastern koalas would have been happy to munch away on figs or the like.
OMG, is this a JOKE??? Or do people really believe this stuff? :(

[CFLarsen]

They skipped out.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Does the Bible explain how Noah got the word out to all the creatures so that they would know to head toward the ark? How was it determined which two of each kind would take the trip? Does it mention any surprise on the part of all the other humans to see pairs of odd creatures travelling along?

~~ Paul

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Does the Bible explain how Noah got the word out to all the creatures so that they would know to head toward the ark? How was it determined which two of each kind would take the trip? Does it mention any surprise on the part of all the other humans to see pairs of odd creatures travelling along?

~~ Paul

God used his pals -- the talking donkeys and snakes. :p

[Abdul Alhazred]

Never mind how kangaroos survived the flood.

Obviously they were on the ark. Didn't Noah live for centuries before the flood? Plenty of time to round up a couple of kangaroos.

On the other hand, how did the kangaroos get back home from Mount Ararat after the flood?

At least the platypuses could swim. :p

[WildCat]

Never mind.

[davefoc]

Never mind how kangaroos survived the flood.

Obviously they were on the ark. Didn't Noah live for centuries before the flood? Plenty of time to round up a couple of kangaroos.

Ah, finally a believer.


On the other hand, how did the kangaroos get back home from Mount Ararat after the flood?

At least the platypuses could swim. :p

Your question was already anticipated. From the my post above:
And how, you non-believing skeptics might ask, did the kangaroos get to Australia after the flood.

Dr. Paley has two theories on that. The first theory is that they just walked (Don't forget Australia is just part of Pangea after the flood). The second theory is that they "rafted" across the Tethys Sea on floating mats of vegetation ripped up by the Flood. However, this, he says, is still controversial.

I kind of like the floating map theory. Maybe with a little extension where the platypi use their tales to propel the raft to Australia. They could eat the raft on the way. Don't forget this is before entropy has degraded their digestion so that they can eat only eucalyptus. Or maybe the raft was made of eucalyptus branches and leaves. Perhaps I should mention my theory to Dr. Paley.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Does the Bible explain how Noah got the word out to all the creatures so that they would know to head toward the ark? How was it determined which two of each kind would take the trip? Does it mention any surprise on the part of all the other humans to see pairs of odd creatures travelling along?

Yes, God summoned them. God said 2 of every in one chapter and 2 of every unclean and 7 of every clean in another chapter. No it does not.

- edit, here's a link to Genesis 7. It looks like the two different numbers are both in that chapter.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Gen/Gen007.html

[TragicMonkey]

Two logical possibilities:

1. Kangaroos possessed, at that time, Satanic powers and could teleport. They have subsequently lost those powers since they were visited by Saint Euleutherian, who converted them.

2. The Flood was botched due to lazy contracters. God delegated the task to Ra, who didn't do a very thorough job. But God really needed a vacation, and he had written down exactly how to do it, so it's not his fault. Blame the god industry. They're turning out unqualified gods, diplomas in hand, and despite there being thousands of gods only a few are worth hiring. I blame lax standards and grade inflation.

[UnrepentantSinner]

2. The Flood was botched due to lazy contracters. God delegated the task to Ra, who didn't do a very thorough job.

Maybe he should have had Satet/Satis (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=nile+goddess+satet+flooding) do it instead of a the Sun god.

[Zep]

OMG, is this a JOKE??? Or do people really believe this stuff? :(Sadly, yes (http://www.creationontheweb.org/).

[FarSideOfTheMoon]

I never really thought about it before, but how lucky was god that none of the animals died on the ark. Or maybe some did, and we don't have those species anymore.

Seems a bit of a risky strategy, if it was me, I would have built a bigger ark and had 4, or maybe even 6 or each animal.

[Tirdun]

I never really thought about it before, but how lucky was god that none of the animals died on the ark. Or maybe some did, and we don't have those species anymore.

Insert joke about unicorns here.

I find the "degradation" bits of theory unimpressive. Koala ate everything and only became singular in their diet after the flood, ditto carnivores and further explaining 900 year old lifespans. It's biological bunk, an invention of desperation from deep in a painted corner. Why didn't any of the top predators follow them? No plant mats big enough? I can just see the Koala skittering across the mythical land bridge between Asia and Australia with tigers and lions close behind, leaping dramatically as Australia pulls away. The tigers skid to a stop on the new beachfront, growling in frustration. Volcanoes explode in the background from all the immense tectonic forces at play.

Very dramatic.

[korenyx]

Tigers are really good swimmers; the lions would be er... left behind.

Kore

[quixotecoyote]

They jumped really high.

[Beerina]

The answer to this is simple when we remember that the Lord's creations were created before the Fall and that their current physiological state is the result of the degeneration (due to the effects of entropy)

It's ironic that other religous folk run around saying evolution can't happen (in spite of admitted evidence from breeding of animals) because God doesn't allow changes to species.

The above also suggests God introduced entropy as part of the ejection process from Eden, or deliberately withheld its effects.

However, "degeneration" is "evolution". They degenerated, i.e. evolved, to eat eucalyptus leaves.

It's "dengeneration" because, presumably, all animals could eat everything back then (and hence lions didn't need to eat meat).

Presumably, the savage behavior of lions in killing other, terrorized and pain-experiencing animals, is also part of the degeneration. One wonders why God created animals with the teeth and claws to tear apart other animals, when he clearly intended them all to only eat plants.

One also wonders about the wisdom of allowing degeneration of one's creation.

Either that, or it's just a savage's explanation of what philosophers term "brute facts".

[Beerina]

Does the Bible explain how Noah got the word out to all the creatures so that they would know to head toward the ark? How was it determined which two of each kind would take the trip? Does it mention any surprise on the part of all the other humans to see pairs of odd creatures travelling along?

~~ Paul

It's astounding how powerful this "degeneration" concept is.

It also explains the parasites and diseases problem. Noah, his family, and the animals didn't each have to carry thousands of parasites and disease germs -- they all ate plants and everything else back then, and didn't degenerate (due to entropy) to states such that, for example, they could only live in the intestines of a South American monkey.

No! They all just boarded the ship happily like any other animal, and ate the sea kelp floating around.

Only afterward did they start degenerating. Or something.

What the flying [rule 8] did I do to deserve to have to live in a reality pocket with such asininity? Jesus Horation Christ! :mad:

[jesus_freak]

So how kangaroos ended up on Australia baffles you...but how they evolved from a goo, or even millions of years later a fish makes perfect sense to you???....And that is why this can be so confusing, one thing that may not be easily explained is ridiculous but how they "evolved" is logical in your minds!

[Dr Adequate]

OMG, is this a JOKE??? Or do people really believe this stuff? :( Objective Ministries is a joke, but people really do believe this stuff.

You can't parody creationists --- they're always one step ahead.

[Dr Adequate]

So how kangaroos ended up on Australia baffles you...but how they evolved from a goo, or even millions of years later a fish makes perfect sense to you???....And that is why this can be so confusing, one thing that may not be easily explained is ridiculous but how they "evolved" is logical in your minds! If by that you mean that we understand evolution, then yes, we do.

What we do not understand is how your magic flood is compatible with the facts of biogeography. You haven't answered that question, choosing instead to inform us that we understand evolution.

Why don't you try answering the question instead?

[strathmeyer]

So how kangaroos ended up on Australia baffles you...but how they evolved from a goo, or even millions of years later a fish makes perfect sense to you???....And that is why this can be so confusing, one thing that may not be easily explained is ridiculous but how they "evolved" is logical in your minds!

The difference being that there are plenty of people here who will explain evolution to you, but nobody anywhere seems to be smart enough to explain something that is explainable, just not easily explained.

[Senex]

I can't speak for kangaroos but this is how Australians survived the flood.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6748785.stm

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Does Mormonism shed any light on this mystery?

~~ Paul

[davefoc]

I never really thought about it before, but how lucky was god that none of the animals died on the ark. Or maybe some did, and we don't have those species anymore.

Seems a bit of a risky strategy, if it was me, I would have built a bigger ark and had 4, or maybe even 6 or each animal.

I think this may have been anticipated. Noah brought along seven (or possibly fourteen) "clean" animals and "birds of the air".

One thought is that he brought along so many animals so that he could have a few extras for sacrifice purposes when the flood abated, but maybe he was just playing it safe and wanted to make sure that at least some of the "clean" edible animals survived.

One problem that the bible skips over is how Noah went about distinguishing the males from the females. In many species it isn't all that obvious. I like the image of Noah dragging the alligators out of their ponds and then jamming his hand into them to feel around for their genitals so he could figure out which were the males and which were the females.

[noblecaboose]

In case of catastrophic flooding, their pouches can be used as floatation devices.

[The Grave]

Sorry, but you are all wrong.

Kangaroos hitched a lift on the back of giant migrating Koala Bears.


It was one small step for god....one giant hop for Kanga!:D

[The Grave]

Easy peesy...........

There was no pigging flood!:jaw-dropp