The Land of our Forefleshers

[triadboy]

I have a question about the land of Israel. Perhaps someone here could help me. When I visit a site about the history of this land, the site is either pro-Palestinian or pro-Israel, so I can't get a grasp of the true history. Is the below sequence somewhat true?

- The Jews purport a history of conquering this land from the Canaanites. They claim the land was given to them by their god, Yahweh.

- Through wars and time, the Jews are (essentially) dispersed and other people move into the land (co-mingling with the left-over Jews).

- Hundreds of years later - The UN 'gives' this land back to the Jews, on the basis of their earlier claim of divine right.

I assume this is the start of the Palistinian-Israeli conflict?

[Yahweh]

The Jews purport a history of conquering this land from the Canaanites. They claim the land was given to them by their god, Yahweh.
I told them putting their holy land next to the palestinians was a bad idea... stupid idiots... now all they do is whine and complain and moan about how much it sucks to live next to the palestinians and boohoohoo I'M SICK OF IT! Anymore bickering from you two and I will be forced to throw a meteor at the both of you. Now quit your bitchin and play nice.

[triadboy]

Can anyone answer this?

[rwald]

I think your conception of things misses the whole British Mandates era of events...to my understanding, during the time before WWII, the British promised the area that is now Israel and Jordan to the Palestinians, but also promised it to the Jews, which is part of today's problems. But I'm really not sure what I'm talking about, so maybe someone else will help.

[Segnosaur]

Just a couple of notes from my point of view:

Originally posted by triadboy

- The Jews purport a history of conquering this land from the Canaanites. They claim the land was given to them by their god, Yahweh.


The last I heard, the historical evidence doesn't necessarly support the idea of the Jews "conquering" the Canaanites. It was more likely a case of cultural integration over the course of a few generations. (And the "conquering" think was an embellishment)

Originally posted by triadboy

- Hundreds of years later - The UN 'gives' this land back to the Jews, on the basis of their earlier claim of divine right.


I'm sure different countries had different 'reasons' for giving land back to the Jews. Some may have done it out of guilt over not helping prevent the holocaust, others may have done it as a way to 'rid' their country of Jews.

Either way, 'divine right' is not really needed as a basis. The Jews DID exist in the area near Israel historically. (I doubt anyone would deny that.) And even before the state of Israel existed, there was still a fairly large Jewish population there.

Was it a good idea to create Israel? I don't know. Much of the population that currently existed in the area got displaced, which was unfair. However, we have to base our action on the current situation, and Israel has been around for 50 years. I don't think they're going away.

[triadboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Segnosaur
The last I heard, the historical evidence doesn't necessarly support the idea of the Jews "conquering" the Canaanites. It was more likely a case of cultural integration over the course of a few generations. (And the "conquering" think was an embellishment)

I totally agree - that's why I used the word "purport". The Book of Joshua is a biased fabrication [purporting a Jewish history.

[Yahzi]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
Much of the population that currently existed in the area got displaced
They didn't get displaced, they ran. During the British period, the Arabs revolted and tried to win their independence. They got squashed. A little later, the Jews revolted. Despite the fact the Brits tried harder to squash them than they did the Arabs, they couldn't do it - Jewish terrorism was too effective, and the Brits had to withdraw.

During this fight most of the Arab population fled to neighboring countries. The new Israeli state refused to allow them to come back. The Arabs who stayed were given citizenship, and 1/4 of Israelis today are Arabs.

So the rest of them sat around in refugee camps, unable to come home - but also unable to become citizens of the countries they were staying in. It's not just the Jews that wouldn't give these people citizenship - their fellow Arabs wouldn't either.

It is instructive to note that before all these revolutions, when the British were doing their level best to keep Jews from immigrating to Palestine, the Arabs in Palestine welcomed the Jews. They were, after all, brothers of the land, and they brought jobs and technology and money with them.

If the original revolution had been for Palestinian independence, with both Arabs and Jews fighting for freedom from the Brits, we wouldn't have this problem. But the Jews wanted a country where it was ok to be Jewish and persecute anybody that wasn't Jewish, and the Arabs wanted a country where it was ok to persecute anybody that wasn't Arabic, and so now both sides have gotten exactly what they asked for.

Too bad they don't want it.

[triadboy]

Thanks Yahzi and others. That's the kind of stuff I was looking for.