Ultimate Question for Truthers!!!!!!!!!

[parky76]

I know you're out there...so here it is...THE big question:

if there was a 2nd investigation, held by Phd level structural engineers, physicists, architects, scientists....and they came to the conclusion that the official story is THE STORY..

would you accept it?

[Oliver]

I know you're out there...so here it is...THE big question:

if there was a 2nd investigation, held by Phd level structural engineers, physicists, architects, scientists....and they came to the conclusion that the official story is THE STORY..

would you accept it?

Nope. :boxedin:

[HyJinX]

Nope. :boxedin:

Oliver...are you a CTist now? ;)

[Arus808]

remember, they have to be engineers, physicists, architects scientists..and the like (you know people involved with math and science)

not actors, theologians, english professors, psychologists, priests, radio dj's, and other non-science or mathematics based fields.

Start with a name. 1 name, and give us their backgrounds and what projects they've worked on in the past.

[Pardalis]

Nope. :boxedin:

You're joking right?

[Oliver]

Oliver...are you a CTist now? ;)

Nope. :D But there will be no other investigation. :(

[defaultdotxbe]

You're joking right?
i think oliver is saying Cters wont accept a second investigation that agreed with the first

and i think hes 100% right

[HyJinX]

Nope. :D But there will be no other investigation. :(


You did read the part where it said "IF THERE WAS..." didn't you? It's a hypothetical question. The answer, to which, would be very interesting if an actual Truther were to answer it honestly.

Defaultdotxbe - I understand now. You and Oliver are correct...unless it proves they're right...they'll keep asking for somebody to validate their claims. Sorry Oliver.

[Oliver]

You did read the part where it said "IF THERE WAS..." didn't you? It's a hypothetical question. The answer, to which, would be very interesting if an actual Truther were to answer it honestly.

Well, i will ask them "over there"... one minute...

[HyJinX]

Well, i will ask them "over there"... one minute...


Thank you, kind sir.

[Pardalis]

i think oliver is saying Cters wont accept a second investigation that agreed with the first

and i think hes 100% right

That's a relief! :D

And yes, he is right.

BTW Ollie, you're doing a great job over there at the LC forum, I don't know how you do it! :)

[parky76]

i have no doubt that for the hard core truthers...no amount of evidence will convince them at it was NOT an inside job. for whatever reasons, be them religous, political, emotional, ideological, what have you, they NEED to believe that their own governmant killed 3,000 of their citizens.

i think the most important message we can get across..is that even if 9-11 was done by 19 crazy coo coos...its still ok to hate what Bush has done as president. its still ok to be against the iraq war, be against attacking Iran. 9-11 does not decide the fate of the world.

[defaultdotxbe]

Well, i will ask them "over there"... one minute...
i asked them back int he forum 1.0 days, got some very interesting replies that amounted to "no" without ever actually saying no

id link to the thread but of course its been disappeared

[Alt+F4]

...even if 9-11 was done by 19 crazy coo coos...its still ok to hate what Bush has done as president. its still ok to be against the iraq war, be against attacking Iran. 9-11 does not decide the fate of the world.

Agreed. The conspiracy liars think we believe the generally accepted story because we love Bush. Gosh, one of the reasons why I do believe the generally accepted story is because Bush & Co. are a bunch of morons that could NEVER pull off something that complicated.

[parky76]

oh...but according to the New World Order conspiracy theorists, all of Bush's failures, be it Katrina, the return of the Taliban, the civil war in Iraq, are all PLANNED.

in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, there is no coincidence...there is no unintentional failure...there is no unexpected leak.

[Brainster]

This was the significance of the question that Ron (Pomeroo) Wieck asked Dylan and Jason at the Hardfire Debate, about what would falsify their beliefs. Both of them said that nothing would change their minds (such as they are). So much for Jason saying "Show me some bodies! Show me a tail section!"

This is not science, it's religion, and a cult religion at that.

[JAStewart]

Do they secretly love Bush? They give him credit for being so smart...

[Alt+F4]

This is not science, it's religion, and a cult religion at that.

Exactly. Religion is believing in something even though science tells you it's not possible.

[stateofgrace]

Agreed. The conspiracy liars think we believe the generally accepted story because we love Bush. Gosh, one of the reasons why I do believe the generally accepted story is because Bush & Co. are a bunch of morons that could NEVER pull off something that complicated.

I completely agree with you. I don't have much time for Bush & Co, but I will not condemn on the lies and distortions of the deniers.

I will support an action/policy or condemn it on the proven facts and not wishful thinking.

[hellaeon]

oh...but according to the New World Order conspiracy theorists, all of Bush's failures, be it Katrina, the return of the Taliban, the civil war in Iraq, are all PLANNED.

in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, there is no coincidence...there is no unintentional failure...there is no unexpected leak.


No unexpected leak? Does that mean all the clues the government gives them in the media etc is...*shudder*...disinformation?

[Kiwiwriter]

oh...but according to the New World Order conspiracy theorists, all of Bush's failures, be it Katrina, the return of the Taliban, the civil war in Iraq, are all PLANNED.

in the mind of a conspiracy theorist, there is no coincidence...there is no unintentional failure...there is no unexpected leak.


Which makes me wonder how in the heck the government could screw up so many things, ranging from the Mississippi Bubble Scandal of 1802 to the failure to find WMDs in Iraq in 1003. You'd think they would have planted the darn things, like that Nazi stunt at Gleiwitz to justify the invasion of Poland in 1939. Now that WAS a "false flag" operation against Germany's own citizens!

[boloboffin]

Anyone in the relevant fields worth their salt will be found to have governmental ties in even the most remote fashion. Therefore, they won't be regarded by the CTers as impartial. They either have worked for the government, do work for the government, or could work for the government in the future.

We can present facts all we want, but as you know, until the basic premises are challenged (distrust of government, primacy of self-observation), the CTers will always be with us.

[Arus808]

Anyone in the relevant fields worth their salt will be found to have governmental ties in even the most remote fashion. Therefore, they won't be regarded by the CTers as impartial. They either have worked for the government, do work for the government, or could work for the government in the future.

well I guess that would mean every expert will be disqualified because there's bound to be at least one "government" tied individual who went to a school (preschool or elementary/grammar school) that that expert went to.

That means Alex Jones, Jim Fetzer and the like are disqualified too.

[EnergeticChemistry]

Woops..I also posted a thread mirroring your question over there. I hope they don't get too sick of these questions. I need to read down a little farther next time. :boxedin:

[Calcas]

Didn't Dylan and friends already answer this question?

"What would it take to convince you that 9/11 WAS NOT an inside job?

Their unequivocal, and loud, answer was,

"NOTHING!"

[The Silver Shadow]

Didn't Dylan and friends already answer this question?

"What would it take to convince you that 9/11 WAS NOT an inside job?

Their unequivocal, and loud, answer was,

"NOTHING!"
And that's one of the reasons why I stopped being a twoofer...

[pagan]

I know you're out there...so here it is...THE big question:

if there was a 2nd investigation, held by Phd level structural engineers, physicists, architects, scientists....and they came to the conclusion that the official story is THE STORY..

would you accept it?

Yep, under two conditions:

1. Independence. No gag orders. No links to the Bush adm. Full access to all archives and Gov't info sources. No limits and no exceptions.

2. The only method used is strict scientific method.

[beachnut]

Did all the truthers already miss all the independant studies? Are they too dumb to figure out 9/11 themselves? What are all their experts doing?

[Gravy]

So, Pagan, any national security secret could be made public? All intelligence-gathering methods would be revealed? Really?

Who would do the investigating? The same 7,000 FBI agents as the first time (with allowances for newcomers and retirees), only they're not allowed to use the information they've already gathered, because it's tainted? Oh, wait, don't intelligence agencies have ties to the Bush administration? Hmm, guess we can't trust them. Let's start a new branch of government. We'll have the legislative branch, the executive branch, the judicial branch, and the ...other branch that has no ties to the rest. No, wait. Umm. Help! Please tell me how this investigation is to be run: who will oversee it and who will actually do the investigating, and what current evidence they'll be able to use or what must be discarded.

[Architect]

Yep, under two conditions:

1. Independence. No gag orders. No links to the Bush adm. Full access to all archives and Gov't info sources. No limits and no exceptions.

2. The only method used is strict scientific method.



1. But the CT movement will always claim that evidence has been hidden.

2. That will mean trained professionals in fields such as architecture, structural engineering, fire engineering and so on. Pretty much all of whom do rather seem to support the official story.

[PerryLogan]

There would also be the problem of selecting investigators who don't already find the Truther scenario idiotic. It would be a problem for a researcher to investigate a scenario so silly it would make a child laugh.

The Truther "official story" is far dumber than the government's story, with the bad guys deliberately leaving clues that no one in the world but conspiracy guys can see.

Added to this is the fact that no two Truthers agree on the story. If there were really any evidence, they could at least agree on the story. As it is, they have not presented a coherent theory.

And this is all before we even get to technical experts and engineers--who have passed unanimous judgment on the matter already. All in all, it seems like a waste of taxpayer money. Since 9/11 was not an inside job, any credible investigation would back up the government's story, as countless investigations have already done. The Truthers would declare it an obvious whitewash and go back to weaving their fantasies.

Take THAT, Truther scum! :mad:

[Poetry Hound]

While some truthers call for a new investigation, others say such an investigation is impossible because all the evidence has been destroyed already (you know, steel shipped to China, etc. etc.).

[parky76]

yes...ive heard this excuse before. i remember my sister telling me that the wtc was brought down by a controlled demo back in 2003. when i asked her "whats the evidence?" she said all the evidence was destroyed already. i cant think of a better excuse for not having evidence then to claim the conspirators destroyed it all. it really lets you off the hook.

[Architect]

Jazzz is using the same argument over on urban75. He claims that NIST and FEMA destroyed or supressed evidence but can't tell us what the evidence is because it's been....etc

Which does make you wonder how he (a) knows it existed and (b) hasn't been destroyed or suppressed.

[CHF]

Please tell me how this investigation is to be run: who will oversee it and who will actually do the investigating, and what current evidence they'll be able to use or what must be discarded.

What Pagan means, but is reluctant to say, is that he wants a new investigation carried out by kooks like himself, and that this investigation should be accepted as fact.

Notice how twoofers NEVER name the experts who they think should make up this new investigative team. Nor do they explain who should fund it.

They simply don't want to get pinned down. If the government carried out the tast then they can forever question the result. But if they round up some experts and go on record saying "I would trust structural engineer Doug Johnson" and then Doug Johnson says they're full of horse manure....well what would be their fall-back position then?

[parky76]

It would be almost impossible to find a structural engineer who has no opinion about the wtc collapses. Its their field...so they would naturally have an opinion. I have no doubt that the 9-11 Liars really dont want a new investigation, but it would be helpful if they would atleast attempt to name some scientists that they would accept as being "unbiased and impartial".

[Architect]

It would be almost impossible to find a structural engineer who has no opinion about the wtc collapses. Its their field...so they would naturally have an opinion. I have no doubt that the 9-11 Liars really dont want a new investigation, but it would be helpful if they would atleast attempt to name some scientists that they would accept as being "unbiased and impartial".


So that we could all have a laugh? ;)

[Kiwiwriter]

It would be almost impossible to find a structural engineer who has no opinion about the wtc collapses. Its their field...so they would naturally have an opinion. I have no doubt that the 9-11 Liars really dont want a new investigation, but it would be helpful if they would atleast attempt to name some scientists that they would accept as being "unbiased and impartial".


Those clowns want an "impartial investigation" of the Holocaust, too, which really means they want their idiotic ideas, like the Leuchter Report, rubber-stamped. One guy said that a truly impartial investigation of the Holocaust could have no Jews or Christians on it. That leaves Muslims, Buddhists, and guys like me who worship the atomic bomb (the religion of the Planet of the Apes mutants). Which is absurd, of course.

The CTers and Holocaust deniers'r idea of an "impartial investigation" would be a bunch of Twoofers/neo-Nazis playing out the Darrow vs. Bryan scene with the Twoofers/neo-Nazis playing the role of Darrow and honorable people as Bryan. With the result of the Twoofers/neo-Nazis being carried out of the court in triumph on the shoulders of their newly-converted followers in the courtroom's audience, and the honorable people gasping in tears as they admit they have been lying government shills all along.

This CT stuff is not really as much about what really happened on 9/11, although that's a lot of it, but about the CTers' views of the world. There is a conspiracy. There has always been a conspiracy. The conspiracy has thwarted the CTers and mankind's efforts to advance from behind the smokescreen of the conspiracy. The vast majority of people are mere sheep who follow the line of the conspiracy, and once the smokescreen is removed, they will realize they have been following the line of the conspiracy and instead follow the CTers towards victory, justice, and the new millennium.

What matters to the CTers is not the actual nature of the events, but the "life script" they have written and composed over their years of nuttery, and they cannot accept any deviation from the "life script." That's why some of these paranoids deliberately engage in counter-productive behaviors, so that their script can play out, even when nobody else is playing their assigned role.

An example of this is David Irving. He got copies of the reports on his shoddy history from the Deborah Lipstadt experts ahead of time, as he was supposed to, during that 2000 libel case. Irving then complained to the court that the reports had been leaked to the press, which would affect the decision of the judge.

Lipstadt's defense pointed out that the reports had been leaked by Irving himself. He had posted them on his website, so he had nobody to blame but himself.

Irving admitted that was true, but said he had done so with a password and a "severe health warning, as the contents were considered libelous."

The judge was not impressed by Irving's argument, nor by his complaints that the press could read the material and then write harshly about him. Judge Gray simply snapped, "I do not read the newspapers." And that was that.

But Irving continued to complain about the reports and how the media handled them. He created his own mess, blamed it on others, and whined about it. He won't admit it, I'm sure, but he was simply making sure that his life script would go out according to plan. His script called for him to be a "victim" of "press hysteria" and "leaked reports," so when nobody would set up that situation, he did it himself.

CT nuttery is also about paranoia, and having an outrageous sense of self-importance, as I've often written here. These guys all think they and only they have the answers...often they're proud of their ignorance, as we saw with Kemylleon over on his thread, and think that they know better than experts in the field. They get annoyed when other people don't share that belief that the CTer has all the answers. CTers think they should be an object of respect, and get quite angry when instead they are objects of derision, scorn, and contempt.

The pathology is more interesting than the theories. The theories are never new. It's the same old conspiracy, with the latest events tacked on. The Jews are behind it all. The Masons are behind it all. The Khazars. The bankers. The Communists. Terms like "New World Order" have replaced "Internationalist Bankers" and the "League of Nations."

I also find interesting the world they create...apparently in their world, small groups of shadowy and unknown people can keep vast organizations and huge numbers of people in check and doing their bidding, without leaving a paper trail or being held accountable. There is no honor, loyalty, tradition, justice, fairness, ethics, or any other human positive quality in the world of the CTer. Either you're in on the plot, or exposing the plot, or you're sheep. If you're a Jew, you're part of the Zionist conspiracy. If you're a structural engineer who says the 9/11 report is right, you're part of the conspiracy.

And that conspiracy can freely maintain itself through a variety of illegal and immoral and expensive measures that include mass murder, blackmail, blacklisting, terror, bribery, and other crimes on a cosmic scale.

This is the world CTers live in, so I'm not surprised that they do not practice any moral or ethical behaviors in their lives and activities. No wonder they dishonor Holocaust victims and New York firefighters. No wonder they sneer at historians and scientists. No wonder they cast disgraceful accusations on their opponents, their targets, and each other.

They become what they think they behold.