Some questions?

[Christ]

I guys, my name is Christ, and i'm a proud atheist.

Does anyone remember Franko? Does he post here anymore.Because I have suspicions that I might be posting to him on another forum. His alias is "The Serpent".

Regards

[Brian the Snail]

Hi, welcome to the forum.

Franko hasn't been seen around these parts for a while. But "the serpent" you mention could well be him. There was a thread here a while ago that might interest you:

http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9135&highlight=serpent+fool

[Christ]

Hi Brian, thankyou for the welcome.

He posts at a matrix forum, all about free-will.I've debated with him for some time, and only recently have learned the truth.He uses terms like free-willy, and free-will powers.And the whole TLOP rant.BTW, he is a logical deist.

If you would like, I will post a link to where he is currently at. I been told that many would like to talk to him, and if so then i'll be happy to post a link and show the craziness :D

Regards

[Yahzi]

I saw you over on Internet Infidels, and now you are here.

What are you, Franko's Fan Club president? Nobody wants to talk to Franko. We're all glad he's gone, and frankly, I'm tired of reading about the guy.

Now if you could get Doctor X or Synthesia to start posting here again, then that would be worth something.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Christ
I guys, my name is Christ, and i'm a proud atheist.

Does anyone remember Franko? Does he post here anymore.Because I have suspicions that I might be posting to him on another forum. His alias is "The Serpent".

Regards
Welcome to the forum, Christ. My name is Yahweh and I'm proud to be a devout atheist also.

[Brian the Snail]

Originally posted by Christ
He posts at a matrix forum, all about free-will.I've debated with him for some time, and only recently have learned the truth.He uses terms like free-willy, and free-will powers.And the whole TLOP rant.BTW, he is a logical deist.

If you would like, I will post a link to where he is currently at. I been told that many would like to talk to him, and if so then i'll be happy to post a link and show the craziness :D

That's okay, don't post the link on my account :)... though I guess there might be a few people here who might be interested. Just seems like I'll be seeing more of the same crap that I used to read here...

Personally, I thought the guy was completely nuts, and tried to avoid him whenever possible (which wasn't hard to do, since I'm more of a lurker than a poster). From what I've seen, debating him is a completely futile exercise. My advice would be to go do something more constructive, like watching grass grow or something.

[Christ]

Welcome to the forum, Christ. My name is Yahweh and I'm proud to be a devout atheist also

Thank you for the welcome. I'm a long time reader and a very short time poster, and i'm glad to be here.

What are you, Franko's Fan Club president? Nobody wants to talk to Franko. We're all glad he's gone, and frankly, I'm tired of reading about the guy

No, I actually despise the guy, after insults against atheism and absolutely no apology.The guy has brain washed another highly active forum, and perhaps help should be given to clear the disease.:DBut he was debating with me, and it was only until a few days ago that I learned the thruth.

BTW, is there any way to prove that free-will exists?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Christ


.........................

BTW, is there any way to prove that free-will exists?



What would be the point?

[Christ]

What would be the point?

To prove that we make our own decisions without any external forces. To prove that determism is false.

Regards

[Yahweh]

Why would anyone question the validity of free will. If we didnt have free will then there would be no need for consciousness. If you need an example of free will, pick your favorite color. Why did you pick it? It certainly wasn't your destiny to pick it. You picked it because you chose to. Not exactly a defiant scientific method at approaching the question of free will but it is a start.

[whitefork]

Christ, three words of advice: don't do it.

Probably about half of my post count comes from arguing with the gentleman, and it's not something I'm happy about. So much wasted time.

[Brian the Snail]

Originally posted by Christ

BTW, is there any way to prove that free-will exists?


Yes. Stop debating losers on the internet.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Christ
BTW, is there any way to prove that free-will exists? You'll never come up with a proof that Franko will buy because he doesn't want to. Despite what he says, he is neither logical nor a deist.

If you want to get rid of him, the most powerful tool you have is to ignore him. He's a troll in every way and can't stand to be ignored.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Christ


To prove that we make our own decisions without any external forces. To prove that determism is false.

Regards


Sounds like two different problems/debates to me..


And I really don't see how one could spend much time on either, and live their life in any meaningfull way..

The easy solution to end the debate, would be for everyone who believes in determinism to commit suicide. And we could see who was left over.

The people who believe in determinism, shouldn't have a problem with this...:D

[Dancing David]

Hi Christ you A-theist!

Uh the problem is not proving free will it's the moronic argument proving it doesn't exist. If you don't engage in flaming then they won't respond to your posts.

It would seem that idealists mistake free will for omnipotence.

[Beleth]

Okay, here's my lone voice in the dark:

Yes please, post the link where Franko is currently hiding out!

For the rest of you, if you don't want to read Franko's stuff, don't click on the link.

I like arguing with Franko, not because I think I can dissuade him from his views, but because I can dissuade other readers from agreeing with his views.

[Beleth]

Originally posted by Christ
BTW, is there any way to prove that free-will exists? If there were proof, humans as a species wouldn't still be arguing about it after all these years!

The only proof I have is that I know I have free will. I can feel it. This is not merely a deep-seated belief. I have more trust in the knowledge that I have free will than I have in the knowledge that 1 + 1 = 2. And if you can't feel that in yourself, then there's nothing I know how to do that would show it to you.

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Christ
I guys, my name is Christ, and i'm a proud atheist.

Does anyone remember Franko? Does he post here anymore.Because I have suspicions that I might be posting to him on another forum. His alias is "The Serpent".

Regards

Are you really christ or did frank wig out and make himself an atheist sockpuppet to come back and argue about free will with?
There's no better way to continue an apo-logical argument than to take both sides.

[Christ]

Hi guys, thanks for the replies.

Yes please, post the link where Franko is currently hiding out!

Hi Belith, here's the link. http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000705;p=2

Read the entire thread to get the full picture

This other link is where Franko recently debated with me, and i'm still waiting for a reply.

http://www.matrixcommunity.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000924;p=2

Read the whole thread.

You'll never come up with a proof that Franko will buy because he doesn't want to

Hi Upchurch, its nice to see you around here. You and Franko got along nicely :p

Are you really christ or did frank wig out and make himself an atheist sockpuppet to come back and argue about free will with?

Are you kidding me? Of course i'm not Franko.

Regards

[Nucular]

For some reason, it's kind of an atheist staple to defend free will, but I dunno.

I think it's clearly a useful concept in the immediate, mundane world. But what does it mean when we start taking a step or two back?

If it comes down to a stark choice between a and b, by what criteria are we making that choice? Who chose the criteria?

I just don't understand what is meant when people talk about free will. I don't see any room for actual non-predestined, but also non-random, choice.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Nucular
For some reason, it's kind of an atheist staple to defend free will, but I dunno.

I would find it completely illogical that we are all some kind of automotons that cannot think or choose at our will.

I think it's clearly a useful concept in the immediate, mundane world. But what does it mean when we start taking a step or two back?

If it comes down to a stark choice between a and b, by what criteria are we making that choice? Who chose the criteria?

The criteria are self chosen. There is no "higher being" that chooses the criteria for us. I choose A because I think it is a much more interesting looking letter. There is no scientific basis for determining whether something is interesting, therefore there is no criteria. I chose the letter at my own free will.

I just don't understand what is meant when people talk about free will. I don't see any room for actual non-predestined, but also non-random, choice.
Don't assume anything in the future is set in stone (except for obvious events such as death... I dont know when I'm gonna die but I know it will happen)... it hasnt happened yet.

[Nucular]

I'm not assuming anything's set in stone - I'm not being determinist, I think what we know of physics rules that out. I'm also not saying we're just automatons - clearly we're aware of stuff, in a consciousness kind of way.

And like I said, without stepping back, for the purposes of everyday life, legal responsibility, etc. we do have free will. It's just on another level, I think it becomes meaningless.

I agree thatThere is no "higher being" that chooses the criteria for us but I find it hard to understand how The criteria are self chosen - self chosen according to what criteria? At what point do we say, "ah, there's the 'me' doing the choosing"? Because that 'me' is still constructed by things beyond its control, and therefore hasn't chosen the criteria which makes it 'me' at all.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Nucular
For some reason, it's kind of an atheist staple to defend free will, but I dunno.

I think it's clearly a useful concept in the immediate, mundane world. But what does it mean when we start taking a step or two back?

If it comes down to a stark choice between a and b, by what criteria are we making that choice? Who chose the criteria?

I just don't understand what is meant when people talk about free will. I don't see any room for actual non-predestined, but also non-random, choice.


Free will means that unless you are in the grip of some OCD, that you can choose to eats eggs or a peanut butter sandwich for breakfast. It means that our choices are initiated by some sort of internal mechanism and not so stereo typic as to be
:in this circumstance subject a will always make choice b.

My belief in free will comes from reading the constitution and Richard the Third.

I would be awfuly disdappointed to find that I was an automata, then evil people aren't accountable.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Christ
Hi Upchurch, its nice to see you around here. You and Franko got along nicely :p Oh yeah. We were tight.

:dl:

[scribble]

I always liked Franko. He called me moebius - which may have been an insult to my one-sided view of philosophy, but I always thought it was a cool enough name that if I could change my login name, I'd consider it.

Say hi to him for me if anyone pops over there.

Some of you may recall when franko first started posting here, he seemed much more reasnable and logical.

-chris

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Christ
.


Are you kidding me? Of course i'm not Franko.

Regards

It never hurts to be certain. Actually Frank was OK, a little repetitive, but he was better than some of the more neolithic trolls.

[scribble]

Originally posted by justsaygnosis
but he was better than some of the more neolithic trolls. [/B]

context and my limited vocabulary suggest I should parse the word 'neolithis' as 'recently stoned.'

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Christ
I guys, my name is Christ, and i'm a proud atheist.

Does anyone remember Franko? Does he post here anymore.Because I have suspicions that I might be posting to him on another forum. His alias is "The Serpent".

Regards

I see you remember how he got kicked off deism.org.

Have you seen the flame wars forum lately?

Anyway, he was a lot for a lunatic who read about some popular trends in quantum physics. How many other lunatics jump to the random conclusion that they invented a religion and a philosophy after just that?

On top of all that he was a big fat liar, too.

[ImpyTimpy]

I wonder if Franko can also turn invisible,

Atoms are invisible,
I am made of atoms
Therefore I am invisible.

Yep, same old Franko, can't seem to understand the fallacy of composition and uses the same pseudo-scientific jargon he invented on the spot.

I guess the skeptical crowd proved too tough for his (il)logical debates.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
I wonder if Franko can also turn invisible,

Atoms are invisible,
I am made of atoms
Therefore I am invisible.

Yep, same old Franko, can't seem to understand the fallacy of composition and uses the same pseudo-scientific jargon he invented on the spot.

I guess the skeptical crowd proved too tough for his (il)logical debates.

Atoms aren't really invisible, though. Just too small to be seen by the naked eye individually or in small enough groups. But I'm sure Franko can shrink himself to the size of an atom easily with the help of a flawed syllogism.

[ImpyTimpy]

Don't throw facts into my supreme logic, you a-thiest..

:p

Originally posted by c4ts


Atoms aren't really invisible, though. Just too small to be seen by the naked eye individually or in small enough groups. But I'm sure Franko can shrink himself to the size of an atom easily with the help of a flawed syllogism.

[Christ]

Or, how about this:

Individuals that assert false syllogisms and then expect them to be validated, are crazy, delusional and insane.
Franko asserts false sylligisms
Franko is crazy, delusional and insane
:wink8:

Regards

[whitefork]

No fair posting valid arguments here.

That one violates robot's rules of order.

[Upchurch]

Ah, the sillygism.

Christ, just slap him with a good ol' Fallacy of Composition (http://www.datanation.com/fallacies/compos.htm) (explained in more detail here (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/composition.html)). He won't care, but it will show your fellow posters (one of) his logical error, at least.

[whitefork]

But be prepared when he asks you to point out the secret invisible flaw in 2+2=4 in response to your "fallacy of composition" card.

[Upchurch]

I've been thinking about the "simple as 2+2=4" question when someone pointed outThere are 10 types of people in the world. Those that understand binary numbers and those that don't.2+2=4 could be a very complex question. First, one must assume that the equasion is posed in at least base-5, otherwise, 2+2=10 (base-4) or 2+2=11 (base-3) Second, as we went into extremely stupid detail somewhere around here, you have to define 2, +, =, and 4 so there is no ambiguity. It's harder than it sounds.

[Ossai]

try this one: questions Franko didn't answer the first/second/N time around:

If I can make a decision, freewill, then I am not controlled by TLOP. If I am controlled by TLOP, then I cannot make a decision because TLOP is controlling me.

Example: It’s my fate to run a particular red light with my remote controlled car and run down a girl scout, killing her instantly. Since it’s my fate, how can I stop from running the red light?

From you earlier posts, fate/god – TLOP, controls everything. Again the remote controlled car is impounded while I walk away free and clear.

How can I behave more responsibly, if I’m being controlled by TLOP and the great TLOP conscious doesn’t want me to behave more responsibly? How can I go against the will of god? If I can, then by your definition, I’m supernatural, which would negate TLOP.



Atoms obey TLOP.
You are made of Atoms.
YOU OBEY TLOP.

Essentially states that all existence is physical. So without some sort of meta-physical existence, death is the end.

[Christ]

Christ, just slap him with a good ol' Fallacy of Composition (explained in more detail here). He won't care, but it will show your fellow posters (one of) his logical error, at least

Thanks, but i've already read most of Franko's threads, including the wonderful Wanko saga:D

I'm wondering, perhaps Franko had demon visions, otherwise known as the "demon theory", or "demon suggestions":roll:

This demon will tell him what to say, and how to explain it:p

Regards

[Christ]

Its sad that i've been debating with Franko for some time, without knowing of his antics:(

I have no idea where he is at present, as he hasn't been responding to any questions.Perhaps he is creating a new sock puppet:o .My fellow friends over there, have kind of recognized his behaviour as strange and lunatic-like.

Its also sad that many bought his explanations, because they thought that he was some kind of genius.

Regards

[justsaygnosis]

Originally posted by Christ
Its sad that i've been debating with Franko for some time, without knowing of his antics:(

I have no idea where he is at present, as he hasn't been responding to any questions.Perhaps he is creating a new sock puppet:o .My fellow friends over there, have kind of recognized his behaviour as strange and lunatic-like.

Its also sad that many bought his explanations, because they thought that he was some kind of genius.

Regards

I simply had to read 'the serpent's' posts over on the matrix board.
As Yogi Bera said,"It's deja vu all over again."
It's pure vintage Franko complete to the "controls car, controls you".
If you're going to go at it with him be prepared to polka in a phone booth. There's a lot of jumping up and down but no one really goes anywhere.

[Christ]

It's pure vintage Franko complete to the "controls car, controls you".

Its funny that no-one ever had anything convincing to argue against that explanation.:roll: They thought that they would take his word for it, but not me, NOT ME :rolleyes:

Thanks for reading those posts, at least you have an idea of what is going on.Just know that he frequently posts over there, and for some or other reason as decided to go on vacation:D

One thing I will always remember, is that once you have Franko in a corner, he will resort to the "I'm just a figment of your imagination" crap.

Regards

[triadboy]

I got here after Franko was vapor. What was the dealio with him? What did he believe?

[Christ]

Hi triadboy,

Franko believed that the law of physics were conscious:rolleyes:

Regards

[Lord Kenneth]

Welcome to the boards, Christ! I've always wondered where that lunatic went. The boards are much better without him.

[triadboy]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Christ
Franko believed that the law of physics were conscious

The Speed of light has an Obsesive Compulsion Disorder? Inertia is stubborn? Momentum is headstrong? Friction is a bitch?

Like that?

[Christ]

Thank you for the welcome, Lord Kenneth

I'm glad to be amongst intelligent individuals.

Regards