The FBI and psychics

[kittynh]

I grew up in an FBI family somewhat.

What got me about the Anderson Cooper show was that a retired FBI agent was defending Sylvia, plus, they showed a film the FBI had made of her after the first World Trade Center bombing.

I never heard of the FBI using psychics. I was wondering if anyone knew if they were still using them, as in asking them to come in and help out. Or, do they just show up, and they have to take their evidence? It sounded like Sylvia was doing a LOT of this "work" for the FBI, and indeed many psychics must be, from the quote from the retired FBI agent. AFter all, how else could he know she was "more accurate"?

I'm really just horrified that even if these supposed psychics are working for "free", how much of the FBI's time is wasted following down leads from these idiots? Its all for the publicity I should think.

Where should we complain about this? I'm just really horrified that what I thought was just Hollywood, police departments and the CIA and FBI today using psychics (I know about the huge waste of money at the CIA on their paranormal joke), on a regular basis. I thought criminal investigation was a "science". If there is anywhere that should be free from taint, it's criminal investigation.

Also, what about the rumor that psychics are testifying in court? I can't believe that is allowed. Yet I hear about it all the time. One of my friends claimed a woman in a child custody hearing brought her astrologer in to testify that she was a "good mother"...at least her chart said so! The husband had a bad chart.

[CFLarsen]

Funny how these "FBI people" always seem to be retired.

[NewMusic_Jenn]

Funny how these "FBI people" always seem to be retired.

And funny how "retired" seems to = fell of the face of the earth

[CptColumbo]

If you wish to ask the FBI agent who was quoted on AC 360 last night any questions, he has a web site.

http://www.tedgunderson.com/

The site is pretty scary and sad.

[Brown]

Cross-reference to another thread on a similar topic. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73743)

This guy might be something of a woo; but if he wants to bill himself as a retired "FBI agent," thus invoking the bureau's prestige and credibility, then he should never suggest that his own woo beliefs are in any way endorsed by or supported by the bureau.

As I mentioned in the other thread, I expect that he would sing a completely different tune if asked to address the issue from a strictly law enforcement perspective.

[NewMusic_Jenn]

If you wish to ask the FBI agent who was quoted on AC 360 last night any questions, he has a web site.

http://www.tedgunderson.com/

The site is pretty scary and sad.

Scary and sad indeed! I'm just glad to be on this side of the border ;) (just kidding!)

[Brown]

Where should we complain about this? I'm just really horrified that what I thought was just Hollywood, police departments and the CIA and FBI today using psychics (I know about the huge waste of money at the CIA on their paranormal joke), on a regular basis. I thought criminal investigation was a "science". If there is anywhere that should be free from taint, it's criminal investigation.Why not write to the bureau itself? Ask the bureau for its position on the matters discussed in the other thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=73743).

Better yet, get a camera and do an interview with someone from the public relations department in the bureau. (RSLancaster, are you listening?) Don't "Michael Moore" them, i.e., don't try to ambush them or trap them or suggest in any way that you want to embarrass the bureau. Simply tell them in advance that: you are trying to learn more about psychic participation in law enforcement; you are wondering about whether the bureau has a policy about using psychic tips to obtain an arrest or a search warrant; you would like a representative to address the usefulness of psychic tips and potential pitfalls associated with psychic tips; you want to know about whether the bureau has any psychics on staff to assist in investigations; you are curious as to whether the bureau has ever actively sought out and used free-lance psychics in the past to assist with investigations.You might also ask whether particular braggarts like Browne have ever actually helped by providing information that could not have been obtained via conventional means, but I expect the bureau would be hesitant to discuss particular cases or particular people.

You further might inquire into the bureau's policy of having its former agents, who identify themselves as such, commenting upon use of psychics in law enforcement if such commentary is at odds with the bureau's actual policy.

[Angry Skeptic]

I go to his site, see his picture, and think to myself, "What a kind looking man. He could be my granpappy."

Then, my literacy kicks in. "Bush White House Gay Sex Scandal" had me laughing (as well as the site it was hosted on) and the ads associated with it had me crying.

Carl Sagan wrote about being able to judge a target audience using the ads associated with a news source. In DHW, he used UFO rags as an example. I think the ad for the site titled "YourChristianPresident.com" speaks volumes about Mr. ExFBI.

[Comsat Angel]

Possibly the Bureau may not want to *exactly* quantify it's position vis-a-vis psychics in a consultation capacity. Were I an FBI middle level manager, I'd perhaps want to say that they "Don't entirely over-rule" the use of psychics, in the hope of jarring the world-view of potential suspects:
"Say Abner - why don't we abduct and murder that kid down the hall?"
"Heck Abednego - don't ya know the EffBeeEye retain psychics who can finger the culprits? Get out there and pound sand in a gopher hole instead!'
Case rested. Apologies to any American readers also.

[Angry Skeptic]

I agree with Comsat. The FBI is there to stop/catch people dumb enough to commit crimes. Then again, they also are charged with protecting the public from con-jobs and people who prey upon the citizens of our nation.

It has never made sense to me that what is considered a crime and what is not.

If I post an ad on a billboard that says, "Are you interested in earning a fortune? Call Me! I know the secrets you should know!" Then, for fifty dollars I tell them they can speak to a bonified financial genius who will give them stock tips... based on fake methods... drawn by fake figures... using inaccurate, ambiguous, misleading, and vague language... and this person sank all their money and lost it, and I ran all the way to the bank laughing...

or

If I post an ad on a billboard that says, "Are you interested in learning your fortune? Call Me! I know the secrets you should know!" Then, for fifty dollars I tell them they can speak to a bonified psycic genius who will give them life tips... based on carny methods... drawn by fake powers... using inaccurate, ambiguous, misleading, and vague language... and this person sank all their love and money and lost it, and I ran all the way to the bank laughing...

Damn. Now I see why they do it.

[kittynh]

well my dad is heavily involved with the retired FBI Agents association. I can't imagine many of these retired guys agree with woo dude.

Reminds me of the astronaut that is looking for Noah's Ark

[desertyeti]

Retirement seems to open up plenty of fenestrations in the brains of many individuals (possibly related to senility). Retired fingerprint examiners claim to recognize Bigfoot tracks, retired physicists claim to recognize demolition of the Twin Towers, retired FBI agents become psychic-believers. I think it just happens as one gets older and begins to realize that life has turned out pretty uneventfully. No one pays attention to you or cares a hoot about what you've done (or not done), so the next best thing is to jump on a weirdo bandwagon and hope to stand out from the crowd. Sad, really.

[CynicalSkeptic]

Don't "Michael Moore" them, i.e., don't try to ambush them or trap them or suggest in any way that you want to embarrass the bureau.

What???!?! Are you trying to imply that Michael Moore doesn't live up to journalistic standards of honesty, integrity and objectivity in his documentaries? :eek:
[/derail]

[Sherlock]

Robert Ressler, a retired agent with the FBI has been the most vocal FBI proponent for the use of psychics engaging with local law enforcement. He himself has recommended psychic detective Noreen Renier over the past 20+ years to "dozens" of law enforcement personnel. Renier is the author of the book A Mind For Murder. Don't use spaces in the title of that book and make it a web site and you'll find my extensive background on the relationship between Renier (with 11 appearances on the Court TV 'Psychic Detective' series) and Ressler. -Thanks.

[Sherlock]

The web site www.amindformurder.com (http://www.amindformurder.com) now has additional information on the extensive relationship between psychic Noreen Renier and retired FBI Special Agent Robert Ressler, the man who coined the phrase "serial killer." Renier is the only psychic to have lectured repeatedly at the FBI, and been sanctioned for use by Robert Ressler to (according to Ressler) "dozens" of other law enforcement agencies.

[ilikefrogs]

While I am NOT in PR for the Bureau and I cannot pretend to speak for the Bureau, I can give you what I have seen and done personally...

In a previous job, I worked at a switchboard for an FBI office. Most calls we got were legit (contractors, family members, etc). But every once in a while, we got the "woo" calls - people who would call in and say the Russians were putting out rays that gave us all cancer or something like that. I've also seen memos written by Agents of "tips" given by walk-ins about all sorts of "woo."

Since no one asks these so-called psychics what the FBI actually does with the tips, they can claim 'till their purple that they help the FBI. The reality, from what I have seen, is that nothing is every done with the information. (In the case of the phone calls, we'd put them on hold and see how long it took them to hang up...)

[Tamazon]

If psychic powers were real....there would be no need for the FBI.