Judeo...Christianity?

[Checkmite]

This thread was inspired by something I noticed while debating in the Ten Commandments/US law threads. It had occurred to me before, but I've decided to address it now.

A long time ago, there was Judaism.

Then there was a somewhat radical offshoot called Christianity.

These days, people tend to lazily lump the two together, with the term "Judeo-Christianity". Although one could say it's done for simplicity's sake, I don't see how this could be. See, while the Christian bible does incorporate the Torah into its body (as the "old testament"), that is where the similarity to Judaism ends. When confronted with this or that troublesome or odd law from the Old Testament, Christians are quite adamant in declaring that "the New Testament changed all that". Christian ritual is decidedly dissimilar from Jewish ritual.

At the same time, the term "Judeo-Christianity" allows Christians to take credit for some of the major influences Judaism has had on western culture.

For example, take some American laws and their similarity to this or that particular point of the "Ten Commandments". Christians point to this as being proof that the United States was founded as a Christian nation - but the Ten Commandments are Jewish. Same thing with the "2 witnesses for treason" designation in the Constitution, and various "blue laws" that some states have - all directly from Judaism. Even the oft-quoted religious references of the founding fathers never refer to Christ - just God.

Has Christianity "usurped" Judaism's contributions to civilization? Can Christians both disavow Jewish laws, but still claim incidents of shadows of those very same laws in the United States as evidence of Christian origin? Can they have it both ways?

[arcticpenguin]

You should be referring to Judeo-Christian-Mormonism. Mormons have kept the old and new testaments, but have exciting new features, like the Book of Mormon.

[Samus]

I use the term "Judeo-Christian" when referring to the god that is generally accepted by both Jews and Christians. They believe in the same god, as described in the Torah. They use the same book to lay the guidelines for their god.

You're correct, the similarities end there, as Jews do not believe that the son of god roamed the earth and died for our sins. And of course, there are exceptions to the J-C rule (generally referred to as "Jesus Freaks").

[Nyarlathotep]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
You should be referring to Judeo-Christian-Mormonism. Mormons have kept the old and new testaments, but have exciting new features, like the Book of Mormon.

It's Christianity V2.0. Now with 50% more Holy Writings!!!!

Seriously on the subject, though, I think Christians see themselves as a new and improved version of Judaism, sort of a direct heir to it's traditions, so they don't see themselves as usurping anything. Whether it would appear that way to an outsider, is going to be largely a matter of personal opinion

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
... exciting new features, like the Book of Mormon.

:D :D :D

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
You should be referring to Judeo-Christian-Mormonism. Mormons have kept the old and new testaments, but have exciting new features, like the Book of Mormon.
Every book of Mormon comes with its own Jesus Christ Action Figure.

"the father, the son, and the bad motherf..."

includes Ninja-Messiah throwing nails

Death Killer-Cross pump action over-under shotgun

Get yours today!
JesusChristSuperstore.net (http://www.jesuschristsuperstore.net/lfigurespages/lfjesus.html)!

[Landis]

Originally posted by Nyarlathotep


It's Christianity V2.0. Now with 50% more Holy Writings!!!!

Seriously on the subject, though, I think Christians see themselves as a new and improved version of Judaism, sort of a direct heir to it's traditions, so they don't see themselves as usurping anything. Whether it would appear that way to an outsider, is going to be largely a matter of personal opinion

I agree. Growing up as a Southern Baptist in the 50's we gladly adopted the Old Testament but were smugly assured by our ministers that the Jews were all going to Hell because they murdered Christ. Also, the Catholics, were all going to Hell too because they were idolators. Yep, the only ones going to get into heaven were the true Believers - the Southern Baptist!!

In the 50's I never heard the phrase Judeo-Christian being used by anyone. I think it is reflected of the political influence of the Jewish Lobby in American Politics. As they began to throw their weight around, it became politically expedient for politicians to expand their base and avoid the wrath of the Jewish lobby. The result, was we suddenly were Judeo-Christian.

[Checkmite]

What I was trying to get at was...

...is it proper, in your opinion, that Christianity takes credit for whatever influence Judaism has on western culture? If so, why?

[Tormac]

I would say you are correct as well Nyarlathotep.

With this addition, the evolution of the Judaic tradition did not stop with Christianity. I am sure any devout Moslem can explain how Christianity corrupted the original work (mostly through purposely mistranslating scriptures for political purposes), and Islam is the true fulfillment of the original design of The Lord.

I've heard devotees of both Christianity and Islam try to cash in on the historical roots of Judaism. There is nothing like having a claim that goes back future than history remembers. It makes it hard for anybody to argue with you. (I really did not mean to bring this back around to the book of Mormon, but hey I guess it fits.)

[Dancing David]

From the outside it looks like a judeo christian islam thing, I got this as apagan and someone who hung out with feminists.

They basicaly view women as property and espouse that there is only one god, and that there is something 'special' about being a member of the club.


'watch as the JCSS walks on water to defeat the evil King Herod and how he blasts fire with his 'Hell N Damnation' brimstone tosser"...

[Yahzi]

Um. It should be Judeo-Christian-Muslim-Mormon tradition.

Why do we link these religions? Because they all worship the same God. They all worship the same prophets - they just differ on when new prophets stopped coming.

A more useful term might be "monotheism." But that does not specifically refer to the God that created Adam and Eve. And all of the above religions do.

The point of using the phrase "Judeo-Christian-Muslim tradition" is to remind everybody that all this violence and confusion is not inter-religious, but merely intra-religious. Even people who worship the same god cannot agree on a definition of god.

[hgc]

Originally posted by Landis

...snip...

In the 50's I never heard the phrase Judeo-Christian being used by anyone. I think it is reflected of the political influence of the Jewish Lobby in American Politics. As they began to throw their weight around, it became politically expedient for politicians to expand their base and avoid the wrath of the Jewish lobby. The result, was we suddenly were Judeo-Christian.
This is the real reason. Don't want to alienate the Jews. All the rest is nonsense. Just ask any of the devout Christian purveyers of this terminology if Jews are going to Heaven. You'll find out that it's the Christian half of this team that counts when the chips are down (final destination-wise). It also dovetails nicely with the sick fantasy that the modern state of Israel is part of their vengeful diety's plan to destroy the world.

[justsaygnosis]

Those who refer to JC as the fullfillment of all the old law was designed to result in will argue for judeo-christianity rather than plain old christianity.
The NT derives all of its' 'validity' with regard to JC based on OT prophecy.
By the way Josh, was this your article in Skeptic Report?
http://www.skepticreport.com/mystics/beautifulpeople.htm
If it is...good job.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by justsaygnosis

By the way Josh, was this your article in Skeptic Report?
http://www.skepticreport.com/mystics/beautifulpeople.htm
If it is...good job.

It is, and thank you. :)