Convincing da Vinci?

[chran]

I was watching a program on the Shroud of Turin on National Geographic the other night. The conclusion was that Leonardo da Vinci was the painter of the piece and presented some compelling evidence.

But that's not what I want to to talk about. No, I want to ask you - if you had the ability to time-travel and meet Leonardo da Vinci, what would you bring or tell him, to convince him that you really were from the future?

I've chosen da Vinci because he was clearly brilliant and he also seems like he could have been a visionary.

I would bring a (college-level) physics book and a history of the world. If that wouldn't convince him, nothing would.

Of course, I have chosen to ignore the risk of "contaminating" the natural course of history - please feel free to take that into effect

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Was he a religious man? If so, I'd bring a modern book on evolution. I wonder if it would piss him off?

~~ Paul

[cyborg]

I think my laptop would be sufficient. Or maybe a model helicopter - I'm sure it would please him no end to see one of his inventions realised.

[666]

... (college-level) psychics book ...(My bold)
Can I have one of those, please? :)

[Ladewig]

I would bring a (college-level) psychics book and a history of the world. If that wouldn't convince him, nothing would.



I am curious as to why you added "If that wouldn't convince him, nothing would." Wouldn't a history book be among the easiest things for one of his contemporaries to fake? Wouldn't a physics book be far beyond his understanding and thus unconvincing?

Virtually any commonplace technology would be much more convincing: a pair of walkie-talkies, an iPod, a video camera.

[chran]

Was he a religious man? If so, I'd bring a modern book on evolution. I wonder if it would piss him off? One of the scientists in the show brought up the fact that he never once mentioned God in his 13,000 pages of text as proof of his atheism, so I guess he wasn't?

I think he'd be thrilled by the book. Of course, you'd have to explain DNA to him first, but I think that would be rather easy.

I think my laptop would be sufficient. Or maybe a model helicopter - I'm sure it would please him no end to see one of his inventions realised. Yes, even though he had more of a "screw-shape", whereas modern helicopters are much more "wing-like". But I think he'd understand aerodynamics, if it were explained to him.

Generally I think modern people underestimate the capacity of "old" people to understand complex things. It's not that hard to understand, if explained gently!

[chran]

(My bold)
Can I have one of those, please? :) No, you can't :p

;)

I am curious as to why you added "If that wouldn't convince him, nothing would." Wouldn't a history book be among the easiest things for one of his contemporaries to fake? Wouldn't a physics book be far beyond his understanding and thus unconvincing?

Virtually any commonplace technology would be much more convincing: a pair of walkie-talkies, an iPod, a video camera. You may be right. I was caught up in an internal discussion about what would happen when the batteries ran out? Sure, it would be convincing up till then but what about afterwards?

I just thought a physics (;)) book would "last longer" in that the principles in there could be proven to work. Of course, you'd be burned as a witch right away, but still ... :p

[boojum]

I don't know what I'd take back to da Vinci, but I want to mention a SF short story by (I think) Heinlein. It's a time travel story that implies that da Vinci himself was a time traveler "stranded" in the past. Does anyone rememeber that story? (We need Slingblade, she's a big Heinlein fan, and may remember the story if it is by him.)

[chran]

I don't know what I'd take back to da Vinci, but I want to mention a SF short story by (I think) Heinlein. It's a time travel story that implies that da Vinci himself was a time traveler "stranded" in the past. Does anyone rememeber that story? That was "The Door into Summer" - a brilliant story!

[slingblade]

I'm fairly certain you do mean "Door into Summer," the book that introduced us to Pixel, the time/dimension traveling cat. :)

[Jimbo07]

Wouldn't a physics book be far beyond his understanding and thus unconvincing?


Just because first year students struggle with their texts, doesn't mean da Vinci would... ;)

[chran]

I'm fairly certain you do mean "Door into Summer," the book that introduced us to Pixel, the time/dimension traveling cat. :) That's the first (and only(!)) story I've read, with a feline major character! :) It's really cool.

[fuelair]

I was watching a program on the Shroud of Turin on National Geographic the other night. The conclusion was that Leonardo da Vinci was the painter of the piece and presented some compelling evidence.

But that's not what I want to to talk about. No, I want to ask you - if you had the ability to time-travel and meet Leonardo da Vinci, what would you bring or tell him, to convince him that you really were from the future?

I've chosen da Vinci because he was clearly brilliant and he also seems like he could have been a visionary.

I would bring a (college-level) physics book and a history of the world. If that wouldn't convince him, nothing would.

Of course, I have chosen to ignore the risk of "contaminating" the natural course of history - please feel free to take that into effect

I suspect a few examples of technology as mentioned - I would include a handgun with telescopic and laser sight (to help maintain safety as a side effect ) and a edged device of high quality stainless.

[Molinaro]

The question I've wondered about is, what could you do to demonstrate that you are a time traveller, if you can't bring anything back with you?

Anything electronic would seem to be out of the question. Although crude batteries and such may be a possibility, but to use for what?

Gunpowder is something I could do, if I could figure out where to get some salt peter.

About the only thing I could do with any certainty would be math.

[Gbob]

I would bring a copy of the da Vinci Code by Dan Brown just so, after he finished banging his head against the wall from subjecting himself to hours of stupidity, he would then write on the Mona Lisa "It's a picture of a chick, you twit" on the bottom. This will save the world from another bad conspiracy book, and thus justify the time expense I went through to build a time machine.

Then I would play a video on my lap topof every cool bit of technology he ever envisioned. I imagine, however, that like many novice computer users he would be too busy playing solitare to notice.

[Ladewig]

I would bring a copy of the da Vinci Code by Dan Brown just so, after he finished banging his head against the wall from subjecting himself to hours of stupidity, he would then write on the Mona Lisa "It's a picture of a chick, you twit" on the bottom. This will save the world from another bad conspiracy book, and thus justify the time expense I went through to build a time machine.



Bravo!

Could we then use the time machine to jump to 1555 and prevent Nostradamus from publishing those ambiguous quatrains?

[chran]

Could we then use the time machine to jump to 1555 and prevent Nostradamus from publishing those ambiguous quatrains? Heh. I bet he'd be all like, "Oh! I didn't realize that was a problem - they're perfectly fine to me. But sure, I'll change them!"

And then he'd write things like:

Isaac Newton will formulate the law of gravitation.

Napoleon will start a war in 1795, that will last till 1815.

On the 28th of June 1914, the archduke of Austria will be shot in Sarajevo, starting a world war.

On the 22nd of November 1962, John F. Kennedy will be shot by Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas, Texas.

On July 20th 1969, the Americans will walk on the Moon.

That would be :cool:

[Beady]

And then he'd write things like:

Not if your method of convincing him involved a bullet to the back of the head.

[Ben Tilly]

That's the first (and only(!)) story I've read, with a feline major character! :) It's really cool.

Then you need to rectify that. I'd suggest reading the short story Space-Time for Springers by Fritz Leiber. You can find it in http://www.amazon.com/Space-Other-Places-Brian-Fawcett/dp/0671721186.

Cheers,
Ben

[Ben Tilly]

I was watching a program on the Shroud of Turin on National Geographic the other night. The conclusion was that Leonardo da Vinci was the painter of the piece and presented some compelling evidence.

But that's not what I want to to talk about. No, I want to ask you - if you had the ability to time-travel and meet Leonardo da Vinci, what would you bring or tell him, to convince him that you really were from the future?

http://www.amazon.com/Leonardos-Notebooks-Leonardo-da-Vinci/dp/1579124577

I'm serious. It is his work. He can recognize that he'd already written a lot of it and hadn't shown anyone. In fact it was written in mirror writing to keep it private. Moreover a lot of it contains stuff he won't have written or have thought about yet. But it is consistent with everything else that he has done, and he'd recognize that.

The fact that the methods of printing and binding are unfamiliar to him will be icing on the cake. The printed copyright date would add to that impression. He'd recognize those facts, of course, but he could have argued that someone somewhere else had invented those things and hadn't told him yet. However he wouldn't see how anyone else could have his private papers, including private papers that he had not yet written.

Given the opportunity I'd also bring a long a few other items to amaze and delight him. But I'd use his journals to convince him. (Actually if the opportunity was given, someone else should take advantage of it. I don't speak Italian...)

Cheers,
Ben

[Gilmar]

That's the first (and only(!)) story I've read, with a feline major character! :) It's really cool.

I would also suggest the short story "The Hurkle Is A Happy Beast" by one of my favorite authors, Theodore Sturgeon. Though hurkles are alien critters, not cats, their young are described as "hurkle kittens", and they do seem to have some cat-like attitudes. The story is in 2 collections, "A Way Home" and "The Perfect Host".

</scifi geek>
</derail thread>

[anduin]

I would bring my iPod.

[Schneibster]

I'd explain the Bernoulli and Venturi principles to him, and then Galileo's and Newton's experiments and math. That would be more than sufficient; no one could know that then. He'd think New Math was pretty cool, too.

[chran]

Not if your method of convincing him involved a bullet to the back of the head. Hehe! Evil! :p

Then you need to rectify that. I'd suggest reading the short story Space-Time for Springers by Fritz Leiber. You can find it in http://www.amazon.com/Space-Other-Places-Brian-Fawcett/dp/0671721186. Thank you! I'll check that out. Love those book thingies.

http://www.amazon.com/Leonardos-Notebooks-Leonardo-da-Vinci/dp/1579124577

I'm serious. It is his work. He can recognize that he'd already written a lot of it and hadn't shown anyone. In fact it was written in mirror writing to keep it private. Moreover a lot of it contains stuff he won't have written or have thought about yet. But it is consistent with everything else that he has done, and he'd recognize that. That may be the most brilliant suggestion yet! Of course he'd recognize his own work. Good thinking, plus I think he'd get a kick out of it ;)

I would also suggest the short story "The Hurkle Is A Happy Beast" by one of my favorite authors, Theodore Sturgeon. Though hurkles are alien critters, not cats, their young are described as "hurkle kittens", and they do seem to have some cat-like attitudes. The story is in 2 collections, "A Way Home" and "The Perfect Host".

</scifi geek>
</derail thread> Thread derailing is perfectly acceptable in my threads :) Thanks for the suggestions! I'll raid my library.

I would bring my iPod. And what would you play for him? ;)

I'd explain the Bernoulli and Venturi principles to him, and then Galileo's and Newton's experiments and math. That would be more than sufficient; no one could know that then. He'd think New Math was pretty cool, too. I think so too! I knew about the Bernoulli principle (on the level of: "it makes planes fly"), but hadn't heard about Venturi.

Great suggestions all! Keep 'em coming!