Tex. Gov. orders HPV vaccine - Fundies go crazy

[UnrepentantSinner]

This is an OP to a thread I've been participating in on Christian forums. It seems that a lot of fundamentalists are repeating the same tales told out of school about Gardasil that the anti-vaccine crowd tells about the rest of the vaccine regimine.
(you can click on the thread title to view the whole thread, there are Google ads in the thread btw)
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31423048&postcount=1

[UnrepentantSinner]

Here's the Press Release from Gov. Perry (http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/pressreleases/PressRelease.2007-02-02.0949). It's one of the few things he's done while in office that I'm proud of.

[clarsct]

Why am I not surprised.

"What? It helps women? BAN IT!!"


Bah.



These are the same people who are shocked when little Susie gets pregnant because she was never taught a damned thing about sex because she's a good little Christian girl who would never dream of such an awful thing and she has such good grade and blah blah blah blah blah and how can you even think that way WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN???!!!!



I just want to smack these @)(*#)*#$*#@(*(%* $#until reality dawns upon their myopic, ignorant worldview.

Bah.

[Cactus Wren]

You have to understand, these are people who genuinely believe that a ten-year-old child, on being told "This injection means that when you're grown up, a particular virus won't give you cancer", will immediately think, "Whee! Now I can go out and have unprotected sex!"

[wollery]

My first thought on reading the thread title was "go?". :D

[a_unique_person]

Guys can use it too. They can't get cervical cancer, but it will help prevent the spread of herpes and being infected by it.

[ponderingturtle]

Guys can use it too. They can't get cervical cancer, but it will help prevent the spread of herpes and being infected by it.

How? It is for the HPV virus not the herpes virus. It will help with the spread of genital warts, but not herpes to my knowledge.

[Zep]

I could not be bothered going to the trouble of registering there just to tell these Luddites some home truths.

1) The Vaccine is not "new". It's been 10 years in the making...here in Australia. And it HAS been trialled on women here with excellent success rates.

2) I'm only guessing here, but the women of Texas are the same as the women of anywhere else in the world. So they will be equally at risk from these diseases as any other woman in the world.

3) What's the beef with aluminium anyway? Do these dipwads and their female children of Texas use underarm sprays by any chance? So they get a daily dose of Aluminum Chlorohydrate at about 10% by volume used? Sheesh. :rolleyes: Just one source alone... (http://hocks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=HOP&Product_Code=4012589&source=nextag&kw=4012589)

[mumchup]

I am happy to hear about this, and I owe Geek Goddess an apology. The first thing that came to mind when I read about the Governer's order was "Texas? Wow, I never would have guessed that Texas would be the progressive state about this." But way to go Texas!
As far as the fundies are concerned, I'd really like to ask them if it would be worth it to withhold the vaccine now, even if it means that in 25 years they may be holding their daughter's hand as she dies of cervical cancer. But of course we all know that god will personally protect all the girls who don't get the whore-shot.

[Eos of the Eons]

I know, I know, these ostriches have their heads in the sands, but let's look at some facts anyways, just for fun:

By age 50, at least 80 percent of women will have acquired genital HPV infection. About 6.2 million Americans get a new genital HPV infection each year.
http://www.cdc.gov/std/HPV/STDFact-HPV.htm#common

HPV is common, and prevalent. Protecting your child from a common prevalent disease will not make them figure they can go slutting around.

HIV as yet does not have an effective vaccine. You can still get a multitude of other STIs (I guess STD is the "old" abbreviation).

Protecting your child from cancer via HPV exposure is NOT going to protect them the other diseases. Thing is, HPV is virtually undetectable by women, and many get it and the cancer without ever realizing it. Then they die.Most people who have a genital HPV infection do not know they are infected. The virus lives in the skin or mucous membranes and usually causes no symptoms.

There is no "cure" for HPV infection, although in most women the infection goes away on its own. The treatments provided are directed to the changes in the skin or mucous membrane caused by HPV infection...

That is also why it is spread so easily. HPV is a virus, and is therefore practically impossible to "treat". All you can do is prevent (via vaccine) the effects (cancer) you get after HPV exposure. The vaccine will also prevent the spread of HPV. Less people would get it, and the cancer rates will drop.

Anyways. If most women get the vaccines, only the fundie ones that don't get the vaccines will have to deal with the cancer anymore. It will then get isolated in their non-vaccinated population. If they are as "pure" as they say they are, then maybe the herd protection will help them too. Of course, if most people are fundie and don't get the vaccine, HPV will continue to kill them with cancer. Why do I not care? It's their CHOICE.

So, if they want to scare each other and say the vaccine will kill people, or say that Merck is just bribing polititians, then I will not shed a tear when one of them dies from cancer.

Eos-who had an abnormal pap in her early twenties and already had a LEEP procedure to kill pre-cancerous cells caused by HPV.

[Wolverine]

Here's the Press Release from Gov. Perry (http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/pressreleases/PressRelease.2007-02-02.0949). It's one of the few things he's done while in office that I'm proud of.

I saw the headline yesterday and did a series of double-takes. This is the same Rick Perry who constantly panders to the evangelical electorate, believes non-Christians are going straight to Hell, and wishes to see "intelligent design" taught in Texas public schools?

How'd this happen?

[Terry]

Guys can use it too. They can't get cervical cancer, but it will help prevent the spread of [HPV] and being infected by it.

Also the same pap viruses that cause cervical cancer can cause rectal cancer, so for the 5% or so of guys that end up gay, this can be a very good vaccination to have.

[skeptifem]

How? It is for the HPV virus not the herpes virus. It will help with the spread of genital warts, but not herpes to my knowledge.

the strains of HPV that cause warts are different from the ones that cause cancer. the vaccine covers something like 80% of the strains that cause cancer if memory serves. But either way it doesnt prevent aids or pregnancy soooo I dont see why it would encourage anyone to have unprotected sex.


I think unprotected sex happens around fundy kids more because no one is carrying condoms just in case.

[skeptifem]

I saw the headline yesterday and did a series of double-takes. This is the same Rick Perry who constantly panders to the evangelical electorate, believes non-Christians are going straight to Hell, and wishes to see "intelligent design" taught in Texas public schools?

How'd this happen?


I am pretty sure that children can get the virus from their mothers, maybe its all to protect future children? I mean if 80% of people have it...

[SkepticSteph]

My daughter has already received two of the three shots. The cost is prohibitive for many people who do not have insurance ($360 for the series) so it is AWESOME that the public health clinics in TX will begin stocking it.

As for the fundies...my daughter is 16, and I explained it to her. She is not currently sexually active and does not plan to be anytime soon. HOWEVER, even if she remained a virgin until marriage (I honestly do not care one way or the other) her HUSBAND could still carry the virus. Or she could be raped. Life happens...I want her protected just like I did from polio, rubella, measles, mumps and tetanus earlier in her life.

I would also expect my daughter to be bright enough to use birth control and a condom if she does become active. The shot makes no difference.

[UnrepentantSinner]

One other point of fact to add to Eos's post above, Gardisil only protects against 4 strains of HPV, there are more than 20 others that will still cause warts so just because one is protected from cervical cancer does not mean one won't get warts be they on the genitals or other parts of the body.

I saw the headline yesterday and did a series of double-takes. This is the same Rick Perry who constantly panders to the evangelical electorate, believes non-Christians are going straight to Hell, and wishes to see "intelligent design" taught in Texas public schools?

How'd this happen?

The word from the opposition is that it's payback to Merck for big donations to his campeign. Even if that's the case, I really don't care. The vaccination, while manditory, can be opted out of and it will save lives. I wish more insurance companies would cover the cost. From what I've seen most aren't.

[Mark A. Siefert]

You have to understand, these are people who genuinely believe that a ten-year-old child, on being told "This injection means that when you're grown up, a particular virus won't give you cancer", will immediately think, "Whee! Now I can go out and have unprotected sex!"

Trust me, it's not "unprotected sex" that the fundies are concerned about. Most fundies hold condoms in the same regard as evolution and global warming: Something that "evil, liberal, secularists" tout that good Christian folk know really doesn't work. It's PRE-MARITAL sex that drives these knuckle draggers to distraction.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I could not be bothered going to the trouble of registering there just to tell these Luddites some home truths.

Zep, if you would like I'll either cross post what I snipped or, if you want to compose a different message, I'll post it. Just let me know.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Trust me, it's not "unprotected sex" that the fundies are concerned about. Most fundies hold condoms in the same regard as evolution and global warming: Something that "evil, liberal, secularists" tout that good Christian folk know really doesn't work. It's PRE-MARITAL sex that drives these knuckle draggers to distraction.

Maybe someone who isn't at work like I am and can do a search for the crass comments made by a South Dakota legislator on how he was justifying his support for exemptions in the case of rape. I can't recall the exact working, but the tone of it was disgustingly crass towards rape victims who weren't "virginal and chaste." As if they were the only ones who deserve protection from being forced to carry their rapists baby to term.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Maybe someone who isn't at work like I am and can do a search for the crass comments made by a South Dakota legislator on how he was justifying his support for exemptions in the case of rape. I can't recall the exact working, but the tone of it was disgustingly crass towards rape victims who weren't "virginal and chaste." As if they were the only ones who deserve protection from being forced to carry their rapists baby to term.

Let me Help:

FRED DE SAM LAZARO: Napoli says most abortions are performed for what he calls "convenience." He insists that exceptions can be made for rape or incest under the provision that protects the mother's life. I asked him for a scenario in which an exception may be invoked.

BILL NAPOLI: A real-life description to me would be a rape victim, brutally raped, savaged. The girl was a virgin. She was religious. She planned on saving her virginity until she was married. She was brutalized and raped, sodomized as bad as you can possibly make it, and is impregnated. I mean, that girl could be so messed up, physically and psychologically, that carrying that child could very well threaten her life.

Source: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june06/abortion_3-03.html


It is not too far a stretch to say that the primary reason religious conservatives oppose birth control, abortion, sex education, or treatments for STDs because they want pregnancy and disease to continue to exist as impediments for any sexual activity outside of heterosexual, monogamous, missionary-position-only, procreative sex.

And people wonder why I became an atheist.

[Tony]

Here's the Press Release from Gov. Perry (http://www.governor.state.tx.us/divisions/press/pressreleases/PressRelease.2007-02-02.0949). It's one of the few things he's done while in office that I'm proud of.

I'm kind of ambivalent about this. Sure, I think it's a good thing that the vaccine will be mandatory, and I always like to see fundies in a tizzy, but I wish Perry wouldn't have so shady about making this law.

[Zep]

Zep, if you would like I'll either cross post what I snipped or, if you want to compose a different message, I'll post it. Just let me know.Full and free usage, no problem. Hope it helps...!

[LostAngeles]

Even though I'm in a long-term monogamous relationship, I still make it a point to get the full range of tests done when I get my annual pap done. (And like Eos, I had an abnormal result too once. It was nothing, but they are scary).

So this year, I said, "Hey, why don't I get the vaccination just in case? I'm not expecting my boyfriend to bring me home any new strains of HPV and it does no good if I already have it, but I'm insured and it exists! Ounce of prevention!" And I went off and looked it up only to find that I was almost 6 months too late in being able to get it, as the FDA has only approved it for ages 9-26...

I was absolutely psyched when I heard about this. It's a vaccine against a certain types of cancer. How is that not something that everyone should get?

Stupid ass fundies...

[UnrepentantSinner]

I had this exchange with one of the geniuses over there:

Uh no. HPV is a different story. It’s a sexually transmitted disease, meaning a kid’s chances of contracting it at school are incredibly low, unless little Sally has a seriously nearsighted math teacher.

But the vaccine isn't to protect little Sally when she's in the 6th grade, it's to protect her when she's 20, and 30, and 40 and 50, etc. Why is this so hard for people to understand? I can't fathom a reason for the dissonance unless they are obsessed with dirty dirty sex?

My quote responded to in two parts:
She can still be protected without the vaccine.

Because there is a clear difference between diseases that are transmitted via casual contact, and diseases that are transmitted via sexual contact.

There is one 100% sure way to be protected from sexually transmitted diseases. You can't say the same for
other diseases.

I respond to those two parts:
Really? How will she be protected if she has a philandering husband? Or does every marriage wind up perfect in white picket fenceville? She has NO protection from HPV without the vaccination.

See my bold above. Dirty Dirty Sex! NO VACCINE FOR YOU!

Etc...
Make sure she marries a husband who isn't philandering. Or do you suggest that ALL marriages wind up with philandering husbands?

[a_unique_person]

How? It is for the HPV virus not the herpes virus. It will help with the spread of genital warts, but not herpes to my knowledge.

My bad, wrong disease, same principle.

[Zep]

Even though I'm in a long-term monogamous relationship, I still make it a point to get the full range of tests done when I get my annual pap done. (And like Eos, I had an abnormal result too once. It was nothing, but they are scary).

So this year, I said, "Hey, why don't I get the vaccination just in case? I'm not expecting my boyfriend to bring me home any new strains of HPV and it does no good if I already have it, but I'm insured and it exists! Ounce of prevention!" And I went off and looked it up only to find that I was almost 6 months too late in being able to get it, as the FDA has only approved it for ages 9-26...

I was absolutely psyched when I heard about this. It's a vaccine against a certain types of cancer. How is that not something that everyone should get?

Stupid ass fundies...

Remember how you used to lie about your age to get an ID-card? Well, this is WAY more important, so do that again.

[Ivor the Engineer]

Also the same pap viruses that cause cervical cancer can cause rectal cancer, so for the 5% or so of guys that end up gay, this can be a very good vaccination to have.

So not only will being immunized against HPV make girls sleep around, it turns boys gay!

[Fitter]

With regards to the fundies reaction this (http://%22http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/03/us/03texas.html?ref=health) New York Times article states: On the whole, however, conservative and religious groups have not come out strongly against the vaccinations as long as families can opt out. I'm wondering if too much credit is being given to a very small portion of the population and they are assumed to be speaking for the entire movement. That being said I fully support the governments actions and hope to see it spread to other jurisdictions.

[Dr. Imago]

You can still get a multitude of other STIs (I guess STD is the "old" abbreviation).

I think this is an important distinction. Using "disease" connotes a clinically apparent process that has signs and symptoms. As we know, infections can be prevalent without anyone realizing that they are there. Chlamydia, for example, can be clinically silent or inapparent in 80% of women and a large number of men. So, using the word "disease" in the purest sense doesn't accurately portray the risk, even though it may seem a bit pedantic to substitute infection in lieu of it.

As far as the HPV vaccine, as others have noted, it doesn't protect against all of the non-cancer producing strains. And, as we've often learned the hard way in the past, this is by no means a "cure" for cervical cancer. That would mean that vaccines are 100% effective 100% of the time, which they aren't. Likewise, Many viruses are wiley and have a way of circumventing our attempts to curb their spread. But, it is still a good idea to get vaccinated. It is an equally good idea to inform children and teens that this does not mean they are protected from STI's, just that they have a better chance of avoiding some known bad players.

-Dr. Imago

[Terry]

So not only will being immunized against HPV make girls sleep around, it turns boys gay!

it is part of The Agenda. 'Nuff said....

[Katana]

When people are allowed to opt out for religious reasons, do they need to "prove", if you will, the reasons for their doing so? Meaning, would people objecting to one vaccine (the HPV vaccine) out of a misconception that it will make their children promiscuous be able to opt out if they permit other vaccines? Tehy would be hard-pressed to find in any religion that permits all vaccines but one. For that matter, in what religion are vaccines specifically forbidden?

Having said that, the Texas governor's sight says that parents will be able to opt out of this one for "reasons of conscience". I hope that their conscience gives them great comfort should their daughters suffer the consequences for their ignorance.

[LostAngeles]

Remember how you used to lie about your age to get an ID-card? Well, this is WAY more important, so do that again.

I wish it were that simple. In order to get in an affordable way, I'd have to go to either the school's clinic or UCLA Medical Center. I'm already in the records with my birthdate and I'm pretty certain that the clinics do ask for an ID, but I'm not entirely certain.

What I am considering is going to the school's clinic and asking if they're running any of the studies for women over the age of 26 there. It's a huge ass research hospital with a big student population nearby so I should hope so.

Oh and Zep... Never lied about my age for an ID card. :D

[clarsct]

Well, as you're such a young lady to begin with, I don't forsee a problem, LA...;)


US, I had much the same reaction, if you look at my above post(s). All Christian Children are perfect and all Christian marriages work out.

Whatever. What a bunch of bollocks.
They stick their heads in the f'kin sand and call it all God's will. In the process they take risks with the futures of their children, using their children as puppet to show how holy they are. It's a Christian tradition as old as Lot.

I have met Christians that are good people, but people like this earn nothing but my contempt. They aren't willing to risk their own comfort for Chistianity, but they'll damned well make sure someone else does. Even their children. Pathetic.

I'm going to go check Superbowl scores before I get downright depressed.

[Zep]

I wish it were that simple. In order to get in an affordable way, I'd have to go to either the school's clinic or UCLA Medical Center. I'm already in the records with my birthdate and I'm pretty certain that the clinics do ask for an ID, but I'm not entirely certain.

What I am considering is going to the school's clinic and asking if they're running any of the studies for women over the age of 26 there. It's a huge ass research hospital with a big student population nearby so I should hope so.

Oh and Zep... Never lied about my age for an ID card. :D:D

You know what I mean! You are a prime candidate, you desire the protection, and you just missed some arbitrary red-tape cut-off date by a mere few months. Kick some ass, pull some strings, get it done! You know you can do it! Good luck!

[thaiboxerken]

Fundie christians are often against medical progress. To them, medical practice is "playing god."

[LostAngeles]

:D

You know what I mean! You are a prime candidate, you desire the protection, and you just missed some arbitrary red-tape cut-off date by a mere few months. Kick some ass, pull some strings, get it done! You know you can do it! Good luck!

Well, if I gotta stick my foot up anyone's ass, I guess it should be UCLA Medical, cause if anyone can get it out... :D

[rwguinn]

This is an OP to a thread I've been participating in on Christian forums. It seems that a lot of fundamentalists are repeating the same tales told out of school about Gardasil that the anti-vaccine crowd tells about the rest of the vaccine regimine.
(you can click on the thread title to view the whole thread, there are Google ads in the thread btw)
http://www.christianforums.com/showpost.php?p=31423048&postcount=1
While I have no problem with vaccines--and in fact, am rather vocal in my support of them, in no way is cervical canceer contageous--I use the term as it applies to smallpox, polio, whooping cough, etc.
Mandatory vaccination for contageous disease is a good thing--herd immunity (I learned that term here) is necessary for those diseases.
Mandatory vaccination for this, however, is almost as stupid IMO,as the Conspiracy theorys about 9/11, or "Creation" theories.
It is political. period

[Ivor the Engineer]

While I have no problem with vaccines--and in fact, am rather vocal in my support of them, in no way is cervical canceer contageous--I use the term as it applies to smallpox, polio, whooping cough, etc.
Mandatory vaccination for contageous disease is a good thing--herd immunity (I learned that term here) is necessary for those diseases.
Mandatory vaccination for this, however, is almost as stupid IMO,as the Conspiracy theorys about 9/11, or "Creation" theories.
It is political. period

HPV is a contageous disease.

[ClintonHammond]

"in no way is cervical canceer contageous"
This isn't about cervical cancer, d'uh.... This is about something that can help CAUSE Cervical Cancer...

[Orangutan]

it is part of The Agenda. 'Nuff said....

I never got a copy of the Agenda so I stayed Straight. 'You Guys' really need to disseminate your agenda better, you missed quite a catch in me I can tell you.

In the mean time I feel sorry for 'Poor Suzi' who by the time she realizes what a good think the vaccination might have been, it could be too late.

There is a line in the bible that says "The sins of the fathers shall be visited on the children", Or something like that.
I think this should top a new list of "The Stupid of the Parents shall be visited on their children"

[Dr. Imago]

"in no way is cervical canceer contageous"
This isn't about cervical cancer, d'uh.... This is about something that can help CAUSE Cervical Cancer...

Help? For all intents and purposes, HPV is the sole cause of cervical cancer. Prevent it's transmission and infection, and you prevent cervical cancer. Period.

Good Christian virgin boys who marry good Christian virgin girls are probably safe. Of course, we all know that good Christian parents can make certain that happens with their kids, right?

What this is really about is idealistic parents not willing to admit to themselves that their kids might become sexually active without their permission. And, their inherent belief that this demonstrates of "lack of trust" in their children that subjecting them to the vaccine conveys.

To them I say: GET OVER IT! IT'S JUST A COUPLE OF SHOTS!

-Dr. Imago

[ClintonHammond]

"Prevent it's transmission and infection, and you prevent cervical cancer. Period."

So, there you have it

[Katana]

"Prevent it's transmission and infection, and you prevent cervical cancer. Period."

So, there you have it

Well, it will prevent most cervical cancer. Not all cervical cancer is caused by HPV. Since I was nitpicky in another thread, why not be consistent? :p

Even beyond the cancer benefit, HPV can lead to precancerous changes. These lead to abnormal pap smears that require further evaluation, biopsies, procedures that can cause fertility problems and/or pregnancy complications, and frequent follow-up pap smears to prove that the treatment was successful. If we can make even a small dent in this, the healthcare savings could be huge, and a lot of anxiety on the part of patients can be avoided.

[thaiboxerken]

here we go again, we're thwarting god's punishment for the promiscuous.

christians are against this vaccine for that reason.

[mumchup]

I'm reminded of an old joke I heard Whoopi Goldberg tell about how if AIDS is passed through male homosexual intercourse and heterosexual intercourse, and AIDS is god's way of smiting people he hates, then lesbians must be the chosen people.
Just a joke obviously, but it does highlight some of the problems of trying to blame illness on sin.

[merentha]

*looks at tags* What has this got to do with thongs?

[a_unique_person]

here we go again, we're thwarting god's punishment for the promiscuous.

christians are against this vaccine for that reason.

I guess whooping cough is for bad babies.

[UnrepentantSinner]

*looks at tags* What has this got to do with thongs?

Keep in mind who initiated the OP, click on the thongs tag, get your answer from the results.

[RenaissanceBiker]

All 3 of my daughters have received the vaccine.