The Shortest Thread Ever?

[bonavada]

I was wondering.........has there been an occasion that any sceptic here has read something by a 9/11 CTist that was unexplainable? i mean like a "hey he/she has a point there" moment. has there ever been a time when you even slightly doubted the "official story" (if there is such a thing)?
i really honestly can't think of one myself.
JAQ

BV

[Alt+F4]

has there ever been a time when you even slightly doubted the "official story" (if there is such a thing)?
i really honestly can't think of one myself.

There is one thing that the CTers got right: Finding WMDs would not be enough to convince Americans to support a war against Iraq. Iran and North Korea are close to having them yet the U.S. has done nothing about it.

Another thing I would call more of an unaswered question than a doubt: the money trail. The 9/11 Commission estimates that the attacks cost from $400,000 to $500,000 yet they were not able to determine the origin of the money.

[Bobert]

I for one am still wondering what Cheney did with those TRILLIONS of dollars.
:)

[MG1962]

Another thing I would call more of an unaswered question than a doubt: the money trail. The 9/11 Commission estimates that the attacks cost from $400,000 to $500,000 yet they were not able to determine the origin of the money.

Yeah I agree here. And it has always made me pause and wonder why CT people don't go after the politics of the situation instead of wasting time with beam weapons and spring loaded light poles

[TellyKNeasuss]

There is one thing that the CTers got right: Finding WMDs would not be enough to convince Americans to support a war against Iraq. Iran and North Korea are close to having them yet the U.S. has done nothing about it.

I'm not sure what point you're making. There was a significant fraction of Americans who supported the invasion and the vast majority of them believed (and many of them still believe) that Iraq HAD (not was "close to having") WMDs.

[Architect]

I for one am still wondering what Cheney did with those TRILLIONS of dollars.
:)

I believe he used them silencing the worldwide construction community, especially us engineers and architects.

Must dash....the servants are just finishing polishing the Bentleys ;)

[Alt+F4]

I'm not sure what point you're making. There was a significant fraction of Americans who supported the invasion and the vast majority of them believed (and many of them still believe) that Iraq HAD (not was "close to having") WMDs.

Why was the administration so freaked out by the threat of WMDs during the winter of 2002/2003 but doing nothing in 2007 when we know for sure what Iran and North Korea are up to? I think the Bush used the fresh wound of 9/11 to scare people into supporting the invasion of Iraq. Why? I don't think it was a plot to grab Iraqi oil or Afganistani poppys. I think Bush is a moron who actually believed his bad, bad intelligence. Now four years later he's trapped and we're all paying for it.

[Horatius]

Why was the administration so freaked out by the threat of WMDs during the winter of 2002/2003 but doing nothing in 2007 when we know for sure what Iran and North Korea are up to? I think the Bush used the fresh wound of 9/11 to scare people into supporting the invasion of Iraq. Why? I don't think it was a plot to grab Iraqi oil or Afganistani poppys. I think Bush is a moron who actually believed his bad, bad intelligence. Now four years later he's trapped and we're all paying for it.

I think the problem is, too many of them actually believed their own propaganda. They really did believe that Iraq would be a walkover, and simply never planned for a long-term occupation.

Now, they know they don't have the resources to go after Iran and North Korea, so they're playing it quiet on those fronts, but their fundamental arrogance prevents them from admitting they were wrong about Iraq. Not unlike some of our twoofer buddies, come to think of it.

[TellyKNeasuss]

Why was the administration so freaked out by the threat of WMDs during the winter of 2002/2003 but doing nothing in 2007 when we know for sure what Iran and North Korea are up to? I think the Bush used the fresh wound of 9/11 to scare people into supporting the invasion of Iraq. Why? I don't think it was a plot to grab Iraqi oil or Afganistani poppys. I think Bush is a moron who actually believed his bad, bad intelligence. Now four years later he's trapped and we're all paying for it.

I disagree. I believe that oil was the primary motive, not to gain control for the benefit of US oil companies but to use the oil for leverage against China. I'm just having trouble believing that the intelligence agencies were so wrong (egads, I'm sounding like a CT'er). You are far from the only person who disagrees with me.

Don't you think that it's likely that Shrub hasn't taken any action against North Korea because it likely does have nukes, and wouldn't hesitate to use them?

However, I do agree with you that Bush is a moron.

[Coritani]

I disagree. I believe that oil was the primary motive, not to gain control for the benefit of US oil companies but to use the oil for leverage against China. I'm just having trouble believing that the intelligence agencies were so wrong (egads, I'm sounding like a CT'er). You are far from the only person who disagrees with me.

Don't you think that it's likely that Shrub hasn't taken any action against North Korea because it likely does have nukes, and wouldn't hesitate to use them?

However, I do agree with you that Bush is a moron.

Woah. Hold the phone there.

Before the war, Iraq produced about 2% of the worlds Oil. The US didn't even need their oil - they got plenty from Canada and Saudi Arabia. If they wanted oil, why not invade Iran, or Saudi Arabia? (note: I'm aware of how much of a catastrophe it would be to invade Iran and Saudi Arabia).

edit: not that I'm implying that the current Admin is anything but imcompetent.

[TellyKNeasuss]

Woah. Hold the phone there.

Before the war, Iraq produced about 2% of the worlds Oil. The US didn't even need their oil - they got plenty from Canada and Saudi Arabia. If they wanted oil, why not invade Iran, or Saudi Arabia? (note: I'm aware of how much of a catastrophe it would be to invade Iran and Saudi Arabia).

I don't recall saying that the US needed Iraq's oil. China is likely to need Iraq's oil. Iraq has the world's 4th largest reserves. China is in a massive industrialization program. China will need more oil. Four of the top 6 oil reserve countries were already US allies (Saudia Arabia, Canada, Kuwait, and UAE). Install a govt. friendly to the US in Iraq and China will be forced to be dependent on a US ally for oil.

[jhunter1163]

I disagree. I believe that oil was the primary motive, not to gain control for the benefit of US oil companies but to use the oil for leverage against China. I'm just having trouble believing that the intelligence agencies were so wrong (egads, I'm sounding like a CT'er). You are far from the only person who disagrees with me.

Don't you think that it's likely that Shrub hasn't taken any action against North Korea because it likely does have nukes, and wouldn't hesitate to use them?

However, I do agree with you that Bush is a moron.

N. Korea has possibly as many as six nuclear weapons. The US doesn't have as many as it used to, but my guess is that we have WAY more than six.

Now, even one nuke going off over a populated area of the US will ruin everyone's day, but Kim has to know that the US would surely retaliate in kind if he used his nukes against us. It would quite literally be suicidal.

Bush isn't leaning hard on North Korea because he has no political capital to spend on it. Whoever succeeds him, however, will have to deal with the issue. Should be interesting.

And I'm glad I live on the EAST coast of the US.

[Coritani]

I don't recall saying that the US needed Iraq's oil. China is likely to need Iraq's oil. Iraq has the world's 4th largest reserves. China is in a massive industrialization program. China will need more oil. Four of the top 6 oil reserve countries were already US allies (Saudia Arabia, Canada, Kuwait, and UAE). Install a govt. friendly to the US in Iraq and China will be forced to be dependent on a US ally for oil.

Hrmm. I thought China gets all of its Oil from Iran and Russia/the nations in the caucasus?

[Kage]

I don't recall saying that the US needed Iraq's oil. China is likely to need Iraq's oil. Iraq has the world's 4th largest reserves. China is in a massive industrialization program. China will need more oil. Four of the top 6 oil reserve countries were already US allies (Saudia Arabia, Canada, Kuwait, and UAE). Install a govt. friendly to the US in Iraq and China will be forced to be dependent on a US ally for oil.

Interesting, though I think that if you want to talk oil as a motivation the issue was keeping oil priced on the dollar rather than the euro. I personally don't think that there was any single issue that motivated this debacle, there was a laundry list of reasons why we went to war with Iraq.

I also find it interesting that they don't know where the money came from. Not interesting enough to consider massive CD operations and remote controlled planes and missles and holograms. Interesting like "bank accounts in saudi arabia" interesting.

[gumboot]

Back to the OP, the one thing for me is Bush... I'd like some more info on his actions on 9/11 and who decided what would happen, and why.

Why did he stay in the classroom? Who decided that? Why?

Etc...

-Gumboot

[uruk]

There is one thing that the CTers got right: Finding WMDs would not be enough to convince Americans to support a war against Iraq. Iran and North Korea are close to having them yet the U.S. has done nothing about it.

Another thing I would call more of an unaswered question than a doubt: the money trail. The 9/11 Commission estimates that the attacks cost from $400,000 to $500,000 yet they were not able to determine the origin of the money.

Wasn't Osama from a rich Saudi family?

[Orphia Nay]

There is one thing that the CTers got right: Finding WMDs would not be enough to convince Americans to support a war against Iraq. Iran and North Korea are close to having them yet the U.S. has done nothing about it.

Another thing I would call more of an unaswered question than a doubt: the money trail. The 9/11 Commission estimates that the attacks cost from $400,000 to $500,000 yet they were not able to determine the origin of the money.

I don't know about that amount, but they have traced at least some of it. The Moussaoui trial evidence includes a Sun Trust bank receipt of a $9485.00 transaction sent to Al Shehri or Atta from Isam Mansour (?) of the United Arab Emirates. It's exhibit GX-BR00028A.
http://www.rcfp.org/moussaoui/

Wasn't Osama from a rich Saudi family?

Yes, uruk.


With regards to the Iraqi oil question, I can't recall where, but I think I heard recently that the profits of their oil now go to the Iraqi people. I could have heard it in Bush's speech a few weeks ago... :boxedin: