Wolfman
6th February 2007, 11:51 PM
Okay, this is a slightly more fanciful thread than some others I've started, but a topic that I've done more than a little musing upon (I'm not quite sure what that says about me).
First, to define a "cryonaut"; it is a term that has been used in a few science fiction stories to describe someone who uses cryonics as a way of 'traveling' through time (being frozen now, re-awoken at some time in the future). This would, for me, be something that I'd absolutely love to do. Get frozen for 100 years, then wake up for 2-3 years to see what things are like at that time. Get frozen for another 100 years, then resuscitated again. And just keep following this pattern. Even with current medical knowledge, I've got a reasonable expectation of 30-40 more years of life, which would let me see (albeit in a rather fleeting manner) around a thousand years of human history. If one makes the reasonable assumption that they will be able to extend human life even longer by that time (which is probably one of the most reasonable assumptions being made here), then I've got the potential to see even more.
Sadly, there is the 'practical' side to this...and there are a number of problems in this regard:
1) Cryonics is still unproven. There is no proof that cryonics actually works. There is some circumstantial evidence (freezing and resuscitation of small mammals, for example), but even the most adamant proponents of cryonics acknowledge that it is currently beyond the scope of scientific knowledge to bring a cryonicly frozen human being back to life. Even if it eventually proved to be possible, we have no way of knowing whether or not the current methods of freezing are, in fact, the proper/best methods to use.
2) It is illegal to be frozen via cryonics until after you've died a 'natural' death. A person who is healthy and wishes to be frozen is not allowed to do so. Never mind the challenges of freezing and resuscitating a person, on top of that you must fix whatever it is (old age, cancer, etc.) that has killed the person in the first place. It makes the odds significantly longer.
3) Methodologies and theories vary, and have no way of verifying them. For example, many cryonics facilities state that the only organ that it is really important to preserve is the brain; and freezing just a head allows for less trauma to the brain than does freezing the entire body. Their argument is that in the future, technology will advance to the point where a new body can be grown for the head. Now for me, I find that just a little too far into the bizarre and unreal. Even if they could do such a thing, what about the legal/ethical implications? Would not the production of a new human body for the old head mean also producing a head which would subsequently have to be removed? Would that not constitute murder?
And as a cryonaut, I can't say that I'm terribly keen on the idea of having my head repeatedly cut off, and a new body grown for me every 100 years. Ugh, nope -- I'm not gonna' go that route. Which means full body cryonic preservation (but given current technology, that means greater potential damage to my brain).
4) Legal ambiguities -- under current laws, once I am frozen, I am legally dead. That means I cannot own any property. What is my legal status then...especially when brought back to life? I'm sure I could set up legal trusts that would manage the financial and bureaucratic aspects of keeping me frozen, but there is simply no legal framework as to how to deal with a person in such a situation.
5) Then, of course, there are the problems related to an unpredictable future. Will future societies be willing to resuscitate me, even if they are able to do so? What if I'm resuscitated into a society that has a dictatorship, or is a post-nuclear wasteland? I guess these are unknowables that I'd just have to risk, if I engaged in such a venture.
So, at present, the actual likelihood of me becoming a 'cryonaut' seem to be virtually non-existent. Before I'd even consider it, I'd want to see proof that the process (both the freezing and the resuscitation) was reliable; I'd need to find a country where it was legal for me to freeze myself before dying a 'natural' death; and I'd have to have the financial resources to justify a reasonable expectation of being able to finance my ongoing refrigeration.
When I talk about this, the vast majority of people think I'm absolutely nuts; but there are always a few who get that "Wow, that'd be really cool" look in their eyes. Of course, I get asked tons of questions about this.
"What about your friends, your family, etc.? Wouldn't you miss them?" Well, yes, I'm sure I would. But I've always been a traveler, quite footloose, and don't have much problem with putting old connections behind me. I tend to look towards what is coming, not what I've left behind.
"How would you live or support yourself in such societies?" Actually, I'd anticipate being something of a celebrity. And the longer I did it, the more of a celebrity I'd be. Granted, this is not guaranteed, but I consider it a reasonable expectation.
"What if you were never resuscitated?" Well, I guess I'd never know it, would I? I'm an atheist, so if I die, that's it, end of story. And while some people find it bizarre, I think that dying what is essentially a completely painless death (simply never to be resuscitated again) in the pursuit of such a grand adventure as this (to see hundreds/thousands of years of human development) would be more than worth the risk.
I'm just curious to hear what others think in this regard. Although I'm sure that some discussion will inevitably revolve around the practical issues of whether this is possible or not, what I'd really like to hear more is discussion of "if this were proven to be possible", would it be something that you'd consider?
First, to define a "cryonaut"; it is a term that has been used in a few science fiction stories to describe someone who uses cryonics as a way of 'traveling' through time (being frozen now, re-awoken at some time in the future). This would, for me, be something that I'd absolutely love to do. Get frozen for 100 years, then wake up for 2-3 years to see what things are like at that time. Get frozen for another 100 years, then resuscitated again. And just keep following this pattern. Even with current medical knowledge, I've got a reasonable expectation of 30-40 more years of life, which would let me see (albeit in a rather fleeting manner) around a thousand years of human history. If one makes the reasonable assumption that they will be able to extend human life even longer by that time (which is probably one of the most reasonable assumptions being made here), then I've got the potential to see even more.
Sadly, there is the 'practical' side to this...and there are a number of problems in this regard:
1) Cryonics is still unproven. There is no proof that cryonics actually works. There is some circumstantial evidence (freezing and resuscitation of small mammals, for example), but even the most adamant proponents of cryonics acknowledge that it is currently beyond the scope of scientific knowledge to bring a cryonicly frozen human being back to life. Even if it eventually proved to be possible, we have no way of knowing whether or not the current methods of freezing are, in fact, the proper/best methods to use.
2) It is illegal to be frozen via cryonics until after you've died a 'natural' death. A person who is healthy and wishes to be frozen is not allowed to do so. Never mind the challenges of freezing and resuscitating a person, on top of that you must fix whatever it is (old age, cancer, etc.) that has killed the person in the first place. It makes the odds significantly longer.
3) Methodologies and theories vary, and have no way of verifying them. For example, many cryonics facilities state that the only organ that it is really important to preserve is the brain; and freezing just a head allows for less trauma to the brain than does freezing the entire body. Their argument is that in the future, technology will advance to the point where a new body can be grown for the head. Now for me, I find that just a little too far into the bizarre and unreal. Even if they could do such a thing, what about the legal/ethical implications? Would not the production of a new human body for the old head mean also producing a head which would subsequently have to be removed? Would that not constitute murder?
And as a cryonaut, I can't say that I'm terribly keen on the idea of having my head repeatedly cut off, and a new body grown for me every 100 years. Ugh, nope -- I'm not gonna' go that route. Which means full body cryonic preservation (but given current technology, that means greater potential damage to my brain).
4) Legal ambiguities -- under current laws, once I am frozen, I am legally dead. That means I cannot own any property. What is my legal status then...especially when brought back to life? I'm sure I could set up legal trusts that would manage the financial and bureaucratic aspects of keeping me frozen, but there is simply no legal framework as to how to deal with a person in such a situation.
5) Then, of course, there are the problems related to an unpredictable future. Will future societies be willing to resuscitate me, even if they are able to do so? What if I'm resuscitated into a society that has a dictatorship, or is a post-nuclear wasteland? I guess these are unknowables that I'd just have to risk, if I engaged in such a venture.
So, at present, the actual likelihood of me becoming a 'cryonaut' seem to be virtually non-existent. Before I'd even consider it, I'd want to see proof that the process (both the freezing and the resuscitation) was reliable; I'd need to find a country where it was legal for me to freeze myself before dying a 'natural' death; and I'd have to have the financial resources to justify a reasonable expectation of being able to finance my ongoing refrigeration.
When I talk about this, the vast majority of people think I'm absolutely nuts; but there are always a few who get that "Wow, that'd be really cool" look in their eyes. Of course, I get asked tons of questions about this.
"What about your friends, your family, etc.? Wouldn't you miss them?" Well, yes, I'm sure I would. But I've always been a traveler, quite footloose, and don't have much problem with putting old connections behind me. I tend to look towards what is coming, not what I've left behind.
"How would you live or support yourself in such societies?" Actually, I'd anticipate being something of a celebrity. And the longer I did it, the more of a celebrity I'd be. Granted, this is not guaranteed, but I consider it a reasonable expectation.
"What if you were never resuscitated?" Well, I guess I'd never know it, would I? I'm an atheist, so if I die, that's it, end of story. And while some people find it bizarre, I think that dying what is essentially a completely painless death (simply never to be resuscitated again) in the pursuit of such a grand adventure as this (to see hundreds/thousands of years of human development) would be more than worth the risk.
I'm just curious to hear what others think in this regard. Although I'm sure that some discussion will inevitably revolve around the practical issues of whether this is possible or not, what I'd really like to hear more is discussion of "if this were proven to be possible", would it be something that you'd consider?