Help with Penta water

[NobbyNobbs]

I was picking some items up at the supermarket (Acme, if you wondered) this evening and saw Penta water on the shelf. I thought I had recognized the name from reading Randi's commentaries. Posted on the shelf next to the water was a laminated sheet extolling its virtues. I copied it down, and have reproduced it here, exactly as it appeared, grammar mistakes, capitalization, and all.


Penta--Taste & Feel the Difference

The purest and highest quality water on the market is now available!

What is Penta?

Penta is ultra pure, resturctured drinking water proven to hydrate cells more effectively. As part of its rigorous 13-step purification process, a patented physics procedure using high energy sound waves that changes Penta's molecular structure--giving it unique properties unlike those of other drinking water.

Penta's unique properties have been shown to improve cellular function by increasing alkalinity, aiding detoxification and supporting production of repair proteins.

Simply put, Penta's superior hydration will help you live "the good life".

Penta Water Has Been The #1 Selling SKU In Health Food Stores For 3 Consecutive Years!

The restructured water is proven to hydrate 14% more effectively.

I might also add that whereas the unit price of Perrier was $1.79/quart, the unit price of Penta was $3.77/quart.


My question is this: as a conscientious and self-respecting skeptic who recognizes pure bunk when he sees it, what is my next step? Do I talk to the store manager? What do I say? How do I prepare for various responses? Should I have scientific studies ready (and where do I find them?)? Or do I just forget it and let the sheep waste their money?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.

[Flange Desire]

Take it up with your consumer protection agencies.

Their claim that "The restructured water is proven to hydrate 14% more effectively" looks fraudulent to me.

[Jackalgirl]

...My question is this: as a conscientious and self-respecting skeptic who recognizes pure bunk when he sees it, what is my next step? Do I talk to the store manager? What do I say? How do I prepare for various responses? Should I have scientific studies ready (and where do I find them?)? Or do I just forget it and let the sheep waste their money?

Well, I would definitely talk to the store manager, armed with some evidence. There's an article about the pseudoscience behind Penta Water here (http://www.chem1.com/CQ/pentabunk.html).

You will need to be prepared, of course, for the inevitable argument that it sells, and it makes money for the store, and people want it, so what's the harm in that?

You know what? Now that I think about it, I'd suggest shopping around your local news outlets. Find the ones that do a "consumer protection"-style segment. See if you can't talk to one of the reporters as an "average consumer with average scientific knowledge" and see if the reporter would be willing to accompany you to the store to ask the manager your questions (and get it on tape). It'd be cool.

Of course, I'm sure it doesn't bear mentioning that you'll need to keep calm & rational, etc. But I'd love to see the segment.

[Flange Desire]

Sure, you could try some 'consumer protection' TV program,
but don't you guys have government bodies that handle consumer fraud in your country?

[Jackalgirl]

Take it up with your consumer protection agencies.

Their claim that "The restructured water is proven to hydrate 14% more effectively" looks fraudulent to me.

This is an excellent point too. I imagine that something capable of changing water's molecular structure (i.e., converting it into something that is /not water/) would require some kind of approval, such as by the FDA. But that's just guessing. Penta Water's (http://www.pentawater.com/research.shtml) website, however, makes no mention of any study of safety. It gives a standard definition of FDA's requirements for the labelling of /water/, which I hazard to guess Penta Water is /not/ since it has been changed on a molecular level -- please correct me, any chemistry experts we have out there?

Only one study directly related to Penta Water that they list on their studies page has been published, by the way (the others are all "in preparation for publication" or no publication data is given) which claims that kidney stones dissolve three times faster in Penta Water than they do in lab-distilled water. I imagine I could do that by adding some old-fashioned acid.

[Jackalgirl]

Sure, you could try some 'consumer protection' TV program,
but don't you guys have government bodies that handle consumer fraud in your country?

Yes. But I'd say do both. You never know when the cat-like reflexes of governmental offices will spring into gear.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Type in Penta into the search feature.... Randi also did a commentary on it.

[NobbyNobbs]

You will need to be prepared, of course, for the inevitable argument that it sells, and it makes money for the store, and people want it, so what's the harm in that?



Any ideas on how to counter that one? All hail the almighty dollar......

[Garrette]

Any ideas on how to counter that one? All hail the almighty dollar......Tell them you want them to stock your magic rocks that keep tigers away.

[Starthinker]

Tell them you want them to stock your magic rocks that keep tigers away.

Hey, I bought one of those rocks and I haven't seen a tiger since.

[Jackalgirl]

Any ideas on how to counter that one? All hail the almighty dollar......

I'm afraid I can't. I wish I could, other than to say that I personally think it's abhorrent to sell a lie in order to make money.

The only thing I could think to say is if the item in question claims to be medicinal in nature (i.e., like homeopathic stuff), makes those medical claims in the store, and someone uses it instead of a tested, effective medicine and is harmed by doing so, that perhaps the store (certainly the maker) would be open to lawsuit. As far as I can tell, Penta doesn't make any medical /cure/ type statements about their water. The most they say is "it's cleaner than any other tested bottled water", "it leaves the stomach faster than any other tested bottled water", "it hydrates faster than any other tested bottled water", and it "causes more rapid nerve firing and power output from muscles" (all on its FAQ page (http://www.pentawater.com/faq.shtml)). How many other bottled waters they tested, I dunno. The cited studies are all "in preparation for publication". So as far as I can tell, this is a case of caveat emptor (or, alternately, "there's a sucker born every minute").