No longer Dr McKeith - another small victory [Archive]

Nero

12th February 2007, 04:18 AM

http://www.24dash.com/health/16424.htm

I wonder what her motives really are in doing this.

You beat me to it, I was just about to post.

In the UK “Dr” Gillian McKeith has been peddling her wares as a Nutritionist via numerous books, herbal products, and a Channel 4 television show (You are What You Eat). She makes numerous ridiculous nutritional claims that even a basic GCSE student would find laughable. Anyway, for the good news.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2011151,00.html

“Gillian McKeith, the You Are What You Eat presenter, has agreed to drop the title Dr from her company's advertising after a complaint to the industry watchdog. She has made millions from book and health food spin-offs, but her credentials have been questioned by some experts.”

And another longish article by Dr Ben Goldacre, again in today’s Guardian, lambasting the old witch for being a menace to science.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2011095,00.html

Most, if not all of the credit for this has to go to Ben Goldacre, his web blog (www.badscience.net) and the contributors to his forum.

Well done one and all.

Timble

12th February 2007, 04:34 AM

Her motive are probably due to articles like these in the Guardian, that indicated that her "PhD" is of debatable value:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2011095,00.html

For those who aren't aware of it Ben Goldacre's Bad Science column in the Grauniad and his site are excellent resources for those battling voodoo science.

http://www.badscience.net/

pmckean

12th February 2007, 04:48 AM

Ben Goldacre's article, previously posted:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/food/Story/0,,2011095,00.html

...is outstanding. It's systematic and thorough. This guy is a credit to The Guardian, and to the credibility of skepticism.

To those who may have skipped it due to length, it's worth a read.

Jaggy Bunnet

12th February 2007, 05:25 AM

http://www.24dash.com/health/16424.htm

I wonder what her motives really are in doing this.

According to the Times coverage:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1370214.ece

"In a move that will prevent the publication of the ASA adjudication, McKeith Research has “voluntarily” accepted not to call her “doctor” any more."

Sounds like she REALLY didn't want the ASA adjudication to be published. Might be an interesting route to go after others who make similarly misleading claims in their advertising.

brettDbass

12th February 2007, 05:37 AM

According to the Times coverage:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/article1370214.ece

"In a move that will prevent the publication of the ASA adjudication, McKeith Research has “voluntarily” accepted not to call her “doctor” any more."

Sounds like she REALLY didn't want the ASA adjudication to be published. Might be an interesting route to go after others who make similarly misleading claims in their advertising.

Now that is interesting.
A case of prevention is better than truth?

Dave_46

12th February 2007, 06:00 AM

Ben Goldacre was on You and Yours on Radio 4 today. He was followed by Max Clifford trying to rubbish him, implying that he was only complaining because she made more money than him.

Dave

cj.23

12th February 2007, 06:06 AM

I hope his well qualified deceased cat was there as well! Absolutely wonderful, thanks for the news!

:D

cj x

Lothian

12th February 2007, 06:12 AM

Edited :I was beaten to it by CJ because I spent 6 mins finding out that Ben Goldacre’s late cat was called Henrietta.

Mojo

12th February 2007, 06:15 AM

Maybe no longer "Dr" in advertisements, but she's still "Dr Gillian" or "Dr Gillian McKeith" 27 times on her homepage (not including the 5 book cover images on which "Dr" is visible). That's up from 20 when I last counted them back in November last year. The ASA doesn't deal with claims made on a company's own website.

Mr Clingford

12th February 2007, 06:48 AM

Yes, this is something to celebrate.

Diamond

12th February 2007, 06:51 AM

I always objected to the "You are what you eat" programme on the grounds that it encouraged me to eat more vegetables...well Gillian you might be but I'm all meat.

Jaggy Bunnet

12th February 2007, 06:55 AM

I always objected to the "You are what you eat" programme on the grounds that it encouraged me to eat more vegetables...well Gillian you might be but I'm all meat.

Dara O'Briain does/did a bit on her in his comedy show and part of it is on his recent DVD.

Why are so many comedians sceptics?

Ocelot

12th February 2007, 07:11 AM

If we are to accept pretend Doctor Gillian McKeith's suggestion that "you are what you eat" we should presume that her favourite meal is some sort of sour scottish tart. The recipe for which requires disguising the lack of any worthwhile content with an over abundance of puff.

JQH

12th February 2007, 07:21 AM

If her diets are so good, how come she looks older than my mum, despite being younger than me?

Darat

12th February 2007, 07:24 AM

If her diets are so good, how come she looks older than my mum, despite being younger than me?

And so bloody miserable!

I blame her parents - I was taught not to play with my poo when I was quite young.

comburentblossom

12th February 2007, 09:20 AM

Originally posted by JQH:

"If her diets are so good, how come she looks older than my mum, despite being younger than me?"

It's having to fight off all that nasty press and unfair criticism.... ;) ...ahh diddums

brettDbass

12th February 2007, 09:22 AM

brodski

12th February 2007, 09:29 AM

And so bloody miserable!

I blame her parents - I was taught not to play with my poo when I was quite young.

Come, now, let's be totally accurate here, it's not her poo which she is playing with. Not that that makes it any better.

Kimpatsu

12th February 2007, 09:42 AM

Come, now, let's be totally accurate here, it's not her poo which she is playing with. Not that that makes it any better.
IOW, whatever she says, it's crap...

FarSideOfTheMoon

12th February 2007, 01:25 PM

Dean Morrison

12th February 2007, 01:48 PM

What she's actually said is this:

Ms McKeith, 47, said the complaint to the ASA arose from a leaflet that did not include the disclaimer that she was not a medical doctor. She told The Guardian that she understood the honorific had to be removed from such leaflets but not all advertising. She said: “As far as I am concerned, because of the hard work I have done, I will continue to put PhD after my name and I am entitled to use the word Dr as and when I choose.”

So she still intends to use the title - just not in adverts where there isn't the space to fit in a disclaimer in the small print.

More interesting perhaps is the fact that she uses the title in German editions of her 'work' - in Germany posing as someone with and academic title that isn't earned is a criminal offence. Another of Ben Goldacre's contributors is on the case:

http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1808&sid=f0b837358edb4d3eeacfe270e85dba40

brettDbass

13th February 2007, 02:51 AM

What she's actually said is this:

So she still intends to use the title - just not in adverts where there isn't the space to fit in a disclaimer in the small print.

More interesting perhaps is the fact that she uses the title in German editions of her 'work' - in Germany posing as someone with and academic title that isn't earned is a criminal offence. Another of Ben Goldacre's contributors is on the case:

http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1808&sid=f0b837358edb4d3eeacfe270e85dba40

Excellent stuff. I hope they stick with this pursuit and don't run out of interest.
It would be a fine result to bring this whole charade squarely to the top of the news stories.

ps. TAPL?

Mojo

13th February 2007, 03:01 AM

TAPL?The Awful Poo Lady.

brettDbass

13th February 2007, 03:16 AM

The Awful Poo Lady.

:newlol

Rrose Selavy

13th February 2007, 06:09 AM

I'm not very good at remembering names but I never forget a faece.

-

ponderingturtle

13th February 2007, 08:16 AM

Dara O'Briain does/did a bit on her in his comedy show and part of it is on his recent DVD.

Why are so many comedians sceptics?

Are they? So much woo is so stupid it is great fodder for humour, but that does not mean that they do not have many woo beliefs.

Jaggy Bunnet

13th February 2007, 09:30 AM

Are they? So much woo is so stupid it is great fodder for humour, but that does not mean that they do not have many woo beliefs.

Many seem to be, of course it could just be that I find their material funny because they are sceptical..

Linda Smith, Python, Billy Connolly, Dara O'Briain and Alan Davies spring immediately to mind.

brettDbass

13th February 2007, 09:38 AM

Ashles

13th February 2007, 01:28 PM

Many seem to be, of course it could just be that I find their material funny because they are sceptical..

Linda Smith, Python, Billy Connolly, Dara O'Briain and Alan Davies spring immediately to mind.
And Ricky Gervais who is extremely sceptical and openly and vocally atheist.

He also mentions Gillian McKeith in his current stand up tour "Fame" and says something along the lines of:

"No leave Dr Gillian McKeith alone. She IS a real doctor and I've seen a copy of the cheque she sent to a non-accredited university to prove it.
She gives out advice like 'You must eat all the colours of the rainbow to have a healthy balanced diet'... but surely that would be a diet of Skittles wouldn't it?"

brodski

13th February 2007, 01:42 PM

And not forgetting Harry Hill, of course.

And the now show team.

ETA- and how could we forget Stepehn Fry?

Jaggy Bunnet

13th February 2007, 02:12 PM

And Ricky Gervais who is extremely sceptical and openly and vocally atheist.

He also mentions Gillian McKeith in his current stand up tour "Fame" and says something along the lines of:

"No leave Dr Gillian McKeith alone. She IS a real doctor and I've seen a copy of the cheque she sent to a non-accredited university to prove it.
She gives out advice like 'You must eat all the colours of the rainbow to have a healthy balanced diet'... but surely that would be a diet of Skittles wouldn't it?"

O'Briain compares her advice to "eat broccoli, because it contains little pixies who will come out when you are asleep and mine away your fat".

Simpsons and South Park also appear to have a fairly sceptical attitude.

bridgy

13th February 2007, 03:25 PM

Can I add Tim Minchin to that list of comedians...

Go to http://www.timminchin.com/media/ scroll down to the short song "If You Open Your Mind Too Much Your Brain Will Fall Out (Take My Wife)" and have a listen - I promise you it is brilliant!! :D

Dean Morrison

13th February 2007, 05:18 PM

Can't believe you've missed out Douglas Adams! (author of Hitch-hikers Guide to the Galaxy for anyone who hasn't heard of him).

Dawkins gave the reading at his funeral FFS!

..........

I'm sure there are some funny religious people too - but on the whole they're too pompous to be funny.

Being funny requires that you be irreverent doesn't it?

Kind of rules out the true believers doesn't it??

Questioninggeller

13th February 2007, 07:27 PM

The television health presenter Gillian McKeith has agreed to remove the title Dr from her company's advertising following a complaint to the industry watchdog.

...

Her company, McKeith Research, offered to withdraw the honorific from future products before a full investigation was launched.
...
Max Clifford, Gillian McKeith’s PR representative, insisted she had not misled the public. He said: "This was one complaint in relation to one leaflet from one trade show, and it was withdrawn."
...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/12/nmckeith112.xml

Does this mean changing her official homepage?

http://www.drgillianmckeith.com/

brettDbass

14th February 2007, 03:22 AM

And the now show team.

ETA- and how could we forget Stepehn Fry?

Fry is a waverer.
Read 'Moab Is My Washpot' to experience his ever-changing views on religion and the like.

In fact, read it anyway 'cause it's a bloody good book.

Big Les

14th February 2007, 05:28 AM

Are they? So much woo is so stupid it is great fodder for humour, but that does not mean that they do not have many woo beliefs.

Case in point; you might expect Jack Dee to be somewhat sceptical (or in fact, cynical) but I heard him last week on Radio 4 telling the story of how he had his house exorcised of ghosts Apparently the pendulum the guy had really did move without him touching it... *sigh*.

And with BrettDbass's avatar in mind, let's not forget Stewart Lee and his Jerry Springer The Opera, as well as the stuff he and Richard Herring used to do vis religion on "Fist of Fun".

Ashles

14th February 2007, 12:57 PM

jimbob

14th February 2007, 01:53 PM

"Warmunch", over on bad-science (yes we do infest here too...) has also complained to the Baverian Minestry of science,a s it is a criminal offence in Germany to pass oneself off as a Doctor without accreditation.

http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1808

I have written to the Bavarian ministry of science, asking if TAPL or her publisher are breaking the law. I've presented the evidence as best as I could - this should be enough for a sufficiently strong suspicion to arise that the authorities look into it themselves. After all, this is a matter of criminal law, as I understand it. Und Robert ist dein Onkel.

Beg your pardon steve - this refers to my discovery that passing yourself off with a fake academic title is against German law, and that TAPL has done exactly that when she had her book translated.

Discussed here:
http://badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1225

I felt this should be shared further...

Jim

tkingdoll

14th February 2007, 02:31 PM

And with BrettDbass's avatar in mind, let's not forget Stewart Lee and his Jerry Springer The Opera, as well as the stuff he and Richard Herring used to do vis religion on "Fist of Fun".

You ever hear the 'banned' Simon Quinlank church crawl hobby sketch? It's very, very funny. The script was doing the rounds a while ago and there's a recording of that show online somewhere.

Big Les

14th February 2007, 05:32 PM

You ever hear the 'banned' Simon Quinlank church crawl hobby sketch? It's very, very funny. The script was doing the rounds a while ago and there's a recording of that show online somewhere.

No! If you come across a link I'd be keen to see that. With some weak lemon drink, naturally...

brettDbass

15th February 2007, 04:13 AM

Oh yeah - I loved Fist of Fun. They did great parodies of biblical stories.

I remember the sketches from TMWRNJ

"Consider the lilly..."

"Aaaaaahh!"

Rrose Selavy

15th February 2007, 05:42 AM

No! If you come across a link I'd be keen to see that. With some weak lemon drink, naturally...

Here's a link to the script -( I think) Post #4
found via Google
http://forum.southwalesmassive.com/index.php?showtopic=37114#

Big Les

15th February 2007, 07:23 AM

Brilliant, thanks. Ah, the nostalgia. Kevin Eldon is in Simon Pegg's new film "Hot Fuzz", the coolness of which I can vouch for having seen it last night. So's Bill Bailey and Adam from Adam and Joe.

Where were we? Oh yes; McTeeth and her unfortunate predicament! It's amazing how easily one can make a fortune out of thin air and vague self-help advice. She's sort of Hubbard-lite, really.

Dean Morrison

16th February 2007, 04:58 AM

Max Clifford, Gillian McKeith’s PR representative, insisted she had not misled the public. He said: “This was one complaint in relation to one leaflet from one trade show, and it was withdrawn.

“I hardly think that’s misleading.

“She contacted the ASA, they talked and worked out a solution. . “She should be judged by what she does and whether it works, and there’s an awful lot of people who practise what she preaches and who are very happy with it.

“She’s had TV series and best-selling books which suggest it does work. You can’t last five very successful years in this area unless you get results.”

That's an interesting test of scientific truth...

Jesus has a a book - but no TV series as far as I know - does that mean his 'results' are less successful than 'Dr' McKeith TAPL

Never realised that Max Clifford was such a post-modernist.

Or perhaps it hasn't occurred to him that she's been so successful in getting a TV series and selling books is because she's been deliberately misleading people into believing that she's a medical 'Doctor'.

JQH

16th February 2007, 05:07 AM

The "results" as far as Channel 4 are concerned, is how much advertising revenue her programme brings in. Since it's constantly hyped and shown on prime time, they charge quite a hefty sum for advert slots. Accuract doesn't come into it.

FarSideOfTheMoon

16th February 2007, 06:29 AM

Helping morbidly obese people lose weight by forcing them to eat less calories, that's kind of revolutionary isn't it?:boggled:

Unfortunately that wouldn't make a sustainable television series in the eyes of the Channel 4 marketeers.

Inventing a myriad of biological bunkum to explain why the subjects have lost weight, that's a nice selling point to the scientifically illiterate. Plus you can make a canny profit from as many sidelines as you can possibly invent, that is probably only limited by your own imagination and business acumen.

FarSideOfTheMoon

16th February 2007, 06:31 AM

This reminds me of the letter that was printed in esteemed publication Viz a few years ago.

Goes something along the lines of:

"If Max Clifford is such a great PR Guru, why is it that everyone thinks he is such a C***".

** think worst possible 'C' word **

:D

Professor Yaffle

16th February 2007, 06:40 AM

Kevin Eldon is in Simon Pegg's new film "Hot Fuzz"

I think you will find that is "The Actor Kevin Eldon"...

Deetee

16th February 2007, 11:59 AM

Ben Goldacre published a mini-rant about nutritionists, including the awful poo lady, in last week's British Medical Journal.

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/334/7588/292

You can read the responses, even if you do not have an athens log-in to access the original article.

Big Les

16th February 2007, 02:40 PM

I think you will find that is "The Actor Kevin Eldon"...

I had a vague memory of him being billed as that in the HF credits; you make me think I may have remembered correctly. I thought that was strictly a Fist of Fun thing.

McKeith was lampooned on the News Quiz tonight on Radio 4; nice to see them taking note. They even mentioned her recent horny goat weed problem (http://www.badscience.net/?p=326)..

JQH

17th February 2007, 11:00 AM

Channel 4, which broadcasts TAPL's programme, was challenged by another Guardian journalist as to why they are broadcasting scientific inaccuracies. She got the response "You have your view, others have theirs". When it was pointed out that it was scientific facts, not personal values that were being discussed, the response was "A lot of people sign up to these ideas"

Could that be because a supposedly public-service broadcaster transmits them uncritically?

Liverpolitan

27th February 2007, 11:29 AM

Oh yeah - I loved Fist of Fun. They did great parodies of biblical stories.

"Aaaaah"

youtube + "70IAwHTzrHI"

You know what to do. There's tons on there.

Jaggy Bunnet

28th February 2007, 11:58 AM

Many seem to be, of course it could just be that I find their material funny because they are sceptical..

Linda Smith, Python, Billy Connolly, Dara O'Briain and Alan Davies spring immediately to mind.

And you can add Viz magazine (home of toilet humour and not as funny as it used to be) to the list:

From the latest issue, a cartoon set in a school biology lab.

Mr Snodworthy (a teacher): "Today we will be doing Biology, so you can spend the lesson dissectin gthese frogs whilst I drift off into a sexual fantasy about being spanked by the dinner ladies."

Headmaster (entering): "Ah Mr Snodworthy. I have an important announcement. This is Sir Peter Fruitcake, a wealthy local businessman who has just given me a cheque for two million quid. Consequently, this school has now become a "faith-based city academy". That means as well as taching our pupils proper science, we will also teach them any daffy load of old cobblers that Sir Peter believes in."

Sir Peter: "That's right. And I happen to believe in the existence of magical little pixies who live in the woods. So from now on instead of dissecting frogs in biology class, I want your pupils to dissect pixies."

Headmaster: "Come on then, Mr Snodworthy. Give each pupil a pixie and a scalpel and set them to work."

Mr Snodworthy: "B-but headmaster there.. erm.. there aren't any pixies. There's just frogs."

Headmaster: "Snodworthy! How dare you disrespect Sir Peter's beliefs!"

It would be even funnier if it was not so close to the truth.

Mojo

1st March 2007, 08:06 AM

And you can add Viz magazine (home of toilet humour and not as funny as it used to be) to the list:I know these have been posted before, but don't forget Morris Stokes, Paranormal Grocer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/morrisstokes01.shtml) and Hypochondriac Chuckles with Sheridan Poorly (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/sheridanpoorly01.shtml).

Paul

12th March 2007, 09:24 AM

A little McKeith media watch update...

From Friday's Now Show (http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/comedy/nowshow.shtml) (Radio 4 topical satire and ranting):
I'll try another doctor.

Good morning, give me a piece of your poo.

I said doctor, you stool slicing freak.

FarSideOfTheMoon

13th March 2007, 07:24 AM

I know these have been posted before, but don't forget Morris Stokes, Paranormal Grocer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/morrisstokes01.shtml) and Hypochondriac Chuckles with Sheridan Poorly (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/sheridanpoorly01.shtml).

It's not just the cartoon strips which have turned skeptic, the 'news' stories are often hitting the target too. And hit the target they do...

Rrose Selavy

13th March 2007, 08:24 AM

I know these have been posted before, but don't forget Morris Stokes, Paranormal Grocer (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/morrisstokes01.shtml) and Hypochondriac Chuckles with Sheridan Poorly (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/comics/funnystrips/sheridanpoorly01.shtml).

Sheridan could indeed be considered "very poorly".
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6370765.stm

brettDbass

14th March 2007, 05:13 AM

Nero

14th March 2007, 05:37 AM

Can anyone help here.

I've heard report that at least one branch of a certain well-known health food retailer is still selling ‘Fast Formula Horny’ (for men) and ‘Fast Formula Wild Pink’ (for women). As I understand it, these prodcuts had to be totally withdrawn from sale (http://www.drpetra.co.uk/blog/?p=413).

What should be done to address this problem? Where/who do we go to?
Of course, making it known to the public in some fashion may be of interest...

Have a look at the Activism section on Ben Goldacre's Bad Science site:

http://badscience.net/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=fd26c115c2f4c10b000a0b069b41062c

Some good info on how to make complaints to the formal bodies that maybe able to help.

brettDbass

14th March 2007, 06:13 AM

Spiffing, cheers.

Mojo

17th March 2007, 06:29 AM

Can anyone help here.

I've heard report that at least one branch of a certain well-known health food retailer is still selling ‘Fast Formula Horny’ (for men) and ‘Fast Formula Wild Pink’ (for women). As I understand it, these prodcuts had to be totally withdrawn from sale (http://www.drpetra.co.uk/blog/?p=413).

What should be done to address this problem? Where/who do we go to?It was the MHRA (http://www.mhra.gov.uk) that ordered the withdrawal, so I assume they're the ones to complain to.