"AIDS cure suppressed for about 10 years"

[burnvictim77]

I ran across this in a myspace forum.

It's pretty sweet, and the guy who posted it quickly resorted to using famous quotes about how we should all keep an open mind.

But, check this out:

In 1990, at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, in New York City, scientists (Steve Kaali, M.D., and others) discovered a way to neutralize the HIV virus in vitro (this means the blood is removed or the skin is penetrated). Dr. Bob Beck, a Doctor of Science (scientist), took this BLOOD ELECTRIFICATION technology a step further and developed a device to do the same job, but in vivo (meaning the blood isn't removed or the skin isn't penetrated).

Here is the URL for Bob Beck's lecture notes:

http://www.teslatech.com/beck/

Hats off to Steve Kaali and the others for creating the BLOOD ELECTRIFICATION technology, and to Bob Beck for making it affordable (less than $200). And hats off to the people using this technology to neutralize HIV and many other organism-based diseases.

Here is the URL for one of the places selling the device (if you want to build your own):

http://www.sharinghealth.com/productsrec/bioelectric.html

And here is the schematics for the device:

http://www.sharinghealth.com/site%20map.html

For more information, search the internet for these keywords:

BLOOD ELECTRIFICATION
BECK PROTOCOL

I am a researcher, not a patient, in case anyone is wondering.

BLOOD ELECTRIFICATION technology is one of the cures for HIV that was suppressed for a long time because the people responsible for suppressing the technology thought that money was more important than people, rather than thinking people are more important than money.


The audacity of some charlatans...

[TheGline]

"Blood Electrification" sounds like a discarded White Zombie song title.

[Luke T.]

Same story at this site: http://educate-yourself.org/be/

Find the error:

1. In order to obtain a patent from the United States Patent Office, Kaali and Schwolsky had to prove that the device works as claimed. Lacking solid proof, US patents are simply not granted.

2. Very often it takes years to obtain a patent, yet this patent was granted in only nine months; a further indication to me of the strength of their demonstrated claims

All kinds of whacky ideas were tried in the 90s to treat AIDS. We took my brother down to Atlanta when we heard about a similar experimental treatment. The doctor's idea was to heat the patient's blood to about 115 degrees and kill the AIDS virus that way. He was looking for human guinea pigs on which to try it out.

He turned my brother down on the basis that my brother was still living a self-destructive lifestyle. The doc told my brother flatly that he wasn't going to save his life just to have him go and kill himself again.

The last I heard, the doc eventually ended up doing his experiments in Mexico due to the hazardous nature of his idea not being approved in the U.S. The experiment was a failure, of course. 115 degrees kills a lot more than the AIDS virus.

My brother died January 25, 1993 of complications from AIDS.

So I have a special place of scorn in my heart for these jackasses selling this electrical sham.

[Luke T.]

Also, the radio frequency crap discussed in the link I posted is typical hogwash from a branch of the homeopathic crowd.

[logical muse]

My brother died January 25, 1993 of complications from AIDS.

So I have a special place of scorn in my heart for these jackasses selling this electrical sham.

Luke, so sorry about your brother. It reminds us of why we need to expose these charlatans.

[burnvictim77]

Luke, so sorry about your brother. It reminds us of why we need to expose these charlatans.


Absolutely. The false hope that people find ways to profit from is simply shameful.

[valis]

There was also the hydrogen peroxide cure that was heavily touted in the nineties. I heard Eustace Mullins endorse that and disclose how the evil gubnit was hushing it up.

Not too much later I saw a mainstream story saying some govt. hospital, I think it was a Navy hospital, had studied it and found it did not work.

Now I have zero medical knowledge but every time I hear about a miracle aids cure it seems to be based on being able to kill aids in a test tube. Well from a common sense stand point maybe putting the aids virus in a test tube full of gasoline will kill it. So all we have to do is start injecting people with large amounts of gasoline....

I have heard several of these people speak and it always revolves around some way to kill the virus outside the human body. While I can see where that might be a good place to start you surely will find things that work outside the body that could not be done inside it? Or so I would think.

[Slimething]

In vivo means "in life". That is, the treatment works in the biological entity. In vitro means "in glass", meaning that the process works in test tubes, Petri dishes, slides, etc. These terms have nothing to do with blood removal or skin penetration (Drugs work in vivo regardless of the method of introduction.) Don't trust anyone who doesn't know the nomenclature.

And, Luke T., life sometimes just sucks. Sorry.

[burnvictim77]

In vivo means "in life". That is, the treatment works in the biological entity. In vitro means "in glass", meaning that the process works in test tubes, Petri dishes, slides, etc. These terms have nothing to do with blood removal or skin penetration (Drugs work in vivo regardless of the method of introduction.) Don't trust anyone who doesn't know the nomenclature.

And, Luke T., life sometimes just sucks. Sorry.


In vivo, as opposed to taking the blood out to heat it outside the boody, as in the previous procedure. That doesn't make it any less quackery, but he was using the term the correctly.

[KingMerv00]

Luke says "Find the error"


1. In order to obtain a patent from the United States Patent Office, Kaali and Schwolsky had to prove that the device works as claimed. Lacking solid proof, US patents are simply not granted.

The United States patent office does not have the time, personel, or expertise to determine the efficacy of medical treatments. That is the job of the FDA. Patents are a federally enforced monopoly...nothing else.

[Slimething]

In vivo, as opposed to taking the blood out to heat it outside the boody, as in the previous procedure. That doesn't make it any less quackery, but he was using the term the correctly.

I'm not sure, burnv. I"m a chemist and may be too used to thinking of in vitro as in isolated test tubes so I'm unfamiliar about the middlin' things like whether or not dialysis or heart-lung machines are considered in vivo or in vitro. I'll give the point as I've not run across anything in my travels that identifies it as one or the other. :o

Still anyone who forgets that proteins are more fragile than viruses sure would be surprised at what this treatment really accomplished.

[burnvictim77]

I'm not sure, burnv. I"m a chemist and may be too used to thinking of in vitro as in isolated test tubes so I'm unfamiliar about the middlin' things like whether or not dialysis or heart-lung machines are considered in vivo or in vitro.

I'm not sure either, but this could be a false dichotomy. There may be an entirely different name for these kind of processes: ex vivo? Heck if I know.

[Capsid]

I'm not sure either, but this could be a false dichotomy. There may be an entirely different name for these kind of processes: ex vivo? Heck if I know.
Hey good guess! Ex vivo is the correct term.

[Luke T.]

Luke says "Find the error"



The United States patent office does not have the time, personel, or expertise to determine the efficacy of medical treatments.

Bingo.

As for the second part about them getting the patent in only nine months, I recall that there was a great hue and cry in the 90s to put potential cures and treatments for AIDS on the fast-track for approval.

And the government was hesitant to do so precisely because some of the "cures" might be worse than the disease.

[Miss Anthrope]

Same story at this site: http://educate-yourself.org/be/

Find the error:



All kinds of whacky ideas were tried in the 90s to treat AIDS. We took my brother down to Atlanta when we heard about a similar experimental treatment. The doctor's idea was to heat the patient's blood to about 115 degrees and kill the AIDS virus that way. He was looking for human guinea pigs on which to try it out.

He turned my brother down on the basis that my brother was still living a self-destructive lifestyle. The doc told my brother flatly that he wasn't going to save his life just to have him go and kill himself again.

The last I heard, the doc eventually ended up doing his experiments in Mexico due to the hazardous nature of his idea not being approved in the U.S. The experiment was a failure, of course. 115 degrees kills a lot more than the AIDS virus.

My brother died January 25, 1993 of complications from AIDS.

So I have a special place of scorn in my heart for these jackasses selling this electrical sham.

I'm so sorry. My brother died in 1996, after living with the virus for fifteen years. I remember vividly reading the letter with my mother when I was in the fifth grade, trying to understand what this disease was.

When he died, luckily it was in Seattle at Harborview, where "lifestyle" had no bearing. (I cannot imagine your grief in that situation) He declined abnormally rapidly with the complication of PCP in the brain (the degeneration, not the drug). His brain was used to further AIDS research. Reading the medical records of his last 48 hours were gut-wrenching, to say the least.

My oldest and dearest friend, who is has now moved from HIV infection to the beginning of the end, has tried all manner of this woo. He still believes in it, and tries everything. I stay quiet in my skepticism, only because it is not I who faces a fast approaching, unpleasant end with such certainty and foreknowledge.

Scams like these are absolutely disgusting. To prey on the terminally ill is the lowest of low. Unfortunately an atheist lacks the comfort of a hell for folks like this to burn in.

[Luke T.]

I'm so sorry. My brother died in 1996, after living with the virus for fifteen years. I remember vividly reading the letter with my mother when I was in the fifth grade, trying to understand what this disease was.

When he died, luckily it was in Seattle at Harborview, where "lifestyle" had no bearing. (I cannot imagine your grief in that situation) He declined abnormally rapidly with the complication of PCP in the brain (the degeneration, not the drug). His brain was used to further AIDS research. Reading the medical records of his last 48 hours were gut-wrenching, to say the least.

My brother was an IV drug abuser. I wrote a little bit about him on another forum:

Late 1992. Yale New Haven Hospital. Around two in the morning.

I have driven all night up from Norfolk, Virginia. My brother is hospitalized once again with complications from AIDS. I planned on just driving to my parents' house and seeing my brother in the morning, but I changed my mind. I violate visiting hours and sneak into his room.

My brother is asleep. A hospital bedspread is over him. The lights are out but I can see him by moonlight. He is in the fetal position. He looks like a badly drawn stick figure. I stand over him for a long time. I think to myself I could probably lift him with one hand.

I've never told him I love him.

How sick was I? How much of a self-centered bastard alcoholic was I? Let me tell you.

My dying brother spent a lot of time in hospitals. He was broke financially, of course. Somehow or other, I learned he wanted a Gameboy to while the hours away during his hospital stays. My brother was not a big reader.

So I buy him one. Eighty bucks. I still remember. Eighty bucks.

I go to the hospital and give it to him. He is very pleased and amazed at my gesture, just the way I expected. He grins from ear to ear. Then he expresses concern to me, because he knows they ain't cheap. Luke T., big spender!

I say, "Just leave it to me in your will." And we laugh.

But I f****** mean it. When you die from this AIDS s***, I want it back. I don't say that out loud.

The following year, when my brother dies, I'm actually waiting for his wife to turn it over to me. I don't ask for the Gameboy. I just expect my brother had left instructions to return it to me. This never happens.

I actually resent this for, like, YEARS!

Fortunately, I was finally able to tell my brother I loved him. Five days before he died.

[Slimething]

Hey good guess! Ex vivo is the correct term.

Learn something new every day. Thanks, capsid! And burnvictim, too! :)

[Expression_man]

So...has anyone had any experience with this?

Where can I find research on the process?

Edit: I see it being talked about but no one is referencing any in-depth studies. Has this been brought up before or are people just commenting for the sake of it?

Has this been debunked or is it still in question?

[Fnord]

I ripped this from Natural Earth (http://www.natural-earth.com/pages/blood_elect.html):


Blood Electrification is a form of natural therapy[1] that aims to promote natural health - it is considered an alternative and natural treatment[1,2] used to enhance a happy and healthy lifestyle.

Zapping the AIDS virus with low voltage electric current can nearly eliminate its ability to infect human white blood cells cultured in the laboratory[3], reports a research team at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City. William D Lyman and his colleagues found that exposure to 50 to 100 microamperes of electricity - comparable to that produced by a cardiac pacemaker - reduced the infectivity of the AIDS virus (HIV) by 50 to 95 percent.

William Lyman and Steven Kaali, who observed that low electric current inactivated the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) patented a device for treating infected blood, which included the idea of implanting an electrical device in the veins of the patient. Robert C. Beck later noticed the required amount of current could be easily driven through bare skin, through electrodes, and used this non-intrusive method as part of the "Beck protocol". He suggested using 4 Hz alternating current.

Proponents now claim that, according to their experience, direct current gives more results than 4 Hz AC. According to their reports, application of a 300 microamperes 6V Direct current is very effective in treating diverse diseases like cancer[4] and diseases caused by bacteria, like tuberculosis, toothaches[5] and other infections. They also have reported drastic reductions in PCR-measured viral load of virus like the HIV and hepatitis-c, and non-measured improvements in diseases like herpes, flu, CFS, and others. Despite those reports, no controlled studies have been performed to evaluate this technique in vivo[6], just in vitro. There is no scientific explication of how it works[7], as each of those conditions involve completely different mechanisms.

The use of microcurrents against pathogens is not FDA-approved[8] and sounds remarkly like quackery. Proponents have conspiratory theories, alleging that home-making “such a device is so simple that there could be no economical interest in funding more expensive research” about this, and “it could disrupt the pharmaceutical industry.” Besides that, there would be no money for the press-releases needed to make it known. In fact, almost nothing was heard in the media about those studies, and few groups had the interest to try to reproduce them, even though they are extremely easy to reproduce[9].

[1] – “Natural” therapies do not use technology, and vice-versa.
[2] – “Alternative” treatments do not involve medically scientific protocols to determine efficacy, but rather rely on the patient’s subjective feelings of well-being to determine the “success” of the treatment.
[3] – “In Vitro” cultures, to be precise. These leukocytes were grown in a laboratory, and tested in glassware vessels, not in human bodies. The results are therefore, irrelevant.
[4] – “Cancer” is more than one disease. There are several different virii that cause their respective cancers.
[5] – “Toothache” is a symptom, not a disease, and can be caused by a mis-aligned jaw, a cracked tooth, or piece of foil on a silver filling.
[6] – “No controlled studies … in vivo” means that the reports of in vivo success are largely anecdotal.
[7] – “No scientific explication…” means that science and the scientific method are not involved in any explanations of the mechanism or causal chain of events that lead to alleged cures.
[8] – “Not FDA-approved.” The FDA approves drugs and treatments only after a long, drawn-out process involving duplication of effort and results, as well as peer-group review.
[9] – “Conspiratory theories…” I think they mean “Conspiracy Theories,” especially those concerning alleged government plots to permit the pharmaceutical industry to maintain its monopoly on public health.

There is no proof that blood electrification provides any benefit -- there are only apocryphal anecdotes ("Urban Legends") and personal testimonies ("Rumors") to back up any claims of the efficacy of blood electrification treatments.

May as well drink eight glasses of magnetic water each day... :mad:

[Expression_man]

I'm not bothered about the explanation or the terminology, people can be misled by such things. If the process itself provides results then surely it's worth looking into. Urban legends come about due to all sorts of reasons, that doesn't make them unworthy of investigation. As it seems rather inexpensive to test I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find a record of someone attempting to duplicate anything involved with it.

[Capsid]

This therapy fails to take into account that HIV integrates into the host DNA as a provirus. How can electrification destroy the provirus? It would mean destroying every cell that contains it. The in vitro studies merely zap the free virus.

[Fnord]

"... If the process itself provides results then surely it's worth looking into. ... As it seems rather inexpensive to test I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find a record of someone attempting to duplicate anything involved with it.

Expression_man:

1) The process does not work as advertised!

2) The records of duplicative efforts do not exist because the process does not work!

It's quackery. This means that there is every reason to suggest that the process does not work, in spite of all the anecdotal 'evidence' to the contrary and the gullibility of fools.

Did I mention that the process does not work?

[Anders W. Bonde]

This sCAM looks pretty much like that of Hulda Clark.

Luke T.,

It's people like you and Fowlsound that give me hope for the human race - people who chose a rational, effective approach to survival when really up against it, rather than succumbing to the comfort of sCAM and religious nonsense as happens all too frequently. Kudos to you.

[Expression_man]

Were that the case then I'd expect to see documentation of at least one thorough experiment debunking the idea (maybe such a document exists somewhere but I haven't found it as of yet). Until it's put into practical experimentation everything in defense or opposition of it can only be based on anecdotes and theory.

You say it doesn't work.
He says it works.

Solution: Test

Edit: The only documentation I can find, regarding experimentation, seems to support the idea.

[burnvictim77]

Were that the case then I'd expect to see documentation of at least one thorough experiment debunking the idea (maybe such a document exists somewhere but I haven't found it as of yet). Until it's put into practical experimentation everything in defense or opposition of it can only be based on anecdotes and theory.

You say it doesn't work.
He says it works.

Solution: Test

Edit: The only documentation I can find, regarding experimentation, seems to support the idea.


Expression man:

If you inject bleach into your veinss, 1 cc, every two hours, for 3 weeks, this will cure your AIDS. Now, go prove me wrong. Because I've got plenty of data to indicate it works.

[Expression_man]

Expression man:

If you inject bleach into your views, 1 cc, every two hours, for 3 weeks, this will cure your AIDS. Now, go prove me wrong. Because I've got plenty of data to indicate it works.

1.) I don't have AIDS.

2.) What you describe would end up killing anyone who tried.

3.) That was a **** poor example.

4.) Where is your evidence?

[Fnord]

Expression man:

Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence. YOU claim that Blood Electrification works to cure AIDS, so YOU must provide the proof. Provide a link to your "evidence." We will examine it, and show you where it is in error.

I suggest that you study the articles at the end of these links:

Fallacies of Reason (http://nobeliefs.com/fallacies.htm) (Especially "Appeal to Ignorance")

How To Bash Pseudoscience (http://www.tinaja.com/glib/bashpseu.pdf)


-Fnord-

[Expression_man]

What is this?

Half the people here have already presupposed a conclusion, it's that simple. It is clear that none of you are interested in tests or verification of any sort. Rather than getting down to testing anything you would rather try to poke holes in something you haven't seen in action.

No, no, **** this. I'm not representing anything. I'll certainly do my own research but I'm not about to get into a pointless argument. It's obvious what you're trying to do here. I wanted to see what people had to offer in regards to debunking the claims based on previously documented experiments but it's now clear that no one has anything to offer.

Right, that's all I wanted to know.

Edit: I'm out of this thread until someone posts something interesting regarding the original claims.

[burnvictim77]

What is this?

Half the people here have already presupposed a conclusion, it's that simple. It is clear that none of you are interested in tests or verification of any sort. Rather than getting down to testing anything you would rather try to poke holes in something you haven't seen in action.

No, no, **** this. I'm not representing anything. I'll certainly do my own research but I'm not about to get into a pointless argument. It's obvious what you're trying to do here. I wanted to see what people had to offer in regards to debunking the claims based on previously documented experiments but it's now clear that no one has anything to offer.

Right, that's all I wanted to know.

Edit: I'm out of this thread until someone posts something interesting regarding the original claims.


We all know enough about the actual science at hand to know this type of treatment cannot be effictive. It cannot do what it claims. Everyday, a quack can contrive a new miracle cure. Must I investigate every single one by doing a clinical test to know that they are still quacks? Or can I look at their claims and see how they make no sense?

[burnvictim77]

1.) I don't have AIDS.

2.) What you describe would end up killing anyone who tried.

3.) That was a **** poor example.

4.) Where is your evidence?


It's okay, I've got another miracle cure for you. Find someone with AIDS or any other viral infection. Rub a potato on their genitals. Burry it in the moonlight. Do this every night until the infection goes away. Guaranteed.

Where is YOUR evidence that it doesn't work?

[skeptigirl]

Luke says "Find the error"



The United States patent office does not have the time, personel, or expertise to determine the efficacy of medical treatments. That is the job of the FDA. Patents are a federally enforced monopoly...nothing else.This post points out an all too frequent myth, that patents are only granted for inventions that work, and that patented medical devices means working devices.

Whether something is a drug or a medical device, the manufacturer must present sufficient evidence to the FDA that it does what is claimed and is safe. The patent just keeps other people from producing copy cats infringing on profits.

[bruto]

What is this?

Half the people here have already presupposed a conclusion, it's that simple. It is clear that none of you are interested in tests or verification of any sort. Rather than getting down to testing anything you would rather try to poke holes in something you haven't seen in action.

No, no, **** this. I'm not representing anything. I'll certainly do my own research but I'm not about to get into a pointless argument. It's obvious what you're trying to do here. I wanted to see what people had to offer in regards to debunking the claims based on previously documented experiments but it's now clear that no one has anything to offer.

Right, that's all I wanted to know.

Edit: I'm out of this thread until someone posts something interesting regarding the original claims.

Expression man, you think the 'bleach in veins" analogy is preposterous, but why? You think so because even without much medical knowledge you can tell that this is a stupid idea and it will not work. Imagine, now, that you are a specialist in blood and viruses, and know a lot about these things, much more than you or I know. If to all of those people, the blood electrification routine looks as preposterous as bleach in the veins does to us, why on earth would they bother to do a test to debunk it? If it's bunk in ways that are open and obvious, it need not be debunked in detail. What you're suggesting here is that every unconventional claim that comes out of left field should be taken as a serious alternative until someone disproves it, no matter how seriously it violates know scientific principles. But if the people who developed blood electrification had found an actual cure that works, they would have the results, they would have the verification, and they could easily submit them for peer review and scrutiny. If they were doing serious science, worthy of serious review, the results you seek would be there for you to see - done by them.

[Expression_man]

You think so because even without much medical knowledge you can tell that this is a stupid idea and it will not work. Imagine, now, that you are a specialist in blood and viruses, and know a lot about these things, much more than you or I know. If to all of those people, the blood electrification routine looks as preposterous as bleach in the veins does to us, why on earth would they bother to do a test to debunk it? If it's bunk in ways that are open and obvious, it need not be debunked in detail. What you're suggesting here is that every unconventional claim that comes out of left field should be taken as a serious alternative until someone disproves it, no matter how seriously it violates know scientific principles.

Not at all. The technology has multiple patents on it and while they're in question it's still worth investigating if only to clear up the misconceptions involved with them.

Bleach and spuds, wtf are you people talking about?

[Questioninggeller]

In Randi's book "The Faith Healers," he refers to stories of Pat Robertson claiming to cure people's AIDS. Here we are 20 years later and Robertson is a very respected/powerful man among the right.

[Capsid]

Not at all. The technology has multiple patents on it and while they're in question it's still worth investigating if only to clear up the misconceptions involved with them.

Bleach and spuds, wtf are you people talking about?
Then it's up to the patentees to do the work to support the concept. If it's worth doing why haven't they provided the evidence?

[NeilC]

Not at all. The technology has multiple patents on it and while they're in question it's still worth investigating if only to clear up the misconceptions involved with them.

Bleach and spuds, wtf are you people talking about?

The reason people mention bleach and spuds is to demonstrate how anyone can make a claim and how some claims are so obviously wrong that the default stance on them is disbelief. I'm sure you default to disbelief about the potato cure and rightly so. This is because you know enough about biology to know that such a cure is extremely unlikely and not worthy of serious investigation. There is no reason to believe it would work and every reason to believe you are wasting your time. To people who know a lot more about biology than you, claims that might seem possible to you are equally far-fetched. Therefore if someone has a such a claim it is up to them to provide evidence to support it.

The patenting of an idea says nothing of it's validity so I think it would be apt to eliminate that from the discussion.

[skeptigirl]

I'll tell you why I can discard this crap out of hand. Because of this statement:

"BLOOD ELECTRIFICATION technology is one of the cures for HIV that was suppressed for a long time because the people responsible for suppressing the technology thought that money was more important than people, rather than thinking people are more important than money."

There are thousands of researchers who would pursue this technology if it had any evidence of effectiveness, and the only money that would matter would be the money from donations to do the research and that would have been pouring in. You would have to be an idiot to not notice how many people are building careers, not fortunes researching medicine and HIV-AIDS has no shortage of interested researchers.

[bruto]

Not at all. The technology has multiple patents on it and while they're in question it's still worth investigating if only to clear up the misconceptions involved with them.

Bleach and spuds, wtf are you people talking about?

You seem to have missed my point, so I hope you read (and re-read if necessary) Splossy's response above too. Bleach and spuds were brought up because anybody reasonable and sane can see that they're silly, and would consider it reasonable to dismiss them out of hand without wasting time on further testing. The fact that you or I may lack the medical knowledge to evaluate blood electrification out of hand does not change the fact that people who do have the medical knowledge appear to consider it as unpromising as bleach and spuds.

A patent does not make anything worth investigating if the thing appears to a reasonable and knowledgeable person as worthless. If you think patents make something workable, useful or reasonable, you're not only mistaken, but missing a treasure trove of humor. Do some searching on the internet some time for weird and silly patents.

The idea that the idea was suppressed because of corporate greed or cabal is common conspiracy theory crap. If someone could find, and patent, a cure for aids that actually worked, they could make a fortune even if they could cure it in a single visit for a dollar a pop; they'd be heroes and they'd almost certainly win a Nobel Prize in the bargain. The idea that nobody in the world is willing to take up and implement an actual, workable cure is silly. After all, the people who developed it could be doing that right now. If they got results that could stand up to peer review, they'd have it made no matter how strange and unconventional the treatment appears.

It's obvious from the material we've seen here on this thread that it was not suppressed. It was dismissed, and that's a very different thing.

[Fnord]

"... It is clear that none of you are interested in tests or verification of any sort. Rather than getting down to testing anything you would rather try to poke holes in something you haven't seen in action."

Do your tests. But first, get a degree in biology, immunology, and/or medical science. Then read up on the "Double Blind" method. Be sure to submit your research to a reputable publication for peer-group review. Expect to be derided and ridiculed. And if you receive the Nobel Prize, it will be posthumously awarded.

"I'm out of this thread until someone posts something interesting regarding the original claims."

Yay!

[Luke T.]

1.) 2.) What you describe would end up killing anyone who tried.

The reason the bleach and spuds examples were provided was because you seemed incapable of understanding why the electrical cure for AIDS was ridiculous, so they dumbed it down for you. The electrical cure would also kill anyone who tried it. See?

3.) That was a **** poor example.

And so is the electrical cure for AIDS.

4.) Where is your evidence?

The very question you should be asking about the electrical cure. Where are the cured patients?

[Expression_man]

The very question you should be asking about the electrical cure. Where are the cured patients?

Don't talk rubbish. All I've ever asked for in this thread is evidence. Of course I'm looking into it. What makes you think the topic is up for a balanced discussion though?

This entire thread is a waste of time.

[Luke T.]

Don't talk rubbish. All I've ever asked for in this thread is evidence.

Evidence of what? We aren't making any claims. We are saying the claim that is made is bogus and has nothing to support it.

But even so, evidence that it is bogus has been provided. I'm sorry if it offends you that the claim of an electrical cure for AIDS is bogus, but sometimes the truth really sucks. Don't you think I wanted the proposed cure for my brother to work? Don't you think my brother wanted it to work? You think WE would have suppressed it if it really worked?

People who offer bogus cures are part of the problem, Expression Man. They offer false hope, time wasting diversions, and confusion. And you attack US for pointing them out?

Of course I'm looking into it. What makes you think the topic is up for a balanced discussion though?

This entire thread is a waste of time.

No, it isn't. It alerts people to a bogus treatment.

Some things don't deserve balance. They deserve nothing but scorn. This is one of those things.

[fls]

Don't talk rubbish. All I've ever asked for in this thread is evidence. Of course I'm looking into it. What makes you think the topic is up for a balanced discussion though?

This entire thread is a waste of time.

I'd be interested in seeing evidence as well. I see these claims made all the time - that the pharmaceutical companies can interfere with the actions of private individuals to such a degree that we can be prevented from hearing about quite amazing discoveries, that in vitro effects can be assumed to translate to in vivo effects (let's make it easier and set the bar at more than one time in ten), that simple controlled trials are prohibitively expensive to run, that physicians are not interested in using treatments that accomplish exactly what physicians spend all their time hoping to accomplish, etc.

Normally, we find out about effective treatments because evidence for their benefit is forthcoming, while those without benefit fall by the wayside. So if something that has fallen by the wayside wants to make claims that lack of evidence in their case is due to extraordinary circumstances, I sure wouldn't mind seeing some evidence that these extraordinary circumstances are actually real.

Linda

[bruto]

I'm reminded in this thread of the spams I used to get for a while for "the forbidden CD," that supposedly contained programs that were not available. Or those books you still see with titles like "12 thousand secrets they don't want you to know." And yet, there they are. For suppressed information, it sure does get around.

If the big bad drug company conspiracy were as big and bad and conspiratorial as some people would like us to believe, this thread would not exist.

[Fnord]

Don't talk rubbish. All I've ever asked for in this thread is evidence. Of course I'm looking into it.

Then provide the evidence. We've done our research and found any claims of a cure with Blood Electrification to be bogus.

What makes you think the topic is up for a balanced discussion though?

This topic is open for balanced discussion. Unfortunately, there is no clinical proof of en vivo efficacy to provide that balance.

The claim is "Blood Electrification Cures Aids." The claim lacks evidence. It is an extraordinary claim, nonetheless. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. Provide the proof and the claim is validated. Sufficient proof would be that a former AIDS patient has been cured by Blood Electrification, backed up with substantiated records and repeatable results. Lack of sufficient proof is failure to prove the claim.

Proof of claim is all we ask.

This entire thread is a waste of time.

Then, as the saying goes, "Put up or shut up!"

[bruto]

Expression man: here's another patented medical procedure for whose inexcusable suppression we might also blame the cupidity of big pharma. I mean, it's patented, right? It must be worth something, right?

Digital analysis of illness (http://www.bpmlegal.com/wfinger.html)

[Gilmar]

And gee, if it can cure AIDS, then it can probably cure a whole bunch of other blood-borne viral illnesses. It should be really easy for the proponents to test its effectiveness on something much less nasty. AFAIK, we have nothing that kills viruses -- antibiotics only work on bacteria and the like. It would be an amazing breakthrough!

[skeptigirl]

And gee, if it can cure AIDS, then it can probably cure a whole bunch of other blood-borne viral illnesses. It should be really easy for the proponents to test its effectiveness on something much less nasty. AFAIK, we have nothing that kills viruses -- antibiotics only work on bacteria and the like. It would be an amazing breakthrough!Actually, we have a lot of antiviral drugs. Not all viral infections are curable though.

[gfunkusarelius]

am i missing something? i didn't read thru the original links too throughly, but i thought the point was that those pages showed you where to purchase the device or how to build your own. doesn't that mean that:
a) the secret is out, so this repression of info is no longer an excuse for why there are no armies of healed patients and
b) due to the first point, if only a few people with aids actually tried these implements and methods and had any success at all, it would spread like wildfire thru the community and this discussion would be inundated in a matter of hours with people saying "don't listen to them, this cured [insert loved one here]"

[Fnord]

... doesn't that mean that:
a) the secret is out, so this repression of info is no longer an excuse for why there are no armies of healed patients and
b) due to the first point, if only a few people with aids actually tried these implements and methods and had any success at all, it would spread like wildfire thru the community and this discussion would be inundated in a matter of hours with people saying "don't listen to them, this cured [insert loved one here]"

Exactly.

First, I just now Googled the phrase "Blood Electrification" and received 622 hits. Then, as a control measure, I Googled my real name and received only 7 hits. There is no supression of "Blood Electrification," either its principles or its mechanism.

Second, I have found no person who has been cured of AIDS with this device. No, not one. Such a cure -- one that is both effective and inexpensive -- would by now have eliminated AIDS in all but the most remote regions in third-world countries.

Blood Electrification does not cure AIDS. It's just that simple.

[Fnord]

Oh, something else...

I've looked into the schematic and principles (http://www.sharinghealth.com/beckprotocol/buildyourown.html) of these devices, and even built one. Sure, it produces a 4-Hertz square wave with an amplitude of about 26 volts peak-to-peak. But, so what?

The woo comes in when the designers claim that the device's output is precisely one-half of the Earth's resonant frquency of "7.826 Hz."

Google "Schumann Wave" and look for the articles by Mark Barner (http://home22.inet.tele.dk/hightower/octave3.htm). Here is a quote from one of them:


"There has been a lot of misleading information regarding the value of the 'Schumann Wave.' There is no one specific value for it, due to the ever-changing nature of the Earth's ionosphere. Conclusion: Any modal frequency of the 'Schumann Wave' phenomenon may vary by as much as 22.5% (or more) over an arbitrary span of time. This is due to changes in the minimum and maximum height of the ionosphere, it's composition and it's thickness. Note also that beyond the 4th modal harmonic, all wavebands will increasingly overlap. Therefore, to declare the value of 7.83 Hz as the 'absolute, correct and only Schumann Wave' frequency is to commit an error."



First of all, a 22.5% variation in the "Earth's Resonant Frequency" means that 4 Hz is one arbitrary value chosen from a range of values (3.55 Hz to 4.45 Hz).

Second, the frequency that most woo people accept as the Schumann Wave is 7.826 Hz

(This is because the US power line frequency of 60 Hz, multiplied by 3, and then divided by 23 equals 7.8260869565217391304347826086957 Hz. This is one of the "Magic Numbers" of woo.)

Divide 7.826 Hz by 2, and you get 3.913 Hz, NOT 4.000 Hz (although both values do fall within the 22.5% range.)

My Point?

These "Blood Electrification" devices rely on alleged relationships between the protein coat of an AIDS virus, the number 23, the American power line frequency, and random fluctuations in the Earth's ionosphere.

May as well wave a dead chicken over an AIDS patient while shouting "OOGA-BOOGA!"

The Blood Electrification devices are a waste of time, money, and hope.

[Belz...]

Not at all. The technology has multiple patents on it and while they're in question it's still worth investigating if only to clear up the misconceptions involved with them.

Bleach and spuds, wtf are you people talking about?

You're not very good at this, are you ?




The critical thinking, I mean.

[Fnord]

The more I look into this crap, the more I find.

According to the "Foremost Website on the Beck Protocols (http://www.sharinghealth.com/beckprotocol/faq.html)" Mr. Beck, the namesake and originator of the "Beck Protocols," is dead. He died in July of 2002.

I'm trying to find out what he died of, and why his own protocols were useless in saving him.

[Luke T.]

Oh, something else...

I've looked into the schematic and principles (http://www.sharinghealth.com/beckprotocol/buildyourown.html) of these devices, and even built one. Sure, it produces a 4-Hertz square wave with an amplitude of about 26 volts peak-to-peak. But, so what?

See post 4 of this topic.

[Luke T.]

The more I look into this crap, the more I find.

According to the "Foremost Website on the Beck Protocols (http://www.sharinghealth.com/beckprotocol/faq.html)" Mr. Beck, the namesake and originator of the "Beck Protocols," is dead. He died in July of 2002.

I'm trying to find out what he died of, and why his own protocols were useless in saving him.

It's like the way "The Secret" crowd says Einstein, Newton, Da Vinci all used it (The Secret).

A lot of sham artists add the names of famous dead people onto their products like so many Post-It Notes. Some sort of after-death testimonial endorsement horses**t.

Could be this guy Beck knew his procedure didn't work and would not support what is being done in his name.

The doctor who we took my brother to see found that his idea didn't work either, and he walked away from it, like any good scientist would from a failed hypothesis that didn't bear up.

ETA: Reading the link, it sounds like Beck would support what is being done in his name. Art Bell? This was his way of getting the word out? Not JAMA?

[Fnord]

See post 4 of this topic.

Yeah ... I thought it'd help to elaborate, and provide a real-world reference or two.

[Slimething]

I'm trying to find out what he died of, and why his own protocols were useless in saving him.

I tried that too. Despite the great number of sites praising this guy, I couldn't find a ghost of a hint as to what did the geezer in. I believe this information is being suppressed! :biggrin:

[Slimething]

Reading the link, it sounds like Beck would support what is being done in his name. Art Bell? This was his way of getting the word out? Not JAMA?

Quoting from one of the links in the OP:

...we had some very uncomfortable full-blown AIDS patients while they were detoxifying. All are now completely well and symptom free.

He had "various" AIDS patients which, to my simple mind, means at least two test subjects. Saved from the ravages of AIDS, no less, by ingesting a concoction containing a known carcinogen (ozone) both orally and rectally. Maybe he didn't publish because the patients died of soft-tissue pathology soon afterwards? :confused: Frankly, the account can only be construed by anyone with even fleeting knowledge of human physiology as pure hokum.

[skeptigirl]

I tried that too. Despite the great number of sites praising this guy, I couldn't find a ghost of a hint as to what did the geezer in. I believe this information is being suppressed! :biggrin:
Born 1925, died 2002, age 77. From the descriptions here, I'd say the guy was overweight and quite immobile then got sicker and sicker, probably from one thing after another, until he died. From the sound of things you really have to wonder why none of this guy's believers noticed the stuff didn't exactly work on him.

From a "friend's" website: (http://www.bobbeck.com/)...he did have a long illness which kept him in bed for a long period of time...


INFIRMITY FOR A WHILE…A nurse friend from San Diego came and took care of him for part of that time, and I can only imagine that it was extremely stressful for her to live with his rigid requirements and discomfort. I met her. It seemed to me that she avoided speaking to him, or being anywhere near him. He had the good grace to speak well of her. He also had a friend who stayed with him and took care of chores. His friend later ended up in prison for murder, of which everyone I talked to though he was innocent.

A close friend of his, who is an engineer for a major aerospace company, got the company alternative therapy lady to come see him, burned some sage on a cookie sheet at the foot of his bed (it may have been more complicated, but that’s how he described it), and even though it was quite painful, he came out of it immediately.

It left him with the bad knees. He could pretty much walk to the car, drive, and walk into the restaurant for breakfast (and lunch and dinner), but that was all. He didn’t like to drive any distance, like to Pasadena, so I drove him there for the alternative health events. He had another friend who had given him a lot of help on another project, who strongly recommended exercise even if it had to be artificially administered with electrodes at the top and bottom of the muscles on the inner thigh (the ones that go first and are the hardest to get back), but as cheaply as this friend could have helped him, as convenient as he could have made it, and as much as it would have helped him, he refused, preferring to hobble uncomfortably from apartment to car to restaurant

He used a Hoby-Cart when he went to swap meets and alternative health events, but did not take it on the airplane to the Science Congress...

In the last six months or so that I lived with him, I pretty much collected all the bills and paid them as we went along, including the hospital bills, mostly without mentioning it to him. (Although I can tell you that if you have a big hospital bill, and offer to pay it in cash, they will probably give you as much as a 50% discount.)....

HIATAL HERNIA…He had a hiatal hernia, and was not able to keep anything down. One of his “Black Boxes” seemed to be helping him lose weight, a life-long struggle for him. If he hadn’t gotten Botox treatments for the hiatal hernia, he would have spent more of his last few years very uncomfortably. These Botox treatments were at least six months apart. He thought the “Black Box” was helping him lose weight, and I’m sure it was good for his health, but it was the Hiatal Hernia that was really making him way too thin. Everything he ate or drank came right back up!....

Here's more evidence of the genius of this guy. :rolleyes:BOOSTING THE IQ—II It is reputed, and I can e-mail a copy of the paper on the subject, to cure the symptoms of drug addiction, depression, and migraines, among other things. I found that within five days after starting to use it, I no longer wanted chocolate, and the prickly stress pains in my stomach disappeared. I eat chocolate now, but those pains never came back. I also found that people started remarking that I must be a genius. I didn’t think anything of it, until Bob told me about the experiments they ran on college students six weeks before the final exam in their physics class, along with IQ tests before 3 weeks of the brain tuner and 6 weeks after, at the time of the final exam. It improves something, maybe comprehension, maybe IQ. Bob and I discussed it, and it is one of the things we agreed on about human knowledge and intelligence: NO MATTER WHAT THE TREATMENT OR THEORY, THERE MAY BE A DIFFERENT REASON FOR IT THAN THE ONE CURRENTLY BELIEVED. (See what is currently happening in Quantum Physics!) IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THE BRAIN TUNER WAS JUST KILLING GERMS AND VIRUSES, ALTHOUGH THE USUAL EXPLANATION IS THAT IT IS NORMALIZING BRAIN WAVES WITH A SQUARE WAVE, and making more neural connections. Bob and I felt that this applied equally to the other “Black Boxes” such as the one with the electrodes on the wrist for AIDS (curing the symptoms of 40 diseases we don’t even know are there yet!). There are bioelectric names for each, but I will talk about them generally as “Black Boxes” and specifically for what each one does that can legally be claimed (like preserving plants and stimulating their growth) and for what it may do for me specifically, or for people I know.

A NEW LEASE ON LIFE…FOR BOB AND FOR THE AIDS PATIENTS…When Bob got his teeth into the AIDS—HIV issue, it gave a great deal of direction and purpose to the last 10 or 12 years of his life. And couldn’t we all use that! He was retired from Color Lab, but it had to feel pretty important and distinctly worthwhile to realize intuitively, when he read about someone at Albert Einstein College removing blood from an AIDS patient, running a current through it to kill the virus (and any other germs, including 40 we may not even know about), and returning the blood to the patient, THAT IT WAS A SHORT STEP FROM THAT TO USING ELECTRODES ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BODY OVER TWO VESSELS ON THE ANKLE OR THE WRIST FOR 20 MINUTES OR MORE A DAY, TO KILL THE VIRUS!

Here's a whole list (http://www.bobbeck.com/BobBeck/index.htm) of things that didn't keep ol' Bob very healthy.

[bruto]

It's powerful science indeed that can not only remove viruses without apparently knowing whether they exist, but even count the number! Hats off, gentlemen! A genius.