Consciousness and Memory

[Loki]

From here (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=117&art_id=qw1057753440885B225&set_id=1)

Terry Wallis, who had been in a coma since a 1984 car accident, regained consciousness last month to the surprise of doctors and the delight of his family, including his mother, who heard his first word in 19 years.
...
Terry's father, Jerry Wallis, said his son talked almost non-stop now but it seemed as though time stopped for him after the crash.

Terry still believes Ronald Reagan is the US president.

Terry has asked to speak to his grandmother, who died several years ago, and even recited her phone number - something everyone else in the family had forgotten.
Doesn't the fact that a brain 'on hold' for 19 years can 'start up' again as if the 19 years had not occurred seem to point towards the conclusion that the "physical" aspects of being human dominate our consciousness? To this guy, it still feels like 1984!! If we try to place this data into the Idealist model of 'brain' as 'receiver' of a consciousness broadcast, doesn't this seem to indicate that when the receiver went off line, so did the broadcast? Even more telling, when the reciever came back on 19 years later, the broadcast just resumed from where it left off!
This guy still thinks of himself as a 19 year old, not a 39 year old.

[SquishyDave]

This is why I always insist if I am a veggie my family leave me plugged in :)

To those of use who think the brain is where our "ME" lives, then this is confirmation, if you believe your "ME" lives in the soul then this does nothing to sway that. You could just say the soul got no new memories while the brain was outta comission, so you know.

You forgot to mention that the article is full of wooisms though. :)

His mother, Angilee Wallis, called her son's return to consciousness 'a miracle'
Wonderful and unlikely yes, but divine intervention?
"It's kind of peculiar. He wrecked on Friday the 13th and 19 years later he started talking on Friday the 13th,"
Yes, a nice little co-inky-dink, nothing more.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

I've not been able to figure out where memory is in the idealist model. I think it was Win who claimed that memory was in the brain, not the mind. Anyway, if it is in the brain, that might explain things, sort of. Ian?

~~ Paul

[hammegk]

An idealist could conclude that memory/ego/id/etc all reside in what we perceive as "brain".

That would not be *I*, just *me*..... ;)

[whitefork]

Terry still believes Ronald Reagan is the US president.Terry may be onto something here.

[Skeptical Greg]

Terry still believes Ronald Reagan is the US president.

Perhaps we could change that to:


" When terry woke up, he had no reason to believe that Ronald Reagan was not the U.S. President... "


DOH!!!:eek:

When is the last time anyone woke up with awareness of events that transpired while they were asleep? ( in the most literal sense of the word )

The unsubstantiated claims of certain woo woos notwithstanding....

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Hammegk said:An idealist could conclude that memory/ego/id/etc all reside in what we perceive as "brain".
What's the part that's not in the brain, then? Does it have access to the brain's memory?

~~ Paul

[Fade]

Imagine skipping from the 80's to the 0's!

Missing the fastest period of advancement in human history can't be easy.

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Fade
Imagine skipping from the 80's to the 0's!

Missing the fastest period of advancement in human history can't be easy.

Yeah.. Imagine going from Pong to Unreal II overnight...!! :eek:

[Fade]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Yeah.. Imagine going from Pong to Unreal II overnight...!! :eek:

Oh my! :eek:

Legend is going to implement multiplayer for Unreal 2.

It boggles the mind!

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Hammegk said:
What's the part that's not in the brain, then?
~~ Paul
FYI,

http://websyte.com/unity/westerville/wuf/food/pl-ntroots2.htm

speculates better than I can on idealism. Neutral monism as I see it is only a subset of materialism -- if it effects/affects the material, it IS material. Ergo, back to idealistic monism.


Does it have access to the brain's memory?
They are One & The Same is the best I can do. The root is just "mental" rather than "physical".

[Loki]

hammegk,

Hey, haven't seen you around for a while (I've probably been posting in the wrong threads I guess!)

They are One & The Same is the best I can do. The root is just "mental" rather than "physical".
I guess what seemed interesting in this little 'coma' story is just that the patient simply "resumed" his *I* from when where it had been placed on hold. Just seems to emphasise that the *I* in question certainly seems subordinate to "physical" interactions. It always seems odd to me that if the "root/base" is mental, then why does the mental seem to be so limited by the physical? I'm tempted to write that the mental seems to be "controlled" by the physical, but I'm afraid I'll start sounding like Franko...

[Max560]

Miracles aside, can you imagine the healthcare cost of keeping some vegetable alive for 19 years? What a waste of money!

I wonder what kind of healthcare premiums the family paid.

I hope this story doesn't cause a bunch of people to keep their loved one's body alive based on some misguided notion that this sort of thing happens all the time.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

From Hammegk's link:Such seemingly negative expressions as "Emptiness" and "Void," therefore, are actually expressions of the most deep, positive, profound, and moving of spiritual experiences: the sense of utter self-abandonment felt in the ecstatic realization of one's unity with the One -- the One that is so incomparable to any existing thing that it has the appearance and affect of No-thing.
I've had a few glimpses of such experiences during my time in the TM movement. The more you meditate, the more of these experiences you have. The problem is that the experience of unity with Beingness is rooted in my mind: I am not becoming one with Beingness, but merely experiencing something that feels like that. There may be no Beingness to become one with.

Hammegk, I don't understand how to reconcile your statement that my memory is in my brain, but my brain and mind are one and the same. Is that what you said?

~~ Paul

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

I've had a few glimpses of such experiences during my time in the TM movement. The more you meditate, the more of these experiences you have. The problem is that the experience of unity with Beingness is rooted in my mind: I am not becoming one with Beingness, but merely experiencing something that feels like that. There may be no Beingness to become one with.
And I say meditation is practicing how to separate *I* from *me*. When *me* -- the stuff we perceive as "physical" -- is disconnected, only *I* remains, yet it does remain.

Hammegk, I don't understand how to reconcile your statement that my memory is in my brain, but my brain and mind are one and the same. Is that what you said?

That is another statement of The Problem. Some logically coherent form of dualism would be nice to have, but how does one bypass "if it effects or affects the "physical" it is "physical"?

Without dualism, we're back to "I think therefore I am" or "I am therefore I think"; in either case the sameness/separateness problem remains. I again invite a dualist to respond.

To me, questions concerning, for example, the existence of "Life", free will, HPC, prayer/goal setting (non-physical) effecting "physical" brain function, and the like, lead me to accept "what-is" as mental rather than "physical".

Is math mental, or physical, seems to me at least part of The Problem.

Loki: hello. I've not been posting much lately in any thread. Nice to hear from you.

[EdipisReks]

Originally posted by Fade


Oh my! :eek:

Legend is going to implement multiplayer for Unreal 2.

It boggles the mind!

but for some stupid reason they aren't implementing Co-op, despite thousands of people raging on both the official Legend forum and many others about wanting Co-op. why do they even bother when they don't give the players what they want?

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Hammegk said:And I say meditation is practicing how to separate *I* from *me*. When *me* -- the stuff we perceive as "physical" -- is disconnected, only *I* remains, yet it does remain.
Perhaps, but I don't see how you can know that for sure. To me, it felt more like I was suppressing certain aspects of my mind. I was making myself very spacey.

No matter how close you get to separating *I* from *me*, you may still just be engaged in an elaborate mood-making exercise.

~~ Paul

[hammegk]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos

Perhaps, but I don't see how you can know that for sure.

I don't; it is part & parcel of my "choice" -- Cogito, ergo sum.

Originally posted by Loki

I'm tempted to write that the mental seems to be "controlled" by the physical, but I'm afraid I'll start sounding like Franko...
I'd say Franko would not agree that physical controls mental. That's part of the position a materialist's "choice" implies.