The "BIG SECRET"

[Blight]

I just love these things...
I wonder if anyone ever did a "formula of a scam" piece.

Basically, a good scam works by taking a grain of truth and then spinning it around and sprinkling it in woo woo dust.

In this example, the grain of truth is, that "if you're a positive person, more positive things will happen to you". This has some truth to it, because if you're a positive person, small annoying things wont annoy you as much and when good things happen, you'll take them to heart. Where a negative person would get annoyed by every little thing and will tend to dismiss small positive things.

No quantum waves need apply here, it's just human perception (Glass half full vs. Glass half empty).

I have another plausible scam for you (derived by me from a practical joke I've seen on TV) based on the same principle.

I present you with "The Potato Socks"!

What are they? Socks with potato peels lining the bottom.
What do they do? Well, they make the skin on the soles of your feet silky smooth.
Where is the grain of truth? There's been media reports that bandages lined with potato skins help heal better (I believe I've seen a report on CNN, I have no idea if it's really valid, it's just an silly example for this post).

And I'm sure if someone made a slick infomercial, these things will sell sell sell!

[Snakbar]

I've often considered writing a diet book. Something like "The Waffle Diet" or anything that seems unplausible. I honestly think it would sell. If I marketed it with one heck of a publisher and could get on Oprah, I'd have my fifteen minutes...er... fifteen weeks of fame and could make some sweet money.

Oprah always has on these folks with different diets and different ways of using positive thinking to improve people's lives. If this stuff worked, we'd see a lot more thinner and richer and enlightened people. I haven't really seen that much of a change in my observation of the general public.

I like the Potato Sock idea. It would sell, if you could get the info out there. Then watch the sheep flock to it and laugh yourself all the way to the bank.

[Jon.]

I've considered selling a quantum photon generator on eBay. For only $49.95, you can buy a portable, hand-held quantum photon generator. Comes with electron-powered batteries!

(It's a flashlight.)

[KingMerv00]

I've considered selling a quantum photon generator on eBay. For only $49.95, you can buy a portable, hand-held quantum photon generator. Comes with electron-powered batteries!

(It's a flashlight.)

I've been working on a percussive nitrogen/oxygen vibration device. It's all natural too.


http://static.flickr.com/39/74359419_e0d08a185e.jpg

[Sugriva]

I've been working on a percussive nitrogen/oxygen vibration device. It's all natural too.


http://static.flickr.com/39/74359419_e0d08a185e.jpg
I'll take twenty!

[Mr. Scott]

I've often considered writing a diet book. Something like "The Waffle Diet" or anything that seems unplausible.

The funny thing is that being part of JREF and the forum has really taught me a lot about how to rip people off with frauds like these. I'm tempted, but know that Randi would catch up with me eventually.

You shouldn't be content to market the Waffle Diet book. Sell expensive waffle mix by mail order. Charge the mix with quantum photons. Buy the cheapest waffle mix you can get from a bulk manufacture. Find out what makes things taste "low fat" and sprinkle some on every batch. Find someone who used to be fat to chew on one of your waffles and supply before/after photos.

Sigh...it's too easy.

One funny thing like this I remember hearing on the radio was an infomercial about green tea. They said that the Japanese have a very low cancer rate because they drink green tea. However, we have to buy the advertiser's concentrated green tea antioxidants in capsules -- merely drinking green tea is not sufficient to get any health benefit. Huh?

I'm really expecting to enjoy Randi's review of "The Secret."

"The Secret" official web site (http://thesecret.tv/).

"The Secret" Internet Movie Database entry (http://imdb.com/title/tt0846789/).

[rjh01]

Just watched the preview. Was not impressed. Reminds me of The Da Vinci Code. Only not as good.

[Blight]

Sarcasm /
The Waffle diet can actually work.

Basically, everything you eat will make you thinner, even pure refined sugar. As long as you don't eat more than ~1500 calories a day (changes somewhat from person to person).

So why bother with such complex things as waffles... Just write the "Sugar Packet Diet" book. I think those small sugar packets are about 30-50 calories per packet, so a person could have about 40 of them per day and still lose weight!

Of course, they'll die of malnutrition within a few weeks, but hey! we've made a quick buck and they had a sweet death. And as that old joke goes, nothing makes you thinner than death.
/ Sarcasm

[Ladewig]

I'm having a hard time believing Einstein was in on "the secret." Didn't he spend the last several years of his life sincerely wishing to discover a Grand Unifying Theory?

[RationalReverend]

I'm having a hard time believing Einstein was in on "the secret." Didn't he spend the last several years of his life sincerely wishing to discover a Grand Unifying Theory?

Pwnt

[Kopji]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-klein13feb13,0,3953992.story?coll=la-opinion-rightrail

Self-help gone nutty
A craze called 'The Secret' blends Tony Robbins with 'The Da Vinci Code,' telling people to have it all without trying.
By Karin Klein, KARIN KLEIN is a Times editorial writer.
February 13, 2007


I'm always curious at how similar these are to standard 'pyramid schemes', yet each one is presented as if it is a new idea. The people that make money are the first ones in - writing the books and making the movie. Even Dear Sweet Honest Oprah is an early winner in a way that the people who follow will never be.

[Ladewig]

Upon reflection I realized how angry I am at those pinheads for promoting such damnable nonsense. They are implying that the Jews in the 1940's wanted to be kidnapped, enslaved, and murdered - that they didn't have enough positive mental attitude to overcome their circumstances.

[mollyblack]

I still haven't watched it and now I'm glad. $5- to find out that the reason some of my friends are dead is because they WANTED to die horrible car deaths like being at a stop sign at the wrong time? Or because one fell asleep at the wheel? And my friend lost his five friends to the events of 9/11/01 because they wanted to die a horrible death (not to mention a friend who lost her father there as well)?

Wow.

I expected something insane, but not THAT insane. My sister wants me to watch it and ... I've avoided it like the plague quite frankly. The site just gave me the feeling of "YUCK!" and now I know why.

[TheChadd]

Sigh.... If anyone wants to not pay $5 or hasn't seen this on tv, the following clip should give a you the idea.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L5yeHR3RUKo

The whole thing also seems to be available, follow these links:

Part 1: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ruLYGx8ilYM
Part 2: http://youtube.com/watch?v=vCnsm6SVceU
Part 3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lr6Ir-I5xqU
Part 4: http://youtube.com/watch?v=ayLOwR7yDWc

Best craporama since that video by the 'ramtha' supporters.

A actually think this video would take a long time to list all the problems with it. It has more than enough material to last skeptics a month.

[Apathia]

Linky to linky:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=75168

[Ladewig]

In the comments section of the Skeptico blog (http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2007/02/the_secret.html#comments) Joe says:

Every school child knows that the Law of Jinx is a much more powerful tool then the Law of Attraction. The Law of Jinx says that if you think something is going to happen: it won't. It is called 'jinxing' it. It is the exact opposite of the Law of Attraction. For example when I woke up today I thought I was going to eat pancakes for breakfast. I jinxed it and had cold oatmeal instead. :(

Jinx also has other mysterious uses. If you shout it when someone is shooting a basketball it will cause them to miss. Also if you say something at the exact same time as another person and are able to yell “jinx!” before they do it will cause them to buy you a coke.

The Law of Jinx. It works every time!

[Apathia]

:lol2:

[Jon.]

Jinx also has other mysterious uses. If you shout it when someone is shooting a basketball it will cause them to miss. Also if you say something at the exact same time as another person and are able to yell “jinx!” before they do it will cause them to buy you a coke.

No, no, no! That's not how jinxing someone works! If you yell "jinx" first, they're not allowed to talk until someone says their name. If they do, you get one shoulder-punch on them.

Kids these days, I tell you!

[Buckaroo]

Sigh.... If anyone wants to not pay $5 or hasn't seen this on tv, the following clip should give a you the idea.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=L5yeHR3RUKo



The first guy's title is "Metaphysician." HAR!

[Buckaroo]

Okay, let me try this:

I hereby ask the Universe to grant me the gift of Jennifer Connelly.


I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

[Apathia]

Okay, let me try this:

I hereby ask the Universe to grant me the gift of Jennifer Connelly.


I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

Now you realize, Buckaroo, that while visualizing Jennifer in your arms, sends a powerful metaphysical tractor beam, for a woman such as her, lusted upon by thousands of men, you are going to have to amp it up.

1. Make her your obsession, if she isn't already. This can't be halfheated. You must cover the walls of your room with her pictures. You must be a leading member in her fan clubs and post daily on forums devoted to her.

2. Visualize having her in the most graphic ways you can. No particulars given, but you get the drift.

3. Use Allister Crowley's patented Sex Magic: At orgasm focus exclusively on your intentions regarding her and what you expect her to be for you. Practice sending her vibes from your Heart Chakra.

4. Believe that Jennifer Connelly is already yours

5. Allow no quarter (or even a penny) for negativity. You must be the perpetual smiling face. Visualize your self as the ever warm, yellow, plastic smiley face! (This skill will be valuable to you when you do get Jennifer into your life. You will be able to mask all feelings that might threaten the relationship.)


6. Make a sacrifice to focus your intent. For example, if there is a woman in your life you have some interest in or a partail relationship, cut off all contact with her to communicate to the Universe that you'll have Jennifer only.
Sacrificing a chicken isn't recommended, but if you do offer the poultry to the needy in the name of Jennifer Connelly.

7. Do not doubt! Jennifer will be irristably drawn to you, if not in this life, the next, if not in this world, the brane next door. If you are truely obsessed with her, it's because your soulmates and she is alrerady desiring you!

Congratulations! And send me a check for my Life Coaching services.

:lol2:

[Buckaroo]

ANYTHING for Jennifer!

And thanks for illuminating me as to why my Winona Ryder shrine never worked -- I coulda saved the chicken. :D

[Ladewig]

No, no, no! That's not how jinxing someone works! If you yell "jinx" first, they're not allowed to talk until someone says their name. If they do, you get one shoulder-punch on them.

Kids these days, I tell you!

Wow. That rule sounds much more powerful than the Law of Attraction.

Now if I can only post the exact same message as a couple of nut cases in the religion sub-forum, then I can type "jinx" and prevent them from posting.

[LeCynthia]

Now you realize, Buckaroo, that while visualizing Jennifer in your arms, sends a powerful metaphysical tractor beam, for a woman such as her, lusted upon by thousands of men, you are going to have to amp it up.

1. Make her your obsession, if she isn't already. This can't be halfheated. You must cover the walls of your room with her pictures. You must be a leading member in her fan clubs and post daily on forums devoted to her.

2. Visualize having her in the most graphic ways you can. No particulars given, but you get the drift.

3. Use Allister Crowley's patented Sex Magic: At orgasm focus exclusively on your intentions regarding her and what you expect her to be for you. Practice sending her vibes from your Heart Chakra.

4. Believe that Jennifer Connelly is already yours

5. Allow no quarter (or even a penny) for negativity. You must be the perpetual smiling face. Visualize your self as the ever warm, yellow, plastic smiley face! (This skill will be valuable to you when you do get Jennifer into your life. You will be able to mask all feelings that might threaten the relationship.)


6. Make a sacrifice to focus your intent. For example, if there is a woman in your life you have some interest in or a partail relationship, cut off all contact with her to communicate to the Universe that you'll have Jennifer only.
Sacrificing a chicken isn't recommended, but if you do offer the poultry to the needy in the name of Jennifer Connelly.

7. Do not doubt! Jennifer will be irristably drawn to you, if not in this life, the next, if not in this world, the brane next door. If you are truely obsessed with her, it's because your soulmates and she is alrerady desiring you!

Congratulations! And send me a check for my Life Coaching services.

:lol2:


You left out:

8. Go through her garbage and wait outside her residence in a white Chevy van.

[Buckaroo]

You left out:

8. Go through her garbage and wait outside her residence in a white Chevy van.

Tried it already. Doesn't work. :(

[Arg9]

Okay, let me try this:

I hereby ask the Universe to grant me the gift of Jennifer Connelly.


I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

According to "The Secret" the possibilites are limitless. I'm hoping for Ingrid Bergman.

[Arg9]

I think it would be pretty safe to assume millions of teenage boys practiced wishful thinking, visualization, extreme positivity, and focus on a particular subject only to have the universe bring them nothing... :boggled:

[Mr. Scott]

I think it would be pretty safe to assume millions of teenage boys practiced wishful thinking, visualization, extreme positivity, and focus on a particular subject only to have the universe bring them nothing... :boggled:

The escape hatch the promoters of The Secret use is time delay. Keep visualizing, keep being positive, and the pretty girl will be yours eventually. Of course, you could wait until the girl is an old hag, or you could die waiting, but the universe was, they assert, keeping your request queued for eventual delivery at its convenience.

I'd like to know where and what is this amazing storage device that keeps track of all our hopes and dreams, and by what formula it uses to decide exactly when these rewards are dolled out to each of us. Must be a huge, complicated, imaginary device involved in everything. Sounds like a god to me, but nowhere in The Secret's materials have I found the "G" word.

I think they'd like us to believe they are revealing a law of science, when they are, in reality, creating a new religion. Move aside, L. Ron.

[Brian Jackson]

Oddly, $cientology has a similar belief... they call it "Pulling it in" when you allow bad thoughts to become realities. Hey, I'm all for positive thinking: a nice smile goes far in the business & dating worlds. Perhaps I can spin that somehow and market it with slick packaging.

[Victor Meldrew]

Okay, let me try this:

I hereby ask the Universe to grant me the gift of Jennifer Connelly.


I'll let ya'll know how it goes.

......but what happens if someone else wants her as much as you do?

Do you get half each?

[Apathia]

......but what happens if someone else wants her as much as you do?

Do you get half each?

No, she is reborn into an existance where she has five husbands, one of which is you. Krishna protect her!

[Mr. Scott]

......but what happens if someone else wants her as much as you do?

Do you get half each?

Yes, that is a fatal flaw in the reasoning of the Law of Attraction. It doesn't acknowledge that the world is full of competition and zero sum games. Of course, this is a very old problem. If two teams from Catholic schools are cometing, and both have teams of nuns praying to the lord to win, then what are the looser to think? God abandoned them?

To the best of my knowledge, The Secret's producers do not address this issue.

[Arg9]

I think they'd like us to believe they are revealing a law of science, when they are, in reality, creating a new religion. Move aside, L. Ron.

This is what irritates me the most. And because of this "law of science" spin, people really think it deals with science and are accepting it easier and protecting it. To me, some of the examples of "The Secret" that was used in the movie was an example of sociology.

1) Kid wants bike. Like most kids, tells parents constantly. Parents buy it for him, not the universe.

2) Someone with hopes and dreams expresses this to loved ones/friends. They remember this and help when possible - through ideas, funding, moral support, etc. the chances for the dream becoming real is amped up.

The only frequency waves involved would probably be those coming from the kids mouth in repetitive "pleeeaassse"s. I know I annoyed my parents with these frequencies. After awhile, they'll buy whatever you want to shut you up or provide you with ways to work your butt off to earn the money yourself.

[Alan Heap]

I'm having a hard time believing Einstein was in on "the secret." Didn't he spend the last several years of his life sincerely wishing to discover a Grand Unifying Theory?

yes, when he became bedridden. the nurse looking after him would often have to take his pencil and paper away to make sure he would rest. might have been paranoid of dying without discovering "the secret".

[Apathia]

Yes, that is a fatal flaw in the reasoning of the Law of Attraction. It doesn't acknowledge that the world is full of competition and zero sum games. Of course, this is a very old problem. If two teams from Catholic schools are cometing, and both have teams of nuns praying to the lord to win, then what are the looser to think? God abandoned them?

To the best of my knowledge, The Secret's producers do not address this issue.

The reply I get from New Age friends is that we are all "co-creating."
The reply stops there and they change the subject to how if we all embraced and practiced The Secret, we'd co-create a better world.

As any object of faith, you can't look closely at it or you'll see the flaws.

[Dedicated]

Hey guys, new poster, but wanted to comment on this.

First off, I will say that I didn't get to see the DVD, but I did see the whole show that was on Oprah.

From what I took out of it the whole thing was about the "Law of Attraction".

Now, I didn't get a sense that they suggested that everything will always go perfectly, but they basically suggested that if you go towards the things you are attracted to, that will bring you happiness. And furthermore, it is when you go to the opposite direction that your quality of life gets worse.

This doesn't give people the right to lose all their logic and think anything they want will be theirs. The things that you want still have to be logical. I guess their argument is that all things being even. So wanting to hook up with a specific movie star if you dont know them is unrealistic.

But I think the general idea is true. For example, the biggest problem in todays society is when people do things against their happiness to make others happy. Sometimes they feel like they have no other choice. I would say that the best example would be in relationships where a men decides not to do something he really wants to make his women happy. But he justifies it by saying that relationships are all about "doing things for each other". The thing he doesn't realize is, not doing something you want to do is not "doing things for each other" That is just not doing something you want to do. What you should do instead is set something up so both you and your wife can follow your dreams and do the things you want. So, set something up where both of you can do what you want, not take away things to balance it out. If you take those things away its just setting yourself up for a life with regrets. Its a small little thing but it is when people mess these definitions up that bad things happen. It becomes a vicious circle.

Its like a person that CONSIDERS himself an academic, a person that is intellectually curious, but decides not to get further education. You would just assume that a person that considers education and academia so highly would actually have some credentials. Every time you meet a person, your education is a discussion topic. Now, no matter how smart you say you are, if you dont have further education, it doesn't mean as much.(people will doubt it more) No matter how many times you say that you view yourself like an academic, if you dont have further education, it doesn't mean much. No matter how much you tell someone that you dream about being a doctor, if you haven't done the work, it doesn't mean much. So what ultimatley happens is that people that are all these things mentioned (educated, intellectually curious, etc) will not have interest in a person that does not have these things. Even though you might really love a person that is like that, and you dream of being like that, you are basically lying. You are saying you really really love things that you have not worked for.

So as you are dating more, you are now going to be attracting people that you are not neccesarily attracted to. You all of the sudden find yourself in a rut. What you think of yourself and the facts of who you are are way too far off. So this becomes a whole vicious circle.

What it ultimatley comes down to is: listening to yourself, doing the things you want, going towards your attractions, and presenting yourself in a way that shows how people should treat you and what you think of yourself. All that positive attitude that they refer to basically boils down to going towards your attractions and presenting yourself the way you would like to be treated because then people will respond to you accordingly. And its all so true. If you dont act confident, that is when people like to take advantage. If you dont think much of yourself, others wont either. etc

[Mr. Scott]

Hey guys, new poster, but wanted to comment on this.

First off, I will say that I didn't get to see the DVD, but I did see the whole show that was on Oprah.

From what I took out of it the whole thing was about the "Law of Attraction".

Now, I didn't get a sense that they suggested that everything will always go perfectly, but they basically suggested that if you go towards the things you are attracted to, that will bring you happiness. And furthermore, it is when you go to the opposite direction that your quality of life gets worse.


So, tell me what this has to do with quantum mechanics.

BTW, the whole film, The Secret, is available free in sections on youtube. Part 4 has the really gross part about the kid who gets the fancy bike by merely wishing:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=mindspin2007

[Dedicated]

So, tell me what this has to do with quantum mechanics.

BTW, the whole film, The Secret, is available free in sections on youtube:



Its not a perfect science because human interaction in itself is a very complex thing. But I would say it is unfair to say its a hoax. I think this is one of the principles to follow if you want a better and happier life. The general principle that if you go towards things that you are attracted to is only positive. (Definetley better than the alternative)

I just have a problem with people suggesting its a hoax. Just because something is not perfect (do to many other factors) does not mean that the overall principle is not right.

[Apathia]

Dedicated,

That's a nice makeover for the Law of Attraction. I didn't see Oprah, so for all I know she reframed the whole thing that way.

See The Secret itself or do some googling on the Law of Atraction and you'll find what most of us are objecting to. The Law is that dependent upon your thinking, atititude, and intent (no mention of effort and work) the goodlife (material things) will be attracted to you as if you were a magnet.

I'll add that pursuing what you are attracted to doesn't always come to happiness, even if you get what you want, especially if it all comes down to just plain old common garden variety greed. (What the Secret Movie feeds off of)

I do agree with you to listen to yourself and go with what is you to the best of your ability.

[Mr. Scott]

Dedicated,

That's a nice makeover for the Law of Attraction. I didn't see Oprah, so for all I know she reframed the whole thing that way.


Oprah's show on The Secret, and Larry King's, are on youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=smithjonas

Edited to add: That's the response show after the initial broadcast, but the rest can be found on the various online video sites. I guess I didn't wish for it hard enough this time.

[Dedicated]

Dedicated,

That's a nice makeover for the Law of Attraction. I didn't see Oprah, so for all I know she reframed the whole thing that way.

See The Secret itself or do some googling on the Law of Atraction and you'll find what most of us are objecting to. The Law is that dependent upon your thinking, atititude, and intent (no mention of effort and work) the goodlife (material things) will be attracted to you as if you were a magnet.

I'll add that pursuing what you are attracted to doesn't always come to happiness, even if you get what you want, especially if it all comes down to just plain old common garden variety greed. (What the Secret Movie feeds off of)

I do agree with you to listen to yourself and go with what is you to the best of your ability.

Yeah, I guess I'll have to see it. If things like work and effort are not mentioned, its not the same thing. I think so much of attraction is based on proof because ultimatley it comes down to the ability to have passion for another person because they are committed to whatever. And as I mentioned above, if someone tells me they are an academic, but they dont have high school finished, no matter about their positive attitude or what they say, its kind of hard to take seriously.

[SezMe]

For example, the biggest problem in todays society is when people do things against their happiness to make others happy.
Welcome, Dedicated.

The above is a pretty sweeping statement. What about crime, public health, poverty, etc., etc., etc. I think you need to ease of the rhetoric a tad.

Now I realize this is a bit tangential to the thrust of your post, but sweeping generalizations are not viewed favorably in this corner of the pasture.

[Apathia]

Oprah's show on The Secret, and Larry King's, are on youtube here:

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=smithjonas

Thank's Mr. Scott! But this appears to be the follow up show one week later. I'd like to see the first one to catch how The Secret was presented.

When I respond to friends who buy into the the Law of Attraction with my reasons why it is supersttion, they usualy back off of the original idea to something generally bland and acceptable to all, such as "People who have a positive attitude get more positive cooperation and help from others." Of course then, there's nothing to debunk in that. And they go on to repeat the supertituous stuff later.

[Dedicated]

Welcome, Dedicated.

The above is a pretty sweeping statement. What about crime, public health, poverty, etc., etc., etc. I think you need to ease of the rhetoric a tad.

Now I realize this is a bit tangential to the thrust of your post, but sweeping generalizations are not viewed favorably in this corner of the pasture.

Thanks for the welcome.

Not 100% sure if I understand what you mean exactly.

[Arg9]

Hey guys, new poster, but wanted to comment on this.

Welcome to the forum, Dedicated!

Now, I didn't get a sense that they suggested that everything will always go perfectly, but they basically suggested that if you go towards the things you are attracted to, that will bring you happiness. And furthermore, it is when you go to the opposite direction that your quality of life gets worse.

I haven't seen the Oprah episode on this, but in the movie there are instances where they are using the laws of science to explain "The Secret" instead of basic human interaction and psychology. They don't explain this as even a possibility which to me is a big red flag for flawed reasoning and/or intentional manipulation.

This doesn't give people the right to lose all their logic and think anything they want will be theirs. The things that you want still have to be logical. I guess their argument is that all things being even. So wanting to hook up with a specific movie star if you dont know them is unrealistic.

As I recall, in the movie they claim that "possibilities are limitless" (someone please correct me if I'm wrong on this). That's a pretty powerful claim that needs very strong backing. I think being a person living on the streets and using "The Secret" to become a millionaire is about as wishful as wanting to hookup with a specific movie star. It's a matter of how motivated you are to make it happen and what you're willing to do.


What it ultimatley comes down to is: listening to yourself, doing the things you want, going towards your attractions, and presenting yourself in a way that shows how people should treat you and what you think of yourself. All that positive attitude that they refer to basically boils down to going towards your attractions and presenting yourself the way you would like to be treated because then people will respond to you accordingly. And its all so true. If you dont act confident, that is when people like to take advantage. If you dont think much of yourself, others wont either. etc

I agree with you completely, Dedicated. Having a positive attitude is very important to help ourselves reach those goals, dreams,etc. And it has a major impact as to who wants to be around us. And health too. However, why couldn't they explain how positivity benefits you through the research that has been done through biology, sociology, and psychology? I think "The Secret" is just a marketing technique to take old wisdom, spice it up, and remarket it again with misleading information.

[Mr. Scott]

Thank's Mr. Scott! But this appears to be the follow up show one week later. I'd like to see the first one to catch how The Secret was presented.

I think the original show fell to one of youtube's amazing copyright-motivated disappearing acts. It should show up again soon. Just visualize yourself watching it on your computer, and it will magically reappear. May the force (law of attraction, genie, yahweh, rhonda, etc.) be with you.

[Mr. Scott]

I just checked with the Internet Movie Database. In their Trivia section for The Secret it says in the original script the cosmic basis for The Law of Attraction was not quantum mechanics. It was midi-chlorians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midi-chlorians).

It's true! :)

[/sarcasm]

Is it any wonder The Secret appeals to the Star Wars generations?

[Apathia]

I watched a couple of portions of the follow-up show (as much as I could stomach). Oprah begins by saying it's what she's been telling her fans all along, i.e. think positively and take charge of your own life. Her guest speakers repeat the prac that everything is energy and like energy attracts.
Then come the testimonials, "It changed my life!"

It seems to me the majority came away from it with the impression they could get out of whatever rut their lives were in. It gave hope to many.
I wouldn't want to thow cold water on a person's resolve that s/he could change her circumstances. But though a superstition can in the short term inspire some helpful change, in the long term its dibilitating. my xgf is currently blaming herself for her lack of a strong enough intent and resolve to make the universe manifest what she wants in her life. Meanwhile she isn't doing what she needs to do to effect change. False hope takes a toll in the end.

It seems to me that many of her viewers may have taken it in the usual think positively and do your best sense. We always expect inpirational talks to be over idealistic. It's the "impossible things come to those who dream" thingy that is an old part of our cultural fairy tales.

[Mr. Scott]

The Powerful Intentions web site (http://www.powerfulintentions.com/) has a forum for followers of "The Secret" and I think it's time to suggest they apply for the Randi challenge.

Here's one of their graven images: a cheque (http://www.thesecret.tv/secret-treasures.html) you can write out to yourself for any amount and the "Law of Attraction" will make it come true. I think Randi's million has a good chance of fulfilling their desires. We should invite them to this discussion, too.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/673645e2f3ca8f7a4.jpg

[Apathia]

The Powerful Intentions web site (http://www.powerfulintentions.com/) has a forum for followers of "The Secret" and I think it's time to suggest they apply for the Randi challenge.

Here's one of their graven images: a cheque (http://www.thesecret.tv/secret-treasures.html) you can write out to yourself for any amount and the "Law of Attraction" will make it come true. I think Randi's million has a good chance of fulfilling their desires. We should invite them to this discussion, too.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/673645e2f3ca8f7a4.jpg

How soon is it before some dupe maks one of these out to hirself and taks it to a local bank to be cashed, demanding s/he recieve what is already hirs?

[Arg9]

I love the check. Classic stuff right there. What's so funny about the movie "The Secret" is how much it revolves around money MONEY MONEY and other material things. Why aren't they teaching us how to use our positivity/law of attraction for pulling in groundbreaking ideas, creativity, education - the things that are actually really positive for a person and as a society? (you, know, since they're all about positivity)

[sophia8]

Here's one of their graven images: a cheque (http://www.thesecret.tv/secret-treasures.html) you can write out to yourself for any amount and the "Law of Attraction" will make it come true. I notice it's made out in dollars. Since the dollar is so weak these days, I demand a cheque made out in sterling or Euros!

[Ladewig]

I notice it's made out in dollars. Since the dollar is so weak these days, I demand a cheque made out in sterling or Euros!

You're thinking too small. I demand that a new unit of currency called the "Ladewig" be insitutued and the check be made for one million Ladewigs .

[Apathia]

I love the check. Classic stuff right there. What's so funny about the movie "The Secret" is how much it revolves around money MONEY MONEY and other material things. Why aren't they teaching us how to use our positivity/law of attraction for pulling in groundbreaking ideas, creativity, education - the things that are actually really positive for a person and as a society? (you, know, since they're all about positivity)

"Universe won't you manifest me a Mercedes Benz!"

Yes, carpetbaggers they are, they sell a thinly veiled get rich quick scam,
snake oil for the soul.

[Mr. Scott]

Seen on "The Secret" forum:


Invitation to MONTEL WILLIAMS SHOW - show with Jack Canfiled

"Are you having some major obstacles in your life that you need help with?? Difficulties with your job, your kids, relationships, finances, etc? Well, we can help you! Jack Canfield, the popular author best known for
his Chicken Soup For The Soul books, is coming on our show Wednesday, February 28th

He recently released the DVD and book called The Secret
which details the secrets to success. We are looking for 10 guests in the tri-state area who are desperate for answers to their everyday problems, and are willing to come to the show, watch the DVD during the taping, and describe how and if the DVD affected them in any way.

Yes, you will be on camera. You must be able to provide your own transportation to and from the show, which is located on 53rd St between 9th and 10th (New York). You must be able to be at the studio around 9-10 AM. If you are interested, please email me at j_stryker@montelshow.com ASAP!!! Do YOU want to know your secret to success??? This could change your life forever!"

[Mr. Scott]

Here's something truly scary I read on The Secret forum:


My main reason for posting this is because the news reviews on The Secret seem to all be saying that The Secret is dangerous because if you believe The Secret, you may not get medical attention if you have a serious illness, and The Secret needs to be proven in a clinical study.

Clinical studies are bogus for the most part. The placebo effect is a much better healer than any medical drug. In these studies, if there are more positive people taking the sugar pill than the drug, then it will look as if the sugar pill did a better job then the drug, and the drug won't be sold. If there are more positive people who took the drug, then it looks like the drug works, and the pharmaceutical company just made a few billion dollars.

These clinical studies are done by the pharmaceutical companies themselves. They may start and fund a business to be an "independant researcher" but it is still under control of the pharmaceutical company. If this is a drug where they think they can make a lot of money, they can fudge the results of the study by either putting all the positive people in the study group taking the drug, or by keeping on doing studies until they get the results they want.

In these news reviews, the disease they refer to most often is cancer (I assume because most people get scared even from just hearing the word).

A cancer researcher and professor at the University of California said, "Patients are as well, or better off, untreated....My studies have proven conclusively that cancer patients who refuse chemotherapy and radiation actually live up to four times longer than treated cases, including untreated breast cancer cases."

Cancer is a lot more common than you think. 95% of the time, cancer appears and disappears on its own, and it only really becomes a problem when it is diagnosed and people begin to fear it and lose hope, then treat it with chemo, which most likely kills more people than the cancer itself. Since the U.S. started the "war on cancer", billions and billions of dollars have been pumped into finding a cure (or given to pharmaceutical companies) and yet the cancer rates have skyrocketed, and the average remission rate of cancer when treated with surgery and/or chemo is only about 7%. You really have to question whether or not pharmaceutical companies really want there to be a cure for cancer, considering one cancer patient is the equivalent of $300,000 in their pocket.

The real cure for diseases starts with a belief that your disease will be healed. This is how The Secret helps cure disease. The placebo effect, which is nothing more than a belief that you will be cured, is the best form of healing available. The human body has the power to cure itself of any disease. The Secret is a start to learning how to claim that power. The only danger to it is that it could take away some of the psychologist's, doctor's, and pharmaceutical company's patients.


linky (http://team.powerfulintentions.com/forum/thesecret/message-view/12551929)

[doyle]

Now there is a healthy relationship with reality. Yikes.

[sophia8]

A cancer researcher and professor at the University of California said, "Patients are as well, or better off, untreated....My studies have proven conclusively that cancer patients who refuse chemotherapy and radiation actually live up to four times longer than treated cases, including untreated breast cancer cases."
There's a takedown of that particular claim here: The Quackfiles on Hardin Jones (http://www.geocities.com/healthbase/Hardin_Jones.html) Excerpts below quote a speech by Dr. Hardin Jones, a prominent cancer researcher and former professor at the Donner Lab of Medical Physics at the University of California (at both Berkeley and Davis.)

Dr. Hardin Jones published these statistics in his article in Transactions, New York Academy of Science, series 2, v. 18, n.3, p.322. Write us for others who collected their own cancer survival statistics, and who accuse official studies of being "doctored" or skewed by drug sponsors, to show some benefits for chemotherapy.
"My studies have proved conclusively that cancer patients who refuse chemotherapy and radiation actually live up to FOUR TIMES LONGER THAN TREATED CASES."

I decided to find out what this was all about. Some were quoting this as a reason to avoid cancer treatment.
I have tracked down Hardin Jones 1956 (!!!) presentation to the Academy of Science It is to this that all web sites repeating the
claim refer. It contains numerous statistics on treated and untreated cancers, the most detailed of which refer to breast cancer.
I have obtained a copy of this paper and there is no such statement anywhere within it!!
Typical sCAM tactics - get hold of some quotes that fit your views and repeat them ad infinitum without bothering to do do even a quick google check (this was the very first result for "Dr Hardin Jones" in Google!)

Unquestioningly accepting lies and twisted statistics as truth - is that The Secret??

[Apathia]

Unquestioningly accepting lies and twisted statistics as truth - is that The Secret??

Indeed!

It's a path of mindless denial. "If you don't believe cancer can kill you, it won't."
It's like snake handling. If you do get deathly ill, and prayer doesn't cure you, it's because you don't have strong faith and intent.

But, looking at it in a postive light, it does weed out the losers. The Darwin Awards, you know.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I don't watch Oprah regularly, but I did catch a few minutes today when she was speaking with a woman who survived abuse at the hands of her father when she was young. (I think she also witnessed him murdering her mother or something--I only caught a bit of it.) The little bit that I saw stressed how a lot of her psychological trauma was in wrongly blaming herself. In other words, she wrongly thought she could have somehow prevented these horrible things from happening. She needed to accept that the perpetrated was at fault, and she was powerless to do anything to stop it.

Sort of the opposite lesson of "The Big Secret" isn't it?

[Mr. Scott]

She needed to accept that the perpetrated was at fault, and she was powerless to do anything to stop it.

Sort of the opposite lesson of "The Big Secret" isn't it?

Well, yes, the followers of "The Secret" seem to have no critical thinking capabilities and simply twist and turn their philosophy to fit whatever they like however they like. According to the model of the Law of Attraction, the little girl thought about abuse and brought it on herself. She sent the message out to the universe that she expected abuse, and the universe complied. Strange how unreflective these people are. "The Secret" will run its course until people find out it doesn't work, then it will fade away until the next positive thinking carpetbagger comes around.

[Arg9]

..."The Secret" will run its course until people find out it doesn't work, then it will fade away until the next positive thinking carpetbagger comes around.

And this frustrates the hell out of me. Make their millions and POOF! Gone. Who cares?

I think the progress of "The Secret" is a good example of the twisted side of the law-of-marketing:

Want money. Find a way to deeply manipulate the masses. Ignore whether it's moral or not. POOF! Massive sales and $$$. Oh, people are tired of it now? What can I think up NEXT?

It makes me sad to think that "The Secret" was plotted this way but it really looks to me like they're using "The Secret" of marketing.

[I'll_buy_that]

What drivel. I can't believe the Oprah can seriously give this credence on her show and shoot the book to the top of the best seller list. unbelievable.

It's just another positive thinking philosophy with more glitz.

i mean, "..no one understands electricity...yet it works..." What the $@#*?

What is a 'visionary' anyway? and so many rules that change based on what you're thinking about.

I guess I attracted this movie somehow? because they are saying that everything that i'm complaining about, I attracted. ok, so blame me, send me 10% of the proceeds too.

[Axiom_Blade]

It makes me sad to think that "The Secret" was plotted this way but it really looks to me like they're using "The Secret" of marketing.

I decided awhile back that the whole New Age/alt-med movement-thing was a big marketing scam, because the followers are always trying to get in on the Next Big Thing.

Back in the 80s, the crazies were all talking about crystal power, and the Secret Life of Jesus. Now, they're talking about aromatherapy and "manifesting". Soon, it will be something else.

What's funny about The Secret is that they're acting like it's something totally new, that we've never seen before. But it's just the same old claptrap we've been hearing from these guys for decades, most recently in What The Bleep...? Do the fans of this movie really think this is something I've never heard of before?

Do they really think it's something they've never heard of before?

[Apathia]

The Powerful Intentions web site (http://www.powerfulintentions.com/) has a forum for followers of "The Secret" and I think it's time to suggest they apply for the Randi challenge.

Here's one of their graven images: a cheque (http://www.thesecret.tv/secret-treasures.html) you can write out to yourself for any amount and the "Law of Attraction" will make it come true. I think Randi's million has a good chance of fulfilling their desires. We should invite them to this discussion, too.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/673645e2f3ca8f7a4.jpg

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/sns-ap-counterfeiting-god,0,3496618.story

[ebola]

I am just hoping that Oprah is wishing to become less gullible... Perhaps my mystic interaction with the universe will spur her to mystically interact with the universe and reject some of the horse manure which appears on her show.

Eric

[Eos of the Eons]

Oprah is officially SCUM.


While on the show, that same psychic misrepresented what she’d said to Laura during the reading. For example, she had told Laura that her father didn’t like to show his romantic side to his wife. Laura had denied this, citing the numerous times that he’d bought her jewelry or surprised her with flowers and chocolates. And, on the broadcast – edited – show, the “reader” said that she had correctly gotten that the father liked to show his romantic side to his wife – the exact opposite of what she’d “divined.” Roberto continues:


They were rude to the sole skeptic on the show, AND accused her of being "blocked,” not open to receiving my father's “energy,” and that she had issues with closeness and emotional ties".

Yes, it's Laura's fault that the psychic reading was crap. Even so, they edit a miss as a hit.

orca and her show are officially on my "scum of the earth" list, along with Montel (and antivaccinators). Lowest of the low ilk. Despicable.

[LeCynthia]

This whole thing reminds me of Scott Adams of Dilbert fame who wrote in his book "The Dilbert Future" that he owes his success to daily confirmations. He said he wrote 5-10 times a day something like "I will be a world famous cartoonist and have a popular comic series" or something like that (I'm going from memory) and so it happened.

It also reminds me of this ring I have that repels tigers.

[CurtC]

This whole thing reminds me of Scott Adams of Dilbert fame who wrote in his book "The Dilbert Future" that he owes his success to daily confirmations. He said he wrote 5-10 times a day something like "I will be a world famous cartoonist and have a popular comic series" or something like that (I'm going from memory) and so it happened.
That's the kind of use of the power of positive thinking that is actually true. His focus on that goal inspired him to do the work, and I'm sure it took a lot of work, under conditions that would be discouraging to most people. His focus on it allowed him to persevere through those hard times and achieve what he really wanted.

The trouble with The Secret's approach is that it never mentions that whole step about hard work and persistence. Just "Ask, Believe, Receive." The universe brings it to you while you sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. Well, that, and the fact that everything they say having to do with science is wrong.

[LeCynthia]

That's the kind of use of the power of positive thinking that is actually true. His focus on that goal inspired him to do the work, and I'm sure it took a lot of work, under conditions that would be discouraging to most people. His focus on it allowed him to persevere through those hard times and achieve what he really wanted.

The trouble with The Secret's approach is that it never mentions that whole step about hard work and persistence. Just "Ask, Believe, Receive." The universe brings it to you while you sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. Well, that, and the fact that everything they say having to do with science is wrong.


Yes, but the point is he doesn't credit his own hard work, his focus, his talent, or any of that. He credits writing it tens times a day and says whatever you want you can have if you write it ten times a day. I think that's pretty much the same as sitting there wishing for it, only it takes a little more work to write it ten times a day than it does just wishing and being positive.

[saganite]

It's a path of mindless denial. "If you don't believe cancer can kill you, it won't."
It's like snake handling. If you do get deathly ill, and prayer doesn't cure you, it's because you don't have strong faith and intent.

To be fair, the responses to that particular post disagreed with the OP's statements and made reasonable points. One poster pointed out that believing the entire medical community to be a bunch of hoaxsters would force him to believe that every single one of them was involved in a massive evil conspiracy--an inherently negative thought that he didn't care to trouble himself with. Another poster urged the OP to listen to skeptics to discern the truth for himself. It isn't fair to lump the group in with that one guy, who seems to have been all alone in his little crazy corner.

[Apathia]

To be fair, the responses to that particular post disagreed with the OP's statements and made reasonable points. One poster pointed out that believing the entire medical community to be a bunch of hoaxsters would force him to believe that every single one of them was involved in a massive evil conspiracy--an inherently negative thought that he didn't care to trouble himself with. Another poster urged the OP to listen to skeptics to discern the truth for himself. It isn't fair to lump the group in with that one guy, who seems to have been all alone in his little crazy corner.

I confess I don't get this post. Am I "that one guy' or am I the one doing the lumping of everybody together? I apologise if my posts have lumped all of your comments into one woo catagory.
I think elswhere I have made the point that positive goal setting and effort yield good results, more or less. I take exception to the Law of Attracttion that says that positive thoughts about something will magically attract it to you. The Law of Attraction is a peeve with me. Forgive my ranting about it.
I will now sit quietly in my crazy corner.

[Antiquehunter]

A few points - and please don't thrash me or label me a woo.

I have a bit of a background with this stuff.

When I met my partner of 11 years, I was taking what was described as a mid-level management course called 'The Excellence Series'. (He was an employee of the company.) The course was a combination of some Jungian psychological concepts, the notion of self-accountability, goalsetting, communication methods, presentation skills, and some woo-ish crap about relaxation and this notion of 'positive visualization'. I think the course was generally a more toned-down and slightly more legitimate version of what used to be called 'EST' in the 80's - certainly there were some similarities. The course series had a vaguely cult-like following of people who really got wrapped up in the course itself. (I was not in this group of people) They used their motivation to simply focus on the course materials, rather than actually get on with their lives. This was very unfortunate - because many individual elements of the course were pretty good.

Now - I must admit, at that point in my life, many of the CONCEPTS helped me out a great deal. I never ascribed to the woo-ish crap, merely tolerated it as part of the course (since work was paying) but the notion of being personally accountable for what happens to me in my life is actually very liberating and empowering. Taken to extremes, then yes, this turns into new-age BS. But some of the tools used correctly are fine (in my opinion).

When I look back at the goals I set for myself in that course - tangible, measurable goals - I'm amazed at what I have accomplished. My net worth increased just slightly over the number I had targetted, my relationships improved, my material and personal happiness have increased. And some things didn't pan out - like my business wishes, and the specific residence I wanted. Is any of this attributable to the course I took? Or a woo concept? No way! But is it a stretch to say that perhaps I took away some interesting ideas from the course and personally got my crap together and made some exciting progress in the game of life? Absolutely.

Now - what 'The Secret' appears to have done is repackage some pretty basic motivational stuff - that has been around for YEARS, with a bunch of pseudoscience and claptrap - which is unfortunate.

If it really was as simple as 'visualizing' a cure for cancer, or $1,000,000 to 'manifest' in my bank account, then why the hell do they need to sell the concept for $29.99? And if they really DO have the cure for AIDS and cancer - why aren't they GIVING it away???

Its the height of irresponsibility to suggest you can 'think' away an HIV infection. Does having a positive attitude help you when you are battling a serious illness? I'm sure it doesn't hurt - and it may not be a stretch to assert that people are more likely to recuperate faster if they maintain focussed and positive. But the underlying implication in 'The Secret' is that its OK to go out and participate in high-risk activities because you can simply 'think' away your risk. Absolute hogwash, and shame on Oprah for allowing this asinine idea to be put out there - particularly in light of her 'charitable' work in Africa.

Helping people get on with their life through simple motivation, and suggesting some tools that MIGHT work for them (as weird as they may be - like affirmations or daydreaming about a goal) - this is good, and probably (barely) worthy of a $29.99 price tag. But when wrapped up into this 'magical secret' with crap about quantum physics, life force and 'manifestations' - the good is rapidly undone.

Shame on you Oprah. Can you image just how much better the world COULD be (and how much MORE money you would make) if you genuinely backed products and ideas that had value, rather than crap that is destined to fizzle out in a couple of years after the hype wears off.

-AH.

(For the record - I don't do 'affirmations' or 'visualizations'.)

[Apathia]

To be fair, the responses to that particular post disagreed with the OP's statements and made reasonable points. One poster pointed out that believing the entire medical community to be a bunch of hoaxsters would force him to believe that every single one of them was involved in a massive evil conspiracy--an inherently negative thought that he didn't care to trouble himself with. Another poster urged the OP to listen to skeptics to discern the truth for himself. It isn't fair to lump the group in with that one guy, who seems to have been all alone in his little crazy corner.

Oh, I see now. You're talking about a thread on the Secret Website Forum, not this thread.
Sure, not everyone posting in that forum agrees with the Arbraham-Hicks version of The Secret that blatantly teaches that smoking can only harm you if you believe it's harmful. I know people from 'the crazy corner' who tell me perfect healt is possible if you just realize that illness has no reality.
It makes me sick!

[saganite]

Sorry, my quote-grab confused things. I was responding to this exchange:


Unquestioningly accepting lies and twisted statistics as truth - is that The Secret??
Indeed!

It's a path of mindless denial. "If you don't believe cancer can kill you, it won't."
It's like snake handling. If you do get deathly ill, and prayer doesn't cure you, it's because you don't have strong faith and intent.

Because I don't think that's what MOST people interpret The Secret to be, the twisting around of statistics to suit whatever position people want to take. Mindless denial, perhaps, but my point was that some people seem capable of both embracing the principles of The Secret while also adopting a skeptical attitude about what it should and shouldn't be applied to.

[Apathia]

Because I don't think that's what MOST people interpret The Secret to be, the twisting around of statistics to suit whatever position people want to take. Mindless denial, perhaps, but my point was that some people seem capable of both embracing the principles of The Secret while also adopting a skeptical attitude about what it should and shouldn't be applied to.

Yes, there are people who take it as a kind of pep talk and don't take the hyperbole literaly. I think that's where Oprah is coming from.
But I do know people who tell me it's about "limitless possibilities," and I'm limiting myself if I don't take it in an absolute sense.

[saganite]

If it really was as simple as 'visualizing' a cure for cancer, or $1,000,000 to 'manifest' in my bank account, then why the hell do they need to sell the concept for $29.99? And if they really DO have the cure for AIDS and cancer - why aren't they GIVING it away???

Its the height of irresponsibility to suggest you can 'think' away an HIV infection. Does having a positive attitude help you when you are battling a serious illness? I'm sure it doesn't hurt - and it may not be a stretch to assert that people are more likely to recuperate faster if they maintain focussed and positive. But the underlying implication in 'The Secret' is that its OK to go out and participate in high-risk activities because you can simply 'think' away your risk. Absolute hogwash, and shame on Oprah for allowing this asinine idea to be put out there - particularly in light of her 'charitable' work in Africa.


Antiquehunter, have you read this article (http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2007/03/05/the_secret/?source=email) in Salon? The author takes Oprah to task pretty strongly for the same things you're talking about--the Law of Attraction as the height of social and personal irresponsibility--and she also works up a good head of steam about the fact that anybody would preach the concept of attracting good things by thought alone when survivors of Auschwitz still live today. (I wonder what their reactions were when "The Power of Positive Thinking" hit with the general public a decade after the Holocaust?)

[Mr. Scott]

This whole thing reminds me of Scott Adams of Dilbert fame who wrote in his book "The Dilbert Future" that he owes his success to daily confirmations. He said he wrote 5-10 times a day something like "I will be a world famous cartoonist and have a popular comic series" or something like that (I'm going from memory) and so it happened.

It also reminds me of this ring I have that repels tigers.

The key refutation of these types of claims is that there's no reportage of the people who use daily confirmations that fail to deliver. Jame Carrey talks about how he wrote a check for himself for ten million dollars and carried it around in his wallet. When he won that much for the role in Cable Guy he declared that the check's magic worked. (Carrey, of course, has huge drive and talent which predated him writing that check.) How many people wrote themselves such a check and it never came true? No one is counting them, so the success stories, by themselves, tell us nothing at all about the validity of method.

[doyle]

We better hope the terrorists never get a hold of this amazing secret :D

[polkablues]

Did anybody watch Saturday Night Live last night? They had a sketch about Oprah and "The Secret" that was spot on. Doesn't look like it's on YouTube or anywhere yet, but I'll keep an eye out.

[joobz]

Did anybody watch Saturday Night Live last night? They had a sketch about Oprah and "The Secret" that was spot on. Doesn't look like it's on YouTube or anywhere yet, but I'll keep an eye out.
Just saw it with my wife.:D we have it on our dvr(insight cable). If anyone knows of an easy way to upload it, email me and I'll do it.

It was great. I'm glad the writers see through the insanity that "the secret" is.

[korenyx]

Bookstore employee says:
Buy the Power of Positive Thinking or Think and Grow Rich. Much cheaper and we will won't be sold out ! We love you Oprah! You're not as evil as everyone says and your fans are always such nice people !!!!!

Bookstore people hate Oprah. She never says what she going to have on her show then people get mad when we run out. Absolute Power! People are such herd animals!

kore

[Senex]

A few points - and please don't thrash me or label me a woo.

I have a bit of a background with this stuff.

When I met my partner of 11 years, I was taking what was described as a mid-level management course called 'The Excellence Series'. (He was an employee of the company.) The course was a combination of some Jungian psychological concepts, the notion of self-accountability, goalsetting, communication methods, presentation skills, and some woo-ish crap about relaxation and this notion of 'positive visualization'...



Does meditation equal woo? I think if you are about to undertake a particular event (like hit a golf ball, shoot a free throw or kick a field goal) and you visualize your approach in the past that you used when successful and visualize a positive outcome as you engage in that activity you might be using an effective tool.

As for Jennifer Connelly fans I think 'positive visualization' alone will fall short. You will need a 'God helps those that help themselves' approach and use Borat's Bridal Sack combined with a little logistical preplanning. I was rooting for him to marry Pamela and he came close. If he wasn't Muslim maybe God would have made her bodyguards a step slower and he would have succeeded.

[bonnie]

wrote to her and said she's been dx'd with cancer.

From Oprah.com

After watching the DVD and seeing The Oprah Show about The Secret, Kim wrote to Oprah after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Three doctors told Kim she would have to have a partial radical mastectomy of the right breast and treatment. Kim writes that "after much thought, I have decided to heal myself." Her letter caught Oprah's attention, and she wanted to talk to Kim.

Oprah tells Kim she believes that The Secret is merely a tool; it's not treatment. "The medical community, as we know, have been able to perform what some people call miracles," Oprah says. "And while you're taking advantage of that, think as positively [as you can]. Think about attracting healing to yourself, think about the goodness that the healing will bring to yourself."

Kim says she did not want to make a decision out of fear, but she did take action. Although Kim decided not to have surgery, chemotherapy or radiation treatments, she is working with a doctor who specializes in breast cancer to improve her nutrition and outlook while documenting her health along the way. If it comes down to choosing between her breast or her life, Kim says she chooses her life. "But we do have choices, and I'm making a choice. And in six months' time, I am believing that the cancer will be gone—and if it is not, it has shrunk so much that I can have a lumpectomy not a partial radical mastectomy," Kim says. "It's about holding onto my right for choice."

"What I believe about the law of attraction, I want to clarify it," Oprah says. "I want to say it's a tool. It is not the answer to everything. It is not the answer to atrocities or every tragedy. It is just one law. Not the only law. And certainly, certainly, certainly not a get-rich-quick scheme. The law of attraction is a tool that can help you decide what you want your life to be, and then begin to help you focus on making the best choices through action to create that life."

[Eos of the Eons]

she can backpeddle all she wants. Pandora's box is open.

Positive thinking can be a tool, and proactive action. The secret is just an overblown pseudoscience that people are going to get dissapointed with if they think they can get a bike by just wishing for one.

[Drudgewire]

And certainly, certainly, certainly not a get-rich-quick scheme.
Keep telling yourself that, hon. :p

[bonnie]

Here is a link to the SNL Secret satire

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2017736457

[bonnie]

Dr. Wolf wrote this on his webpage. He is a real quantum physicist who was featured in The Secret.

Writing a Self-Help Book
By Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D.

For those of you who wish to market a new self help book on "the new Secret" of the "law of attraction" I hope you read these thoughts before you go ahead. There are many books out there, even more than I can imagine, written by people who have seen "the secret" or "the bleep" and think they have a unique insight to teach others techniques for personal growth.

I give a lot of seminars, and I personally don't teach people techniques for realizing their potentials and other such ideas as I have found that they simply don't work and are in their own way spiritual "diet books" which may work for a while but in the end fail. Spiritual techniques advocated by people who have never made a serious study of spiritual teaching or base their books on quantum physics principles without studying the subject at length and who really don't know enough to teach others techniques based upon these deeper "secrets" make me really wonder why such people write such books other than the obvious one to make some money. Does your book do other than that? Or are you just another person trying their own hand at writing another imitation "think and grow rich diet book"?

It appears to me that any author who does not understand the quantum field and is only quoting what has been written by others who do understand it and have written for others from the point of view of knowledge, will create a lot of noise and little light. Should your book appear to be written from such a point of view, I would rethink it. Come from your own experience. For example are you a financially successful business person? A book which explains how you made it would be good, but a book advocating spiritual quantum physics techniques based on the quantum field by someone who has no such background in quantum field theory rings a little false to me.

A quantum field consciousness-spirituality and growth book may sound wonderful but it is possibly misleading if you think that this field can give you anything you desire.. First of all the quantum field is not really an energy field and secondly consciousness can not exert a force. Nor is consciousness energy. Consciousness and energy are not the same things at all. Thirdly if everyone could just tune into this hypothetical field and just by doing so create anything they wanted to create, the world would be in a worst mess than it is right now.

For example suppose my neighbor wanted to tune in and create a fence between our two houses higher than my window or have a million dollars appear in his bank account without taking appropriate actions to do so. Innocent enough? But if his wish did create such a fence and the next instant a fence were to appear between our houses or workmen came out and erected one I would lose my view of the mountains. Then I would have to knock down his fence or make a fence low enough to see the mountains and my neighbor would be pissed off at me and on and on our little wish-duel would go. If he just wished for a million bucks to magically appear in his account without appropriate actions, maybe it would appear, but if it did in my account, I would suspect the bank had made a serious error and that someone else was out a million bucks. If I didn't care and only wanted my selfish desires satisfied, the world again would be worse off. Do you get my point here?

The real quantum field has such checks and balances and in fact when it creates from nothing a particle of matter it also creates a particle of antimatter and they cancel each other out in a very short instance. Hence just wishing for things from this field does not make it so.
Our universe works and things are always balancing each other to make it work--such are the laws of nature.

Hence in a world where "wishes were horses" would simply not work. Your creation could very well by an other's annihilation. Let me put this another way.

Reading a self-help book written by someone who really doesn't understand the nature of reality is like listening to someone play a violin who watched a great master play a violin in a silent movie and decided to play for real by just imitating what she or he saw. Undoubtedly it would sound like something near to what the master was playing, but it would give many false notes. Is your book ringing out false notes? Such books appear to me to be like that. Oh by the way, I get a lot of requests to blurb such books, nearly one a day so the field may be getting glutted. Fred Alan Wolf, PhD

[Apathia]

Thanks Bonnie!
I haven't been to "Dr. Quantum"'s webpage in quite some time as I felt he was playing a little too fast and loose with physics.
But this is an excellent piece by him, that shows me he's distancing himself from the Bleep/Secret nonsense.

[slyjoe]

I'm not so sure Hyparxis. He is also touting his time travel through yoga book.

[Eos of the Eons]

hmmm. I'm just finding it humerous when the secret just doesn't work for someone.

For instance, when there is a draw. There's twenty people out of 50 "using the secret" so that their number is drawn. One of the people not "using the secret" wins.
Funny!

Love the SNL secret satire.

-Why didn't you read the book?

-Because I ate it.

Lots of sense in Bonnie's post. I wish the Dr. Wolf would address these maroons: http://www.biof.com/biofeedback.html
http://www.lifesystemdevice.com/

Heck, there's bazillions of machines that will tune into your frequency and make you PERFECT.

[Apathia]

Heck, there's bazillions of machines that will tune into your frequency and make you PERFECT.

Look what they did for Sanjaya!

[Apathia]

I'm not so sure Hyparxis. He is also touting his time travel through yoga book.

Then he's only changed his superhero uniform.

[Eos of the Eons]

Look what they did for Sanjaya!What? He owns one?
:covereyes

[Apathia]

What? He owns one?
:covereyes

He, as most Americans, owns one of the "bazillions of machines that will tune into your frequency and make you PERFECT." They are called "idiot boxes."

[sophia8]

wrote to her and said she's been dx'd with cancer.


Kim says she did not want to make a decision out of fear, but she did take action. Although Kim decided not to have surgery, chemotherapy or radiation treatments, she is working with a doctor who specializes in breast cancer to improve her nutrition and outlook while documenting her health along the way. If it comes down to choosing between her breast or her life, Kim says she chooses her life. "But we do have choices, and I'm making a choice. And in six months' time, I am believing that the cancer will be gone—and if it is not, it has shrunk so much that I can have a lumpectomy not a partial radical mastectomy," Kim says. "It's about holding onto my right for choice."Then she's making the choice to die. If a breast tumour is not treated with surgery, chemotherapy or radiation, it will not go way. It will grow. And grow. And grow.
Here's a cancer surgeon's account (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/10/death_by_alternative_medicine_whos_to_bl.php) of what happened to a woman who made Kim's choice:Apparently, this woman is a die-hard altie. And I do mean "die hard," as she will quite likely die very hard for her beliefs. She absolutely refused any surgery or treatment for her cancer. It was explained to her that a less than 1 cm tumor with no evidence of spread to the lymph nodes carried a highly favorable prognosis, with upwards of 93% long term survival with proper surgery and adjuvant chemotherapy and/or hormonal therapy.
This woman would have none of it. She wanted to pursue "alternative" medicine. And pursue it she did, with a vengeance. For three years, she disappeared off the radar screen.
A few weeks ago, she reappeared in this surgeon's office. In the interim, she had tried Essiac tea, homeopathy, the Hoxsey therapy, the Gerson treatment, and Reiki therapy, among others, all the while visiting various "healers." The results? If you've been reading here, you can guess the result.
Her tumor had progressed.
Not only had the tumor progressed, but it had progressed a lot. When the surgeon saw her again, now more than three years after her diagnosis, her tumor had grown to 5-6 cm in size. It was now stuck to the chest wall, distorting her nipple, and ulcerating through the skin in a five centimeter area of bleeding, disgusting goo. Indeed, the surgeon even showed a picture of it. In addition, she had developed easily palpable axillary lymph nodes (the lymph nodes under the arm) on physical exam and complained of bone pain strongly suggestive of metastases to the bone. Even if she did not now have metatastic disease to the bone, her chances of cure had been vastly diminished, as she had clearly moved up from a highly curable clinical Stage I to a difficult to cure clinical stage IIIC. (If she had bone metastases, she was no longer curable at all.) This patient was in serious trouble. You would think that, finally--finally--she would have realized her mistake in not having gone with surgery and conventional medicine.
You would be mistaken.
The patient still steadfastly refused all surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation. Against all evidence that the course she had chosen thus far had not resulted in the elimination of her tumor that she expected, she nonetheless insisted on continuing with various alternative medicine treatments. Against all evidence to the contrary, she continued to refuse any form of "conventional medicine." She still believed that her " healer" could save her life, even though she now had a large, bleeding, stinking mass in her breast stuck to her chest wall that had three years ago been a pea-sized cancer that could have easily been excised with a small surgical procedure. She was well on her way to dying in the horrific way that so many women died of this disease 100 years ago.
Somebody should forward this to Oprah.

[bonnie]

So when you say it keeps its small size because it's observed, by what? "God"? Consciousness?
Answer: Great question. That is the big mystery. It has been a research goal for me to find out. I am sure other physicists are equally interested and pondering this. In a certain sense atomic electrons are observed weakly be humans when they observe objects made of atoms in their everyday lives. Once a thing is observed having any mass at all, for example, a mass of a pea, that object tends to not spread very fast and only doubles its probable size in a universal lifetime of 20 billion years or so. But for smaller objects the time is much shorter--a gate molecule in the human nervous system doubles in 0.2 millisecond or so. From this varied time of doubling, and the fact that we do observe consequences of such doublings in quantum physics (the double slit experiment is just one experiment showing this--the electron becomes spread out over an area to cover two slits), we must conclude that an observer lurks somewhere. I like to think of it as the mind of God or the vacuum state of the universe--as capable of making all the observations needed to keep the universe looking more or less as it does. The fact that we can also observe things and see quantum physics consequences, just means that we are sharing God's mind.

Ugh! My husband, who has a degree in physics from a long time ago, nearly cried. He then explained what is meant by an observer. It's no wonder people are confused out there.

[Eos of the Eons]

I like the story about Rudy Ruettiger. He had a goal, overcame great obstacles and negativity, and succeeded to the point where he was successful. He had to work DARN hard to do it though.

I guess that is what I hate the most about these overblown pseudotheories about making everything go your way. There isn't an "easy" way, just some way to set a goal and achieve it.

You can achieve that goal honestly or underhanded too. You can inspire others or tromp on them.

I feel that people who get money and attention for offering "easy" way outs are just undermining those who are true heroes.

We need real solutions and real answers to actually get somewhere. Quite often that takes hard work and a drive to achieve a goal.

[Ladewig]

Then she's making the choice to die. If a breast tumour is not treated with surgery, chemotherapy or radiation, it will not go way. It will grow. And grow. And grow.
Here's a cancer surgeon's account (http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2006/10/death_by_alternative_medicine_whos_to_bl.php) of what happened to a woman who made Kim's choice:
Somebody should forward this to Oprah.

The next time a believer shows up here and asks why we skeptics cannot be more open-minded, I will provide an active link to your post.

[Apathia]

So when you say it keeps its small size because it's observed, by what? "God"? Consciousness?
Answer: Great question. That is the big mystery. It has been a research goal for me to find out. I am sure other physicists are equally interested and pondering this. In a certain sense atomic electrons are observed weakly be humans when they observe objects made of atoms in their everyday lives. Once a thing is observed having any mass at all, for example, a mass of a pea, that object tends to not spread very fast and only doubles its probable size in a universal lifetime of 20 billion years or so. But for smaller objects the time is much shorter--a gate molecule in the human nervous system doubles in 0.2 millisecond or so. From this varied time of doubling, and the fact that we do observe consequences of such doublings in quantum physics (the double slit experiment is just one experiment showing this--the electron becomes spread out over an area to cover two slits), we must conclude that an observer lurks somewhere. I like to think of it as the mind of God or the vacuum state of the universe--as capable of making all the observations needed to keep the universe looking more or less as it does. The fact that we can also observe things and see quantum physics consequences, just means that we are sharing God's mind.

Ugh! My husband, who has a degree in physics from a long time ago, nearly cried. He then explained what is meant by an observer. It's no wonder people are confused out there.

Ugh! Precisly! I don't understnd how this man can be a physicist and be so far off the mark.

[Apathia]

A fomer, now late, working colleague of mine was seeing a psychic healer who kept reporting to her that her breast cancer was in remission. Meanwhile it was growing and metastisizing.
Too late she agreed to surgery and chemo.

[bonnie]

A similar situation involved a classmate of mine who went to an energy healer who "closed an energy leak" but, obviously, failed to diagnose Hodgkin's disease. When my classmate started having pain, it was an oncologist who made the correct Dx but it was too late. Murray died a year later.

[Apathia]

I recently urged a dear and new agey friend to dreal with a tumor on her pancreras right away. She wanted to prograstenate and get some acupuncture first.
I'm happy to report that she took my advice, It turned out that the tumor was malignant, but the cancer was still contained, and now it's out and gone thanks to the surgery.