Looks Like Most of the Jersey Girls Really Are Woo-Woos

[Brainster]

9-11 Press for Truth was clearly done by a kook (Kyle Hence) with the 9-11 Deniers in mind, but I was somewhat on the fence as to whether that's what the Jersey Girls intended. But judging by this article (http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.muckrakerrepo rt.com%2Fid358.html), they've gone woo-woo themselves:

Many of the original questions put to the 9/11 Commission by the Family Steering Committee have since become staples of what’s known as the 9/11 truth movement. For instance, as the widows point out, exactly what made WTC 7 collapse when it was never hit by a plane is still just as much of an enigma today as it was prior to the 9/11 Commission, and they also wonder why NORAD’s protocols weren’t followed during the attacks. Moreover, they find it strange that 9/11 isn’t listed on Osama bin Laden’s FBI most wanted poster, when the 1998 U.S. embassy bombings in Africa are. (In June of 2006, Muckraker Report editor Ed Haas spoke on the phone with Rex Tomb, Chief of Investigative Publicity for the FBI, who told him the reason why 9/11 wasn’t listed on the poster was because Osama bin Laden had never been formally indicted by the Justice Department in connection with 9/11 and the FBI has no hard evidence linking him to the attacks).

“There are just so many unanswered questions,” says Van Auken. “I would say you need roughly 400 hours of research to graduate from 9/11 kindergarten class. That’s why it’s so hard to keep people on the same page, because they’re coming at this issue from a million different angles. A friend might tell them about building 7, or they might watch Loose Change on the internet, or they’ll say, ‘Hold it a second, you can’t make cell phone calls from an airplane.’ And then suddenly a little alarm bell goes off in their brain, and they say, ‘Wow, we don’t know the whole story about this.’ That’s all it takes, the little alarm bell, and then, bam, welcome to the place we’ve been living in for the last six years.”

Note: Perhaps the most famous of the Jersey Girls, Kristen Breitweiser, was not associated with the 9-11 Press for Truth movie and is not quoted in the article.

[WildCat]

The Jersey Girls had their moment in the spotlight during the '04 presidential campaign, sadly they now look for publicity wherever they can find it since the Dems no longer have a use for them.

[VespaGuy]

...9/11 kindergarten class...

Looks like she summed up the entire trooth movement in one phrase.

[bizarro John Conner]

The Jersey Girls had their moment in the spotlight during the '04 presidential campaign, sadly they now look for publicity wherever they can find it since the Dems no longer have a use for them.


Ann Coulter touched on them in her book 'Godless'.

I agreed with what she had to say about them..

[firecoins]

Ann Coulter touched on them in her book 'Godless'.

I agreed with what she had to say about them..
what did she say about them?

[Alt+F4]

If the Jersey Girls are saying that calls couldn't be placed from the planes, well that's just another nail in the "truth" movement's coffin. If the argument is going to be, "my husband really was killed on 9/11 but your husband wasn't", it's going to turn into an ugly mess.

[jhunter1163]

Didn't she call them "harpies" or something along those lines and almost get lynched for it?

[Alt+F4]

She said in regard to The Jersey Girls, "I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much", and
"by the way, how do we know their husbands weren't planning to divorce these harpies? Now that their shelf life is dwindling, they'd better hurry up and appear in Playboy. . ."


Totally inapproiate, goes way over the top.

[Pardalis]

What exactly are their unanswered questions?

[WildCat]

What exactly are their unanswered questions?
When you adopt the troofer credo "ask questions, ignore the answers" it's all of them.

[Arus808]

the same woo-woo questions that have been answered; and they are unwilling to accept.

actually, they just want to know why the government ignored the many warnings about the building of a terroristic threat against the US> all of which of cousre was answered in the 9/11 commission report; you know the report that they fought tooth and nail to get additional funding for and are still unhappy about its findings.

[Pardalis]

Maybe someone should direct them to the various sources that have answered their questions:

http://forums.randi.org/local_links.php?catid=18

[CurtC]

Why would the Jersey Girls be concerned with WTC7?

[Pardalis]

Why would the Jersey Girls be concerned with WTC7?

The Truth Movement got to them.

Thanks Truth Movement, for making these women's grief even more painful. :mad:

[Brainster]

What exactly are their unanswered questions?

In 9-11 Press For Truth, the first question they raised was why were the planes flying around for "almost two hours" without a response from the Air Force. Of course, the planes were not flying around off course for two hours, and the most advance warning NEADS had prior to the crash was something like 7 minutes for Flight 11 (the first plane to crash). They even bring up the Payne Stewart example (which shows they're not quite out of 9-11 kindergarten).

The second question they asked, no kidding, was why did it take the Secret Service so long to get the president out of that elementary school? And the third question, seriously, was why didn't the 9-11 Commission explain what happened to WTC 7?

By that point I knew it was aimed at the Woosers, which is why they've embraced it even though it supposedly doesn't advocate any of their kooky conspiracy theories. But I've always kind of thought the Jersey Girls weren't aware of the CT subtext that Hence was pushing.

[WildCat]

“What I saw on 9/11 totally flew in the face of everything I thought this country was about,” says Casazza. “For the people standing crowded and on their own in the opening of the broken windows of the towers, there were no police, Coast Guard, or military helicopters. They could have at least been thrown parachutes so that they could have attempted their own rescue.
With questions like these, the answers are so obvious... and I don't think you could ever run out of such questions.

[Arus808]

omg...thrown them their own parachutes? this is why "family members" shouldn't be on any "new" investigation team. They'll be like the people on Survivor; too much in the way to get anything done.

[The Doc]

I have all the respect in the world for the Jersey girls,

But they have been misguided. I can only hope they find a way to deal with such a horrible loss over time, but they are asking all the wrong questions.

[Childlike Empress]

@Brainster: If this film is so "woo-woo", why did you lie about its content? And why do you so want to prevent people from seeing it?

Here it is. Brainster said it has a "huge focus" on WTC7. Judge for yourself:

5589099104255077250

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250

[babazaroni]

Here it is. Brainster said it has a "huge focus" on WTC7. Judge for yourself:


You quoted "huge focus", yet I could not find Brainster or anyone else saying this.

[Childlike Empress]

You quoted "huge focus", yet I could not find Brainster or anyone else saying this.

Yes, sorry, i was referring to this totally made-up paragraph written by Brainster some weeks ago:

There's also a huge focus on WTC-7, which shows that this is just a CT film trying to masquerade as legitimate questions from the widows. Why do they care about WTC-7 when none of their husbands died there--when in fact nobody died there? It's irrelevant to what really happened that day unless you're a CT nut and don't believe the hijackers existed, and the buildings were brought down with controlled demolition.

[Childlike Empress]

Interesting, isn't it, babazaroni?

[Brainster]

You are correct Childlike. I was startled that they got into WTC 7 about 12 minutes into the movie and inflated that to "huge focus". Essentially, as I have pointed out, it was the third area they covered in the film. But you are correct, it's really a small part of the film despite the position.

[Childlike Empress]

You did several postings on the subject before you told us that "Press for Truth" has a "huge focus on WTC7". The search function seems to be ooo atm, but i don't buy the "i didn't know what i was talking about"-excuse, Brainster. You lied.

[CptColumbo]

There was a documentary on HBO, part of the "America Undercover" series, dealing with a father telling his son that the boy's mom (his ex-wife) was killed on 9-11. Part of it dealt with the sister being upset that the father would now get custody of the son. She objected to his Pentecostal beliefs, and thought they might damage the boy psychologically. However, she then started talking about how Nostradamus predicted 9-11 in one of his quatranes.

You make the call!

[Brainster]

You did several postings on the subject before you told us that "Press for Truth" has a "huge focus on WTC7". The search function seems to be ooo atm, but i don't buy the "i didn't know what i was talking about"-excuse, Brainster. You lied.

Nope, misremembered. I remembered being surprised at the WTC 7 mention in the film, given that's the collapse nobody died in, that everybody anticipated, and that nobody but a Troofer finds significant. I see all of these films within a couple weeks of their coming out thanks to BG, the comments page truth spammer on SLC. The post you point to for my comment is from January 17th of this year; my first post on 9-11 PFT (http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2006/09/9-11-press-for-truth-analysis-part-i.html) on the blog is from September 23, 2006 about four months earlier, and about 13 days after the film was released to Google (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=press+for+truth). That's when I saw it.

[Childlike Empress]

Sure. The search function is available to every member of this forum.

And so is "Press for truth".

BTW, you had the chance to correct me. I choosed a smilie back then (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2266731&postcount=18) instead of calling you a liar.

[gumboot]

I don't know why any of this would surprise anyone. Losing a loved one in a sudden tragic way does not abruptly make one sudden incredibly insightful, intelligent, scientific, and skeptical. Usually it makes you emotional and irrational.

The fact is there are literally thousands of people out there who are direct relatives of 9/11 victims. Statistically a chunk of them will be woos. Their loss will only enhance their woo.

Aside from the fact that their questions show they really know very little about 9/11 (despite professing to have researched it every day for years), it seems pretty clear to me the Jersey Girls wanted the 9/11 Commission to go something like this:

"Person X was the one who failed to stop 9/11 happening, and it's person X's fault your loved ones died. Person X will be punished accordingly."

Because (gasp, shock horror!) no one was really responsible for 9/11 except the terrorists who did it, the Jersey Girls didn't get to hang anyone from a tree. So just like a clansman whose negro got away, they're pissed.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Sure. The search function is available to every member of this forum.

And so is "Press for truth".

BTW, you had the chance to correct me. I choosed a smilie back then (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2266731&postcount=18) instead of calling you a liar.


CLE, get over it, please. The documentary is lame. It's not even worth debunking because it debunks itself so thoroughly.

I mean, really.

-Gumboot

[Childlike Empress]

Are you still opposed to world peace, gummi?

[Arus808]

what kind of loose connection claim is that?

[Brainster]

Are you still opposed to world peace, gummi?

Damn world peace to hell!

Oh, world peace? I thought you meant this ant in my pantry.

[gumboot]

Are you still opposed to world peace, gummi?

what kind of loose connection claim is that?



I'm opposed to world peace because it's only achievable if one culture completely supresses and controls all others under a single government. Like happened with the Roman Empire.

So yeah, CLE, I'm still opposed to world peace.

Have you learned how to express real opinions yet?

-Gumboot

[Childlike Empress]

Yeah, thanks gummi. I thought you are not interested in opinions?

[Gravy]

Leave Childlike alone. She needs to concentrate on finishing that book that she's been halfway through for 8 months. :D

[westprog]

She said in regard to The Jersey Girls, "I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much", and
"by the way, how do we know their husbands weren't planning to divorce these harpies? Now that their shelf life is dwindling, they'd better hurry up and appear in Playboy. . ."


Totally inapproiate, goes way over the top.

Coulter's attack on women who lost their husbands in the WTC attacks was typical of a women who's intentionally stupid and offensive.

However, anyone who gives credence to the idea that the calls from 93 were faked is doing essentially the same thing. It's accusing the people who recieved those calls of either lying or being deluded.

[Childlike Empress]

@gravy: WOOOT? A liar & a sociapath, exposed, and you still want me to carry on for today? Mean. :(

[Gravy]

@gravy: WOOOT? A liar & a sociapath, exposed, and you still want me to carry on for today? Mean. :(I've read hundreds and hundreds of posts by Brainster (Pat) and gumboot (Andrew), and have found their arguments to be well-founded. They are smart and they do their homework. I may at rare times disagree with how those arguments are framed (comparing the Jersey girls to Klansmen isn't apt, IMO), but I seldom disagree with their conclusions. Your characterizations of them as liars and sociopaths is wrong.

[The Doc]

Leave Childlike alone. She needs to concentrate on finishing that book that she's been halfway through for 8 months. :D

:p

This is a bit off topic but that reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb-DNXEvKdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_X74l_aCW8

[Childlike Empress]

@gravy: My characterization of gummi as a sociopath maybe worth interpreting but calling Brainster a Liar doesn't seem farfetched if you look at this thread and the links (and the search function), does it?

[Gravy]

:p

This is a bit off topic but that reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb-DNXEvKdc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_X74l_aCW8That is brutally funny.

[Childlike Empress]

so is this (the gummitwist):

2Cphb9R1hFw

cu, folks. I had great fun.

[Gravy]

@gravy: My characterization of gummi as a sociopath maybe worth interpreting but calling Brainster a Liar doesn't seem farfetched if you look at this thread and the links (and the search function), does it?Your characterization of gumboot as a sociopath isn't worth interpreting. It's idiotic. You have chosen to call Brainster a liar because he overstated the emphasis of Press for Truth on WTC 7. You have not chosen to demonstrate what Press for Truth gets right.

Proceed.

[Gravy]

so is this (the gummitwist):

2Cphb9R1hFw

cu, folks. I had great fun.Well, Anna, since it's music video time, here's Marianne Faithfull in the French TV film "Anna," circa 1967. (Yes, I'm a cinemaphile and occasional Ye-Ye girl music collector).

Ch4J7B0ccvw

[orphia nay]

Are you still opposed to world peace, gummi?

Sheesh, somebody has to say it: CE, have you stopped beating your er, children yet?
:rolleyes:

[orphia nay]

I don't know why any of this would surprise anyone. Losing a loved one in a sudden tragic way does not abruptly make one sudden incredibly insightful, intelligent, scientific, and skeptical. Usually it makes you emotional and irrational.

The fact is there are literally thousands of people out there who are direct relatives of 9/11 victims. Statistically a chunk of them will be woos. Their loss will only enhance their woo.

Aside from the fact that their questions show they really know very little about 9/11 (despite professing to have researched it every day for years), it seems pretty clear to me the Jersey Girls wanted the 9/11 Commission to go something like this:

"Person X was the one who failed to stop 9/11 happening, and it's person X's fault your loved ones died. Person X will be punished accordingly."

Because (gasp, shock horror!) no one was really responsible for 9/11 except the terrorists who did it, the Jersey Girls didn't get to hang anyone from a tree. So just like a clansman whose negro got away, they're pissed.

-Gumboot


Excellent post, Gumboot. Something that needed to be said. (Well, maybe except for the last sentence, anyway. :boggled: )

[JimBenArm]

Are you still opposed to world peace, gummi?
Envision Whirled Peas!

[Childlike Empress]

Sheesh, somebody has to say it: CE, have you stopped beating your er, children yet?
:rolleyes:

I was referring to a statement (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2149023&postcount=168) gummi really made (and defended here). Pay attention.

[Gravy]

I was referring to a statement (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=2149023&postcount=168) gummi really made (and defended here). Pay attention.No, Childlike, it is you who isn't paying attention. Gumboot was responding to Oliver's suggestion that the Jews in Israel might be moved elsewhere in the interest of world peace. Try reading the whole thread, or at least this page: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=2149016#post2149016

[Childlike Empress]

I 've read (quite) the whole thread. He later elaborates on his statement. Your arrogance is disgusting, Gravy. Who do you think you are?

[Gravy]

I 've read (quite) the whole thread. He later elaborates on his statement. Your arrogance is disgusting, Gravy. Who do you think you are?Tell us what his elaboration is, Childlike. Go ahead. Post it. And do you think that seven million Jews should be moved from Israel in the name of world peace?

[Childlike Empress]

Who is "us", Gravy? Most people are able to click on the link i provided.

[David Wong]

Ann Coulter could tell me that vitamins are good for me and I'd be tempted to reject it. She has to play this character because it has made her career, but her personality and nastiness is so off-putting that even good points get lost.

I almost hate to see her say something I agree with because I know her personality immediately disqualifies it to lots of people. So yes, at the core she was right about how it's wrong to use the 9/11 widows in a political campaign, and how those cheap emotional appeals and exploited victms do nothing to advance debate.

But then she thinks she has to take the truth and dip it in a batter of hateful insults and fry it up before anybody will want to consume it. And maybe she's right, the way people are these days. But the reality is she poisons everything she says and undoes whatever good she thinks she's doing for her cause. Same with Michael Moore. Even if he says something that's right, I find myself not wanting to be believing the same thing as someone that dishonest and hateful.

[Alt+F4]

Your arrogance is disgusting, Gravy. Who do you think you are?

If you're so offended why don't you just put Gravy and Gummi on ignore?

[Childlike Empress]

I put no one on ignore. And i like playing with them.

[Alt+F4]

I almost hate to see her say something I agree with because I know her personality immediately disqualifies it to lots of people.

Yes. If she had just criticized The Jersey Girls politics I think many people would have agreed with her. But once you make comments regarding the level and sincerity of someone's personal grief, no one cares what you have to say anymore.

She thinks that political discourse is grounds for character assassination. How dare anyone make a comment on the condition of a strangers marriage.

Maybe she's disinfo agent because she sure ain't helping the Republicans gain new fans.

[TC329]

The Jersey Girls had their moment in the spotlight during the '04 presidential campaign, sadly they now look for publicity wherever they can find it since the Dems no longer have a use for them.


Why am I not surprised to see a thread on JREF where family members of 9/11 victims are insulted for not blindly supporting the criminals responsilbe?


Go read your Ann Coulter book some more.

[Oliver]

I 've read (quite) the whole thread. He later elaborates on his statement. Your arrogance is disgusting, Gravy. Who do you think you are?

Who are you? And what's your Nick at
LCF, Mei Murasane?

[JimBenArm]

I 've read (quite) the whole thread. He later elaborates on his statement. Your arrogance is disgusting, Gravy. Who do you think you are?
Seems we could say much the same thing about you, Childlike Intellect.

[WildCat]

Why am I not surprised to see a thread on JREF where family members of 9/11 victims are insulted for not blindly supporting the criminals responsilbe?
When did I ever insult anyone for not supporting al Qaeda?

Go read your Ann Coulter book some more.
Never read her book, never listened to/seen her show. Actually never even heard of her before someone on this forum mentioned her a few years ago. Nice strawman though.

[Pardalis]

Childlike, I don't understand why you are so angry. Despite the fact that you dislike their attitude and personal opinions on things, have you read any of the facts that have been brought by these people you are attacking on this thread, facts and logical arguments that have completely debunked 9/11 conspiracies or at the very least, made them extremely unlikely?

It's true that most people here are hostile to Truthers, and we are making fun of them, but that's because Truthers refuse to acknowledge that all the questions they ask have been answered thoroughly, and all the facts that they bring to the table have been shown to be completelty wrong and unsubstanciated, and often utter lies. That is what "we" are making fun of.

When has a JREFer ever lied, distorted facts and been wrong? Why aren't you angry at the Truthers instead?

[jhunter1163]

[Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan]

Saavik (CLE): You lied?!
Spock (Brainster): I exaggerated.

[/Star Trek II: The Wrath Of Khan]

[Childlike Empress]

When has a JREFer ever lied, distorted facts and been wrong? Why aren't you angry at the Truthers instead?

Read this thread, Pardalis. Brainster did one of those, choose for yourself which one it was. I told what i think. If people reclaim the moral highground for them, they should apply to their own standard. If not, i'll call them on it.

And i assure you that i'm not angry, neighter at the people here nor at "the truthers" (while some of them are behaving disgusting and don't have my sympathy).

[TC329]

When did I ever insult anyone for not supporting al Qaeda?


Never read her book, never listened to/seen her show. Actually never even heard of her before someone on this forum mentioned her a few years ago. Nice strawman though.

1) Who brought 'Al Qaeda' into this?

2) Since you want to bring them into this do you remember when 'Al Qaeda' was the good guys and we called them the 'Muhajideen' and trianed, financed, & funded them?

3) The comment about them wanting publicity just reminded me of Ann Coulter stating "9/11 was the best thing to ever happen to them".......

[WildCat]

1) Who brought 'Al Qaeda' into this?
You did.

2) Since you want to bring them into this do you remember when 'Al Qaeda' was the good guys and we called them the 'Muhajideen' and trianed, financed, & funded them?
Nope. al Qaeda did not exist then. The US covertly aided local Afghani warlords - not Arabs and other foreigners. OBL himself denies ever being aided by the CIA. Nice try at spreading lies though TC.

3) The comment about them wanting publicity just reminded me of Ann Coulter stating "9/11 was the best thing to ever happen to them".......
Sounds like your problem.

[Pardalis]

Read this thread, Pardalis. Brainster did one of those, choose for yourself which one it was.

That's what we call an honest mistake. He admitted it and corrected it.

A minor problem solved quickly.

Why so uptight about such an unimportant detail?

ETA: Why aren't you more upset about the "pull it" lie that has been repeated time and time again for years by the Truth movement instead?

[WildCat]

Why so uptight about such an unimportant detail?
Unimportant details are all they have left, everything else in the troof movement has been debunked 9 ways to Sunday. On SLC I challenged a troofer to find a single error in the 9/11 Commission report, all they were able to do was find a footnote that said the core was a hollow steel shaft in which the elevators were located.

Thus, the current state of the troof movement.

[TC329]

Nope. al Qaeda did not exist then. The US covertly aided local Afghani warlords - not Arabs and other foreigners. OBL himself denies ever being aided by the CIA. Nice try at spreading lies though TC.

Spreading lies? lol!

You're all cut from the same cloth around here, ain't no doubt about that.

It's been historical fact that we trained, financed, & armed the Afghan resistance for decades. Now in this post 9/11 Orwellian world where yesterday becomes rewritten for convienance you can make any claim you would like. But those who have been paying attention all along know the truth. Yugoslavia as well.

OBL quotes :


Source: Khilafah.com, 10 Oct 2001

I have already said that I am not involved in the 11 September attacks in the United States. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge of these attacks, nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act. Islam strictly forbids causing harm to innocent women, children and other people. Such a practice is forbidden even in the course of a battle.

Whoever committed the act of 11 September are not the friends of the American people. I have already said that we are against the American system, not against its people, whereas in these attacks, the common American people have been killed. According to my information, the death toll is much higher than what the U.S. Government has stated. But the Bush Administration does not want the panic to spread. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; the people who are a part of the U.S. system, but are dissenting against it. Or those who are working for some other system; persons who want to make the present century as a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity so that their own civilization, nation, country, or ideology could survive.


You take his word that he was never aided by the CIA, do you take his word he was not involved in the 9/11 attacks?

Even the mainstream media has to acknowledge Bin Laden being CIA.

From MSNBC (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3340101/)


Bin Laden Comes Home to Roost:

His CIA ties are only the beginning of a woeful story.

NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 1998 - At the CIA, it happens often enough to have a code name: Blowback. Simply defined, this is the term describing an agent, an operative or an operation that has turned on its creators. Osama bin Laden, our new public enemy Number 1, is the personification of blowback. And the fact that he is viewed as a hero by millions in the Islamic world proves again the old adage: Reap what you sow.


Declassified documents have shown when he was brought into the CIA under his father's business partner's reign as it's head his codename was Tim Osman.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/osama_alias.gif

And this is just a drop of water in the ocean as to the mountains of evidence which support everything I have stated previously.

Better decide if OBL is telling the truth when you like what he hears or he is always lying. If someone's a liar you can't pick and choose when you want to believe they're telling the truth.

Stick to spitting in the face's of the victim's families of the 9/11 Operation who question you're supreme leaders administrations involvement in it, you're much better at that.............

[jhunter1163]

That sure doesn't look like a US government document to me. Since when does the USG write "Just a simple and continuing reminder.."

[WildCat]

OBL quotes :


Source: Khilafah.com, 10 Oct 2001
So al Qaeda doesn't kill innocent women and children now? What a joke! If he did say that, he's lying. All the videos and audio recordings have him admitting it, and gloating about it.


Declassified documents have shown when he was brought into the CIA under his father's business partner's reign as it's head his codename was Tim Osman.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/osama_alias.gif

What is that supposed to be? Where is it from?

[stateofgrace]

Spreading lies? lol!

You're all cut from the same cloth around here, ain't no doubt about that.

It's been historical fact that we trained, financed, & armed the Afghan resistance for decades. Now in this post 9/11 Orwellian world where yesterday becomes rewritten for convienance you can make any claim you would like. But those who have been paying attention all along know the truth. Yugoslavia as well.



Really?

I thought it was historical fact that the Afghanistan /soviet war only went of for ten years and not decades. I also thought it was an historical fact that the Afghan Arab fighters pulled out at the same time as the soviets and the CIA.

The CIA who have openly admitted they funded the Mujhadeen, it is no secret, it is historical fact they were fighting the same enemy as the Arab Afghans, that being the Soviets. Ever heard of the cold war?

I also thought it was an historical fact that UBL then went to Sudan, after not only having his Saudi citizenship removed and actually being wanted by the Saudi Authorities.

I also thought it was an historical fact his family disowned him and I also thought it was an historical fact that Al Qaeda did not even exist during the Afghanistan war.

Hey what do history books know eh?

ETA...........

If you are accusing the Bin Laden Family of being terrorists, provide your proof.

If you are accusing the CIA of funding Al Qaeda provide your proof.

If you accusing the CIA of aiding Al Qaeda, assisting them in any way, provide your proof.

If you are accusing the CIA of financing OBL whist in Sudan, provide your proof.

Incidentally pal, the Bin Laden family are highly respected people, they have donated literally millions to charities across the globe. They have donated literally millions to building the Saudi Arabian infrastructure. They have set up schools and hospitals through their charities. They are not guilty by family ties; they have thoroughly condemned OBL for his actions and they are thoroughly respectable and honest people.

[T.A.M.]

TC329:

Amazing how this thread pulled you out of the lurk and into the fray again.

World Politics is a funny thing. I could careless if the USA funded Al-Qaeda in the past. Does doing so mean they can never be the enemy, that the USA could never become their enemy. You make it sound like to fund them was to enter a lifelong friendship with them.

FACT: 19 Arab Hijackers hijacked planes on 9/11 and ran them into buildings.
Show me one piece of definitive physical evidence that proves this to be false, or else shut up.

TAM

Edit: And if I hear one more truther Kook talk about Orwell I think I'll physically come through the computer and stuff a hard cover version of 1984 up their...

TAM

[TC329]

Really?

I thought it was historical fact that the Afghanistan /soviet war only went of for ten years and not decades. I also thought it was an historical fact that the Afghan Arab fighters pulled out at the same time as the soviets and the CIA.


"It's been historical fact that we trained, financed, & armed the Afghan resistance for decades."

Let me try that again, it's been a historical fact for decades (meaning multiple groupings of ten year periods) that we trained, financed, & armed the Muhajideen. Now do you comprehend it better?

The CIA who have openly admitted they funded the Mujhadeen, it is no secret, it is historical fact they were fighting the same enemy as the Arab Afghans, that being the Soviets. Ever heard of the cold war?

Yes, the Muhajideen received the majority of it's financing from the Ministry of Information based in Pakistan and at the time oversaw by no other than OBL himself. The CIA gave Bin Laden the funds, he in turned used it to create 'Al Qaeda' V1.0. When the Muhajideen becomes a black op they become known as 'Al Qaeda' or as translated in Arab speaking countries 'The Toilet Bowl'.

I also thought it was an historical fact that UBL then went to Sudan, after not only having his Saudi citizenship removed and actually being wanted by the Saudi Authorities.

Yep and then the Sudanese Government offered him to the Clinton Administration on 3 seperate occassions but they had no desire to arrest and incarcerate a CIA asset. Furthermore, The Taliban also made an offer as a sign of good faith to do the same thing but their offer was also rejected by the criminal Clinton Administration. And I would like to find one person here who still believes OBL is a main priority of the Bush Administration's war on terror. Bush doesn't want to kill or arrest a CIA asset. And I'm sure many people here will use the Orwellian Media & Bush Administration comments that OBL 'isn't really important'..........

I also thought it was an historical fact his family disowned him and I also thought it was an historical fact that Al Qaeda did not even exist during the Afghanistan war.

Hey what do history books know eh?

Think his family disowned him because of his CIA role? Kind of tarnishes the family name, doesn't it. Not that it matters, the Bin Laden family name is as tarnished as the Bush Administration family name and yet they both continue to generate profits as long as their children wage war against each other.

ETA...........

If you are accusing the Bin Laden Family of being terrorists, provide your proof.

If you are accusing the CIA of funding Al Qaeda provide your proof.

If you accusing the CIA of aiding Al Qaeda, assisting them in any way, provide your proof.

If you are accusing the CIA of financing OBL whist in Sudan, provide your proof.

Incidentally pal, the Bin Laden family are highly respected people, they have donated literally millions to charities across the globe. They have donated literally millions to building the Saudi Arabian infrastructure. They have set up schools and hospitals through their charities. They are not guilty by family ties; they have thoroughly condemned OBL for his actions and they are thoroughly respectable and honest people.

You're a Bin Laden apologist, why would I even bother wasting my time to prove to you what the majority of people already know. You have a search engine, you think I'm full of try it out..........

[Alt+F4]

Declassified documents have shown when he was brought into the CIA under his father's business partner's reign as it's head his codename was Tim Osman.

Gee, do ever wonder why the government keeps declassifing top secret documents that point to themselves as the bad guys?

[TC329]

TC329:

Amazing how this thread pulled you out of the lurk and into the fray again.

Some days, when I have a little bit of free time I come over here and engage in friendly debate. :)

World Politics is a funny thing. I could careless if the USA funded Al-Qaeda in the past. Does doing so mean they can never be the enemy, that the USA could never become their enemy. You make it sound like to fund them was to enter a lifelong friendship with them.

First, let me thank you for being honest enough to acknowledge that the US has funded Al Qaeda. Most people are so opposed to the alternate 9/11 theory they will take the opposite view on every single issue just to argue.

My point is, I believe we use Al Qaeda as we need them. Throughout histroy this has been consistently true. The Bush Administration attacked Iraq on 2/20/1 firing cruise missiles at 'Saddam's stockpile of chemical and biological weapons'. No one supported this action. Anywhere. And yet within just a few short months the whole world was ready to rally behind whoever this administration says is responsible. A halfassed job in Afghanistan to secure a pipeline who's construction has only been slowed down by the Pakistani government, the Taliban was paid off months in advance and were allowed to be evacuated by the Pakistani's. This is all mainstream information. Then the WMD lie justified an illegal war on Iraq and now the war drum starts beating for the next prize Iran. None of this could be possibly without 'Al Qaeda's work.

FACT: 19 Arab Hijackers hijacked planes on 9/11 and ran them into buildings.
Show me one piece of definitive physical evidence that proves this to be false, or else shut up.

TAM

Prove it. Your side makes the claim they did do it. A negative can't be proven, I can't prove it didn't happen but you can prove it did.

Prove 19 Arabs boarded 4 different planes. Every airport is and has always been packed full of surveillance videos. I'm sure the government has possession of all those videotapes and since it solidifies their argument I'm sure they have made them public, correct?

Edit: And if I hear one more truther Kook talk about Orwell I think I'll physically come through the computer and stuff a hard cover version of 1984 up their...

TAM

Truth hurts.

Sacrifice your freedoms for security and keep talking about the land of the free, k?

[stateofgrace]

[/color][/font]


"It's been historical fact that we trained, financed, & armed the Afghan resistance for decades."

Let me try that again, it's been a historical fact for decades (meaning multiple groupings of ten year periods) that we trained, financed, & armed the Muhajideen. Now do you comprehend it better?

Comprehend what better that you have not got a clue what you are talking about?It is no secret pal, the CIA funded the Muhajideen while they fought the Soviets.


Yes, the Muhajideen received the majority of it's financing from the Ministry of Information based in Pakistan and at the time oversaw by no other than OBL himself. The CIA gave Bin Laden the funds, he in turned used it to create 'Al Qaeda' V1.0. When the Muhajideen becomes a black op they become known as 'Al Qaeda' or as translated in Arab speaking countries 'The Toilet Bowl'.

Rubbish Al Qaeda comes from the term Al Abet which literally translates into the lions den. It was a former base where Arab fighters come to and from Afghanistan. It was a highly secure and fortified base and when the Arab Afghans pulled out it was keep as a record of those fighters. It was renamed Al Qaeda at the end of the Afghanistan war.

Yep and then the Sudanese Government offered him to the Clinton Administration on 3 seperate occassions but they had no desire to arrest and incarcerate a CIA asset. Furthermore, The Taliban also made an offer as a sign of good faith to do the same thing but their offer was also rejected by the criminal Clinton Administration. And I would like to find one person here who still believes OBL is a main priority of the Bush Administration's war on terror. Bush doesn't want to kill or arrest a CIA asset. And I'm sure many people here will use the Orwellian Media & Bush Administration comments that OBL 'isn't really important'..........

Rubbish the CIA did not fund OBL in Sudan, if you have proof provide it and proof to back up the rest of your rubbish.



Think his family disowned him because of his CIA role? Kind of tarnishes the family name, doesn't it. Not that it matters, the Bin Laden family name is as tarnished as the Bush Administration family name and yet they both continue to generate profits as long as their children wage war against each other.

Absolute garbage. His family broke all ties with him. The only reason he actually got out of Saudi Arabia was because he tricked his brother into getting his passport which had been confiscated.
Again provide your proof that the bin laden family is terrorist or shut up.


You're a Bin Laden apologist, why would I even bother wasting my time to prove to you what the majority of people already know. You have a search engine, you think I'm full of try it out..........


Garbage. The Bin Laden family are not terrorist and you know it. You have absolutely no proof of your disgusting and despicable accusations.
Offer it up, show me that the entire Bin Laden family are terrorists.

[TC329]

Gee, do ever wonder why the government keeps declassifing top secret documents that point to themselves as the bad guys?


No, this isn't a full blown dictatorship yet so I don't wonder why they declassify documents that 99.9999% of the world doesn't care about, doesn't know about, & doesn't look into and the controlled media never reports because it's old news. Here's Anna Nichole, don't worry about who has ties to the President and the CIA............

[TC329]

Comprehend what better that you have not got a clue what you are talking about?It is no secret pal, the CIA funded the Muhajideen while they fought the Soviets.


LOL!!!! That's why I love JREF. Here is a typical JREF conversation :

'Truther' : The CIA funded, armed, and trained the Muhajideen (aka Al Qaeda).

'Skeptic' : Garbage. Prove it.

'T' : Ok, here look at this.

'S' : You're an idiot, all you've done is prove what we all knew for years.

:eye-poppi

Rubbish Al Qaeda comes from the term Al Abet which literally translates into the lions den. It was a former base where Arab fighters come to and from Afghanistan. It was a highly secure and fortified base and when the Arab Afghans pulled out it was keep as a record of those fighters. It was renamed Al Qaeda at the end of the Afghanistan war.

No, it means 'Toilet Bowl'. Ana Raicha Al Qaeda = I'm going to the toilet.



Rubbish the CIA did not fund OBL in Sudan, if you have proof provide it and proof to back up the rest of your rubbish.


This is the time frame when the CIA 'turns their back on OBL'. It is alleged they withdrew funding but once a snake always a snake. This is the time period that the Muhajideen becomes the evil 'Al Qaeda' enemy needed to replace the void left by the communists.

The Clinton Administration sure didn't want him even though they blamed his group for the 93 attack which we all know was a FBI operation that even Dan Rather couldn't ignore.


Absolute garbage. His family broke all ties with him will in Sudan. The only reason he actually got out of Saudi Arabia was because he tricked his brother into getting his passport which had been confiscated.
Again provide your proof that the bin laden family is terrorist or shut up.

I didn't say the Bin Laden family are terrorists, I said you are an apologist for the famliy. What you can't deny is:

1) OBL, at the bare minimum, was a CIA asset.
2) The Bush and Bin Laden families have very strong business ties.
3) OBL's brother provided the financing for Bush's Arbusto Oil.
4) The Bush's would stay as personal guest of the Bin Laden family when they vacationed in Saudi Arabia.
5) George W. Bush doesn't want to see OBL dead or captured.



Garbage. The Bin Laden family are not terrorist and you know it. You have absolutely no proof of your disgusting and despicable accusations.
Offer it up, show me that the entire Bin Laden family are terrorists.

I don't have access to that information. The time to interrogate them would have been right around the time the Bush family was approving their flights back to Saudi Arabia while telling 290,000,000 of us we weren't allowed to fly.

Of course not, the American People were the target of the Bush Administrations 9/11 attacks and it was the American people who have been treated like potential terrorists everyday since then. Meanwhile, the family of the alleged mastermind are being escorted back home with the blessings of the people who insured the 9/11 attacks were a complete and total success.

Now don't you want to insult family members of the victims who still have very legitimate questions regarding that days events that were never addressed by the Commission Lee Hamiltion stated 'was set up to fail from the get go'?

[stateofgrace]

[/font][/color]


LOL!!!! That's why I love JREF. Here is a typical JREF conversation :

'Truther' : The CIA funded, armed, and trained the Muhajideen (aka Al Qaeda).

'Skeptic' : Garbage. Prove it.

'T' : Ok, here look at this.

'S' : You're an idiot, all you've done is prove what we all knew for years.

:eye-poppi

Wow stunning you told us something the entire planet knows, the CIA funded the Mudijedeen, brilliant.

The Mudijedeen were NOT Al Qaeda. As you have already been told Al Qaeda was formed at the end of the Afganistan war, when the Arab Afgan fighters left.

No, it means 'Toilet Bowl'. Ana Raicha Al Qaeda = I'm going to the toilet.



of course it does.:rolleyes:


This is the time frame when the CIA 'turns their back on OBL'. It is alleged they withdrew funding but once a snake always a snake. This is the time period that the Muhajideen becomes the evil 'Al Qaeda' enemy needed to replace the void left by the communists.

The Clinton Administration sure didn't want him even though they blamed his group for the 93 attack which we all know was a FBI operation that even Dan Rather couldn't ignore.


Oh I see so the Clinton administration groomed him now? Got any prove? No I didn’t think so.


I didn't say the Bin Laden family are terrorists, I said you are an apologist for the famliy. What you can't deny is:

1) OBL, at the bare minimum, was a CIA asset.
2) The Bush and Bin Laden families have very strong business ties.
3) OBL's brother provided the financing for Bush's Arbusto Oil.
4) The Bush's would stay as personal guest of the Bin Laden family when they vacationed in Saudi Arabia.
5) George W. Bush doesn't want to see OBL dead or captured.



1. Prove?
2. Why not are the Bin Laden family terrorists? Prove?
3. Is OBLs brother a terrorist? Prove ?
4. Are the Bin Laden family terrorists? Prove?
5. Prove?




I don't have access to that information. The time to interrogate them would have been right around the time the Bush family was approving their flights back to Saudi Arabia while telling 290,000,000 of us we weren't allowed to fly.



[FONT=Verdana]Why should they not leave, are they terrorists? Or do you think that some crackpot would naturally assume this?

Of course not, the American People were the target of the Bush Administrations 9/11 attacks and it was the American people who have been treated like potential terrorists everyday since then. Meanwhile, the family of the alleged mastermind are being escorted back home with the blessings of the people who insured the 9/11 attacks were a complete and total success.


Why should they not leave are they suspects or do you think they may be unjustly victimised? Provide your proof they are terrorists.

Now don't you want to insult family members of the victims who still have very legitimate questions regarding that days events that were never addressed by the Commission Lee Hamiltion stated 'was set up to fail from the get go'?

Please quote where I insulted the families.

[WildCat]

Nuttier and nuttier...

[TC329]

Wow stunning you told us something the entire planet knows, the CIA funded the Mudijedeen, brilliant.

The Mudijedeen were NOT Al Qaeda. As you have already been told Al Qaeda was formed at the end of the Afganistan war, when the Arab Afgan fighters left.

The Muhajideen became 'Al Qaeda'...'The Toilet'.

I'll leave my response to your next comment underneath this to save you the time of having to repeat yourself....

"Ana raicha Al Qaeda" is colloquial for "I'm going to the toilet". A very common and widespread use of the word "Al-Qaeda" in different Arab countries in the public language is for the toilet bowl. This name comes from the Arabic verb "Qa'ada" which mean "to sit", pertinently, on the "Toilet Bowl". In most Arabs homes there are two kinds of toilets: "Al-Qaeda" also called the "Hamam Franji" or foreign toilet, and "Hamam Arabi" or "Arab toilet" which is a hole in the ground. Lest we forget it, the potty used by small children is called "Ma Qa'adia" or "Little Qaeda".


of course it does.:rolleyes:



Oh I see so the Clinton administration groomed him now? Got any prove? No I didn’t think so.

No, the Clinton Administration didn't groom him, the Bush CIA did. The Clinton Administration, who's policies mimic this ones pretty much, weren't interested in him regardless of 4 offers and multiple opportunities to assassinate OBL.

[WildCat]

The Muhajideen became 'Al Qaeda'...'The Toilet'.

I'll leave my response to your next comment underneath this to save you the time of having to repeat yourself....

"Ana raicha Al Qaeda" is colloquial for "I'm going to the toilet". A very common and widespread use of the word "Al-Qaeda" in different Arab countries in the public language is for the toilet bowl. This name comes from the Arabic verb "Qa'ada" which mean "to sit", pertinently, on the "Toilet Bowl". In most Arabs homes there are two kinds of toilets: "Al-Qaeda" also called the "Hamam Franji" or foreign toilet, and "Hamam Arabi" or "Arab toilet" which is a hole in the ground. Lest we forget it, the potty used by small children is called "Ma Qa'adia" or "Little Qaeda".
This translation appears to be unique to you. Everyone else translates it as "the base" or very similar.

No, the Clinton Administration didn't groom him, the Bush CIA did. The Clinton Administration, who's policies mimic this ones pretty much, weren't interested in him regardless of 4 offers and multiple opportunities to assassinate OBL.
You've offered nothing so far to substantiate this other than your word. Oh yeah, your "document" which you won't source.

You're also wrong about the US funding anyone but indigenous Afghans during the war w/ the Soviets. But that's not surprising, given that you have the translation of "al Qaeda" so wrong.

I still can't figure out if that is some kind of joke.

[stateofgrace]

The Muhajideen became 'Al Qaeda'...'The Toilet'.

I'll leave my response to your next comment underneath this to save you the time of having to repeat yourself....

"Ana raicha Al Qaeda" is colloquial for "I'm going to the toilet". A very common and widespread use of the word "Al-Qaeda" in different Arab countries in the public language is for the toilet bowl. This name comes from the Arabic verb "Qa'ada" which mean "to sit", pertinently, on the "Toilet Bowl". In most Arabs homes there are two kinds of toilets: "Al-Qaeda" also called the "Hamam Franji" or foreign toilet, and "Hamam Arabi" or "Arab toilet" which is a hole in the ground. Lest we forget it, the potty used by small children is called "Ma Qa'adia" or "Little Qaeda".

Garbage, complete and utter garbage.

The Muhajideen did not become Al Qaeda, The data base of Arab Afghan fighters became Al Qaeda at the end of the Afghanistan war.

Responsible for the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks upon the United States, Al-Qaeda (also known as Al-Qaida) was established by Osama bin Ladin (also spelled Usama Bin Ladin or Osama bin Laden) in the late 1980s to bring together Arabs who fought in Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. Al-Qaeda helped finance, recruit, transport, and train Sunni Islamic extremists for the Afghan resistance.


The core of al-Qaeda was formed in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Bin Laden, son of a wealthy Saudi family, joined the fight to oust Soviet forces from Afghanistan. The Soviets did not follow Islam. Muslims considered the Soviet presence in the Islamic nation an offense against Islam. Bin Laden and other Arabs trained and equipped the mujahideen (moo-ha-DEEN), or holy warriors, in what was seen as jihad (GEE-hawd), holy war.


http://www.answers.com/topic/al-qaeda
http://www.edhelper.com/ReadingComprehension_33_141.html


Please stop making it up and answer my questions from the previous post.


No, the Clinton Administration didn't groom him, the Bush CIA did. The Clinton Administration, who's policies mimic this ones pretty much, weren't interested in him regardless of 4 offers and multiple opportunities to assassinate OBL.


Offer your proof that the CIA under the Bush administration groomed UBL.

[T.A.M.]

Proof:

See exhibits for Moussaoui Trial. If it is good enough to stand up in a US court of law, it is good enough for me...EOS.

TAM:)

[A W Smith]

Another error from Error cell

Al-Qaeda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda)


In Arabic, the name (القاعدة al-qā'ida) has four syllables, and is pronounced [al'qæː.ʕi.da]. However, as two of the Arabic consonants in the name ([q] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_uvular_plosive) and [ʕ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop)]) are not phonemes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemes) found in the English language (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language), the closest naturalized English pronunciation would be [æl'kæ.i.də], although [æl'kaɪ.də] and [æl'keɪ.də] are also heard.
The name of the organization comes from the ordinary Arabic noun qā'idah, which means 'foundation, basis' and is used both in geometry ('base' of a triangle) and in the military (a military/naval/air- 'base'). The initial al- is the Arabic definite article 'the', hence, 'the base'.
Osama bin Laden (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden) explained the origin of the term in his videotaped interview with al Jazeera (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera) journalist Tayseer Alouni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tayseer_Alouni) in late October 2001:
“The name 'al-Qaeda' was established a long time ago by mere chance. The late Abu Ebeida El-Banashiri established the training camps for our mujahedeen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mujahedeen) against Russia's terrorism. We used to call the training camp al-Qaeda [meaning "the base" in English]. The name stayed.[11] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Qaeda#_note-1)


from Lessons In Arabic language, book 1, lesson 4 (http://www.islamic-knowledge.com/Learning_Arabic/Madeenah_Book/Vocabulary.htm)
mirHaaD, mirHaaDun, al mirHaaDu, = toilet, a toilet, the toilet

[gumboot]

I've read hundreds and hundreds of posts by Brainster (Pat) and gumboot (Andrew), and have found their arguments to be well-founded. They are smart and they do their homework. I may at rare times disagree with how those arguments are framed (comparing the Jersey girls to Klansmen isn't apt, IMO), but I seldom disagree with their conclusions. Your characterizations of them as liars and sociopaths is wrong.


Yeah that's probably not the best comparison. But since doing "To Kill A Mockingbird" as a play, when I think "lynch mob" I think white men killing black men. The Jersey Girls may have been using a legal process, rather than a rope and a tree, but nonetheless, they were out for a lynching, not answers.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

I put no one on ignore. And i like playing with them.


Hah. You wish.

-Gumboot

[gumboot]

Funny thing about the entire CIA-Osama funding angle...

Of course we know the CIA was involved with the Mujahideen, but there were a lot of them. So what about Osama?

Well, first let's look at his role. He was originally sent over in a semi-official capacity, as a representative of the Saudi government, managing funds sent from Saudi Arabia to the ISI.

So initially, Osama was dealing with Saudi funds, not American.

Osama then joined up with his old mentor, Dr Abdullah Azzam, in 1984, and they formed an organisation called Maktab al-Khidamat. This organisation, known as MAK, had a number of offices in western countries (including 30 in the USA) and these were used to channel funds and recruits into the MAK training camp.

So once again, Osama got his funds, not from the CIA or US Government, but from other sources.

Conflict arose between Azzam and Osama - Osama was influenced by the Muslim Brotherhood, and wanted to use MAK to fund a global Jihad. In 1989 Azzam was killed in a car bomb (Osama is a prime suspect), and Osama took over full control of the organisation. It ultimately became the terrorist network "Al Qaeda" (meaning "The Base", and the nickname amongst the MAK Mujahideen for the training camp they went to).

So in conclusion, has the CIA or American Government ever funded or supported Osama bin Laden? No.

-Gumboot

[stilicho]

No, the Clinton Administration didn't groom him, the Bush CIA did. The Clinton Administration, who's policies mimic this ones pretty much, weren't interested in him regardless of 4 offers and multiple opportunities to assassinate OBL.
This quote is indicative of people who get most of their information off the internet rather than reading books or periodicals. I could get you a more complete bibliography, TC329, but why not start with Paul Mann's article on Assymetrical Warfare in a 1998 issue of Aviation Week & Space Technology?Or a 1997 article on the Pentagon's lack of preparation for the type of conflict they're facing in both Afghanistan and Iraq in Defense Daily? Most of such periodicals would be available at a good university library.

I have a tough time figuring out your point. Do you support the indiscriminate use of assassination by the US government? Even if the US government had killed UBL in 1999, say, would that have been sufficient to prevent the financing and planning operations of al-Qaeda? The founder of the organisation was killed in 1989 and that didn't stop them. And what about Maktab al-Khidamat? Was that a fake organisation too?

[Dog Town]

The Muhajideen became 'Al Qaeda'...'The Toilet'.

I'll leave my response to your next comment underneath this to save you the time of having to repeat yourself....

No, the Clinton Administration didn't groom him, the Bush CIA did. The Clinton Administration, who's policies mimic this ones pretty much, weren't interested in him regardless of 4 offers and multiple opportunities to assassinate OBL.

How old are you? This is the most idiotic thing, I have seen in some time! I deal with children alot, they are kicking your ass in the logic department!
CHILDREN!

PS
If the "girls" have bought into the CT world, they are morons!

[Redtail]

[/font][/color]

No, it means 'Toilet Bowl'. Ana Raicha Al Qaeda = I'm going to the toilet.



source?

[stateofgrace]

TC 329 if you ever do decide to read a book rather than simple believe everything you read on CT sites, I could highly recommend this one amongst many others.
http://www.amazon.com/Bin-Laden-Behind-Mask-Terrorist/dp/1559706600/sr=1-1/qid=1171792591/ref=sr_1_1/104-1751924-1507920?ie=UTF8&s=books

It is meticulously researched and gives the full history behind the group you call the toilet.
In it also is an account of how OBL reacted as he saw the towers collapsing, how he clapped and cheered as thousands of your fellow countrymen died.

Try it, hey,you may even learn something.

[I Am He]

The only bad part TC329, is that you think. You do not know.

:I see you're playing stupid again, looks like you're winning: