Imagination of the Weird

[Jackalgirl]

Nobby's "Grammar of the Weird (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=74453)" got me to thinking about this. Nobby's post was about a trend he(?)'d spotted in Challenge Applications: atrocious grammar, punctuation, spelling, and general inability to frame statements in clear English.

What I've noticed, though, is a different trend: a clear and distinct lack of imagination, specifically among those who either claim to have or believe in special powers (like telepathy, telekenesis, the ability to speak with the dead, etc).

For example: Sylvia Browne claims that she can speak to the dead, angels & guardians, and predict the future. So what does she do with it? She charges $750 for twenty minutes in an individual reading. Oh, and runs a church that's a bland (I meant to write "blend" but realize that this is probably better) between New Age Goddess philosophies and the Catholic Church. She claims to help the police with missing persons- and other kinds of cases, but nothing so far has been substantiated.

Why don't these people, and their supporters, have the imagination to think of how the world would be if this stuff were actually real? How come there are no staff psychics in the FBI (instead of these pesky science-based "profilers")? Or on police department staffs? How come it's Forensic Science that's offered at the reputable colleges, but not Forensic Psyence? How come people with extraordinary abilities aren't routinely recruited for SWATs or to be a part of military special forces? If you REALLY could speak with the dead, could you POSSIBLY be sane? And I don't mean "insane because you're claiming to speak with the dead" -- rather I mean "insane because you can't get them to SHUT UP." I mean, haven't any of these people seen "Ghost"?

If any of this stuff were real, how come the Twin Towers weren't empty the day of the attack? I'm sure that the thousands of people who died would have been exceptionally interested to know that that was going to happen. Heck, if I were telepathic (and somehow not driven completely insane by this), I can tell you RIGHT NOW that I would be an interrogator down at Gitmo or over in Iraq. No "torture" (whatever that word means during that moment in time) required with Petty Officer Jackalgirl, nosirree. She gets you verifiable information and the prisoner doesn't even know it happened.

Look, some of the claims are weak. Obviously, you're not going to become a superhero if all you can do is occassionally influence the flip of a coin or knock paper off of pins. Maybe "psychic phenomena" are limited to extremely intermittent, uncontrollable, subtle effects (MAYbe). But there are people out there who make some really extraordinary claims that should have wide-reaching, mind-blowing effects on the world at large. So how come they dream so small?

[TheGline]

Of course, when you try to pin them to the wall about it, they get defensive and invoke one of the catchall excuses: the power doesn't function like that (funny how they can never explain how it DOES function); they're here to "help humanity" (whatever that might mean -- so, why charge admission for your powers, O mighty one?); God works in mysterious ways (thinly disguised way of saying "I have no idea what's really going on"), and so on.

As someone else once said, the real wonders of the universe are far more staggering than any of the P.T. Barnum sideshow b.s. these phonies can come up with.

[CLD]

Maybe "psychic phenomena" are limited to extremely intermittent, uncontrollable, subtle effects (MAYbe). But there are people out there who make some really extraordinary claims that should have wide-reaching, mind-blowing effects on the world at large. So how come they dream so small?

I theorize that one reason people claim their paranormal powers are subtle, finicky, intermittent, and unmeasurable (besides being a convenient excuse for when they fail to manifest under test conditions) is that they expect such phenomena to evoke passionate study, analysis, speculation, and comment. IOW, attention.

[YourSpleen]

For me, the most disappointing and sad thing about Sylvia et al. is that apparently huge events - like 9/11 - don't send out enough precognitive warning waves from the future as the potential of Brad and Angelina breaking up do.

I would mourn for my dead loved ones who spend the rest of their eternal lives dealing celebrity gossip with accuracy less than chance. Dad, what the hell, you can't send me some metaphysical insight beyond what possible trouble Tom and Katie might be in later this year? Sheesh.

[Jackalgirl]

I theorize that one reason people claim their paranormal powers are subtle, finicky, intermittent, and unmeasurable (besides being a convenient excuse for when they fail to manifest under test conditions) is that they expect such phenomena to evoke passionate study, analysis, speculation, and comment. IOW, attention.

Oh, absolutely. I agree with you, although I'm not sure that they expect "study" and "analysis" in the sense of scientific study and analysis. That seems to be a common "out" among people with small claims. But Sylvia, for one, doesn't have small claims. When she's giving people readings, there's never any sense of "this is intermittent", or "I might be wrong". She's always firm, even to the point of telling people that they're lying to her, and only admits the possibility of error after she's demonstrably shown to be wrong. How come these "big claim" people aren't superheroes?

[CLD]

I don't have an answer for what motivates Sylvia Browne, although I can guess. She has huge "superhero" claims of 90% reliability (I think) but the folks she targets are not the type to ask questions such as you are asking. They are quite content with vague messages from the departed. Regarding your other observation, actually, I do see a lot of creativity among the paranormal crowd. Check out the ghost hunting "researchers" and you'll find that ghosts can be detected by heat, lack of heat, sound, lack of sound, electromagnetic fields, barometric pressure, negative ions, etc. It's really the only "science" where you can literally "make it up as you go along" and I suspect that's what attracts many people.

[Reno]

I think all psychics aspire to be Syliva Browne or Uri Geller, at least in financial terms. They see any skeptic as an annoying hurdle they have to get over on the way to the finish line. They know that if they actually take a proper test, then it will be proven that they have no superpower and the race, for them, could be over. That's why no psychic will take the MDC.

All we can do is hope that we annoy enough of them so much that they give up the race on their own.

[Jackalgirl]

All we can do is hope that we annoy enough of them so much that they give up the race on their own.

<dream>Wouldn't it be nice if this were a national pasttime?</dream>

Sigh.

[c4ts]

Well, there was one guy who posted in haiku form, who said he could call down meteors and evolve monkeys by shaving them, as well as bring dead people back to life in a way that they'd still look dead to us. I think. Maybe he didn't really apply and just ranted. Damn creative, if you ask me.

And then, more recently, I remember Prophet Yaweh (his real name, by the way) who said he could summon flying saucers with prayer. The creativity's there, just not in all the right places.

[Cuddles]

I have to say this is one thing I just can't understand. Cliche it may be, but truth really is stranger than fiction, and usually much more interesting. Why people feel the need to live in their own fantasy worlds instead of actually learning about reality is just beyond me.

[EternalSceptic]

I have to say this is one thing I just can't understand. Cliche it may be, but truth really is stranger than fiction, and usually much more interesting. Why people feel the need to live in their own fantasy worlds instead of actually learning about reality is just beyond me.

Dreaming is an easy way to ignore one's inability?

[Yahzi]

Why don't these people, and their supporters, have the imagination to think of how the world would be if this stuff were actually real?
I think it was Kai Nelson who talked about how God-talk was necessarily gibberish. Basically, you take a well-understood idea and then simply changed one of its attributes. For example, a ghost is like a person in every way - except they are dead.

I find this insight very explanatory. Why do ghosts wear clothes? Because the creation of the idea of ghost was a person minus an arbitrary attribute. The ghost retains clothes/speech/etc. by default.

And I think this explains the lack of imagination on the part of the woos. They aren't literally imagining a new thing; they are simply playing a little game where they add or subtract attributes from definitions.

People are linguistic creatures.

[JonnyFive]

How come there are no staff psychics in the FBI (instead of these pesky science-based "profilers")? Or on police department staffs? How come it's Forensic Science that's offered at the reputable colleges, but not Forensic Psyence? How come people with extraordinary abilities aren't routinely recruited for SWATs or to be a part of military special forces?

When I was working toward my first bachelors degree, I attended a school in New York that focused on criminal justice, law enforcement, criminal investigation, forensics, etc. I took several classes on criminal investigation and law enforcement operations, and the professors (who were all ex- or current law enforcement) universally laughed at the idea of using psychics.

One told us that if the police are even giving a psychic air time, it's a sure sign they have no real evidence on the case.

Interestingly, they didn't think too much of profilers either. Several of the professors argued that what the profilers did was of limited use, really not conveying much important information to the investigators, who do most of the real work in solving a case and helping to bring it to trial.

And then there were those pesky forensic science students with their "chemistry" and "lab work" and "scientific method". All the negative vibes must be preventing the psychics from getting good results.

Yeah, that's it.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

You know, I was once bored at work and got the same exact brainwave. You could have taken those words out of my mouth. Jackalgirl, it's like your psychic! :)

I started to think what talking to the dead, past life regressions, mind reading and predicting the future would mean in the real world. If you actually could do what Sylvia Browne claims to do in the real world the world would be yours. No limit with what you could do with those powers. You'd be the most powerful person that ever lived. You'd be God.

That's one of the problems with believers- lack of imagination. Funny how its totally within their credulity to believe that a medium could talk to their dead great-uncle and pass on messages from him but not that a medium could contact the Egyptian pharoah and find out what ancient Egyptian sounded like or contact Philip of Macedonia and find out who asassinated him.

Here's the first thing I'd do if I was psychic: learn poker. Clean out every casino from here to California. I can predict every play before it happens, right?

Second thing: put some bets on some ball games. I know the outcome already, right? I would take control of the entire sports gambling industry in about five minutes if it wasn't illegal.

If I could regress to past lives and talk to the dead, I'd fill in all the holes in history. Reconstruct all lost plays. Solve the greatest mysteries of all time. Write a song with Elvis. Become the greatest academic in several fields of history, literature, linguistics, anthropology and sociology.

Predicting the future? I'd win the Nobel Prize for all the science categories, economics and literature by stealing everyone's inventions and work before they were produced. I mean, I can see hundreds of years into the future, just like Sylvia Browne, can't I? I'd win the Peace Prize by predicting all natural disasters before they occured. I'd sweep every prize the Nobel commitee could come up every year, year after year after year.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Oh yeah, and James Randi's MDC would be peanuts compared to the money you could make if you could predict everything that happened to the stock market, know the outcome of all of the world's lotteries and owned all gambling.

You'd be wealthier than Bill Gates ever was in his wildest dreams.

[Reno]

If you're going to Choose Elvis as your song-writing partner, make sure it's Costello and not Presley.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Hehe, considering that the vast majority of the most talented people to ever live are already dead, I'd have plenty of talent to pick from.

[DangerousBeliefs]

Don't forget Vegas.

If any kind of PSI was real, they'd know it.

[Solus]

If I had those kind of powers I would be ruling the world (if I wanted to).
I imagine "psychic" powers to be like the stuff in japanese anime or the matrix, for those who aren't aware. Sadly psychic powers don't exist and are just a creation of con-artists.

[bruto]

I've always had the same problem with God. I mean, let's imagine for the moment that there really is a God. The very concept, to me, means something so strange and incredibly vast that it defies all understanding and beggars description. But the god most people believe in is just a greatly expanded person, the god most of us would be if we woke up one morning and realized we were omnipotent.

I'm not willing to bet much on there being a god at all, but I'm betting that if there is, all the theists would be gobsmacked if they found out what it actually is.