NEW JFK assassination film released

[firecoins]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/02/19/jfk.film.reut/index.html

This will add to more material for debunking.

[JAStewart]

I actually didn't think there would be anything in this thread except *fart* or something.

Wow, I look forward to seeing it. - Does it show the assassination?

[firecoins]

no. It was taken less than 90 seconds beforehand.

[JAStewart]

Oh. So its kinda useless then? Can you see the grassy knoll? According to the artickle, its on the net already?

[firecoins]

Supposedly It shows JFK's jacket scrunched up or something somehow getting shot and not matching up to the bullets Oswald used.


The footage is sure to be new fodder for conspiracy buffs who have long maintained Kennedy was the victim of a sinister plot orchestrated by shadowy elements in either the government, the "military-industrial complex," the Mafia or communist Cuba.
"I've already seen the footage on a conspiracy Web site -- it's interesting for the conspiracy researchers to study Kennedy's coat which appears to be bunched up on his back," Mack said.
He said since Kennedy's jacket was riding high on his back, the entry wound in his body did not match the expected position in his coat -- grist for the conspiracy mill that charges more than three shots were fired.

[ConspiRaider]

...Wow, I look forward to seeing it. - Does it show the assassination?
No, but it does show Oliver Stone sitting between JFK and Jackie Kennedy in the limousine.

Also, in the background you can see the Texas School Book Depository sitting in its original location - atop the Grassy Knoll - before George Bush Sr. and E. Howard Hunt moved it back to its Elm Street location later that night.

Finally, the film clearly shows that all of the male spectators in the Plaza that day who were wearing suits - also each had rabbit ears antennae extending 2-3 feet above their heads.

[Mr. Skinny]

Finally, the film clearly shows that all of the male spectators in the Plaza that day who were wearing suits.
Obvious handlers of Gravy Sr.

[firecoins]

actually the video shows Vice President Lyndon Baines Johnson firing shots from the grassy knoll while giving order to start the Viet Nam war to Jack Ruby.

[firecoins]

CNN does not offer a link to the video. Does anyone know where I can find it? If I knew I would have posted it.

[Aphelion]

I hear the film clearly shows the window Oswald fired from.

[jhunter1163]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17229693?GT1=9033

This has at least some of the video, not sure if that's all.

[firecoins]

I believe that is all of it. Its reported to be only 40 seconds long containing a short clip just beofre the shooting and some the next day.

[Kiwiwriter]

I hope this is the one that shows either Elvis pulling the trigger or the guy in the Kaiser Wilhelm helmet behind the shrubbery. (Mentioned in Posner's book)

[CurtC]

The footage is sure to be new fodder for conspiracy buffs who have long maintained Kennedy was the victim of a sinister plot orchestrated by shadowy elements in either the government, the "military-industrial complex," the Mafia or communist Cuba.
"I've already seen the footage on a conspiracy Web site -- it's interesting for the conspiracy researchers to study Kennedy's coat which appears to be bunched up on his back," Mack said.
He said since Kennedy's jacket was riding high on his back, the entry wound in his body did not match the expected position in his coat -- grist for the conspiracy mill that charges more than three shots were fired.
Here is the basic outline of the conversation between Conspiracy Theorists and people with critical thinking skills, as it relates to the bunched jacket and the single bullet theory:

Conspiracy Theorist: The single bullet theory does not make sense - Kennedy was shot in the back and from the front, in the neck!
Sane Person: No, those two holes are from one shot. It entered from behind and came out his neck (then continued on to hit Connally).
CT: No way! If the bullet entered in his back, and came out his neck, that would be an upwards trajectory, but your sniper's nest was well above Kennedy, so that bullet would have had to be on a downwards trajectory!
SP: Actually, the slope wasn't that severe, but it was down somewhat, and if you line up where your own collar would fasten in the front (where the bullet exited) with where it would have to enter from behind, you'll find that this point is on your back, a couple of inches below where your neckline starts.
CT: But what about where the bullet hole was found in the back of his jacket! That hole was like five inches below the jacket collar according to the FBI's measurements! The bullet hit him too far down on his back to come out his neck, and the jacket hole proves it!!!ONE!!1!
SP: That's a good question, but if you look at many photos of Kennedy riding in the limo on that day, it's clear that his jacket was riding up on his back, so that the material was doubled over right behind the jacket's collar. Therefore, the hole in the jacket five inches below the collar was aligned with the point on his back a couple of inches below his neckline.

CT: But we have a new video that shows the jacket was bunched up just a minute or two before the assassination!!!1!
SP: WTF?!? That's what I've been trying to explain to you.

[Big Les]

Yeah, good point. If anything, this supports the official account, doesn't it?

[azazal]

actually the video shows Vice President Lyndon Baines Johnson firing shots from the grassy knoll while giving order to start the Viet Nam war to Jack Ruby.

Does it show a total slop, a holographic projection of a dead man, an android that can't leave a dirty sock on the ground, and a highly evolved cat? If not, then it's obviously and government produced fake :D

[Larry Lovage]

What the hell are you guys all talking about, second shooter, Grassy knoll?? Don't you understand that the bunched up area of the jacket is where the squibs were hidden that simulated Kennedy being shot. The squibs can clearly be seen in the Zapruder firing off as "puffs" of blood, as Kennedy's body collapses downwards, inexplicably faster than freefall speed.

It was done so that he could disappear from public life and go live on the Moon (which was why they had to fake the landings, in case anybody heard an unexplained Massachussetts accent on the moon shot radio transmissions.)

[firecoins]

are you saying Kennedy had a cement core?

[njslim]

Looking at the scene Kennedy's suit looks like a 1970's era leisure suit, which
proves the whole JFK assassination is a hoax invented by the CIA, Masons,
NWO, Illuminati, et al to poison the minds of the American public.

[Oliver]

Wow, i just watched several amateur videos from that day in Dallas. I didn't know that there were so much viedos recorded: F. Mark Bell Charles Bronson Robert J. E. Hughes John Martin Charles Mentesana Patsy Paschall Elsie Dorman Tina Towner Marie Muchmore Orville Nix

[firecoins]

and no one caught someone in the grassy knoll with a rifle.

Than again no one filmed Oswald either but no one would have any reason to be filming that.

[Free Thinkr]

Wow, i just watched several amateur videos from that day in Dallas. I didn't know that there were so much viedos recorded: F. Mark Bell Charles Bronson Robert J. E. Hughes John Martin Charles Mentesana Patsy Paschall Elsie Dorman Tina Towner Marie Muchmore Orville Nix

Yeah, it's pretty cool. And Dale Myers (http://www.jfkfiles.com/) took all the videos and synced them up into one continuous animation in 3D. Sadly his DVD is still "coming soon." I've seen part of it on a TV program, but I think the DVD will be great.

[Regnad Kcin]

Does this new footage show the tiger?

[firecoins]

yeah. He's greeeaaaat!

[Haywire]

It shows Jamie Hyneman pulling the trigger and Adam Savage standing behind Jamie making funny faces.

[Dragon]

Does it show a total slop, a holographic projection of a dead man, an android that can't leave a dirty sock on the ground, and a highly evolved cat? If not, then it's obviously and government produced fake :DJFK shot himself!

[CurtC]

Chuck Norris built a time machine and went back to witness the Kennedy assassination. When Oswald fired, Norris used his beard to deflect the bullets and JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.

[firecoins]

I think Oliver Stone was the grassy knoll shooter. Alex Jones was the Umbrella man.

[Pardalis]

I don't get that "bunched coat" conspiracy.

[pomeroo]

Hey, it just hit me! I don't know why I hadn't thought of it sooner, but I know--I really do know--who killed JFK.

(Dramatic pause; sounds of throat clearing)

It was DA JOOOOOS!!!!

[Aphelion]

Hey, it just hit me! I don't know why I hadn't thought of it sooner, but I know--I really do know--who killed JFK.

(Dramatic pause; sounds of throat clearing)

It was DA JOOOOOS!!!!

No it wasn't the jews. I am still constantly amused by the people who think Oswald acted alone though.

[Regnad Kcin]

Well, perhaps Oswald fed the tiger.

[ConspiRaider]

Hey, it just hit me! I don't know why I hadn't thought of it sooner, but I know--I really do know--who killed JFK.

(Dramatic pause; sounds of throat clearing)

It was DA JOOOOOS!!!!
Possible. No - probable. The very fact that the jooooooos are not implicated by the majority of conspiracy books about JFK proves that they Did It. It's that Inverse Thing working.

Plus JFK was Roman Catholic.

Hey-Wait-a-Minute-I-was-Born-And-Raised-Roman-Catholic :boxedin:

That's it! I'm selling the CONVERTIBLE!!!!!1111one!eleventy!!!

[ConspiRaider]

No it wasn't the jews. I am still constantly amused by the people who think Oswald acted alone though.
And after 43 long years, you are now prepared to blunt our amusement by revealing the other perps, right here, live, on the JREF forum. You could have done it on Oprah or E! or CNN or Bill Maher or Fox "News" or the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

We are honored.

Proceed. The perps who shot Kennedy are:

[Rahne Everson]

JFK shot himself!

Best episode of Red Dwarf ever!

[CurtC]

I am still constantly amused by the people who think Oswald acted alone though.Amused? Hell, you're constantly baffled by the people who think 9/11 was the result of Arab terrorists.

[Retrograde]

From the CNN website:
A group of excited bystanders -- women sporting big 1960s hairstyles -- waves to the cameraman shortly before the motorcade sweeps past.

If that doesn't prove, uh, something... It's that little attention to details that makes for effective conspiracies, you know.

[Rich M]

It's lovely, clear footage, which is nice. The bunched jacket thing certainly doesn't help the conspiracy theories, which IIRC hinge on the disparity between the holes in the suit and the entry wound in JFK's neck. Bunch the jacket and it lines up, thus invalidating the idea that the suit-hole lines up with the supposed small wound in JFK's back (which started out thanks to the rather poor nature of the autopsy notes and their "drawn from memory" innacuracies.)

I've been re-reading Case Closed recently, oddly enough.

[Chedda]

Chuck Norris built a time machine and went back to witness the Kennedy assassination. When Oswald fired, Norris used his beard to deflect the bullets and JFK's head exploded out of sheer amazement.

What a preposterous theory. Everyone knows that time travel leaves a ectoplasmic residue. And not a drop, not a single drop was found during the investigation.

Consider yourself debunked!

[firecoins]

i don't think Kennedy was killed by Oswald. I think Kennedy was watching Loose Change, the original one on Pearl Harbor and his exploded.

[Dragon]

Best episode of Red Dwarf ever!It was a good one, my favourite bit -

John F. Kennedy: How, ah, can you help?
Lister: Well, come with us back to Dallas, November '63. Be a second gunman. The gunman behind the grassy knoll.
John F. Kennedy: You mean... assassinate *myself*?
Lister: Yeah. It'll drive the conspiracy nuts crazy but, they'll never figure it out.

:D

[LashL]

And after 43 long years, you are now prepared to blunt our amusement by revealing the other perps, right here, live, on the JREF forum. You could have done it on Oprah or E! or CNN or Bill Maher or Fox "News" or the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

We are honored.

Proceed. The perps who shot Kennedy are:

...tapping foot while awaiting the response and evidence that Aphelion is surely going to produce at any moment now.

...tapping
...tapping
...tapping

[Aphelion]

And after 43 long years, you are now prepared to blunt our amusement by revealing the other perps, right here, live, on the JREF forum. You could have done it on Oprah or E! or CNN or Bill Maher or Fox "News" or the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

We are honored.

Proceed. The perps who shot Kennedy are:


How am I meant to know that? I wasn't there.

[Rahne Everson]

How am I meant to know that? I wasn't there.

Well at least we know it wasn't the Jews right?

[timhau]

Well at least we know it wasn't the Jews right?

Of course it was the Jews. Oswald wasn't one, so they made him a patsy.

[firecoins]

I amit it. I killed Kennedy. It was me in the Grassy Knoll with the rifle. Of course. I only have 1 arm.

[Rahne Everson]

Of course it was the Jews. Oswald wasn't one, so they made him a patsy.

AHA! The gentiles are always at the mercy of the Jews in their evil Zionist plots.

[JimBenArm]

AHA! The gentiles are always at the mercy of the Jews in their evil Zionist plots.
They made him into a pastry? Is there no end to the evil these Zionists will do?
Oh, PATSY!
Um, never mind...

[ConspiRaider]

Your previous quote:
No it wasn't the jews. I am still constantly amused by the people who think Oswald acted alone though.
How am I meant to know that? I wasn't there.
So then you are retracting your previous quote? You are no longer amused by people who think Oswald acted alone, since you have nothing to refute such a position?

True, I do try to amuse people, but usually you know it and occasionally I succeed at it. Other times I fall flat on my face at it.

But not about the JFK assassination. I'm not trying to amuse anyone about my actual conclusions on that subject.

Give me something - anything - that convinces you without a doubt that Oswald did not act alone.

[DrPL]

I've written a little something on my website about this whole bunched jacket stuff. Sadly I can't post the link yet, but if you do a search for my website ( Paul Lee ) and follow the link to the JFK stuff you'll find my page.

Best wishes

Paul

[peteweaver]

Did anyone ever watch Red Dwarf ?

There was an episode where they went back in time (so Lister could get a curry), ending up in Dallas 1963 inadvertantly killing Lee Harvey Oswald and preventing Kennedy's assasination, and messing up history so badly, that they convinced JFK to go back to Dallas and be the gunman on the grassy knoll.

Just thought it would be an amusing thing to point out :)

[boloboffin]

OK, that does it.

Behold my ultimate conspiracy theory PROVING that the people who pulled off JFK's assassination also pulled off the 9/11 attacks. You know how I know this?

Because they mimicked the important shots in the entire JFK-Oswald affair IN the 9/11 attacks.

Number 1: JFK shot in the middle of the back/neck - the "magic bullet". Where exactly did Flight 11 hit the North Tower? Squarely in the middle - just like JFK! Where did the "magic passport" come from? Flight 11!

(The second JFK shot doesn't count, because it didn't hit anything and was never recovered.)

Number 2: JFK's explosive head shot. Where did it hit? The back right side of JFK's head. Where did Flight 175 hit the South Tower? On the south right side! Where was the explosion compared to where JFK's head exploded? ON THE FORWARD RIGHT SIDE! That fiendish explosion is a planned out model of the JFK head shot! Why did the South Tower fall first? Because the head shot is the one that killed JFK!

Number 3: The Pentagon strike. The Pentagon, the military. They wear uniforms and uphold the Constitution. The law of the land. Law officers...and the next shot fired was Oswald shooting Officer Tibbit! He was in a movie theater, and the Pentagon strike was just as much a theatrical production!!! What seat was Oswald sitting in??? Seventh row, seventh seat - 77!!!!!!!!!!!!

Number 4: Flight 93. The failed attack. The attack turned back on the attackers...OMG! This was Jack Ruby shooting Oswald! The final shot in the JFK-Oswald saga? Where did Flight 93 crash? Pennsylvania, the capital of which is Philadelphia, the City of Brotherly Love! What did that crash do to the American spirit? It drew us together as brothers and sisters! It gave us the same sort of closure that Jack Ruby taking out Oswald gave our nation! WE FOUGHT BACK!

Those evil [rule8]ards. Not only did they kill JFK and pull off the 9/11 attacks, but those sick twisted freaks had to rub our noses in it.

[/crackpot]

[CurtC]

I've written a little something on my website about this whole bunched jacket stuff. Sadly I can't post the link yet, but if you do a search for my website ( Paul Lee ) and follow the link to the JFK stuff you'll find my page.I couldn't find your web site. I Googled a bunch of forum posts scattered around with your name, but couldn't find your site itself.

You can post the address of your site by leaving off the "http://". It won't be a clickable link, but people here are capable of copy-n-paste.

[Gravy]

I couldn't find your web site. I Googled a bunch of forum posts scattered around with your name, but couldn't find your site itself.

You can post the address of your site by leaving off the "http://". It won't be a clickable link, but people here are capable of copy-n-paste.

Here it is. http://www.paullee.com/

[CurtC]

Sorry, DrPL, I don't understand your contention in that article. You say:For the bullet to have hit below the throat wound, it would have had to have angled upwards to emerge from the throat, before hitting Connally, seated in front of JFK.
But who says the bullet hit his back below the throat wound? An entry wound in the upper part of his back would come out in the observed place, with a downwards bullet trajectory. That observed hole in his back lines up nicely. The hole in his jacket seemed to low at first blush, but if the jacket were raised up, that would then line up nicely as well. And yep, we have photographic proof that his jacket was bunched up.

Can you explain your objection to this a little more clearly?

[Eternal Gaijin]

There's a good video at fora.tv (sorry can't post a link yet) of Vincent Bugliosi discussing his new book on the Kennedy assassination. He goes through Oswald and his marksmanship. I don't remember if he goes into the suitcoat postition/bunching but he covers the angle from the Book Depository and the magic bullet to task pretty well.

[cornelius]

i dont understand why so many people here say conspiracy jfk murder is not likely. very strange. because the usa gouvernment research say that it is.
please explain to me this 2 links:

www.history-matters.com/archive/church/contents.htm

www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/contents.htm

i have posted same links long time ago here already, but was ignored.
why?

[Liszt]

actually, most people do not believe the Warren commission´s findings.

Only people living in a fluffy fantasy world think Oswald was the lone gunman.


http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/937a1JFKAssassination.pdf
(32% on this poll. Coincidently, 32% of Americans are stupid)

[DrPL]

Sorry, DrPL, I don't understand your contention in that article. You say:
But who says the bullet hit his back below the throat wound? An entry wound in the upper part of his back would come out in the observed place, with a downwards bullet trajectory. That observed hole in his back lines up nicely. The hole in his jacket seemed to low at first blush, but if the jacket were raised up, that would then line up nicely as well. And yep, we have photographic proof that his jacket was bunched up.

Can you explain your objection to this a little more clearly?


There are photos of the jacket and shirt that both show a bullet hole about 6 inches below the neckline, and there are photos of JFK's back taken during the autopsy which show a wound at this location in the mid-back.

If a bullet hit in this location, it would have to be going with a downward trajectory to be fired from above and behind. I can't see how it could suddenly range up and emerge from just below his throat. If you wear a jacket normally, even bunching it up, or riding it up as I prefer to call it won't make the bullet trajectory line up with the 6th floor window, or the wound in Kennedy's throat.

The bunched jacket is a red-herring. If you accept that the bullet emerged from below the adam's apple, as the Dallas doctors said, then the entrance would have to be above this exit wound. All I ask is that you try and line up this hypothetical entrance wound with holes in a jacket and shirt 6 inches below the neck line. And then compare the photos with your gymnastics.

btw, its no use trying to verify the location of the wounds in Kennedy's throat with testimony given by the autopsy doctors in Bethesda. The doctors in Dallas who tried to save JFK's life put a tracheotomy through this bullet wound. The autopsy doctors didn't even know that this mark was the location of a bullet wound until well after Kennedy's body had been handed over for embalming, and they then had to hypothesize about the nature of the wound. So, their testimony on this point is moot.

[MaGZ]

Hey, it just hit me! I don't know why I hadn't thought of it sooner, but I know--I really do know--who killed JFK.

(Dramatic pause; sounds of throat clearing)

It was DA JOOOOOS!!!!

Some think so.
http://www.serendipity.li/zionism/final_jgmt_reviews.htm

Not my view BTW.

[MaGZ]

actually, most people do not believe the Warren commission´s findings.

Only people living in a fluffy fantasy world think Oswald was the lone gunman.


http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/937a1JFKAssassination.pdf
(32% on this poll. Coincidently, 32% of Americans are stupid)

I think Oswald was the lone gunman but was maneuvered by Mafia types to do the deed. Oswald perhaps never knew he was being manipulated and handled.

[calebprime]

No, but it does show Oliver Stone sitting between JFK and Jackie Kennedy in the limousine.

Also, in the background you can see the Texas School Book Depository sitting in its original location - atop the Grassy Knoll - before George Bush Sr. and E. Howard Hunt moved it back to its Elm Street location later that night.

Finally, the film clearly shows that all of the male spectators in the Plaza that day who were wearing suits - also each had rabbit ears antennae extending 2-3 feet above their heads.

when I get done laughing, I want to hire you for humor lessons. almost seriously.


I think Oswald was the lone gunman but was maneuvered by Mafia types to do the deed. Oswald perhaps never knew he was being manipulated and handled.

This is surely a new and creative angle.

The Mafia, with their brilliant grasp of psychology, put Oswald in the marines, where they knew he'd screw up. They caused him to want to go to Russia, where they knew he'd be more or less ignored. Using sarcasm, they made him return to the U.S.; and without any physical activity on their part, they made him expect a big hubbub on his return, which he never received. They built his delusions of grandeur--without him even knowing it. By subtly nailing his head to the floor, they caused him to try that practice-run assassination attempt. Genius!

[Big Les]

There are photos of the jacket and shirt that both show a bullet hole about 6 inches below the neckline, and there are photos of JFK's back taken during the autopsy which show a wound at this location in the mid-back.

If you're talking about the back wound pic (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/back.jpg) linked on the McAdams site, I disagree that the bullet wound appears that low down. It appears to be the higher of the visible marks and stains, if that's what's throwing you off. According to the autopsy report, this wound was 14cm below the right mastoid process, i.e. much higher up than that. The jacket entry hole (the result of the bunching visible in this video) is a little less than 6 inches (13.4cm) from the top of the collar.

If a bullet hit in this location, it would have to be going with a downward trajectory to be fired from above and behind. I can't see how it could suddenly range up and emerge from just below his throat. If you wear a jacket normally, even bunching it up, or riding it up as I prefer to call it won't make the bullet trajectory line up with the 6th floor window, or the wound in Kennedy's throat.

IF a bullet hit in this location. Can you prove that it did, or at least provide evidence?
Argument from personal incredulity, in any case.

The bunched jacket is a red-herring. If you accept that the bullet emerged from below the adam's apple, as the Dallas doctors said, then the entrance would have to be above this exit wound.

And from the autopsy report (for one thing), it was.

All I ask is that you try and line up this hypothetical entrance wound with holes in a jacket and shirt 6 inches below the neck line. And then compare the photos with your gymnastics.

I may not be the best read JFK buff, but I've never seen such photos [as contradict the single bullet theory].

btw, its no use trying to verify the location of the wounds in Kennedy's throat with testimony given by the autopsy doctors in Bethesda. The doctors in Dallas who tried to save JFK's life put a tracheotomy through this bullet wound. The autopsy doctors didn't even know that this mark was the location of a bullet wound until well after Kennedy's body had been handed over for embalming, and they then had to hypothesize about the nature of the wound. So, their testimony on this point is moot.

You've lost me there. A tracheo will make detailed analysis difficult, but isn't going to obliterate the wound to the point where you couldn't use it as a point for a trajectory. In any case, if this evidence is moot, it affects both the "official" line AND your own "alternative" hypothesis, surely?

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

Robert F. Kennedy Speech - On the death of Martin Luther King

The extraordinary words of Robert Kennedy

... I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.

[jhunter1163]

Oh for Christ's sake. It's times like this I wish I had Beachnut here with me for his ability to cut through the stupid. When RFK said "I had a member of my family killed", he didn't mean he ordered it. It's like saying "I had a wheel fall off my car this morning". I didn't ask for it: it just happened. CTers of all stripes seize on things like this and blow them up into the most ridiculous things. RFK had his own brother killed? That has to be the most idiotic thing I have ever heard. I fear for America if this kind of thinking is the product of our educational system. I hear New Zealand is nice.. except for the summers being in the winter and the winters in the summer, and the damn road cones. On the plus side, they have learned to speak some English there. Maybe I'll immigrate...

[CurtC]

...and there are photos of JFK's back taken during the autopsy which show a wound at this location in the mid-back.
Perhaps you can post a link to this photo? It would certainly be evidence worth of front-page news in all the major papers, even 43 years later.

[robinson]

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html

I'm not offering any opinion on these photos, but was curious if there were such photos. A Google took about 3 seconds to find one. How strange. Third photo from the top.

[calebprime]

Robert F. Kennedy Speech - On the death of Martin Luther King

The extraordinary words of Robert Kennedy

... I had a member of my family killed, but he was killed by a white man.

You like this so much you're saying it again. How about responding to the other posters who debunked you the first time around?

I've heard some wacked-out things here, but this is right up toward the top.
That and your technique of super-secret linguistic analysis.

Tell more. Prepare for all-out mocking. Grapeshot rakin' yer bows.

[Big Les]

http://www.celebritymorgue.com/jfk/jfk-autopsy.html

I'm not offering any opinion on these photos, but was curious if there were such photos. A Google took about 3 seconds to find one. How strange. Third photo from the top.

Erm, no-one was saying there were no such photos, just none showing a back wound "6 inches below the neckline". I have yet to see one. I suspect wilful misinterpretation of the known photo, but am prepared to be proved wrong with this other alleged photo that shows the entry wound at that location.

[bonavada]

Erm, no-one was saying there were no such photos, just none showing a back wound "6 inches below the neckline". I have yet to see one. I suspect wilful misinterpretation of the known photo, but am prepared to be proved wrong with this other alleged photo that shows the entry wound at that location.

looking at the site (from the pic of the back wound with the ruler - compared to the image of the exit wound in JFK's throat) it seems very plausible they were both caused by the same bullet. why wouldn't it have? also who's to say the bullet couldn't have deflected slightly after entry causing a change in velocity?

and the author of that site captioned the image of JFK's back with "Photo of the president's back, oddly taken from below the body...." i mean, it's not odd to me how that picture was taken. they just turned him over FFS.

BV

[Big Les]

I quite agree.

[DrPL]

The photos showing entry wounds in the jacket and shirt are available on the internet. They were first brought to prominence by Harold Weisberg. There are photos on my website, but I can't post the link here.

[Civilized Worm]

The Red Dwarf episode pissed me off, having someone go back in time and kill themselves is the last thing you want to do when time travelling!


actually, most people do not believe the Warren commission´s findings.

Only people living in a fluffy fantasy world think Oswald was the lone gunman.


http://abcnews.go.com/images/pdf/937a1JFKAssassination.pdf
(32% on this poll. Coincidently, 32% of Americans are stupid)


Most people believe in god. Your polls are worthless.

[Big Les]

The photos showing entry wounds in the jacket and shirt are available on the internet. They were first brought to prominence by Harold Weisberg. There are photos on my website, but I can't post the link here.

You can post the link without the http and other notation (replace / with the word slash for example), and I'll convert it into a proper link.

[Gravy]

The photos showing entry wounds in the jacket and shirt are available on the internet. They were first brought to prominence by Harold Weisberg. There are photos on my website, but I can't post the link here.Yes you can. Just leave off the http or the .com. Please post the link. I'm quite eager to see these photos that you've had privileged access to.

[MINISTERofTRUTH]

When RFK said "I had a member of my family killed", he didn't mean he ordered it. ...

How little you know.

Do you recall where you came from before you set foot on this earth. Of course you don't !

When something happens, there are two sides to the story. One you see on this side of reality, and the other on the other side.

It's a very crafty game indeed.

[Whiplash]

The Red Dwarf episode pissed me off, having someone go back in time and kill themselves is the last thing you want to do when time travelling!

Heh, indeed.

I just wanted to join into the RD derail briefly to say that I did think it was a nice touch they way they had JFK dressed as a cop when he made the shot from teh grassy knoll.. "badge man" and all that ;)

[Foolmewunz]

How little you know.

Do you recall where you came from before you set foot on this earth. Of course you don't !

When something happens, there are two sides to the story. One you see on this side of reality, and the other on the other side.

It's a very crafty game indeed.

"I had both my parents die."
"I had a cousin who was killed."
"I had a brother killed in a plane crash."

Do you doubt for a second that the intention in all of those sentences is the same; to state that a person died or was killed? The English language works in many ways. To take "had" and turn it into active participation is just absurd.

Sorry, I had seen this quote many times and I always thought the CTists were saying that he was insensitive for using the race card at King's funeral. I cannot believe it's being used as a "slip of the tongue". Just plain damned frakking ridiculous!

[calebprime]

How little you know.

Do you recall where you came from before you set foot on this earth. Of course you don't !

When something happens, there are two sides to the story. One you see on this side of reality, and the other on the other side.

It's a very crafty game indeed.

I, for one, want to stay on this side of reality.

[jhunter1163]

I prefer to stay on this side of reality, where the laws of physics act in predictable ways; where words are not twisted to suit the warped agendas of lunatics and profiteers; where "facts" are not made up out of whole cloth or cherrypicked to suit the above-mentioned warped agendas; and, not least, where national tragedies are treated with respect and compassion, not as a podium to spout nonsense or to make a quick buck.

Thanks for listening to my rant.

[JimBenArm]

How little you know.

Do you recall where you came from before you set foot on this earth. Of course you don't !

When something happens, there are two sides to the story. One you see on this side of reality, and the other on the other side.

It's a very crafty game indeed.
This is right up there with the stupidest things ever written. You should be quite proud. Normally, people have to use nail guns on their heads before they can successfully write something utterly devoid of meaning!

[cornelius]

many people only make joke about alternative jfk theories. but nobody explained yet the 2 links i posted. so here it is again

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/church/contents.htm
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/contents.htm

this are official investigations. so better you explain. You can not just ignore findings of this investigations.

[JimBenArm]

many people only make joke about alternative jfk theories. but nobody explained yet the 2 links i posted. so here it is again

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/church/contents.htm
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/contents.htm

this are official investigations. so better you explain. You can not just ignore findings of this investigations.
Oh yeah? Watch me ignore them!
See, this is me ignoring them.
Pretty exciting, isn't it?

[Big Les]

many people only make joke about alternative jfk theories. but nobody explained yet the 2 links i posted. so here it is again

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/church/contents.htm
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/contents.htm

this are official investigations. so better you explain. You can not just ignore findings of this investigations.

Your links aren't currently working, but I assume you're talking about the findings (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/hscareport.htm) of the Select Committee on Assassinations? You're falling into the trap of assuming that sceptics will blindly believe authorities just as CTists blindly believe crackpots. We don't, we look at the available evidence and the approach used by the authority putting forward their argument. And that shows that this committee was just plain wrong.

Here's (http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/jfkinfo/dissent.htm) some of the material critical of their findings that was left out of the final report. You cannot ignore this either :D

[cornelius]

?
i am not sure what you mean to say. should this be funny?
of course you can ignore if you want. its your choice.
but it tells alot about how you look at things. and it is very much not the way a 'sceptic' does. do you just ignore things that dont fit in your view?

[cornelius]

to clarify: my reply was for JimBenArm.
Big Les, thank you for a 'real' reply. i will loook at the link and then say what i think about it. thank you.

[JimBenArm]

?
i am not sure what you mean to say. should this be funny?
of course you can ignore if you want. its your choice.
but it tells alot about how you look at things. and it is very much not the way a 'sceptic' does. do you just ignore things that dont fit in your view?
Yes, it's meant to be funny. You made a statement "You cannot just ignore" and I showed you that, yes, indeed, I can.
Sorry that you're humor-impaired. I understand there's a treatment for it now. Maybe you can see your doctor about it.

[cornelius]

i did not hear somebody laughin. you just attack me sayin go to doctor. very smart. is it really? look, i am not interested in this way of talking. i like to have real talk, not attack everyone who dont agree with me. so if you have something to say about the Church Committee or the House Select Committee JFK conclusion, then i am ready to hear.

[JimBenArm]

i did not hear somebody laughin. you just attack me sayin go to doctor. very smart. is it really? look, i am not interested in this way of talking. i like to have real talk, not attack everyone who dont agree with me. so if you have something to say about the Church Committee or the House Select Committee JFK conclusion, then i am ready to hear.
My, my, aren't we sensitive! If you consider that an attack, just hang around! It was a gentle joke at your overly dramatic post.

Just a clue, though. JFK has been picked clean. There is nothing new to see, nothing more to report. It's old, boring, and dusty. Nobody cares anymore.

Besides, it was Oswald, in the Book Depository, with the Rifle. Colonel Mustard was nowhere in sight, the rope was still in the Library, and no one else was involved. Sorry, just the way it is in Reality! Get over it, already!

[Big Les]

JFK Cluedo!!!!! Where can I buy that edition?

[robinson]

Uh... there are a couple of new things about the JFK murder that just happened.

[robinson]

Sorry to spoil your sense of glee and stuff.

And those links are still not working.

[Big Les]

Uh... there are a couple of new things about the JFK murder that just happened.

Same [rule 8], different year.

Sorry to spoil your sense of glee and stuff.

And those links are still not working.

Neither, apparently, is the "edit" button.

[robinson]

I'm sorry, maybe you thought I was talking to you. Damn Internets, words are hard.


Just a clue, though. JFK has been picked clean. There is nothing new to see, nothing more to report. It's old, boring, and dusty. Nobody cares anymore.


There is a certain irony in making that claim, heh, because if nobody cares, well, you know, you wouldn't be saying that.

:wackylaugh:

A death bed confession and forensic evidence, both in the same year. JFK's murder may be like Roswell. It will never get old.

[JimBenArm]

I'm sorry, maybe you thought I was talking to you. Damn Internets, words are hard.



There is a certain irony in making that claim, heh, because if nobody cares, well, you know, you wouldn't be saying that.

:wackylaugh:

A death bed confession and forensic evidence, both in the same year. JFK's murder may be like Roswell. It will never get old.
You're using Roswell as an example of something not getting old? Sorry, again, same stuff, different day.

The other stuff is just garbage.

[robinson]

I thought nobody cared?

[CurtC]

Cornelius, here's the brief overview of the huge, glaring flaw in the HSCA findings. The committee had been meeting for a long time, and had come up with zero evidence that there was any conspiracy. At the eleventh hour, this acoustical analysis was introduced, which with great fanfare purported to show that there had to have been a fourth shot in Dealey Plaza, based on analysis of a Dictabelt recording of a motorcycle radio microphone. The committee then wrapped things up, saying that they found nothing else, but ruled it as a probable conspiracy based solely on that acoustics analysis.

Shortly thereafter, it was shown that the motorcycle recording was from a time well after the assassination took place. The loud sounds were something else entirely, probably engine backfires. The only thing that caused the HSCA to rule "probable conspiracy" has now been shown to be absolutely false. And we're now just left with their work up until that analysis, which again, like every other sober investigation, has shown no conspiracy.

The HSCA didn't reconvene to retract their findings, though. No one wanted to go through that again. It was just relegated to the dustbin of history, except for when conspiracy theorists dry to pull it back out and use is as some kind of support for their case, without realizing that it now refutes their case.

[robinson]

I used Roswell as an example, because it never got old. Despite being 60 years old. There is even a damn TV show called Roswell. (well, there was, it may be over by now).

A forensic scientist wanting to do new test, a Watergate burglar confessing, its a gold mine for those who still think the murder of JFK is on the table.

Of course you still care. Thats why you still argue. :D

Don't pretend you don't care. heh

[CurtC]

I used Roswell as an example, because it never got old. Despite being 60 years old.
Roswell got old around 1948, only to be resurrected 30 years later by the UFO nuts. If you had polled the man-on-the-street around 1973, very very few people would have even heard of any Roswell event.

[Big Les]

No robinson, I didn't think you were talking to me, but I'll talk to you regardless. Isn't that nice of me?

Now, as I admit that I do happen to care about this rehashed load of old cobblers (call me tragic), where's this "new" evidence you think is so important?

[JimBenArm]

I used Roswell as an example, because it never got old. Despite being 60 years old. There is even a damn TV show called Roswell. (well, there was, it may be over by now).

A forensic scientist wanting to do new test, a Watergate burglar confessing, its a gold mine for those who still think the murder of JFK is on the table.

Of course you still care. Thats why you still argue. :D

Don't pretend you don't care. heh
Gee, and I thought I was mocking you for caring about this. All this time, I was caring so deeply about this, and just didn't know it!
Thank you for clarifying that for me! Most helpful.

[robinson]

Now, as I admit that I do happen to care about this rehashed load of old cobblers (call me tragic), where's this "new" evidence you think is so important?

How tragic. You need to get out more. Note: Only you used the word "important". I would call it interesting.

This site seems to pull all the links together - http://www.jfklancer.com/

Interesting, they have entire forums on this stuff.

[Big Les]

Thanks. And for the insult, it raised a smile and brightened my otherwise hopeless day. That site is as insightful and groundbreaking as any pseudohistorical or CT site. I.e. only in a quaint folkloric way.

Their headline story is the storm-in-teacup about the bullet analysis flaws that were already well documented and do not detract from the usefulness of the fragments as evidence otherwise.

[HereticHulk]

doh!

Posthumous book claims Ford knew of CIA coverup in Kennedy assassination

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Pres._Fords_final_words_fuel_JFK_1121.html

[Big Les]

They authenticate the book as Ford's, it will be interesting anecdotal evidence. They don't, and it's utterly useless.

The book is a re-edition with a new foreword purporting to update the reader as to the late Gerald Ford's revised thoughts on the assassination. I'm sceptical, possibly needless to say. It's a bit convenient. A quick googling of Tim Miller, CEO of "Flatsigned" reveals accusations of forgery (http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/byform/mailing-lists/exlibris/2001/10/msg00245.html).

Too early to call this as a hoax, but let's have an authentication.

[Big Les]

OK, am I missing something here? The latest press release and subsequent news story seems to have been seriously "sexed up" since this original release (http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6438989.html) a few months back which states that the content is identical to the previous edition in which Ford rebuts the conspiracy theories. It does claim, as does the new release, that he admits the CIA destroyed documents, but what are the specifics here, and their significance? The London Met Police altered documents in the de Menezes case, the US government seems to have exercised a coverup of the USS Liberty incident in order to keep relations with Israel stable. The idea that the CIA might destroy unspecified documents for unspecified reasons by no means gives credence to outright conspiracy to assassinate, nor to more than one shooter, and especially as Ford had already debunked the conspiracy theories.

We need to know exactly what the new foreword says, and whether it's authentic or not.