Happy Birthday Robert Mugabe, you f***ing douche!

[shemp]

Zimbabwe bans protests as Mugabe gets ready to party (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article1419461.ece)

Police in Zimbabwe imposed a three-month ban on political rallies and demonstrations across large parts of Harare today as Robert Mugabe, the world's oldest head of state, celebrated his 83rd birthday.

The blanket ban, announced in state-controlled newspapers, came as supporters of the hardline President prepared a lavish cake-and-fizzy-drinks birthday party in the central city of Gweru, to be held on Saturday to mark. The ban follows weekend clashes in the capital between police and activists from the Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) which culminated in riots squads firing tear gas and water cannon to stop an opposition rally.

His people love him so much that his political party had to deduct money from their salaries to pay for his birthday bash:

The party has been deducting money from civil servants’ wages and bullying near-bankrupt businesses for donations to raise the 300 million Zimbabwean dollars (about £30,000 at real exchange rates) to pay for the celebration on Saturday. In attendance will be the 21st of February Movement, an organisation of children established with the sole purpose of gathering on this day each year to pay homage.

Together with hundreds of Mr Mugabe’s rich and powerful cronies, they are expected to hear a long address from the Most Consistent and Authentic Revolutionary Leader — his official title. The cost of the party would supply 300 Aids sufferers with antiretroviral drugs for a year in a country where only 50,000 people out of 500,000 infected have access to them.

Fortunately, inflation is under control and food is plentiful. No, just kidding, inflation is rampant and people are starving:

The price of bread rose 136 per cent yesterday. Four loaves would cost a farmworker 15,000 dollars, a month’s wages. On Friday the Government doubled the price of maize-meal, the national staple, to the point where it will take a farmworker two months to pay for a 50kg (130lb) bag, enough for a family of six for a month.

So what if most people are hungry? Let them eat (birthday) cake!

[Zep]

Any day now, any day...someone will drop him, or he will drop dead. Then hell will break loose in that poor benighted country.

[Darth Rotor]

Zimbabwe bans protests as Mugabe gets ready to party (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article1419461.ece)



His people love him so much that his political party had to deduct money from their salaries to pay for his birthday bash:



Fortunately, inflation is under control and food is plentiful. No, just kidding, inflation is rampant and people are starving:



So what if most people are hungry? Let them eat (birthday) cake!
Good thing Ian Smith was sent packing, isn't it?

DR

[bob_kark]

Any day now, any day...someone will drop him, or he will drop dead. Then hell will break loose in that poor benighted country.
Hell has already broken. They just don't realize it yet. Oh, and I'm telling Manning!!

[The Don]

Good thing Ian Smith was sent packing, isn't it?

DR
Well if you're a supporter of racist regimes then I suppose you could cast a nostalgic tear for Mr Smith.

In absolute human welfare terms then he was less bad than Robert Mugabe is now. That's not saying a great deal however.

[steverino]

Maybe they ought to change the name of their currency. I mean, the words "Zimbabwean Dollar" do not instill a lot of faith to me. Sounds like something you'd bake in a pink, Suzy Homemaker oven.

P.S. Bob Kark- OK. The Colts won. Get over it!:mad:

[The Don]

Maybe they ought to change the name of their currency. I mean, the words "Zimbabwean Dollar" do not instill a lot of faith to me. Sounds like something you'd bake in a pink, Suzy Homemaker oven.
Currency related P.R. is probably quite low on the list of priorities when the economy is in freefall and millions are in very real danger of starving.

Of course "Uncle Bob" will deny that his policies have in any way been a major factor in the collapse of the farming sector and in the accelleration of the brain drain.

[timhau]

Any day now, any day...someone will drop him, or he will drop dead. Then hell will break loose in that poor benighted country.

And then there will be much rejoicing, because that's an improvement.

[Zep]

Hell has already broken. They just don't realize it yet. Oh, and I'm telling Manning!!It's already hell-on-Earth. It will just become even more out of hand than it is now. I'm expecting an action replay of the civil war and bloodbath in central Africa in the mid-90's. It will make Iraq look like a game of croquet, but will go mostly unnoticed by the world because he USA will probably not be involved.

[The Don]

It will make Iraq look like a game of croquet, but will go mostly unnoticed by the world because he USA will probably not be involved.
To be fair it'll go mostly unnoticed because the USA and the former colonial powers won't be involved.

For the UK it's a lose/lose scenario. Fail to get involved and we're not taking seriously our obligations as a former colonial power. Get involved and we're seeking to embark on a programme of neo-colonialism.

IMO it's completely unfair to take the U.S. to task over this, it's not in their national self interest to get involved in any way at all. By the same measure, I wouldn't expect Australia to take an active part in any political or military initiatives.

[a_unique_person]

Sooner or later, some people just have to realise they aren't doing a good job at whatever it is they do, and make a career change.

[Darat]

...snip...

Of course "Uncle Bob" will deny that his policies have in any way been a major factor in the collapse of the farming sector and in the accelleration of the brain drain.

Of course - it's the gay Mafia in the British government's fault.

What is simply appalling is that just a decade ago the country could and did feed itself and export food and today they are facing the very real risk of widespread starvation due to a lack of locally produced food.

[The Don]

So if it's agreed that Mugabe's regime is a bad thing do we:

- Wait, let nature take its course and wring our hands at the resultant bloodbath
- Wait, and attempt to influence the outcome with unpredictable results
- Actively attempt to replace him
- Get someone else to actively attempt to replace him
- Something else

Given our (the UK's) record in the past for successful involvement, I'm afraid that crossing our fingers may be the only viable approach

[geni]

It's already hell-on-Earth. It will just become even more out of hand than it is now. I'm expecting an action replay of the civil war and bloodbath in central Africa in the mid-90's. It will make Iraq look like a game of croquet, but will go mostly unnoticed by the world because he USA will probably not be involved.

I doubt that south africa would find such a situation acceptable.

[Darth Rotor]

Well if you're a supporter of racist regimes then I suppose you could cast a nostalgic tear for Mr Smith.

In absolute human welfare terms then he was less bad than Robert Mugabe is now. That's not saying a great deal however.

Hmm, the attempt at subtlety failed, and the fault is completely mine. Didn't pick the right words, nor the right smilies.

Mugabe's vengenace based approach was a poor model compared to Mandella's approach of reconcilliation. The sent packing was intended to convey that, but utterly failed to.

I agree with you that the man on the street could deal with one kind of suckage, Smith's, or another kind of suckage, Mugabe's. It's sort of the old "Mussolini made the trains run on time" damning with faint praise that could make Smith's day, in comparison, seem "better" than Mugabe's chaotic rulership.

Lose-lose for the little man.

DR

[bob_kark]

Sooner or later, some people just have to realise they aren't doing a good job at whatever it is they do, and make a career change.

People of Zimbabwe, it has recently come to my attention that stealing land, then giving it to my cronies, stealing money, mainly for myself, jailing homosexuals, massacring our citizens, and absolutely obliterating our economy apparently somehow does not make our country the greatest on earth. I have to admit, I'm a little stunned here. Things seemed to be going so well.

Rev. Sithole here... heh heh. No! You know I still can't say that with a straight face Ndabby! Anyway, where was I? Oh yes, Rev. Sithole... heh. Uhm, he enjoys his new 50 acre estate I stole for him. Why can't the rest of you just be happy for him? Why is it I have to fix these all of these elections?

Well, regardless, I've found it's time that I find another line of work. It seems we just have two different philosophies. You want a system of government that serves an protects you. I want to steal the little bit of bread you have left on your table. We just don't see eye to eye. Therefore, I've decided to become a personal injury attorney.

At the law offices of Mugabe and Sithole... hahaha... hoooo. Wow, Ndiddy, I just can't do it. I'm sorry, you know I've got mad love for you! Anyway, we will work for you. Remember, we don't get paid until you get paid. Mugabe out!

[fuelair]

Of course - it's the gay Mafia in the British government's fault.

What is simply appalling is that just a decade ago the country could and did feed itself and export food and today they are facing the very real risk of widespread starvation due to a lack of locally produced food.


And basically I have gotten tired of explaining the obvious - and having it suggested I support racism. Efficiency is one line of discussion, racism is a different one.

( not here - outside world)

[steverino]

So if it's agreed that Mugabe's regime is a bad thing do we:

- Wait, let nature take its course and wring our hands at the resultant bloodbath
- Wait, and attempt to influence the outcome with unpredictable results
- Actively attempt to replace him
- Get someone else to actively attempt to replace him
- Something else

Given our (the UK's) record in the past for successful involvement, I'm afraid that crossing our fingers may be the only viable approach

Ah yes. The "evil dictator dilemma." The liberal catch-22... "We should attempt to remove him militarily, because he is evil, and Africans are a suffering, forgotten people, and so it is the RIGHT THING TO DO. Those mean big fat white Republicans only pick a fight when oil is involved, and when it serves us strategically.

Then the liberals say, "Oh, wait. We are not the world's policemen."

Same old s**t.


Please don't try to avoid the auto censor with creative misspellings; just self-edit or don't use the language. Thanks.

[Ziggurat]

I doubt that south africa would find such a situation acceptable.

And what would South Africa be willing to do about it? Finding a situation unacceptable doesn't mean much - the slow-motion genocide in Darfur is unacceptable, but it doesn't require our acceptance in order to proceed.

[BPSCG]

It's sort of the old "Mussolini made the trains run on time" damning ...
No he didn't (http://www.snopes.com/history/govern/trains.htm).


Carry on.

[Skeptic]

Well if you're a supporter of racist regimes then I suppose you could cast a nostalgic tear for Mr Smith.

Mugabe's regime is significantly more racist than Smith's. Only the target--white Zimbabewans instead of black Zimbabewans (sp???)--has changed.

[Nancarrow]

Ah yes. The "evil dictator dilemma." The liberal catch-22... "We should attempt to remove him militarily, because he is evil, and Africans are a suffering, forgotten people, and so it is the RIGHT THING TO DO. Those mean big fat white Republicans only pick a fight when oil is involved, and when it serves us strategically.

Then the liberals say, "Oh, wait. We are not the world's policemen."

Same old *****.

:rolleyes:

Yes, it's terrible being a liberal, and having ethical dilemmas, and having to consider complex situations. Silly me! Why, if only I was a conservative, I'd never ever again have to deal with situations involving two sides to a debate.

It's the right thing to remove a brutal dictator. But we can't just invade any damn country we feel like. But.... but... oh my god! :eek:

Heh. Good one steverino. You sure showed those stupid liberals. Har har!

[steverino]

:rolleyes:

Yes, it's terrible being a liberal, and having ethical dilemmas, and having to consider complex situations. Silly me! Why, if only I was a conservative, I'd never ever again have to deal with situations involving two sides to a debate.

It's the right thing to remove a brutal dictator. But we can't just invade any damn country we feel like. But.... but... oh my god! :eek:

Heh. Good one steverino. You sure showed those stupid liberals. Har har!

Guess what? I agree with you completely. Also, the stupid conservatives have had to make difficult descisions involving ethical dilemmas, and their actions are characterized by many liberals as evil, not nuanced.

[Skeptic]

:rolleyes:

Yes, it's terrible being a liberal, and having ethical dilemmas, and having to consider complex situations. Silly me! Why, if only I was a conservative, I'd never ever again have to deal with situations involving two sides to a debate.

It's the right thing to remove a brutal dictator. But we can't just invade any damn country we feel like. But.... but... oh my god! :eek:

Heh. Good one steverino. You sure showed those stupid liberals. Har har!

That would be more convincing if it wasn't also the case that, whenever the conservatives choose one horn of the dilemma and don't intervene in a dictatorship, the liberals claims it proves how morally evil conservatives are for coddling dictators, while whenever they choose the other horn of the dilemma and do intervene, the liberals claim it proves how morally evil conservatives are for performing imperialistic agression.

The liberals believe, in other words, that only they are bothered by ethical dilemmas or have to make imperfect moral choices. When conservatives claim to be doing the same, say the liberals (winking knowingly), they're lying. I mean, everybody knows conservatives don't really take all this ethics stuff seriously, and always have some nefarious secret agenda (coddling a dictator or supporting imperialism, as the case may be).

[Cleon]

That would be more convincing if it wasn't also the case that, whenever the conservatives choose one horn of the dilemma and don't intervene in a dictatorship, the liberals claims it proves how morally evil conservatives are for coddling dictators, while whenever they choose the other horn of the dilemma and do intervene, the liberals claim it proves how morally evil conservatives are for performing imperialistic agression.

Your ability to be full of more crap than a fertilizer truck never ceases to amaze me.

Show me a single prominent liberal (or anyone left-of-center) who's called conservatives "morally evil" for not overthrowing a dictatorship. Current or past, doesn't matter--Franco's Spain, Mugabe's Zimbabwe, Saddam's Iraq, the list goes on. Come on, just one!

When people refer to conservatives' "coddling" of dictators is when conservative administrations actively support and aid said dictatorship, such as the case with Saddam, Somoza, Batista, Pinochet, Musharraf, and so forth. It's not a matter of "failing to intervene," and never has been.

Y'know, it's possible to not invade a country and simultaneously not give them money, support, and weapons.

[fuelair]

Ah yes. The "evil dictator dilemma." The liberal catch-22... "We should attempt to remove him militarily, because he is evil, and Africans are a suffering, forgotten people, and so it is the RIGHT THING TO DO. Those mean big fat white Republicans only pick a fight when oil is involved, and when it serves us strategically.

Then the liberals say, "Oh, wait. We are not the world's policemen."

Same old *****.

I'm liberal. (as you know from previous) I say, send in a hit squad, take him and carefully chosen among his enablers out. (with extreme predjudice as it used be said). Leave quietly, leaving behind things from Iran or Libya - but not too easy to tell.

[Zep]

To be fair it'll go mostly unnoticed because the USA and the former colonial powers won't be involved.

For the UK it's a lose/lose scenario. Fail to get involved and we're not taking seriously our obligations as a former colonial power. Get involved and we're seeking to embark on a programme of neo-colonialism.

IMO it's completely unfair to take the U.S. to task over this, it's not in their national self interest to get involved in any way at all. By the same measure, I wouldn't expect Australia to take an active part in any political or military initiatives.No no, don't get me wrong. No blame for the USA, or indeed for any other major colonial power, would be attached at all. Just that it would go unnoticed by the majority of the world in their absence; it would not rate the Nightly News either side of the Atlantic. In many cases these days, if it wasn't on TV, it didn't really happen.

[Zep]

I doubt that south africa would find such a situation acceptable.No sensible person anywhere finds it acceptable now. The question is: What are they going to do about it?

[Zep]

I'm liberal. (as you know from previous) I say, send in a hit squad, take him and carefully chosen among his enablers out. (with extreme predjudice as it used be said). Leave quietly, leaving behind things from Iran or Libya - but not too easy to tell.Even simpler: Offer the country much money and support to rebuild their economy if they publicly deliver the head of Mugabe and selected of his offsiders on spears. That is, get them to do it themselves.

It would take less than a week.

[a_unique_person]

I'm liberal. (as you know from previous) I say, send in a hit squad, take him and carefully chosen among his enablers out. (with extreme predjudice as it used be said). Leave quietly, leaving behind things from Iran or Libya - but not too easy to tell.

I'd be happy to buy him out, if it means Zimbabwe is rid of him.

[steverino]

I'm liberal. (as you know from previous) I say, send in a hit squad, take him and carefully chosen among his enablers out. (with extreme predjudice as it used be said). Leave quietly, leaving behind things from Iran or Libya - but not too easy to tell.

I like it. What's funny is that I am half-watching Reno 9-11 at my girlfriend's, and your scheme seems well-suited for the cops on this show.
:D

[a_unique_person]

Another possibility is an international court, to try people guilty of crimes against humanity.

[Darth Rotor]

So if it's agreed that Mugabe's regime is a bad thing do we:

- Wait, let nature take its course and wring our hands at the resultant bloodbath

- Something else

Is this an appeal to a Planet X option?

I say let them play, and let it run its course. Intervention in Africa has been a very mixed bag in the past 20 years, with some of the more successful efforts being in coastal and small countries.

Zimbabwe has no littoral. It is medium to large sized. Logistically, international intervention is a low probability option.

DR

[fuelair]

Even simpler: Offer the country much money and support to rebuild their economy if they publicly deliver the head of Mugabe and selected of his offsiders on spears. That is, get them to do it themselves.

It would take less than a week.

Could work! Fine with me!:D

[The Don]

Even simpler: Offer the country much money and support to rebuild their economy if they publicly deliver the head of Mugabe and selected of his offsiders on spears. That is, get them to do it themselves.

It would take less than a week.
How do we guarantee that his successor is any better or do we just offer the same terms to the mob until they come up with an acceptable candidate ?

Does this also establish a precedent ? Would it now be considered internationally acceptable to offer a bounty for the assassination of any leader ? Any politician ?

[Zep]

How do we guarantee that his successor is any better or do we just offer the same terms to the mob until they come up with an acceptable candidate ?

Does this also establish a precedent ? Would it now be considered internationally acceptable to offer a bounty for the assassination of any leader ? Any politician ?I do wish this forum had a "sarcastic" smilie. I should have used it.

Practically speaking, there is little option but to wait Mugabe out - he has not long to go, either to die of whatever foul diseases he has, or to be forcefully deposed by his own people - while ensuring that his form of madness does not infect surrounding countries too much. Of course, he will definitely utterly bankrupt whatever is left of Zimbabwe, reducing it to the Stone Age quite literally, by the time either of these outcomes occur.

And as noted above, Africa has been a mixed bag of national success - some places are stable, some could not be more unstable. And active intervention, even if invited, is always going to be fraught with difficulties.

This is all very sad.

[fuelair]

:rolleyes: :D

[geni]

And what would South Africa be willing to do about it?

Pick a side in the conflict that they think is able to run the place and make sure it wins in short order.