Psychological principles of religion.

[Fade]

This thread is half aimed at our beloved Yahweh.

You seem to dismiss this very important point as irrelevant, or whatever.

So, I'd like to discuss the psychology behind religion. To me, this was the final crushing blow against theism. It was principles of psychology that made me realize what religion actually is, rather than what it claims to be. Most people aren't satisfied with an open question. Most people aren't satisfied until they have some sort of finality, some sort of finish. This is what religion gives us. Also, we have a life long need to be protected and sheltered. This is only sensible, as those who are protected will live longer and produce more children. Our sense of community is directly tied to our religions. Without exception I am aware of, religion has been used, in the history of humanity, to form more tight knit social groups. The tighter the better, as far as evolution is concerned.

I think of religion in the same way I think of addiction. As any good psychologist will tell you, the first step in breaking an addiction is admitting there is something wrong. Part of altering your behaviour to fit your ideal image of yourself is being able to eliminate the way you don't want to react, and replace it with the way you do. Saying "I have a problem" is a great first step. Finding what that problem is, exactly, is the next. Understanding the reasons behind that problem is the third.

The logic is this: Once you understand that religion is a psychological, and communal tool, how can you believe any of it is true? I know that the crazy man in the hospital isn't really seeing demons, just as I know that nobody really feels god.

[Yahweh]

This thread is half aimed at our beloved Yahweh.
SUPER COOL!

You seem to dismiss this very important point as irrelevant, or whatever.
Hardly. Psychology is extremely important. Somehow, I dont think psychology, religion, and rational thought mix very well. (I'm a poor psychologist, can you tell) Putting my complex thoughts into English words (let alone Laymens terms) is exceedingly difficult for me... I suck at it.

The logic is this: Once you understand that religion is a psychological, and communal tool, how can you believe any of it is true? I know that the crazy man in the hospital isn't really seeing demons, just as I know that nobody really feels god.
Excellent, something I'm good at. Logic and philosophy.

The psychology or relgion is based on primitive ideas, driving those ideas into you at an early age, and reinforcing those ideas with fear (goin' down to hell) or infinite happiness (Heaven, nirvana). Religion makes you do a lot of funny things. It makes you believe that if you dont go the church when your told to, you are a bad person... bad bad person. Most actions done in the name of religion tend to be completely wasted. Sure, it might make you feel good spiritually, but I think it would be better to poor all that effort of praying and donating money in the collection to better use, perhaps maybe taking care of animals.

I know that the crazy man in the hospital isn't really seeing demons, just as I know that nobody really feels god.

Schizophrenics have difficulty discerning between reality and unreality. Philosophical principles say that the demons of delusions they have are no more false in nature than an average persons perceptions of a chair in the middle of a room. No, I'm not the "reality only exists inside ones head, you can never really know" kind of philosopher, but when philosophy and psychology meld together, it causes blood vessels inside your head to burst upon thinking about it.

More psychology (from a philosopher??). To feel God and to feel his love is a novel idea. Its sounds nice dont it. When people feel spiritually fulfilled, they can feel very happy. They may actually feel physical sensations they they attribute to God. Of course, whether they try to silence the tiny passing thought in the head that says "think for a second, you arent really feeling God" is questionable.

Honestly, I dont think I'm qualified to debate or rationalize the psychology of religion... I gave it a shot and thats what counts isnt it (unless I've wasted my time and failed horrifically)...

[Fade]

. Philosophical principles say that the demons of delusions they have are no more false in nature than an average persons perceptions of a chair in the middle of a room.

That is why philosophy is an interesting tool to examine human nature, but tends to fail utterly when it examines physical reality. My perception of the chair is real, because the chair is actually there. The same isn't of the demons.

Some perceptions are false, and some are true. Then some are in that gray area in between, and that is where we must be the most careful. I don't need to give extra thought to the wood that my bed is made of, but I do need to look a few times to make sure that little light at the end of the tunnel is actually there, and not just something I want to be there. Our senses are extraordinary things, but we need to learn how to interpret what they are telling us.

I think that is one of those lessons that most people never learn.

[ntech]

Good points Fade!

[Dancing David]

Religion also address the needs of the human psyche that are not rational. There is this segment of human beings that like to ask, why? Religion for good or ill tries to answer those question. We as humans are not all thoughts, we have feelings and dreams as well, this is part of religion.

Of course I have tried to reduce all spiritual experience to a psychological one.

[hgc]

Here a couple of books on the topic I haven't gotten around to reading. Has anyone else?

Why Gods Persist: A Scientific Approach to Religion (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0415208262/qid=1058215395/sr=1-22/ref=sr_1_22/104-9944866-4047944?v=glance&s=books)

In Gods We Trust: The Evolutionary Landscape of Religion (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0195149300/qid=1058215361/sr=1-15/ref=sr_1_15/104-9944866-4047944?v=glance&s=books)

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Dancing David
Religion also address the needs of the human psyche that are not rational. There is this segment of human beings that like to ask, why? Religion for good or ill tries to answer those question. We as humans are not all thoughts, we have feelings and dreams as well, this is part of religion.

Of course I have tried to reduce all spiritual experience to a psychological one.
The common human fault is trying to apply higher meaning to life. As far as anyone is concerned, the meaning of life is the aid those around you and further the community in intellectual and technological development... if you felt like it, not like you are forced to...

People also try to apply higher meaning to their dreams. They try to apply higher meaning to death. Higher meaning to chance events. Higher meaning to complex human emotions.

People dont like to be told that life doesn't have much purpose... thats where religion fills in the gaps. It makes life worth living in a way.

The psychology of religion obviously goes much further than the need to apply meaning to existance...

[Dancing David]

I agree dude, but the human psyche is why we have religion, if we were rational automata then we probably wouldn't.

Hence my phrase , religion is like toilet paper, you may not like it but if you need it it comes in handy.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Dancing David
I agree dude, but the human psyche is why we have religion, if we were rational automata then we probably wouldn't.

Hence my phrase , religion is like toilet paper, you may not like it but if you need it it comes in handy.
I dont trust the human psyche. One's inner convictions dont validate a belief. Regardless if someone happens to be a Christian, or an atheist, of hindu, etc. those inner convictions mean nothing in the face of science and scrutiny. Yes, we must scrutinize atheism as well... and so far, of all the belief systems, atheism is the most rational.

As for toilet paper, I like it. The Charmin company just came out with these new scented toilet rolls.

[Dancing David]

Originally posted by Yahweh

I dont trust the human psyche. One's inner convictions dont validate a belief. Regardless if someone happens to be a Christian, or an atheist, of hindu, etc. those inner convictions mean nothing in the face of science and scrutiny. Yes, we must scrutinize atheism as well... and so far, of all the belief systems, atheism is the most rational.

As for toilet paper, I like it. The Charmin company just came out with these new scented toilet rolls.

Religion addresses more than just the bigotry that it is presented as, often it becomes a reason to be nice to each other, or to explain the unexplainable.

Why can I tell what my dog is thinking? Because I can read the subtle and gross clues to his behavior. Some would say that it is because we have souls, and that there is a link.

And those inner convictions do face up to science and scrutiny, a NDE will leave a profound impact on the way someone lives thier lives, some use rational expression , others use irrational metaphors.

I don't think that you can prove that rational is always better than irrational, they are different tools kits for decribing different concepts.

They are just concepts, god is a human concept and experience, which is why you can scrutinize it.