PDA

View Full Version : Hollow Earthers


tracer
26th February 2007, 03:01 PM
This week's Commentary, at http://www.randi.org/jr/2007-02/022307sniffex.html#i11, refers to "Advanced Planetary Explorations, LLC", a company that plans to mount an expedition to the North Pole so that they can find the alleged opening to the interior of our hollow (!) Earth.

It got me to thinking ... how do Hollow Earthers explain the bizarre gravity that their world-model requires?

As shown in Randi's encyclopedia entry for Hollow Earth theory (www.randi.org/encyclopedia/Hollow%20Earth%20theory.html), the center of gravity is inside the crust, thereby allowing people on the inside to walk on the inner surface just like we top-dwellers walk on the outer surface. There are three immedate problems with this:

1) Simple calculus shows, and experiments confirm, that the gravitational field inside a uniform hollow spherical shell is zero (0) at all points. A person "standing" on the inner surface would feel a certain gravitational attraction from the small amout of material under his feet, and an equally-strong gravitational attraction in the opposite direction from the large amout of material on the opposite side of the sphere way far away. Net gravitational attraction: zero.

2) Even for us outer-surface dwellers, there's the problem of the Earth's density. We know from experiment how much gravity 1 kg of matter will produce at a given distance, and from this, we can deduce (from the strangth of Earth's gravity) that the mass of the Earth is 5.9742×1024 kg. If all that mass is compacted into a spherical shell only 100 kilometers thick, this spherical shell would have to have an average density of 118,000 kg per cubit meter, or 118 grams per cubic centimeter. For comparison, the lead that they make bullets and lead weights out of is only 11.34 grams per cubic centimeter -- so the material out of which this hollow Earth is composed would, on average, be over ten times the density of solid lead!

3) The hollow Earthers could, in principle, claim that it is their "central sun" that contributes most of the gravitational mass to the Earth, and that the mass of the spherical shell is actually relatively small. (Perhaps this central sun is a small white dwarf.) But then we have to ask: what kind of miraculous scaffolding is holding up this spherical shell so that it doesn't collapse under its own weight? Dirt and rocks aren't nearly strong enough to accomplish this feat. Perhaps the shell is made of arenak (http://www.rogermwilcox.name/arenak.html) or something.

rjh01
27th February 2007, 01:28 AM
You cannot have a "central sun" inside a hollow Earth. If the "central sun" is not EXACTLY in the centre of the spherical shell then the "central sun" will go towards the spherical shell and the whole planet will be destroyed.

Also in the inside of the spherical shell the sun will have its own gravity which would gravitationally attract anything inside.

For more ideas on the fantasy see Mr Verne's 'Journey to the centre of the Earth'.

tracer
27th February 2007, 01:31 PM
You cannot have a "central sun" inside a hollow Earth. If the "central sun" is not EXACTLY in the centre of the spherical shell then the "central sun" will go towards the spherical shell and the whole planet will be destroyed.
You sure about that? The gravitational field inside a uniform spherical shell gets zero (0) net contribution from the shell itself. The inner sun would be drifting as though it were in empty space, gravity-wise.

TriangleMan
27th February 2007, 09:35 PM
I've emphasized a key point:
The gravitational field inside a uniform spherical shell gets zero (0) net contribution from the shell itself.
Why would it be uniform though?

Zep
27th February 2007, 10:08 PM
The internal sun would be (1) very small, and (2) so exceedingly hot at the range of the Earth's radius that it would destroy the "inner world" in minutes.

I sense a scam by the organisers - they take a bunch of money off the marks, set them marching around Greenland for a week or two feeding them on raw seal-blubber, in a vain search for the entrance to the underworld. By the time they get back, the organisers and the money will be long gone.

rjh01
27th February 2007, 11:27 PM
You sure about that? The gravitational field inside a uniform spherical shell gets zero (0) net contribution from the shell itself. The inner sun would be drifting as though it were in empty space, gravity-wise.

Whatever. Even if you are correct that means that the inner sun will eventually hit the shell and that is the end.

The Don
28th February 2007, 08:48 AM
I sense a scam by the organisers - they take a bunch of money off the marks, set them marching around Greenland for a week or two feeding them on raw seal-blubber, in a vain search for the entrance to the underworld. By the time they get back, the organisers and the money will be long gone.
I disagree but only to the extent that I think they'll skedaddle with the deposits.

tracer
28th February 2007, 03:26 PM
The internal sun would be (1) very small, and (2) so exceedingly hot at the range of the Earth's radius that it would destroy the "inner world" in minutes.
Not necessarily. Maybe the internal "sun" isn't a thermonuclear fireball and doesn't glow by blackbody radiation like the real sun does. Maybe it's a great big spherical fluorescent light or something.

NobbyNobbs
28th February 2007, 03:46 PM
I sense a scam by the organisers - they take a bunch of money off the marks, set them marching around Greenland for a week or two feeding them on raw seal-blubber, in a vain search for the entrance to the underworld. By the time they get back, the organisers and the money will be long gone.

I disagree but only to the extent that I think they'll skedaddle with the deposits.


Every year for the past five years I taught a unit on pseudoscience in my 9th grade science class. I use quack internet sites a lot, and from the very beginning I've been using this "hollow earth voyage" one. The scam is that they collect a nonrefundable $5000 deposit, and then postpone the trip for a year due to "not filling all the spaces", or some such. As far as I can tell, they've done this every year for the past 5 at least.

If you can find 20 suckers a year worldwide, each willing to deposit $5000, that's a pretty good income for the price of maintaining a web page.

nw843x
21st March 2007, 04:53 PM
Every year for the past five years I taught a unit on pseudoscience in my 9th grade science class. I use quack internet sites a lot, and from the very beginning I've been using this "hollow earth voyage" one. The scam is that they collect a nonrefundable $5000 deposit, and then postpone the trip for a year due to "not filling all the spaces", or some such. As far as I can tell, they've done this every year for the past 5 at least.

If you can find 20 suckers a year worldwide, each willing to deposit $5000, that's a pretty good income for the price of maintaining a web page.

(bolded mine)
Why do I have a real job??
O ya .... a conscience. I am not so heartless as to take people's money and run.

my_wan
21st March 2007, 05:02 PM
Can I buy real estate there?

Cello Man
23rd March 2007, 01:36 PM
Why do I have a real job??
O ya .... a conscience. I am not so heartless as to take people's money and run.

Yeah...I could be another charismatic televangelist millionaire, but I like being able to sleep at night.

zombiebex
23rd March 2007, 01:42 PM
Yeah...I could be another charismatic televangelist millionaire, but I like being able to sleep at night.

I would love to be a fake psychic. Get hired to do all the readings and communications and what not, then at the end, tell them all exactly what I did and how I did it.

Don't know how much repeat business I'd get, though...

BillyJoe
24th March 2007, 03:28 AM
Don't know how much repeat business I'd get, though...That's okay, I'll do it next time and it will work again.
And you could probably recycle yourself in about a year or so.