God inspires violence?

[Shrike]

Don't know if this is posted elsewhere, but here goes.
Here: http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Ebbushman/God07.pdf you can find the results of research done by the Vrije Universiteit Amsterdam and The University of Michigan titled When God sanctions killing.
Makes an interesting read, although I honestly say that I'm not fully qualified (or not at all) to judge whether this research was carried out well, and with a big enough target pool.
Anyway, any reactions from the believer's side of this forum?

[edge]

You need to make it so that we can read it.
I have no ides what that is.
But I'll give you this.

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/new.html

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/chamishgiants.html

There were dam good reasons. ;)

[edge]

"For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah,
a preacher of righteousness,
with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly thereafter; and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men (for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day with {their} lawless deeds), then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment...Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come with their mocking, following after their own lusts, and saying, 'Where is the promise of His coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was from the beginning of creation.' For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water, through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water. But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men..." (2 Peter 2:4-3:7)

Jesus’ words
"And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it shall be also in the days of the Son of Man:
They were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.
"It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed." (Luke 17:26-30)

[edge]

There's about I don't know, 30 links or sites from these links.

"The craving of demons for a body, evident in the Gospels, offers at least some parallel to this hunger for sexual experience." -Derek Kidner
In 1947 an Arab boy tending his sheep accidentally discovered an ancient cave near the Dead Sea. In it were found a priceless collection of ancient scrolls which soon became known as the Dead Sea Scrolls or the Qumran Texts. Among these writings was one known as the Genesis Apocryphon. At first it was thought to be the long lost Book of Lamech. Although the scroll consisted of a speech by Lamech and a story about some of the patriarchs from Enoch to Abraham; it was not that book.
According to the Bible, Lamech was the son of Methuselah and the father of Noah. He was the ninth of the ten patriarchs of the antedeluvian world.
It is significant, however, that the Genesis Apocryphon mentions the Nephilim, and makes reference to the "sons of God" and the "daughters of men" introduced in Genesis 6. The Apocryphon also elaborates considerably on the succinct statements found in the Bible, and provides valuable insights into the way these ancient stories were interpreted by the ancient Jews.
The copy of the Genesis Apocryphon discovered at Qumran dates back to the 2nd century B.C., but it was obviously based on much older sources. When discovered in 1947, it had been much mutilated from the ravages of time and humidity. The sheets had become so badly stuck together that years passed before the text was deciphered and made known. When scholars finally made public its content, the document confirmed that celestial beings from the skies had landed on planet Earth. More than that, it told how these beings had mated with Earth-women and had begat giants.
Is this story myth or history, fable or fact? Specialized research has revealed that many ancient legends have a basis in fact. But to answer the question, let us consult the most authoritative document known to man--the Bible.
In Genesis 6:1-4 the "sons of God" are captivated by the beauty of the "daughters of men." They subsequently marry them and produce an offspring of giants known as the Nephilim. Genesis goes on to say that these Nephilim were "mighty men" and "men of renown."
"Sons of God"? "Daughters of men"? What sort of beings were these? Were they human or did they belong to an alien species from outer space?

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/enoch5.html

[Solus]

I would never have known... :p

[Lonewulf]

"Sons of God"? "Daughters of men"? What sort of beings were these? Were they human or did they belong to an alien species from outer space?

I lol'd.

So an alien species was able to copulate with us?

[Kopji]

You need to make it so that we can read it.
I have no ides what that is.
But I'll give you this.

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/new.html

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/chamishgiants.html

There were dam good reasons. ;)

Hi Edge,
You need Acrobat Reader to view it. It is free from http://www.adobe.com

The conclusion goes like this:

Does this mean that one should avoid reading religious canon for fear that the
violent episodes contained therein will cause one to become more aggressive, or that those who read the scriptures will become aggressive? Not necessarily. Violent stories that teach moral lessons or that are balanced with descriptions of victims’ suffering or the aggressor’s remorse can teach important lessons and have legitimate artistic merit (e.g., Stossel, 1997). Moreover, Nepstad (2004) argues that “religion has historically played a significant role in curbing violence, constraining aggression, and promoting
reconciliation and understanding between groups” (p. 297), presumably because the overriding message of the scriptures is one of peace and love. Taking a single, violent episode out of its overall context (as we did here) can produce a significant increase in aggression. To the extent that religious extremists engage in a selective reading of the scriptures, focusing on violent retribution toward unbelievers instead of the overall message of acceptance and understanding, we might expect to see increased brutality.
Such an outcome is certainly consistent with our results. People who believe that God sanctions violence are more likely to behave aggressively themselves.

I don't really know what to make of the study either. I am suspicious of the obvious 'unbeliever bias'. We like to criticize 'religious bias', but it works the other way too - we have our own biases and studies should be designed to eliminate them from the outcome as much as possible. There has not been much of an attempt at that here.

[edge]

I lol'd.

So an alien species was able to copulate with us?

To us they are alien. It is what is written in Genesis.
Fallen angels, also known as demons, now Barry Camish is a Hebrew scholar and has studied their Hebrew texts.
I'll look it up and list his credentials.
According to the scriptures, most of them, the fallen ones, were sent to the pit.
This occurred at the time of Noah, but not all of them were.
The ones that are there, in the pit are not allowed out till the final judgment of Christ.
These must be the really horrible ones.


Kopji, you are right I neglected to reload it, as I had to crash this computer and reload all my windows again.
Thanks I will get it now.

You’re right it doesn’t get to the heart of the matter.
I'll have to read the whole thing.

1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with [a] man forever, for he is mortal [b] ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."
4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time. 6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain. 7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth—men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air—for I am grieved that I have made them." 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the LORD.

[edge]

· The word which is translated, "giants", in the King James version of the Bible is, in Hebrew, "Nephilim", which means, "Those who fell, or ... the fallen ones". Jude, the brother of Jesus describes them as "angels, having left their first estate in heaven". These fallen angels came to earth for their own purposes, to interfere in the development of human civilization.

Scripture uses other names to describe these degraded fallen angels and their descendents in addition to the word Nephilim, they are...
o Rephaim - from the root rapha = spirits, shades Gen. 14:5
o Anakim - race of giants Num. 13:33 descendents of Nephilim
o Emim - the proud deserters, terrors, race of giants Gen. 14:5
o Zuzim- the evil ones, roaming things Gen. 14:5
o Zamzummims - the evil plotters, Deut. 2:20
o Zophim - watchers, angels who descended Num. 23, distinct from "holy watchers" aligned with God
o Sepherim - the many. . . .

http://www.mt.net/~watcher/


http://www.barrychamish.com/

[Lonewulf]

To us they are alien. It is what is written in Genesis.
Fallen angels, also known as demons, now Barry Camish is a Hebrew scholar and has studied their Hebrew texts.
I'll look it up and list his credentials.
According to the scriptures, most of them, the fallen ones, were sent to the pit.
This occurred at the time of Noah, but not all of them were.
The ones that are there, in the pit are not allowed out till the final judgment of Christ.
These must be the really horrible ones.

Well, I'm convinced.

Also, in Beowulf, Grendel was the son of Cain. :D

[edge]

Well, I'm convinced.

Also, in Beowulf, Grendel was the son of Cain. :D

It's intresting to say the least. ;)
What's in your avatar I have in real life.

[Lonewulf]

What's in your avatar I have in real life.

Hm? I'm not sure I understand the statement/question.

[Belz...]

God inspires violence?

God DEMANDS violence.

[edge]

Hm? I'm not sure I understand the statement/question.
Your wolf.
My pet.
He's a very good judge of people and we have taught him to say I love you.
He's really a mix not pure, part shepard some wolf and chow.
Very scary. :)

[Belz...]

He's a very good judge of people and we have taught him to say I love you.

He is a "very good judge of people", eh ? And how does he do that ? Telepathy ?

[Lonewulf]

Your wolf.
My pet.
He's a very good judge of people and we have taught him to say I love you.
He's really a mix not pure, part shepard some wolf and chow.
Very scary. :)

Half-wolves, depending on the strength of their wolf genetics, can be somewhat difficult to keep dependingly. Wolves are intelligent and rambunctious critters, and kept as a pet inside of a small house, they tend to damage their surroundings out of boredom.

[edge]

He is a "very good judge of people", eh ? And how does he do that ? Telepathy ?

He keeps them away.
If he likes you your in.
If he likes you you can pet him if he doesn't you won't have a hand.
If you have beer coming out your pores forget it, same with illegal drugs.
Only the good ones can get by him and the bad never try.
He's been right evrey time at least so far.


Half-wolves, depending on the strength of their wolf genetics, can be somewhat difficult to keep dependingly. Wolves are intelligent and rambunctious critters, and kept as a pet inside of a small house, they tend to damage their surroundings out of boredom.

He has done well in the house alone, even with his pet cat, his pet mind you.
In the truck I can leave the groceries and he won't touch them when I'm not in the truck.
But if a stranger walks by the truck he lets them know not to get too close because it’s his truck.
Same with burgers or subs, but if I start eating he expects a piece for waiting.
It’s as if he understands every word that I say.
Then he's got these sets of expressions that make us bust out.
My face boy. So much emotion. Defiantly a con artist you got to laugh.

[quixotecoyote]

Pfah, you want damage done to the interior of the house try ferrets. However after reading this thread, I'll hide the Bibles. Maybe it'll help.