A god that creates inferior beings?

[Malachi151]

Of course, I hate these arguments against gods because I already understand the human psychology behind god inventions, but here goes anyway:

As humans, we want our children to be superior to us. Every parent, well, most parents perhaps, want their offspring to be better than they are, to achieve more, and have a better life etc.

Furthermore, as humans, we have long been in the process of inventing machines that are superior to us in some way. Eventually I believe that we will create robots that are better than us in every or essentially every way.

Now, if we want to create beings that are better than us and are capable of doing so, as mere humans, shouldn't a god also want to create beings that are better than himself?

Don't we view the creation of beings better than ourselves as one of the greatest goods?

Would any person be considered good if they wanted their children to be inferior to them?

Would there be any purpose to create any machine that is inferior to humans at a given task? The only reason to create is to improve.

As obviously limited beings, we nevertheless find the ability to improve on our creations, to make them better than we are.

Should not a god who is the embodiment of the greatest good have sought to do the same?

Would not an omnipotent god be capable of creating beings greater than himself? Like creating a rock that he cannot lift, if an all powerful god can't create beings that are more powerful than himself then he isn't all powerful, and if he can then he isn't all powerful.

How could any being that created inferior beings be considered a true god? I submit that this is not possible, and that this is a proof against the existence of any god.

[VulcanWay]

If we're talking Biblically (I myself am an Atheist), god is the embodiment of "perfection." And you can't get better than 100%.

Also, it has to be within the power of an omnipotent creature to be able to create anything, including beings inferior to itself.

My own Biblical interpretation is also that humanity was created for the sole purpose of worshipping god and Earth was created for the sole purpose of testing humanity's worthiness for heaven. If you create a being of perfection, it cannot sin and therefore cannot be tested. If god could create a being more powerful than itself, it would have to worship its creation...

[VulcanWay]

And if we're talking non-Christian to something like the god(s) worshipped by more Pagan religions, humanity is not the paragon of creation - we're more equals with all other creations.

At least that's the way that I understand Wicca and other more nature-oriented religions.

[gypsey]

Malachi151
As humans, we want our children to be superior to us. Even parent, well, most parents perhaps, want their offspring to be better than they are, to achieve more, and have a better life etc.

Now, if we want to create beings that are better than us and are capable of doing so, as mere humans, shouldn't a god also want to create beings that are better than himself?



Most Parents do want their children to do better but perhaps the biblical god is more like some families I know, every time their children do something different or deviate from how they are being "raised" they will shout that they are " getting above their raising"
this in a thick southern accent and shouted at the cringing child in front of everyone in the area so that everyone will know what a horrible person the child is becoming.
one such child had taken a job that was considered to "uppity" and we all heard about it for months, yes one of the families is my own and it was my niece who took the job as receptionist at an attorneys office,
she actually had to wear nice clothes and makeup:jaw-dropp
Maybe god is from the hills of South Carolina?

Gypsey

[Darth Rotor]

she actually had to wear nice clothes and makeup:jaw-dropp
Maybe god is from the hills of South Carolina?

Gypsey
Whoa, He's not from Brooklyn? Rudy better do some refiguring. :p

DR

[Jeremy]

The argument is based upon the anthropomorphization of God's motivations, which is alright if you are arguing against someone who attributes such things to his or her god, but falls short otherwise.

[Lonewulf]

There was a story in "I, Robot" (the book, not the movie) that dealt with a robot that actually invented religion. This was his reasoning:

1) Robots are superior to humans, physically and mentally. Robots are hardier, faster-thinking, and more intelligent.
2) An inferior being cannot create a superior being.
3) However, a superior being can create an inferior being.
4) Therefore, a superior being must have created robots.
5) Therefore, a superior being also created humans.

In short, it invented religion. Even though it had, indeed, been created by humans.

Asimov was fun.

[Malachi151]

Yeah, I hate it when atheists put forward "inevitability" of god belief ideas, with the idea that "consciousness inevitability leads to the belief in god." That's completely bogus.

[VulcanWay]

Yeah, I hate it when atheists put forward "inevitability" of god belief ideas, with the idea that "consciousness inevitability leads to the belief in god." That's completely bogus.

How do you mean?

[Malachi151]

How do you mean?

What do you mean "how do I mean"?

[c4ts]

What's so bad about an inferior god that makes superior humans? We all need someone to feel better than.

[VulcanWay]

What do you mean "how do I mean"?

Was that referring to one of the posts or just an off-hand comment? I don't see anything in this thread that relates to the comment.

Just looking for clarification. :)

[gypsey]

Darth Rotor

Whoa, He's not from Brooklyn? Rudy better do some refiguring.

maybe he was originally from brooklyn but raised hillbilly:duck:

[Humphreys]

Greater and better in what way?

I don't know of any humans who have wiped out all living creatures on earth bar a small selection of chosen ones, so we're winning on the "not killing everyone" kind of betterness, right?

[chriswl]

Its hard to see why a perfect being would create anything. You create something because you lack something or need something even if its just a need to express yourself. But a perfect being had no needs or lacks he is complete.

He doesn't even have desires because to desire is to wish that circumstances were different from what they are and for an omnipotent being such a gap between reality and his desires could only exist for an infinitessimally short time before he remedied it. He will at all times live in his perfect universe.

It is doubtful we can draw a line between a perfect being and his (perfect) universe because he has as much control over (omnipotence) and knowledge of (omniscience) his universe as he does of himself.

This God/world would be perfect and completely static as any change in their status could only result in diminishment.

At which point we should start to realise that we have no clear idea what we mean by "perfect" and its a silly idea to base a theology on.

My own theory is that we ended up with this grotesque, pumped up omni-everything cartoon caricature of a God through a process of "My god is Better than Your God" inflation. The twist in the tail is that we end up with a God that is too big to hide in the gaps left by science and thus will probably not survive to the end of this century in the technologically advanced nations. But lesser gods and superstitions may thrive.

[David Swidler]

What's so bad about an inferior god that makes superior humans? We all need someone to feel better than.

Don't Oprah viewers fill that niche?