Why does our "sophisticated" society reward morons?

[Moochie]

Reading the most recent commentary about Sylvia Browne, and feeling plenty outraged, I am left wondering why people in countries like America, Australia, and England reward morons like Sylvia Browne with wealth beyond most people's imagining.

I mean, these are Western, apparently civilized lands, who lead in so many areas of science and rational endeavor, yet a preponderance of their populations appear to believe in utmost gobbledegook.

As the late, great Julius Sumner Miller used to say, why is it so?

Frankly, I haven't a clue. The thought makes me miserable.

M.

[KingMerv00]

I don't think Sylvia is a moron really. If there are any morons involved here, it would be those that give her so much money.

The morons get punished.

[Moochie]

I don't think Sylvia is a moron really. If there are any morons involved here, it would be those that give her so much money.

The morons get punished.

Of course she's a moron -- as are all those who exploit their fellows. Had a good look at your boss lately?

It's moronic behavior, possibly brought about by gross overpopulation. It's dog-eat-dog writ large, although real dogs are possibly more civilized than humans in that respect.

Where have you been?

M.

[Walk The Line]

Of course she's a moron -- as are all those who exploit their fellows. Had a good look at your boss lately?

While Sylvia Browne can be called many things- fraud, charlatan, crook, or evil, she can't be called be called "a moron." Calling her a moron implies that she is stupid. Unfortunately, she has managed to systematically swindle millions of dollars from the vulnerable and grief-stricken through cold-reading. She has used her leverage to get a weekly appearance on a nationally syndicated talk show, which in turn, promotes her books and readings. She has created a money making empire, which she plans on leaving to her offspring when she passes.

Despicable? Of course.

Moronic? No.

[Hutch]

Reading the most recent commentary about Sylvia Browne, and feeling plenty outraged, I am left wondering why people in countries like America, Australia, and England reward morons like Sylvia Browne with wealth beyond most people's imagining.

I mean, these are Western, apparently civilized lands, who lead in so many areas of science and rational endeavor, yet a preponderance of their populations appear to believe in utmost gobbledegook.

As the late, great Julius Sumner Miller used to say, why is it so?

Frankly, I haven't a clue. The thought makes me miserable.

M.

Moochie, read the Science Fiction story "The Marching Morons" by C.M. Kornbluth (or read the plot and spoilers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Not so sure we apparenly civilized Westeners are all that smart...

[Slimething]

The thought makes me miserable.

I feel your pain but you're letting your emotions get the better of you. I know the outrage but there's so much anyone can do. Giving yourself an ulcer will help no one.

It's part of the passing show. Maybe, just maybe, a few of the bilked will become skeptics. Here's hoping, anyhow!

[JoeTheJuggler]

I don't know that it's "us" or "our society" that rewards the kinds of people you're speaking of. I think it's more that they're selfish, greedy bastards who are really good at grabbing stuff.

If that puzzles you, I'd wonder why you think things would be otherwise.

I think a lot of people face this and sort of reject it by thinking "they'll get theirs someday"--like Judgment, or karmic justice or something. At least in some ways, nice guys do in fact finish last.

[Brian Jackson]

Rent the movie Idiocracy. (imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)). It explained a lot for me :D

[Gargoyle]

Reading the most recent commentary about Sylvia Browne, and feeling plenty outraged, I am left wondering why people in countries like America, Australia, and England reward morons like Sylvia Browne with wealth beyond most people's imagining.
.../snip/...
As the late, great Julius Sumner Miller used to say, why is it so?

Difficult question... but very important!
Personally I do not think Sylvia Browne is a moron, but rather a very shrewd manipulator who will walk over corpses to get what she wants.
And I suspect that she lacks basic empathy skills, considering her "clients" often vulnerable emotional state (missing children etc)
Sadly, some people are capable of just anything to get their hands on peoples money.

Maybe someone knowledgeable in psychology could give an opinion on this?

[Moochie]

Moochie, read the Science Fiction story "The Marching Morons" by C.M. Kornbluth (or read the plot and spoilers here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Marching_Morons

Not so sure we apparenly civilized Westeners are all that smart...

Thanks for that -- I've been a fan of science fiction/fantasy for a long time.

M.

[Moochie]

I feel your pain but you're letting your emotions get the better of you. I know the outrage but there's so much anyone can do. Giving yourself an ulcer will help no one.

It's part of the passing show. Maybe, just maybe, a few of the bilked will become skeptics. Here's hoping, anyhow!

Yeah, I know.

I do have a sense of humor, somewhere.

M.

[Moochie]

I don't know that it's "us" or "our society" that rewards the kinds of people you're speaking of. I think it's more that they're selfish, greedy bastards who are really good at grabbing stuff.

If that puzzles you, I'd wonder why you think things would be otherwise.

I think a lot of people face this and sort of reject it by thinking "they'll get theirs someday"--like Judgment, or karmic justice or something. At least in some ways, nice guys do in fact finish last.

Wise beyond your years, ain't ya? :)

Thanks for your post.

M.

[Moochie]

Rent the movie Idiocracy. (imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)). It explained a lot for me :D

:) Thanks for the tip -- looks like a good one.

M.

[Roadtoad]

I hate to tell you this, Mooch, but being a compassionate society, we tend to do what we can to protect the stupid. This allows them to breed, and in the end, they run amok. This forces people to do the compassionate thing; make laws which further protect the idiots, which makes life a little more difficult for the rest of us.

Why, for example, do we need laws which prohibit distracted driving? I get calls on my cell phone while I drive, which is fine when I'm running along a flat, straight stretch of highway, with little or no traffic. However, I'm running in mountains a lot, and usually in heavy traffic, so I have to tell people, "I'll call you back." Seriously, what is so tough about saying to someone, "I'm in the middle of something, I'll get back to you."

The theologian, Dr. Donald Gray Barnhouse once said, "You don't put a hospital a the bottom of a cliff. You put a fence around it if you have any brains." While I'm at odds these days with Dr. Barnhouse's beliefs, his basic idea in the quote is still sound. You teach people basic common sense, and you wind up preventing a lot of the misery they would otherwise encounter. You teach people that dead is dead, that they don't stop by after death to have conversations with you through money grubbing charlatans.

You teach them that liquids are not magnetic, so buying "special magnets" like they sell at Harbor Freight for your fuel line won't improve your gas mileage. You teach them basic science, so they don't get rooked by guys selling "audio filters" that are nothing more than a length of wire in a metal box. You teach them that banking policies are such that your bank will not send you an e-mail asking for your personal information, but that such an act is being perpetrated by a thief.

In other words, what we need in this country are more parents. It means you have to decide when you have kids what your priorities are: Your career or your family.

[Brian Jackson]

:) Thanks for the tip -- looks like a good one.

M.

You'll like it. Fairly low-brow, but you'll appreciate it.

[CaptainManacles]

Rent the movie Idiocracy. (imdb (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/)). It explained a lot for me :D

man, I just watched that movie, better then I expected, though my expectations were low.

But really, I think we have to look at things on a grander scale. On average such people do not end up rich and successful. And how much "success" she's really had is subjective, I would not want to be in her shoes. Otherwise why not do what she does? Isn't it more moronic to not pursue what you consider "success" out of some arbitrary sense of morality?

[Ladewig]

I am baffled as to why you included the U.S. in a list of sophisticated countries. Most USAians have neither the understanding of high culture, the refined tastes in entertainment, nor the educated world view that comes with sophistication. Why shouldn't a society that panders to the lowest common denominator give fame and fortune to the likes of Sylvia Browne?

[Roadtoad]

I am baffled as to why you included the U.S. in a list of sophisticated countries. Most USAians have neither the understanding of high culture, the refined tastes in entertainment, nor the educated world view that comes with sophistication. Why shouldn't a society that panders to the lowest common denominator give fame and fortune to the likes of Sylvia Browne?

Far more Americans have an understanding of higher culture than you realize. For one thing, it's actually fairly cheap and readily available, where in other parts of the world, access is quite limited. We simply choose to be lazy in our thinking.

[Reno]

I am often ashamed of being British. High culture? Two words: Jade, Goody.

[htf666]

If your ashamed because of Jade Goody think how the poor septic tanks feel.
Two more words. George Bush. At least Goody doesn't have a button to push.

[Dustin Kesselberg]

I don't think Sylvia is a moron really. If there are any morons involved here, it would be those that give her so much money.

The morons get punished.

No one ever went broke underestimating the ignorance of the public.

[BillyJoe]

"You don't put a hospital a the bottom of a cliff. You put a fence around it if you have any brains."

Where do you put the fence?
Around "a hospital"?
Or around "the bottom of a cliff"?

Seems to me it wouldn't matter either way. :cool:

[BillyJoe]

Reading the most recent commentary about Sylvia Browne, and feeling plenty outraged, I am left wondering why people in countries like America, Australia, and England reward morons like Sylvia Browne with wealth beyond most people's imagining.Depends on what you mean by reward. If your focus is financial well, yes, she is rewarded. It only bothers you, though, if that is your focus. The solution may be to shift your focus.

(Sorry, I'm not preaching here, just thinking)

[rjh01]

Where do you put the fence?
Around "a hospital"?
Or around "the bottom of a cliff"?

Seems to me it wouldn't matter either way. :cool:

How about putting the fence at the top of a cliff? I would have thought you would have heard the story before. Please do not find fault with a minor error, least others laugh at your foot that is in your mouth.

[BillyJoe]

How about putting the fence at the top of a cliff? Ah, of course. :cool:

[Ladewig]

Far more Americans have an understanding of higher culture than you realize. For one thing, it's actually fairly cheap and readily available, where in other parts of the world, access is quite limited. We simply choose to be lazy in our thinking.

If you want to argue that Americans have access to higher culture, then I will agree with you. If you want to argue that Americans have an understanding of higher culture, then I will most assuredly disagree with you.

The Arts and Entertainment cable channel was started in 1984 for the purpose of providing artistic entertainment. Their current programming includes "Dog the Bounty Hunter" and "Growing Up Gotti," each a quintessential example of the opposite of artistic entertainment. The Bravo channel was started in 1980 to bring symphonies, operas, and plays to cable. Today their programming consists of celebrity poker tournaments, reality shows such as "Project Runway," and Anna Nicole (http://www.bravotv.com/Events_and_Specials/index.php) news.

If you have evidence that Americans have enough of an understanding of high culture to be called sophisticated, please present it.

[Roadtoad]

I think, Dude, you just made my point.

Yes, we have access, and there is, to a certain extent, an understanding of higher culture. We simply, for reasons I have yet to grasp, refuse to engage our brains. We'd rather deal with the puerile and childish.

While on the road, I keep books on hand. I read, or listen to jazz or classical music. I have access to some of the great movies, and sometimes, even recordings of the great plays of the past. Doesn't mean I have the chance to watch or listen to it all, but I've got a goal to at least read the 100 greatest books ever written, and beyond, and at least try and figure out why they've gotten the title.

As to Anna Nicole Smith, her death wasn't a tragedy, it was simply inevitable. She went from living with excess to becoming excess personified. That was the tragedy, not her death.

As to the rest of it, it would certainly explain the popularity of Joe Cartoon.

[BillyJoe]

Roadtoad, you must be a very good driver, I'm amazed at how you avoided that accident.

[Roadtoad]

Roadtoad, you must be a very good driver, I'm amazed at how you avoided that accident.

Which one? Anna Nicole, or the one with the chick with the huge hooters wearing the black see-through top, driving the blue Nissan Sentra in Portland, OR, the one with the "DRIVE NAKED" bumper sticker?

[Dark Jaguar]

I am baffled as to why you included the U.S. in a list of sophisticated countries. Most USAians have neither the understanding of high culture, the refined tastes in entertainment, nor the educated world view that comes with sophistication. Why shouldn't a society that panders to the lowest common denominator give fame and fortune to the likes of Sylvia Browne?

What exactly is "high culture" anyway? Tastes in entertainment are pretty subjective. Education is the one good point you have there.

[BillyJoe]

What exactly is "high culture" anyway? Yeah, when the head of the humanist society, Paul Kurtz, talked about "high culture" he immediately lost about the half his audience. He meant classical music and specifically NOT popular music. I guess we have to make allowances for him, though, being in his 80s.

[SezMe]

Reading the most recent commentary about Sylvia Browne, and feeling plenty outraged, I am left wondering why people in countries like America, Australia, and England reward morons like Sylvia Browne with wealth beyond most people's imagining.
First, I agree with some of the other posters who note that she is not a moron but a con woman of huge self-promotional skills.

But I wonder why you single out those countries. Are there any countries where slick con men don't take the masses for money? Consider India, for a country. It is awash with con men who take the form of gurus and bilk much of the country. Or Russia with its penchant for the paranormal. Or Mexico with its adoration of that guy who "witnessed" the virgin Mary.

I could go on and on but you get the point. Show me a country and I'll show you woo that is accepted on a disgusting scale.

[Moochie]

First, I agree with some of the other posters who note that she is not a moron but a con woman of huge self-promotional skills.

But I wonder why you single out those countries. Are there any countries where slick con men don't take the masses for money? Consider India, for a country. It is awash with con men who take the form of gurus and bilk much of the country. Or Russia with its penchant for the paranormal. Or Mexico with its adoration of that guy who "witnessed" the virgin Mary.

I could go on and on but you get the point. Show me a country and I'll show you woo that is accepted on a disgusting scale.

I singled out those countries because those countries usually reference themselves as belonging to the "First World," as opposed to the "Second" and "Third Worlds," as though those FW countries had somehow cornered the incidence of intelligence in their populations. To me, it seems idiotic, but there you go.

M.

[SezMe]

I always related those terms to economic development, not intellectual development although you would probably be right to correlate the two.

[jeffq]

... (Sylvia Browne's scam is) ... moronic behavior, possibly brought about by gross overpopulation. It's dog-eat-dog writ large, although real dogs are possibly more civilized than humans in that respect.

Let's not confuse intelligence with ethical behavior. I don't believe we have yet established any human society, rich or poor, that doesn't provide human vultures an adequate feast. There is survival value in a small subpopulation having no ethics to restrain its inherent selfishness. Only when this subpopulation grows beyond a minor parasitic pestilence does it interfere with the larger population's survivability. Perhaps the plethora of Sylvia Brownes in the U.S. is merely an expected consequence of the available pickings from the world's wealthiest nation. Disappointing, but not exactly surprising.

[Darth Rotor]

As to the rest of it, it would certainly explain the popularity of Joe Cartoon.
Why do you hate Joe Cartoon? ;) Joe Cartoon is one of my guilty pleasures.

"I was shaved against my will by Michael Jackson's monkey!"

DR

[frank462]

There have always been uneducated and ignorant people. And there have always been others to take advantage of them. For example, Heron of Alexandria (c. 10 – 70) was a mechanical genius. He also created devices used in temples to fool believers. These devices included automatic doors, coin operated holy water dispensers, and mechanical singing prediction birds.

As it is now, and ever has been ....... it's all about the money.


.

[Moochie]

Let's not confuse intelligence with ethical behavior. I don't believe we have yet established any human society, rich or poor, that doesn't provide human vultures an adequate feast. There is survival value in a small subpopulation having no ethics to restrain its inherent selfishness. Only when this subpopulation grows beyond a minor parasitic pestilence does it interfere with the larger population's survivability. Perhaps the plethora of Sylvia Brownes in the U.S. is merely an expected consequence of the available pickings from the world's wealthiest nation. Disappointing, but not exactly surprising.

Yeah, I reckon that a population that uncritically believes in the "American Dream" fantasy deserves all it gets.

M.

[Moochie]

There have always been uneducated and ignorant people. And there have always been others to take advantage of them. For example, Heron of Alexandria (c. 10 – 70) was a mechanical genius. He also created devices used in temples to fool believers. These devices included automatic doors, coin operated holy water dispensers, and mechanical singing prediction birds.

As it is now, and ever has been ....... it's all about the money.


.

Of course it is, but how many nations have pretensions to the contrary?

M.

[BillyJoe]

Yeah, I reckon that a population that uncritically believes in the "American Dream" fantasy deserves all it gets.The fantasy is that it is a dream that everyone can make come true, but the reality is that it only works, and can only ever work, for a very small minority.

[Moochie]

The fantasy is that it is a dream that everyone can make come true, but the reality is that it only works, and can only ever work, for a very small minority.

Gosh -- sounds like Amway and (insert scam of your choice here) to me. :D

M.