Ugly Religion In The News [Archive]

evildave

27th July 2003, 09:31 PM

Equatorial Guinea's "God"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3098007.stm
In a programme called Bidze-Nduan (Bury the fire) which deals with "peace, tranquillity and the order reigning in the country" the radio declared that President Teodoro Obiang Nguema was "in permanent contact with the Almighty".

More lovely possibilities to consider for those American morons who believe we need more "god" in our government.

Cel Phone Text Message Divorce "Legal"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3100143.stm
The government's adviser on religious affairs, the man who counsels Malaysia's Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad, said as long as the message was clear and unambiguous it was valid under Islamic Sharia law.

Temendous new possibilities for people who get their hands on other people's phones. Naturally, all a wife needs to do is get hold of her husband's phone, and she has an instant divorce. Women's lib gets a point.

Operation Rescue Protester (Retard) Gets Tasered
http://www.biblicalrecorder.org/content/news/2003/7_25_2003/ne250703protester.shtml
Two deacons tried to get the man to be quiet or leave, but he refused. Police officers, who were monitoring the protest outside, came in and tried to get the man to leave, but had to use a stun gun three times to subdue him, Ayers said.

"Never in all my ministry would I have expected anything like that," he said.

Ayers said another man had taken off his shirt to reveal a black T-shirt with white writing that said, "Abortion is murder. Homosexuality is sin. Islam is evil. Some things are black and white."

evildave

27th July 2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Yahweh
So is religion more like a fungus or a virus?

Virus, as in "Viruses of the Mind" (http://www.memes.net/index.php3?request=displaypage&NodeID=270).

evildave

28th July 2003, 10:22 PM

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=126&art_id=iol105914908278W253&set_id=1A

New Delhi - An Indian woman who was branded a witch has been forced to eat pig faeces, it was reported on Wednesday.

evildave

29th July 2003, 09:37 PM

Bakker fraud losers to collect $6.54 each
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0703/29ptl.html
The nearly 165,000 people around the world who lost money to former PTL televangelist Jim Bakker will soon get some money back: $6.54 each.

Republicans trying to find balance with televangelist
http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/6368185.htm
Earlier this month Robertson accused President Bush of wrongly undermining Liberian President Charles Taylor, a murderous thug by most people's reckoning. Robertson, who invested $8 million in a Liberian gold-mining venture four years ago with Taylor's help, called Taylor "a Christian, Baptist president" whom the United States should leave alone.

Group rallies for Commandments
http://www.charleston.net/stories/072903/sta_29command.shtml
MONTGOMERY, ALA.--Leaders of three Christian organizations urged people to kneel in prayer on the sidewalks, steps and entrances of the Alabama Judicial Building to prevent removal of a Ten Commandments monument.
"As for me personally, I am willing to do whatever it takes," Giles said.

(Give three cheers for the LRA while you're at it, losers! That reminds me, let's see what they're up to today...)

http://allafrica.com/stories/200307290592.html
http://allafrica.com/stories/200307290040.html

Well, here are some other people doing "whatever it takes" to get the Ten Commandments into government! Good company, I'm sure.

subgenius

30th July 2003, 01:33 AM

Keep it up Good David, you now have the burden of keeping us informed. Its hard work but someone's gotta do it.

Roadtoad

30th July 2003, 07:04 PM

Ah, yes. More scummy news about a scummy guy.

Geez, at some point, you might think someone would realize that Brother Pat is an all-out FRAUD. But no, it's far more comforting to think of him as that nice man who prays for you on TV.

Frankly, I'd like to run the sleazeball over about two or three times. Give the @$$hole a chromeplated enema.

evildave

30th July 2003, 09:33 PM

The sad thing is, some of those dolts who get the $6.54 back will give it to another televangelist.

The Devil Made Me Do It
http://www.freep.com/news/locoak/nmurd30_20030730.htm
A Redford Township man who admitted deliberately plowing through a Troy intersection last year killing a Ferndale motorist -- but insisted he was acting on Satan's orders -- pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity Tuesday to murder and assault charges.

Bush wants marriage reserved for heterosexuals
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/30/bush.gay.marriage.ap/index.html
"I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that," the president said a wide-ranging news conference at the White House Rose Garden.

Some Kids Proud NOT to Have Ten Commandments
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1394935,00.html
Kampala - About 290 people, mostly children, were rescued by government forces from the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), which was forcing them to fight a guerilla war, an army official said on Wednesday.

(Keep in mind: The LRA wants a theocrasy based on the "Ten Commandments".)

LRA Drowned some[/n]
http://allafrica.com/stories/200307170384.html
LRA rebels drowned more than 45 children they abducted from Teso region over the weekend.

Environment state minister Lt Gen Jeje Odongo said the gruesome murder followed pressure from the army which forced the rebels to cross an overflooded river.

[b]House amendments target Pledge, Commandments rulings
http://www.abpnews.com/abpnews/story.cfm?newsId=3741
Hostettler said he does not trust the Supreme Court to do the right thing.

"The framers of the Constitution never intended for the fickle sentiments of as few as five people in black robes, unelected and unaccountable to the people, to have the power to make such fundamental decisions for society," Hostettler said during House debate. "That power was crafted and reserved for the legislature. We do not have to put our faith in the faint possibility that some day five people in black robes will wake up and see that they have usurped the authority to legislate and will constrain themselves from straying from their constitutional boundaries."

evildave

31st July 2003, 08:32 PM

Peace and Brotherhood
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2974045,00.html
JERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's parliament on Thursday passed a new law that would force Palestinians who marry Israelis to live separate lives or move out of Israel despite charges from human rights groups and Israeli Arabs that the law is racist.

When In Rome...
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-italy31.html
ROME--Visitors can no longer use the splendid entrance at Rome's Basilica of St. Mary Major--it's sealed off because drunks and lovers had made it a hangout.

In Florence, Catholic officials complain that church steps are turning into latrines at night. Police in Venice plan to fine tourists for leaving lunch leftovers in the square outside St. Mark's Basilica.

Roadtoad

1st August 2003, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Peace and Brotherhood
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2974045,00.html

When In Rome...
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-italy31.html

Hey, no fair about the Vatican. I met this really cute redhead years ago in Rome, (nice bod, sweet voice, great personality, beautiful all the way around...), and we had a great time in just that same spot...

Doing the same thing...

(Oh, come on. Don't tell me I need to explain myself!)

Yahzi

1st August 2003, 12:46 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlatest/story/0,1280,-2978727,00.html

ROME (AP) - The city has pulled the plug on the tiny private Italian broadcaster that covers all of Pope John Paul II's public activities over concerns about electromagnetic waves from transmission towers on a Roman hillside.

Telepace went off the air Thursday after the city took down the transmission tower on Monte Mario, a Roman hillside, following a court order. Parents of children who attend schools on Monte Mario had battled for years to have the hillside's transmission towers removed because they fear that the electromagnetic waves could harm children's health. A regional administrative court ruled in favor of the parents.

Haha! The woo-woos are turning on each other! Rank supersition battling rank superstition!

:D

evildave

1st August 2003, 09:45 PM

Christian Nudists Buy A Camp
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/01/Pasco/Christian_nudist_buys.shtml

Black Church Offers Money For White Attendance
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3203295

evildave

3rd August 2003, 12:34 PM

Car Crash Reveals Racist Church in Louisiana
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3207425
NEW ORLEANS, La. (Reuters) - A car crash this week in a town near New Orleans revealed that a building thought to be a home improvement business was actually a white supremacist church, police said on Friday.

Cat mutilations in Denver, Salt Lake blamed on wildlife
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0801catattacks-ON.html
AURORA, Colo. - Colorado authorities joined their colleagues in Utah on Friday in blaming 45 Denver-area cat slayings in the past year on wildlife, ending weeks of suspicion that budding psychopaths and devil worshippers were killing the pets.

There you go: modern thinking all the way. My kitty turned up mauled and it musta bin SATANISTS!

KevG

4th August 2003, 05:42 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Christian Nudists Buy A Camp
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/01/Pasco/Christian_nudist_buys.shtml

Come to think of it, maybe I should give Christianity another shot.

"There's no one who goes in the nude here you wouldn't pay to put their clothes back on. We're all old, ugly and fat."

Or not. :eek:

crocodile deathroll

4th August 2003, 07:19 AM

You know what I will deal with Rev. Scott Mansfield. I will go up to Holy Communion and as he places the holy bread in my mouth it will stick my finger down my throat and vomit it back with my last lunch into his holy golden chalice.
http://216.40.249.192/s/cwm/3dlil/puke.gif
Sorry about the mess.

Hawk_Watcher

4th August 2003, 10:53 AM

This group is real. If there is a hell, it is these people who would populate it. Of course these same people probably believe that Ghandi is in hell.

www.godhatesfags.com

crocodile deathroll

4th August 2003, 03:51 PM

I am suspect it is just a spoof and they are just a send up group of all other fundie cretins.
Here is a flier from that website concerning Bob Hope being judged and sentenced to hell.
Bob Hope.pdf (http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/jul2003/Hope_in_Hell_7-30-2003.pdf)

They surely must be joking

Roadtoad

4th August 2003, 04:58 PM

Originally posted by Hawk_Watcher
This group is real. If there is a hell, it is these people who would populate it. Of course these same people probably believe that Ghandi is in hell.

www.godhatesfags.com

Lovely. Just lovely. Did Billiefan2000 give you the link?

Hawk_Watcher

4th August 2003, 05:37 PM

No, the site was in an article in the Harrisburg, Pa, newspaper, "The Patriot News". The godhatesfags group is coming to that area to picket a documentary about the life of a local gay man who committed suicide.

Roadtoad

4th August 2003, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Hawk_Watcher
No, the site was in an article in the Harrisburg, Pa, newspaper, "The Patriot News". The godhatesfags group is coming to that area to picket a documentary about the life of a local gay man who committed suicide.

My opinion of this group, having now seen their site, and their vile, hateful flyer about Bob Hope, (who, by the way, has contributed far more to the betterment of the world than they ever will) shall be brief.

Bunch of whiny, chickensh**, half@$$ed, lowlife, trailertrash, inbred, gutless, head-up-the-assed, cowardly, buttsniffing, bigoted, hateful, anally retentive, f***headed, bitchy, white trashed, brain challenged, Godless, obfuscating, meretricious, lowbrowed, Fumb Ducks.

Roadtoad

4th August 2003, 05:59 PM

Originally posted by crocodile deathroll
I am suspect it is just a spoof and they are just a send up group of all other fundie cretins.
Here is a flier from that website concerning Bob Hope being judged and sentenced to hell.
Bob Hope.pdf (http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/jul2003/Hope_in_Hell_7-30-2003.pdf)

They surely must be joking

No, CD. They're not joking. They are cowards. They are the same bunch of losers who "protested" when Randy Shilts was laid to rest. When they were opposed, they turned tail and ran like the cockroaches they are.

I would like nothing more than to see these people's "protest" picketed by those who oppose their bigotry. And frankly, I wish I could be there to join in the opposition to "Godhatesfags."

I'd like to run 'em all over. But, with a wife and kids to take care of, I'll just settle for showing up whenever they show their faces, and making sure they're mocked mercilessly.

Zep

4th August 2003, 06:33 PM

A while ago I had a little look around their website, including the "picture gallery". While it horrified me to see really young children holding up signs showing sodomy (I bet they thought they were cute pictures!), I noticed something else too: There's very few people in this group - it seems to be the same faces turning up again and again. Sometimes there were only one or two people at each "protest". So I would be willing to estimate there are less than two dozen actual "members" of this "congregation" all up.

And now it seems one person has learned how to use the word processor and the scanner, and has a copy of Frontpage. Whoopee-frickin-doo.

So here's a long shot from me - I suspect all the people in this group belong to the same family, either by birth or marriage. Wonder if that's true...

Anyway, they are a bunch of complete morons. And I won't waste any more good electrons on strings of further invective.

Zep

evildave

4th August 2003, 09:07 PM

A bumper crop...

Lash him and throw him in prison for his wife's actions.
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1&section=0&article=29780&d=4&m=8&y=2003&pix=kingdom.jpg&category=Kingdom
RIYADH, 4 August 2003 — A court in Jeddah sentenced a businessman to three years in prison for the torture inflicted by his wife on their Indonesian maid, a newspaper reported yesterday.

Bloodthirsty or a classic? Gibson's film of Christ's last days alarms Jewish groups
http://film.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,12589,1011871,00.html
"When we read the screenplay our sense was this wasn't really something you could fix. All the way through, the Jews are portrayed as bloodthirsty," said Sister Mary C Boys, a professor at New York's Union Theological Seminary. "We're really concerned that this could be one of the great crises in Christian-Jewish relations."

Monkey see, Monkey Do
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,6903,1011460,00.html
The Observer can reveal that Blair is to allow Christian organisations and other 'faith groups' a central role in policy-making in a decisive break with British traditions that religion and government should not mix.

Ha! You Brits must be having fun!

White Pride Fest failed to attract many racists this year
http://www.southbendtribune.com/stories/2003/08/03/local.20030803-sbt-FULL-D1-White_Pride_Fest_fai.sto
Only two or three dozen KKK members and others showed up for the second annual White Pride Fest.

Just for Grins...

NATIONAL PRAYER DAY - PRAY FOR THE DEATH OF BILL O'REILLY
http://www.larryflynt.com/national_prayer_day.html

evildave

5th August 2003, 09:27 PM

LA Woman Announces Result of Priest Maternity Test
http://www.sacbee.com/state_wire/story/7161424p-8108616c.html
Milla and her attorney announced the results of a court-ordered paternity test Monday at the entrance to Our Lady of the Angels Cathedral in downtown Los Angeles. They said the test found that her father was a priest named Valentine Tugade, one of seven priests Rita Milla, Jacqueline's mother, says she had sex with.

Ooh, I bet a few paranoia buffs will eat this one up.

Radical Islam's 'plan' to take over America
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33898
A refugee from the Muslim Middle East thinks he has discovered Islam's 20-point plan for conquering the United States by 2020 – a plan revealed in the latest issue of Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0307/fc3a78c0414403ef787b.jpeg
Raelian nekked crop circle.
http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/SC0307/S00077.htm

Go to the site, and you can get a bigger version of the picture...

evildave

6th August 2003, 10:18 PM

Official recognition of voodoo in Haiti
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/218/nation/Official_recognition_of_voodoo_in_Haiti_stirs_enth usiasm_concern+.shtml

School board member tells Slay he is cursed
The letter consists almost entirely of a passage in Deuteronomy in which Moses spells out the calamities that would attend the Israelites if they strayed from God.

Yahweh

6th August 2003, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Go to the site, and you can get a bigger version of the picture...
No thanks...

Wow, how did everyone remain so calm when they took that picture... the man:woman ratio is leaning over toward the left--d'oh I mean men's side just a bit...

Ossai

8th August 2003, 05:28 AM

Vatican Covered Up Sex Crimes?
http://cbs11tv.com/localnews/topstories_story_218191501.html

From the article
Now it turns out the orders for this cover up were written in Rome at the highest levels of the Vatican.
and
Bishops are instructed to pursue these cases "in the most secretive way...restrained by a perpetual silence...and everyone {including the alleged victim) ...is to observe the strictest secret, which is commonly regarded as a secret of the Holy Office...under the penalty of excommunication."

Roadtoad

8th August 2003, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Ossai
Vatican Covered Up Sex Crimes?
http://cbs11tv.com/localnews/topstories_story_218191501.html

I started to read the .pdf file in the article, and couldn't go on. I was actually getting sick.

Bernard Law, the former bishop in Boston, apparently was following some very clear and established orders. That the Vatican would even think of condoning this barbaric behavior, (and, yes, in spite of what they may claim, THEY CONDONED IT when they merely shuffled priests from parish to parish), is damnable.

SOBs.

evildave

10th August 2003, 10:14 PM

Priest Arrested, Accused Of Soliciting Prostitute
http://www.local6.com/news/2379587/detail.html
A Roman Catholic priest was arrested during the weekend for soliciting a prostitute and masturbating in his car, according to Orange County sheriff's officials.

Yee-haw!

Pastor's Parenting Advice KILLS
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,510045260,00.html?

Cassandra's parents, Jennete and Richard Killpack, are accused of giving her so much water that she died. The Springville couple say they were given the discipline advice at the Cascade center — an assertion Cascade owners and therapists vehemently deny.

...

Still, according to a copy of the state action, investigators allege that Reber came to Utah from Oregon after officials there moved to pull his therapy license.
According to a copy of the Oregon petition, investigators there alleged that from 1999 to 2000 Reber rolled several foster children in sheets so they couldn't move. Then, he pushed his fingers and fists into the children's ribs to cause pain.
In one case, Reber allegedly pushed his elbow into the child's abdomen so hard the child vomited.

Isn't it just so nice that all you need is a web-order ordination and you can violate and abuse children entrusted to you.

Muslim Woman Claims She Was Denied Homeless Shelter
http://www.ksat.com/news/2388225/detail.html
SAN ANTONIO -- A homeless Muslim woman claimed she and her two young children were denied shelter at the Salvation Army recently because she refused to participate in Christian Bible classes.

Ahh, that famous selfless Christian charity at its best. Just wanting to help people - as long as they're CHRISTIAN (or willing to become one). No coercion here. Not a bit. SO much better than those Moslem heathens.

Ritual killing stuns Indian village
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/south/08/06/india.ritual.killing/index.html
Police suspect the victim, Ravinder, was killed by his own uncle who they say practiced Indian black magic, or what is called tantra -- the chilling practice of child sacrifice.

O'Malley offers $55m settlement
http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/221/metro/O_Malley_offers_55m_settlement+.shtml
Moving to end the massive civil litigation surrounding the worst scandal in the US history of the Roman Catholic Church, Boston Archbishop Sean P. O'Malley yesterday made a $55 million settlement offer to 542 people who say they were sexually abused by clergy members.

Suspect claims God told him to kill women - Man feared `devils' were going to kill him
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/139854
A Seattle man charged with slitting his girlfriend's throat and trying to stab her friend believed God told him to do it because the two women were devils in need of eradication, according to court documents.

Dah deviw made mee doo it! Weewy!

Japanese Police Raid Cult Headquarters
http://www.reflector.com/news/content/news/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V5348.AP-Japan-Cult.html
The group has been under close scrutiny by authorities since May, when its all-white caravan of vehicles carrying members dressed head-to-toe in white robes blocked a mountain road in central Japan during a weeklong standoff with police.

Protect those precious bodily fluids.

evildave

12th August 2003, 08:12 PM

More Witch Hunts
http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?ID=IEO20030812072203&Title=This+is+India&rLink=0
PATNA: A Dalit woman and her 18-year-old daughter were paraded naked in a village in Bihar and mercilessly beaten after being accused of practising witchcraft, police officials said.

DA: Murderous Minister Fueled By 'Evil'
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2396935/detail.html
LOS ANGELES -- A minister "fueled" by evil shot his wife and young daughter to death as they slept because they threatened his ambition to become pastor of a "mega-church," a prosecutor told jurors Monday.

High Profile Speakers Coming In For 10 Commandments Rally
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=1399684&nav=0RdEHQs0
The Reverend Jerry Falwell and former Presidential candidate Alan Keyes are scheduled to speak at this weekend's rally in support of Chief Justice Roy Moore's 10 commandments monument.

Minister Ordered Held For Trial
http://kyw.com/Local%20News/local_story_224161146.html
PHILADELPHIA (KYW) A Philadelphia minister was ordered held for trial Tuesday on charges he tried to lure a teenage boy for sex.

evildave

12th August 2003, 08:22 PM

Members of Morning Star church sue the pastor
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=9989124&BRD=988&PAG=461&dept_id=141265&rfi=6
The plaintiffs would like several of Martin's behaviors and actions reversed. Martin, the plaintiffs said, has:

# Turned a $20,000 surplus in the church treasury into a $30,000 debt.

# Made expenditures above $200 "without the vote of the church and the authority to do so."

# Ceased distributing copies of minutes for board of trustees meetings and discouraged dissent.

# Fired longtime secretary Cherrie B. Ramsey and nixed her benefits in violation of a contract between her and the church.

# In a meeting made a comment about plaintiff Moses Fowler, "If I was not the man of God I say that I am, then I would blow his brains out." Martin has threatened Fowler with arrest "if his conduct is not acceptable at church meetings or worship services," the suit says.

# Informed members by letter that they were being put on "probationary status" and removed members for failing to tithe.

Police: Rape suspect used church youth group to meet victims
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/140059
Police say that a Maple Valley man who was charged last month with raping a 13-year-old girl met her and two other victims through a church youth group.

For the two other victims, King County prosecutors last week filed two additional charges against Jonathon Steven Kindle, 19, -- third-degree child molestation and communication with a minor for immoral purposes.

Kindle met all three girls in the youth group at Covington Baptist Church. He and his family had been attending the church for some time. He had also performed some community service at the church for previous sexual offenses.

evildave

13th August 2003, 08:38 PM

Pastor's teenage son accused of molesting kids in church
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?tl=1&display=rednews/2003/08/13/build/local/60-pastor.inc
HELENA — The teenage son of a Helena minister is accused of molesting at least three younger children this summer in the restroom of his father’s church.

Prosecutors say William Hughes, who turned 14 on Tuesday, may have molested other children as well, but some are so young that investigators have not been able to get statements from them.

You can trust your pastor's family, right?

Is Bush getting apocalyptic advice?

http://www.msnbc.com/news/943879.asp?cp1=1
Aug. 13 — Is the Bush administration turning to a televangelist doomsayer for political predictions? Apocalyptic preacher Jack Van Impe is claiming that he was contacted by Condoleezza Rice’s office and the White House Office of Public Liaison for an “outline” of his take on world events.

Oh, looky! Just as I prophesized. The doomsday loving fundy Christians talkin' about getting Jesus back early.

A study trumpeted by the right to support faith-based programs offers little support when looked at closely.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?BRD=1091&dept_id=514778&newsid=9963935&PAG=461&rfi=9

Oh, LOOKY! Another "faith based" initiative which was touted to prove faith heals all turns out to be yet another bald-faced lie.

"Read My Lips"
Like father, like son.

Former Evangelist George Crossley Receives Extra Year Of Probation
http://www.wftv.com/news/2398141/detail.html
SANFORD, Fla. -- A former television evangelist once convicted in a murder-for-hire plot received an additional year of probation after allegedly threatening his co-worker at a Lake Mary pizzeria.

evildave

14th August 2003, 07:59 PM

Preacher pleads guilty to charges of selling church

http://www.dpa.xtn.net/index.php?table=news&template=news.view.subscriber&newsid=102853

A former local preacher pleaded guilty to criminal charges that he sold a Hammer Hill Road church out from under its congregation for $25,000.

News Update: Reverend, wife not yet charged in pot seizure
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/134941_cupdate14.html
Nearly 2 1/2 months after authorities seized 200 marijuana plants from their home, the Rev. Lee Phillips and his wife, Lori, have not been charged.

The couple say cannabis use is a core principle of their Auburn church, The Center for Healing and Spiritual Renewal.

2 bodies dug up in suspected cult killing
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200308/15/200308150339335609900090409041.html

Peterson's defense details Bay cult theory
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1569958,00.html
MODESTO -- Scott Peterson's defense team briefed two forensic experts this week on a satanic cult theory, including paintings and artwork near San Francisco Bay and an experiment showing that the pregnant Laci Peterson's body could have been placed in the water at the art site.

evildave

15th August 2003, 04:20 PM

Church in hot seat on fake jury summons
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/08/15/1060936050333.html
A fake jury summons for the "greatest trial in history" has incensed several Americans who say the church invitation looks far too much like an official order to serve in court.

The document from the First Baptist Church of Colleyville, Texas, invites people to a "unique jury trial" on Saturday and Sunday to determine the existence of God.

Ahh, marketing God through gimmicks again. See how the religious "truth" needs misleading advertising to sell through.

US judge defends 'holy rock'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3154225.stm
A long-running and fiercely contested battle over a large block of stone has intensified in the United States.

The chief justice of the state of Alabama has defied a federal court order to remove a huge slab of granite inscribed with the Ten Commandments from his courthouse, and vowed to call on the Supreme Court on Friday to prevent the order being enforced.

Suit against priest for funeral remarks heads to state court
http://kobtv.com/index.cfm?viewer=storyviewer&id=3643&cat=HOME
The Reverend Scott Mansfield is accused of condemning former Chama Councilman Ben Martinez to hell at Martinez’s funeral.

Martinez’s family sued Mansfield and the Archdiocese of Santa Fe in June.

The lawsuit suggests Mansfield was upset that Martinez had not been to church in the last year of his life, even though he’d been too ill to attend Mass.

evildave

15th August 2003, 07:40 PM

Light Local News
http://www.fresnobee.com/local/story/7291739p-8216886c.html
"He asked God to eliminate, to punish us, to kill us generation after generation," said the young girl's father, Nusoua Vang.

Cha offered the court an explanation. He said the curse wasn't a threat against the victim's family, but aimed at those who wrongfully accused him.

"If I did it, let God punish me," he said. "Since I didn't, whoever accused me I want to be punished throughout their lives."

China Says Falun Gong Took Over Satellite
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-china-falun-gong,0,2141247.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
BEIJING -- Practitioners of the outlawed Falun Gong spiritual movement commandeered China's main television satellite twice this week, the Chinese government said Friday.

Holy Health Hazard
http://www.nbc17.com/news/2409383/detail.html
The Ohio agriculture department has ordered Jenkins to stop distributing the water, which he says has healing properties. The state says tests have shown the water to contain coliform bacteria, which comes from human and animal waste and can cause serious illness.

Cleveland targeted by Jews for Jesus conversion mission
http://www.clevelandjewishnews.com/articles/2003/08/14/news/local/bcover0815.txt
Armed with a budget of $28 million, the missionary organization Jews for Jesus is launching an aggressive campaign beginning this week to convert Jews in Cleveland to Christianity.

c4ts

15th August 2003, 08:00 PM

Holy crap, they hacked a sattellite!! :eek:

evildave

15th August 2003, 08:22 PM

Not so hard. Happened a few times in the U.S. in past years. Nobody's "hacked" the digital ones (as far as I know), but it's probably just a matter of time.

Remember the guy who dressed up as Darth Vader?

The older analog satellites can be "taken over" just by beaming a tighter, more focused transmission at them at the right time. It's probably important to sync up with the frames that the real transmitter is sending, and a few other technical details like that, so you don't have rolling ghosts on the image.

c4ts

15th August 2003, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Not so hard. Happened a few times in the U.S. in past years. Nobody's "hacked" the digital ones (as far as I know), but it's probably just a matter of time.

Remember the guy who dressed up as Darth Vader?

The older analog satellites can be "taken over" just by beaming a tighter, more focused transmission at them at the right time. It's probably important to sync up with the frames that the real transmitter is sending, and a few other technical details like that, so you don't have rolling ghosts on the image.

Yeah, but the fact a religious organization did it with a political message, not just some guy dressed as Darth Vader, is pretty freaky. What if the Scientologists wanted to do something similar in America?

evildave

15th August 2003, 10:18 PM

We'd probably end up with a WACO.

Just imagine if it were a Christian group in China that hijacked the satellite. We'd have fundies pinging off the walls over here about their right to free speech.

Right up until someone hijacked a televangelism satellite. Then we'd have a new holy crusade against anyone owning a transmitter in the USA.

T'ai Chi

16th August 2003, 12:21 AM

I wonder if Evildave is an atheist? Are you?

I'd rather talk about atheism, the engine behind Communism, something which caused more death than any of the things you post repeatedly about.

Not oddly enough, you are silent about that for the most part.

Yahweh

16th August 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
I wonder if Evildave is an atheist? Are you?
I'm a go out on a limb and give a "Yes, he is an atheist... or perhaps a Buddhist".

I'd rather talk about atheism, the engine behind Communism, something which caused more death than any of the things you post repeatedly about.
Communism:
"A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people."

Come on, you know as well as I do that the engine behind Communism was a flawed economic structure which looked good on paper but when practiced ultimately didnt unfold as written. And its also a pretty shallow and poor attempt to try to undermine Atheism by referencing those "Godless Commies".

T'ai Chi

16th August 2003, 12:06 PM

Yahweh,

I could care less about an academic dictionary definition of Communism (just like some atheists don't agree with the dictionary definition of atheist). The facts are that a very specific version of communism took place, that was directly responsible for more deaths than from any of the religions (combined!!) that atheists moan about, that was fueled by atheism.

Oh, here is an interesting reference:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emmett_fields/affirmative_atheism.html

In it, it says:

"It must be admitted that Atheism is the engine and the thrust behind Communism that has allowed it to move forward into the modern world in such a short time."

so apparently it isn't just my opinion, but that of a well-known free-thinker.

You were obviously off-base with your "shallow and poor attempt" comment.

You may want to understand the difference between communism and atheism and Communism and Atheism.

Roadtoad

16th August 2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
Yahweh,

I could care less about an academic dictionary definition of Communism (just like some atheists don't agree with the dictionary definition of atheist). The facts are that a very specific version of communism took place, that was directly responsible for more deaths than from any of the religions (combined!!) that atheists moan about, that was fueled by atheism.

Oh, here is an interesting reference:

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/emmett_fields/affirmative_atheism.html

In it, it says:

"It must be admitted that Atheism is the engine and the thrust behind Communism that has allowed it to move forward into the modern world in such a short time."

so apparently it isn't just my opinion, but that of a well-known free-thinker.

You were obviously off-base with your "shallow and poor attempt" comment.

You may want to understand the difference between communism and atheism and Communism and Atheism.

T'ai Chi:

A few things I should mention here:

First, EvilDave is an atheist, but that does not make him an enemy. He's going to challenge you on what you believe, and more importantly, WHY you choose to believe it. Rather than being the act of an enemy, those are the kind actions of a friend. So before you begin to open up a broadside on the man, I would strongly recommend you hold back, and get to know what it is that he's about. If he's opened up on "Ugly Religion," know that there's a broader purpose to his actions, and he's not just slamming Christians, Jews, Muslims, and the like simply for the sake of slamming them. He's trying to provoke people into action and into accepting responsibility for what they claim they believe. If you're not going to be accountable for your actions, what value are your beliefs?

I've never had occasion to view EvilDave as anyone but a friend on this board. We disagree, but I would say that's an advantage.

Second, I would easily say the same thing about Yahweh. True, Communism was an atheistic system of government, but at it's core, it was, as Yahweh pointed out, an Economic system, and one which could not be sustained except for the application of extreme force. That it lasted as long as it did was more of a testament to the value of the Black Market, and less to do with matters of faith.

Yes, the Communists killed millions. (Eight million in the Ukraine alone, under Stalin.) But bear in mind, you're talking about a relatively short period of time, (80-90 years), while sadly, we Christians have killed in Christ's name for over 2000. Who's got the better record, T'ai? And while, as Keith Green pointed out, Jesus is not the one to blame, you've got to wonder that anyone chooses to believe at all, given that many of the conversions we've brought about have come through either terror, or violence.

You can choose to play word games if you want, but I can tell you right now, that's going to get you nowhere with this crowd. If anything, you can almost count on getting slammed time and again. You're always going to be welcome to post here, and you'll be welcomed as a friend when you do, but not if you come in with guns blazing. Just a suggestion.

T'ai Chi

16th August 2003, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by Roadtoad

First, EvilDave is an atheist, but that does not make him an enemy. He's going to challenge you on what you believe, and more importantly, WHY you choose to believe it.

Yes, the Communists killed millions. (Eight million in the Ukraine alone, under Stalin.) But bear in mind, you're talking about a relatively short period of time, (80-90 years), while sadly, we Christians have killed in Christ's name for over 2000. Who's got the better record, T'ai? And while, as Keith Green pointed out, Jesus is not the one to blame, you've got to wonder that anyone chooses to believe at all, given that many of the conversions we've brought about have come through either terror, or violence.

I understand that EvilDave is not an enemy (even if "evil" is in his name). I don't think anyone online here is an "enemy".

"we Christians", I'm not Christian btw.

Everyone kills, irrespective of belief/non-belief. If EvilDave wants to post about religious people killing, etc., fine. He just can't expect people to not point out the obvious that atheistic Communism has killed more than all religious combined.

Roadtoad

16th August 2003, 08:04 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
"we Christians", I'm not Christian btw.

So I gathered. But there are Christians who post on this board. Some have their heads up their @$$es.

Yahweh

16th August 2003, 09:10 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
He just can't expect people to not point out the obvious that atheistic Communism has killed more than all religious combined.
Sorry, I honestly dont know much about the history of Communism, but did those Communists kill in the name of religion (in the context that atheism, in this example, is interpreted as religion), or was it for political reasons.

evildave

16th August 2003, 09:16 PM

Posting about killing? Not all of them. Relatively few of them, actually.

There are many reasons for killing. For instance, in Africa, many of the killings may not be motivated directly by religion. Religion is just a handy tool to get people to start killing and keep killing.

Certainly communists didn't generally kill people just for being religious (though the Soviets had a few Jewish purges); they killed people because the state was a totalitarian regime that wouldn't tolerate people disagreeing with them. To state that some attribute of communism besides their intolerance for dissent caused them to kill is seriously losing focus with reality...

But that's something some religious people are awfully good at. Focusing on something like "God's will" instead of mundane causes and effects.

If you want to make this a discussion of nationalism, then consider it is my opinion that removing god from government helped to make the U.S. a successful endeavor. People could cooperate and disagree without it being "He's a Baptist, and I'm a Catholic, so THAT is why he's wrong!"

It wasn't "God" that made men free of tyranny. God was the supreme tool of tyranny. All kings of the time claimed to hae a divine right to power.

It was men who believed in accountability to the people for government's actions, working for this ideal.

Today we have so many demanding stridently that we put God back. I would just like to point out that putting gods back into government is exactly making government unaccountable for its actions.

It's not our actions and policies that caused a disaster: it's GOD's will. That many people think like this in this country is apalling.

Be as religious as you like. Even hate people for being different, if that's what suits you. It's not like I can convince you to be different.

Just keep it in the walls of your own church.

Don't make national policy of it.

Roadtoad

16th August 2003, 09:50 PM

Originally posted by evildave
It's not our actions and policies that caused a disaster: it's GOD's will. That many people think like this in this country is apalling.

Be as religious as you like. Even hate people for being different, if that's what suits you. It's not like I can convince you to be different.

Just keep it in the walls of your own church.

Don't make national policy of it.

Agreed. From a Christian perspective, I can't help but agree...

T'ai Chi

16th August 2003, 10:10 PM

Communism, the engine of which was atheism, killed more than all religions COMBINED.

Certainly it is irrationality that can lead to killing, and atheists can be just as irrationality as the religious, and maybe even more so if they don't admit it.

evildave

16th August 2003, 10:44 PM

Alas, it's just another "atheists are communists" troll.

Oh well, back to my patient response: "If you want to believe all atheists are communists, then I can be equally correct in assuming theists are all just one cool aid short of a Jonestown."

or

"If you want to believe all atheists are communists, then I can be equally correct in assuming all theists are part of the Spanish Inquisition."

Back to our regular programming, briefly interrupted in the hope we weren't communicating with a propaganda dunce.

Abuse victim blasts church
http://www.themercury.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,6978109%255E3462,00.html
A TASMANIAN sex-abuse victim has broken his silence about his abuse at the hands of two Anglican priests 20 years ago and subsequent treatment by the church "which puts its rules before people".

Public funds to pay for work at A.C. church
http://www.pressofatlanticcity.com/news/atlantic/081603SHILOH_AUG16.html
ATLANTIC CITY - In a move that seems to flout the principle of separation of church and state, Mayor Lorenzo Langford's administration plans to spend between $24,000 and $34,000 in public money for improvements outside a new church that has run into financial troubles during construction.

Langford approved the plan after an appeal from Shiloh Baptist Church, which is building a new church at 701 Atlantic Ave., between Delaware and New Jersey avenues.

FBI Probes Witch's Claim Minister Trying To Ruin Her
Self-Proclaimed Witch: Reverend Organized Effort To Force Her Out Of Area
http://www.local6.com/news/2380225/detail.html
FORT WORTH, Texas -- A self-proclaimed witch in the eastern Hill Country is accusing a Christian pastor of leading a harassment campaign aimed at ruining her business and driving her out of the region.

Reverend arrested for desecrating Ganesh idol
http://www.gunaah.com/drafts/article.php3?id=1357&name=SCOOPS&sid=14
The Gujarat police have arrested Reverend Suresh Thaker who runs the Grace Ministry of India, an orphanage at Talala in Gir region for desecrating the idol of ‘Lord Ganesha’.

The priest threw the statue of the deity, which belonged to a former employee, identified as Gopal Patel, who filed a complaint against the Reverend. The priest would be produced before a local court on Tuesday for remand, he added.

T'ai Chi

16th August 2003, 10:53 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Alas, it's just another "atheists are communists" troll.

I enjoy the dismissive tone, I really do. It makes me feel warm and tingly all up in here.

I said that atheism was the engine of Communism. I also posted a link to an Infidels.org page that showed a free-thinker who wrote that also. I guess you can call him a troll or something if you don't want to face the highly improbable idea that there are intelligent people who think that, and that there is plenty of evidence for that.

Facts are, I never ever said that "all" atheists are communists, or that all communists are atheists etc etc or whatever YOU want to troll with. So quit that noise G.

By all means, please continue posting articles about religious abuse, etc. Just be sure to keep in mind that atheism was the engine behind Communism, and that the death-toll from that is more than from all religions COMBINED.

I, for one, enjoy how people (mostly atheists) freak when one brings up these facts about Communism. They assume that you aren't an atheist, etc. That isn't very rational.

Yahweh

17th August 2003, 01:50 AM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
I enjoy the dismissive tone, I really do. It makes me feel warm and tingly all up in here.
He's evildave for good reason.

I said that atheism was the engine of Communism. I also posted a link to an Infidels.org page that showed a free-thinker who wrote that also. I guess you can call him a troll or something if you don't want to face the highly improbable idea that there are intelligent people who think that, and that there is plenty of evidence for that.

Facts are, I never ever said that "all" atheists are communists, or that all communists are atheists etc etc or whatever YOU want to troll with. So quit that noise G.

By all means, please continue posting articles about religious abuse, etc. Just be sure to keep in mind that atheism was the engine behind Communism, and that the death-toll from that is more than from all religions COMBINED.
Well, if you like to play games like that, I'd like to tell you a story, a friendly story. Once upon a time, a group of people (call them Pilgrims if you want) who came to the New Land because they desired religious freedom. A whole mess of stuff happened, and today, from those Pilgrims developed into the country of America. America (a secular nation) still encourages religous freedom (with the stipulation that religious beliefs will never be imposed or denied in our government, schools, etc.). Secularism, Democracy, and freedom are the engine that run our country today.

And about your whole "Atheism is the engine of Communism" bit, what exactly do you mean? Would you care to cite a few examples (something that is not a short vague quote from Infidels.org)?

Are you suggesting that Communism is about religious faith?

Are you suggesting Atheists (or Communists) are evil?

Just a suggestion from Philosopher Yahweh, if you want to attack or criticize a belief, you should have a bit more than a crappy ill-founded one-liner about the evils of Communism. Philosopher Yahweh suggests revising your system of analyzing other's reasoning.

I read the article on Infidels.org, it was an interesting read.

I, for one, enjoy how people (mostly atheists) freak when one brings up these facts about Communism. They assume that you aren't an atheist, etc. That isn't very rational.
Talk to the Philosopher about rationalism.

The Philosopher wants to make a quick reference to ethics real quick, apparently one of your motives for using your "Atheism is the engine of Communism" bit is because you "enjoy how people (mostly atheists) freak out". I'm not criticizing your beliefs, I'm criticizing your character when I say "how can you take pleasure at the expense of others". Philosopher Yahweh considers behavior like to be questionable and immoral. Its made especially disheartening how you target Atheists.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 09:02 AM

"And about your whole "Atheism is the engine of Communism" bit, what exactly do you mean? Would you care to cite a few examples (something that is not a short vague quote from Infidels.org)?"

It wasn't a short vague quote. I provided the link, and if you read it, great.

"Its made especially disheartening how you target Atheists."

lol. The history is something that any rational person cannot avoid recognizing.

evildave

17th August 2003, 09:13 AM

Oh, you found A particular "freethinker" who believes atheism was the engine of communism, rather than expoloiting economic differences between social classes and fomenting hatred based on it? Gosh, I guess that's why it was getting into all of those "God Hating" Latin American countries with predominant Roman Catholic populations. Not to mention all of those African nations with predominant R.C. and Islamic populations. Yeah, it must be way easier to get someone to turn on their own church than to get someone who possesses nothing and tell him his life will be better if he takes it all from those "bastards" who own everything.

Gosh, I'd better find some Good Christian assumptions to paint with a broad brush as well.

Here we have the Christian Identity Movement. I guess they're representitive of all Christians, because they're its identity?

http://www.kingidentity.com/doctrine.htm
WE BELIEVE God chose unto Himself a special race of people that are above all people upon the face of the earth (Deut. 7:6; Amos 3:2). These children of Abraham through the called-out seedline of Isaac and Jacob (Psalm 105:6; Rom. 9:7) were to be a blessing to all the families of the earth who bless them and a cursing to those that curse them (Gen. 12.3). The descendants of the twelve sons of a Jacob, called "Israel", were married to God (Isa. 54:5), have not been cast away (Rom. 11:1-2), have been given the adoption, glory, covenants, law, service of God, and promises; are the ones to whom the messiah came (Rom. 9:4-5) electing out of all twelve tribes those who inherit the Kingdom of God (Rev. 7:4, 21:12).

http://www.religioustolerance.org/cr_ident.htm

Therefore, due to the opinions of these racist retards, all Christians must be bigots, and because we're talking about religion in general, all religions are at their root racist? Must be true by Tai Chi's standards of "reasoning".... But of course, I'm dismissive of that for a reason.

I'm happy for Tai Chi, that he feels "all tingly". The oddest things turn some people's cranks. In this case, it appears he loves to be "dismissed".

OK, go away and start up your own "Atheism Is What Makes Communism Work" topic. You're sure to have lots of participants. Maybe billiefan and jedi will join in.

I hope that has you all moist. Far be it for me to deny someone their jollies.

Priest's wife charged in church shooting
http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/news/6552763.htm

ROCHESTER, Minn. - The wife of a priest was charged in a drive-by shooting at her own church. Patricia Kasemeotes, 45, is accused of taking $31,500 in church funds last year and later firing shots at Rochester's Greek Orthodox Church while people were inside.

Kasemeotes allegedly took blank checks from a church account checkbook and then forged a signature to obtain $31,500, which she deposited in a personal account.

According to a criminal complaint, Kasemeotes had been having an affair with a church volunteer, who signed funds for the church account. He called police in August 2002 when he noticed blank checks and money missing.

Ahh, more MORAL SUPERIORITY.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 11:07 AM

If this topic wasn't a thorn in your side, you'd just ignore it. But, atheism, the engine of Communism, killed more people than all religions combined, unfortunately. That isn't exactly good PR.

With that said, I'm still an atheist. We just have to be careful not to fall into the traps of ideology that people did in the past.

Yeah, the religious have killed a lot too. We have to avoid those mistakes too.

"OK, go away and start up your own "Atheism Is What Makes Communism Work" topic."

This is a discussion board free to anyone to post their comments on. Press "ignore", and please quit posing as some board hall monitor. You post your opinions, I can post mine. Ain't that somethin'.

Yahzi

17th August 2003, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
But, atheism, the engine of Communism, killed more people than all religions combined, unfortunately. That isn't exactly good PR.
I was going to say atheism was not the engine of communism, but then I decided that there was a way in which it could be considered that. Atheism freed the progressives to believe that moral progress was possible, that it would not come from outside, and that humans were responsible for their own conditions.

Communism was merely one instance of this ideal of progressiveness, one that failed miserably.

In the interests of debate, I am interpreting T'ai Chi's comment in the most meaningful way I can.

However, even given that, T'ai Chi seems to be implying that atheism not only enabled communism, but was in fact the principle cause of its failure, and therefore is responsible for its many deaths. This is unwarranted, and completely unlike the cases where people were killed for religious reasons. Not killed by a religious system which enabled their killing, but for actual direct immediate religious reasons. Did the communists kill people for atheist reasons?

Atheism was not the failed element of communism that resulted in the deaths of millions. The Daliectic, a kind of gigantic false dichotomy, combined with the insane assertion that man is born a blank slate and all society and even biology are merely arbitrary social constructions, are the flaws that allowed Communism to become mere tyranny. Post-modern thinking was the flaw, not atheism. Atheism merely opened the gate to thinking you could do better than a Pope.

So, even if I give Tai Chi the best possible interpretation, he's still wrong.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 12:30 PM

"Communism was merely one instance of this ideal of progressiveness, one that failed miserably."

I agree with that, although I wouldn't say that killing people and establishing authoritarian regimes was progressive.

nk slate and all society and even biology are merely arbitrary social constructions, are the flaws that allowed Communism to become mere tyranny. Post-modern thinking was the flaw, not atheism. Atheism merely opened the gate to thinking you could do better than a Pope.

"So, even if I give Tai Chi the best possible interpretation, he's still wrong."

It is called an 'opinion', and there are other people who share it.

Yahzi

17th August 2003, 12:51 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
"It is called an 'opinion', and there are other people who share it.
So it's just your opinion, without any facts or logic to support it.

I shall now proceed to give your comments all the consideration they deserve. There, that was easy.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 12:55 PM

Yeah, you're doing a superb job of ignoring it.

So, what was that body count again?

Marc

17th August 2003, 01:35 PM

Body count? it's pretty high (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5195/victims.html)

Look like it is in the hundreds of millions. The 30 Years war alone killed off about 11 million. Now this is just Christians, if you include other religions the numbers only increase.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 03:58 PM

heh,

The Soviet Union (Lenin, Stalin), communist China and Nationalist China each easily killed that amount and more. Under Stalin there were EASILY many times your puny numbers. Under Mao, there were even more.

Then add Pol Pot, then add some smaller players. Your numbers absolutely PALE in comparison to these.

Flaherty

17th August 2003, 05:14 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
Everyone kills, irrespective of belief/non-belief. If EvilDave wants to post about religious people killing, etc., fine. He just can't expect people to not point out the obvious that atheistic Communism has killed more than all religious combined. [/B]

Stalin did not kill to promote atheism. He never woke up one day and said, "I think I'll kill some religious people today to advance the cause of atheism." Stalin killed in the name of acquiring, consolidating, and protecting his power. Atheism had nothing to do with it. He'd have killed atheists had they been in his way.

But if you want to play this game using your rules, then I would remind you that the Germans, almost all of whom were Catholics or Lutherans, killed millions during WW2. Hitler himself professed his Christianity on many occasions. He claimed his genocide was God's work.

evildave

17th August 2003, 10:01 PM

Tai Chi apparently supports the Lord's Resistance Army.

Obviously (using his illogic) if he supports religion, he supports the kidnapping of young children to be turned into murdering battle slaves. Something a lot of Africa is presently involved in. All the rage, really.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews/content_objectid=13294482_method=full_siteid=50143 _headline=-CHILD%2DCANNIBAL%2DKILLERS%2DOF%2DTHE%2DCONGO-name_page.html

After all, all they want is to have the Ten Commandments be the basis of their government. At all costs.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200308120795.html
http://allafrica.com/stories/200308110286.html
http://allafrica.com/stories/200308040521.html

Religion is all good? I think not. Just something to think about when you see a bunch of "Ten Commandments" bozos having another tantrum over trying to "Get more God" into the government.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Tai Chi apparently supports the Lord's Resistance Army.

Obviously (using his illogic) if he supports religion,...

So in one breath I am supporting a religious thing, and in the other breath, you are not sure if I support religion. Uh huh.

Religion is all good? I think not. Just something to think about when you see a bunch of "Ten Commandments" bozos having another tantrum over trying to "Get more God" into the government.

Um strawman. I never said it was "all good", in fact I am the first person to admit that religion isn't all good. I also am the first person to admit that non-religion isn't all good, and science isn't all good.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Flaherty

Stalin did not kill to promote atheism. He never woke up one day and said, "I think I'll kill some religious people today to advance the cause of atheism." Stalin killed in the name of acquiring, consolidating, and protecting his power. Atheism had nothing to do with it. He'd have killed atheists had they been in his way.

That is some fine speculation there.

Do you not understand that killing is killing? If atheism was the engine of Communism, then it doesn't matter one speck if he never woke up and said blah blah blah.

Hitler himself professed his Christianity on many occasions. He claimed his genocide was God's work.

Yeah, and at the same time, things like survival of the fittest and social Darwinism and eugenics were all the rage. Perhaps he was a smidge inspired by that too. He wanted to create the most perfect evolved race.

evildave

17th August 2003, 10:43 PM

I must qualify all statements about your beliefs with words like "if", since you seem loath to reveal your actual personal beliefs. This leads me to believe you're afraid to tell us what you actually believe in, or possibly you just don't believe in anything and want to jerk us all off for a while. Your reading comprehension skills are appalling, and your posts seem to be simply repeating the same thing like a mantra.

Of course I'm not the first person to be shocked at being compared to a communist, but using your very own standards, Tai Chi, you obviously support the actions of the LRA. Every one of them. Especially the one where the leader makes children murder other children. You must *love* that. I can only LEAP to such conclusions, since you don't appear to be able to share any of your own opinions, other than repeating "duh, atheists are communists".

So, if you want to carry on insulting me with comparisons to communists of the past, I can come up with truly awful things, AND VERY CURRENT things, that religion is doing that you "obviously" support.

I have already invited you once to start your own topic and stop spamming this one with your repetitive and offensive "communism" drool.

This is the second invitation.

T'ai Chi

17th August 2003, 10:55 PM

Originally posted by evildave
This leads me to believe you're afraid to tell us what you actually believe in, or possibly you just don't believe in anything and want to jerk us all off for a while.

You can imagine anything you want. I've already stated that I am a philosophical Taoist and atheist. Now, please critique MY reading skills ... ;)

Especially the one where the leader makes children murder other children. You must *love* that.

Now you're acting all silly and stuff.

So, if you want to carry on insulting me with

heh, sure, I never said anything specifically about you, yet you said I love when someone murders children? That's pretty sick.

I can come up with truly awful things, AND VERY CURRENT things, that religion is doing that you "obviously" support.

Yeah, we all know you are religious with your mission.

Hey, come up with some similar articles about Taoism. That is a challenge.

I have already invited you once to start your own topic and stop spamming this one with your repetitive and offensive "communism" drool.

You spam entire the entire religion and philosophy forum with your repetitive and offensive posts. So please, get over yourself.

For the first and last time, I invite you to learn how to use the ignore feature.

evildave

18th August 2003, 12:05 AM

This is the first time you've mentioned your "Philosophical Taoism" in this topic.

If you mentioned 'Taoism' or 'Taoist' elsewhere, you didn't mention it here. I went ahead and double-checked. I don't read every single topic in this forum. I have other things to do with my time.

So, was it was the mention of Falun Gong that got you going?

http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_north/20030817ncoverside0817p5.asp

"... influenced by Buddhism and Taoism."

Or was it the part where I speculate on what the U.S. Christians would do if they were Christians in China, instead.

Almost immediately afterwards, we get the "Commy" flames. To tell the truth, I've had it "up to here", with that particular topic. If not Jedi Knight's tired tirades, then we get the next guy in line. When someone starts to liken atheists with communists for the third post in a row, I start to glaze over.

So you are just yanking chains.

Fine.

At least you're that honest.

Time to go to bed. I want to get up and go to work in the morning.

T'ai Chi

18th August 2003, 10:39 AM

So, was it was the mention of Falun Gong that got you going?

http://www.post-gazette.com/neigh_north/20030817ncoverside0817p5.asp

"... influenced by Buddhism and Taoism."

That the best you can find?

Just about everything in China is influenced by Buddhism and Taoism and Confucianism and...

When someone starts to liken atheists with communists for the third post in a row, I start to glaze over.

That's great evildave. Keep up with your mission. plonk

Brown

18th August 2003, 11:01 AM

Arguably, the following story from the Washington Post (registration may be required) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A7035-2003Aug17.html) doesn't qualify as "ugly religion," but what the hey.The pastor of National City Christian Church publicly sought forgiveness yesterday from his congregants for "borrowing liberally" from sermons penned by other religious leaders and for saying that those who raised questions about his preaching had a vendetta against him.
...
His unauthorized use of other pastors' sermons was discovered when a congregant -- who has since resigned her membership -- typed the title of one of Jackson's June sermons into an Internet search engine. She found it was virtually a verbatim copy of a sermon posted on the Web site of the Rev. Thomas K. Tewell, pastor of Fifth Avenue Presbyterian Church in New York City.
...
In his apology, Jackson said he had "misrepresented the facts" three weeks ago, when he first addressed the congregation about the issue.
At that time, he said he had gotten permission from Tewell after he had used Tewell's sermons. In truth, Jackson had only left messages for Tewell at his office. ["I was trying to put this behind me quickly, but I was wrong," Jackson said. "There is no excuse for saying I had talked to him when I had not done so."]I understand it is not unusual for ministers, who are looking for ideas for the weekly message, to refer to sermons delivered by others and to "borrow" some of the ideas. In this case, however, the clergyman in question did more than that. He took the sermon and passed it off as his own.

Speakers other than ministers have been "caught" doing this in the past.

Roadtoad

18th August 2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Religion is all good? I think not. Just something to think about when you see a bunch of "Ten Commandments" bozos having another tantrum over trying to "Get more God" into the government.

Good God, I hope we don't go that route! Considering the example that's being set by the American Church these days, do you really want these people running things? Believe me, this is not the sort of government I want running things.

If that's what we're headed for, I'm leaving town.

c4ts

18th August 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by Marc
Body count? it's pretty high (http://www.geocities.com/Athens/5195/victims.html)

Look like it is in the hundreds of millions. The 30 Years war alone killed off about 11 million. Now this is just Christians, if you include other religions the numbers only increase.

THEY FORGOT THE FRIKKIN' HOLOCAUST! Oh, here it is.

evildave

18th August 2003, 09:31 PM

I dunno. It seems like the "Authorized Word O' God" (TM) shouldn't be copyrighted by mere humans. Does his congregation show up ONLY to hear original material authored by the minister, or does he occasionally read from that Bible book of his?

Then again, seeing what a state copyright/patent laws are in, it's only a matter of time before churches start suing each other for using the "wrong" bits and pieces from each other's sacred junk.

T'ai Chi: Well, I have to work within the constraints of ACTUAL current events here, and I can't tap into a magical force to make anything happen in the name of Taoism. Give it time, or simply tell me what has set you off. I'm insensitive that way. Maybe you feel excluded.

Scantily clad ‘offerings’ at stage shows for Hungry Ghost Festival
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2003/8/15/nation/6063170&sec=nation
http://thestar.com.my/news/archives/story.asp?ppath=\2003\8\14&file=/2003/8/14/nation/6052954&sec=nation

Not that bad, in my opinion. We probably need more Taoist representation by scantily clad women performing in month-long festivals over here! Every month, if they like. I'm easy.

MOUNT OLIVE TWP. - Vandalism at the Church of the Mystic Light is nothing new but its pastor hold no malice toward the perpetrators.
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10014169&BRD=1918&PAG=461&dept_id=506840&rfi=6

Man Crushed at PA Church
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/08182003_nw_churchcrush.html
FRANKLIN, PA-August 18, 2003 — A man who was injured last week when he was trapped beneath a 700-pound block of concrete has died.

Catholic priest charged with theft of $400,000 in church money
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-818priest,1,6168825.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
GREEN COVE SPRINGS -- A Catholic priest has been arrested on charges he took more than $400,000 from his former parish and sent the money out of the United States for his own use.

Habitat For Humanity House Condemned
http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=1402995

Very nice.

Raelians Help Gays, Lesbians Leave Catholic Church
Each year, Brazil's Catholic Church is losing millions of "faithfuls" because they prefer religions that are more suitable to their way of life. The Raelian Movement of Brazil commits to increase this bleeding by revealing one of the Church's best kept secret: all is required to officially get out is to fill out an Apostasy form and send it to your diocese.

Church Minister Guilty of Rape
http://allafrica.com/stories/200308181025.html
A church minister found guilty of rape is to be sentenced today (subs: Tues) in the Thohoyandou circuit of the High Court.

evildave

19th August 2003, 07:35 PM

Priest Accused of Sending Church Funds to Mistress
http://www.wtev.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=E8C4092F-DB44-4F7D-9A95-27AAFA5F4DB4

The real reason for tithing.

Church linked to terrorists: FCFM
http://www.fijilive.com/news/show/news/2003/08/20/20y.html
The Methodist Church should be investigated by the Police Force for allowing terrorist groups to operate from within its ranks, says the Fiji Citizens Freedom Movement.

NHC Jail to be sold to church
http://www.wect.com/Global/story.asp?S=1407349&nav=2gQcHWyr
[quote]But supporters of the sale say it would cost the county two-million dollars just to renovate the jail for something else, and the offer from neighboring First Baptist Church was too good to turn down.[quote]

Ooh! Jail cells for the homeless! Talk about a captive audience....

Church janitor claims he was scapegoated because of antigay sermon
http://www.advocate.com/new_news.asp?ID=9621&sd=08/20/03

Yahweh

19th August 2003, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by T'ai Chi
That is some fine speculation there.

Do you not understand that killing is killing? If atheism was the engine of Communism, then it doesn't matter one speck if he never woke up and said blah blah blah.
Perhaps you are missing the point, if Communists kill, they dont kill in the name of religion. You are stating an ill-founded and unreasonable opinion as a fact which presents itself to look a little like "atheists are immoral". Not to mention, you arguement of "atheism is the engine of communism" is based on neither reason nor logic nor fact, it is an arguement who's influence is purely emotional appeal, sorry, that doesnt fair for a very strong (or credible) arguement. Try harder (or stop trying all together).

If you are trying to say atheism is irrational because they kill people, sorry, that doesnt invalidate the belief.

If you are trying to say atheists are immoral, that is a gross misjudgedment.

If you are trying to say communists are evil, you have to remember that atheism does not make communism evil.

Do you know what the engine of communism is? It is the same engine for Democracy, Democratic Repubics, Parlimentary, and all other forms of government, making a country thrive. But of course, for people like Pol Pot, he'll use his elevated power for his benefit (the motivation is power, not atheism). Its my opinion that a guy like Ronald Regan (my all-time favorite president) could make communism "work" as well as any other form of government (and he wont resort to killing all those innocent people blah blah blah).

Yeah, and at the same time, things like survival of the fittest and social Darwinism and eugenics were all the rage. Perhaps he was a smidge inspired by that too. He wanted to create the most perfect evolved race.
Therefore atheists are evil... Do you think people killed others in the name of Darwin to create the perfect race (if you dont want to embarrass yourself and appear stupid, dont say "yes")?

Ok now, lets be adults, quit being a d*ck.

evildave

20th August 2003, 08:48 PM

State Officials Get Threatening Letters Over Hill Execution
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/florida/MGAW7ERILJD.html
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (AP) - State agents are investigating threatening letters and bullets sent to Attorney General Charlie Crist and two state prison officials concerning the upcoming execution of Paul Hill, who murdered a doctor and escort outside a Pensacola abortion clinic.

Ellis: Islam filling void left by the church
http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=16523
RIDGECREST, N.C. (BP)--Islam is rising in America, not because of its strength, but because of the retreat of the church, and if the religion founded by Muhammad 1,400 years ago continues to grow at its current rate, there will be more Muslims than Christians in every major U.S. city by 2020.

The observations were voiced by Islam expert Carl Ellis during the Aug. 15-17 National Conference on Islam cosponsored by LifeWay Christian Resources and the North American Mission Board's interfaith evangelism team at LifeWay's Ridgecrest (N.C.) Conference Center.

Oooh! I'm a shakin' in my boots!

Indecency Charge Dropped Against Terre Haute Priest
http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=1410236
(Terre Haute-AP) -- Prosecutors will drop a public indecency charge against a Terre Haute priest if he avoids interstate rest stops in Indiana and Illinois for a year.

Minister's sex abuse trail begins
http://www.wtnh.com/Global/story.asp?S=1407439&nav=3YeXHX44
The 39-year-old Farley is an associate minister at Messiah Baptist Church here. The assaults allegedly took place while he was youth pastor at the Beacon Hill Evangelist Free Church in Monroe.

You know, browsing the news like this, I find almost as many Minister/Reverend related perversion cases from other Christian denominations as Catholics.

Vicar on child porn charges
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/3160659.stm
Dyfed-Powys Police say he has been charged with three counts of possessing indecent images of children and two of making indecent images of children.

Yahweh

20th August 2003, 11:58 PM

evildave

21st August 2003, 10:10 PM

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of American people.

For instance:

Judge rejects JP loser's claim of voting by illegal entrants
http://www.azstarnet.com/star/wed/30820ILLEGALVOTERS2fmst2fjmd.html
At a hearing Tuesday, Novoa Benson said she was "a prophet of God" on a mission to "take back the sovereignty of our nation."

She quoted the Bible and spoke of fears she would be killed by the "Democratic machine" in Douglas.

However, she was unable to cite a legal basis for voiding election results and purging voter rolls in Cochise County, Conlogue said.

evildave

22nd August 2003, 10:18 PM

Habitat home gone bad catches fire
http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/3/004411-5083-021.html
"She is a good Christian girl and a good neighbor," Hall said Thursday afternoon. "She is a wonderful lady that always helps people out. This is really hard to believe."

Yahweh

22nd August 2003, 10:22 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Habitat home gone bad catches fire
http://www.thestarpress.com/articles/3/004411-5083-021.html
"She is a good Christian girl and a good neighbor," Hall said Thursday afternoon. "She is a wonderful lady that always helps people out. This is really hard to believe."
God is omnibenvolent?
I think not...

... or perhaps there is no god...
... or karma...

"Be more openminded, Yahweh"
Yeah, well you can play a game of hide and go f*ck yourself, maybe I'll consider being more openminded later.

Some Friggin Guy

22nd August 2003, 10:37 PM

Yeah, well you can play a game of hide and go f*ck yourself

This is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.

Yahweh, tell the truth...

Are you Dennis Miller?

Yahweh

22nd August 2003, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by Some Friggin Guy

This is one of the funniest things I have read in a long time.

Yahweh, tell the truth...

Are you Dennis Miller?
Great googlie mooglie! My identity has been revealed!

Sorry, I'm not Dennis Miller... George Calin? Sorry, probably not George Carlin either.

Roadtoad

23rd August 2003, 03:33 PM

I can't say I feel sorry for the SOB...

BOSTON - Former priest John Geoghan, a convicted child molester who became a central figure in the Catholic church's sex abuse scandal, died Saturday after another inmate attacked him in prison, a state corrections spokeswoman said.

Geoghan was injured in an incident with another inmate about noon and died shortly after being taken to Leominster Hospital, said Department Of Correction spokeswoman Kelly Nantel.

The incident happened just after lunchtime, Nantel said. Geoghan was being held in protective custody to shield him from the general prison population, but he still had some contact with other inmates, Nantel said.

The other inmate was being held in isolation and the incident is under investigation, she said. She declined to give further details.

In civil lawsuits, more than 130 people have claimed Geoghan sexually abused them as children during his three decades as a priest at Boston-area parishes. He was convicted last year of indecent assault and battery for fondling a 10-year-old boy at a swimming pool.

Mitchell Garabedian, an attorney for many Geoghan victims, said he was "surprised and shocked" by Geoghan's death.

"Many of my clients would have rather seen Father Geoghan serve out his time in jail and endure the rigors of further criminal trials, so that his pedophile acts could have been exposed further," he said.

The church abuse scandal, which has had repercussions worldwide, broke in early 2002 with revelations that the Boston Archdiocese had shuttled Geoghan from parish to parish despite warnings about his behavior.

The scandal mushroomed after a judge ordered the release of archdiocese files involving dozens of priests, showing repeated examples of the archdiocese shipping priests to different parishes when allegations arose.

Soon dioceses and bishops across the country came under scrutiny for their handling of abuse allegations over the years, with the church tainted by scandal in many states. With the public outcry reaching a new crescendo, the bishops adopted a toughened policy against sex abuse and more than 325 priests of the roughly 46,000 American clergy were either dismissed or resigned from their duties in the year after the Geoghan case.

David Clohessy, national director of the Chicago-based Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests, said what made Geoghan's case more "than just a single case about a single predator" was that it revealed the corruption in the church.

"In many respects, Geoghan is not the pivotal figure, it's the people who he wounded and still came forward and the bishops who enabled him but were finally exposed," he said.

Geoghan was ousted from the priesthood in 1998 at the urging of Cardinal Bernard Law. The Geoghan case was one of several that led to Law resigning in December over his mishandling of abuse cases.

Rev. Christopher Coyne, a spokesman for the Archdiocese of Boston, offered prayers for Geoghan's family.

"Upon hearing the news of the tragic death of John Geoghan, the Archdiocese of Boston offers prayer for the repose of John's soul, and extends its prayers in consolation to his beloved sister, Kathy, at this time of personal loss," he said.

Geoghan was convicted in January 2002 for grabbing the buttocks of a 10-year-old boy in 1991 in the first of three criminal cases against him. He was sentenced to nine to 10 years in prison.

In September 2002, the archdiocese settled with 86 Geoghan victims for $10 million, after pulling out of an earlier settlement of about $30 million.

One of those victims, Ralph DelVecchio, said Geoghan deserved prison but didn't deserve to be killed.

"I wouldn't say he deserved to die, you know?" DelVecchio said. "He was in jail — that's where I believed he should be."

DelVecchio said he didn't wish ill on Geoghan.

"It's over with," he said.

Well, now it is. That's for damn sure...

evildave

23rd August 2003, 06:47 PM

Died in prison a bit like Jeffrey Dahmer.

Yahweh

23rd August 2003, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Roadtoad
I can't say I feel sorry for the SOB...

BOSTON - Former priest John Geoghan, a convicted child molester who became a central figure in the Catholic church's sex abuse scandal, died Saturday after another inmate attacked him in prison, a state corrections spokeswoman said.
The inmates who are child molestors have it the worst in prison. Most of the inmates have children themselves, and sexually abusing a child is far more disgusting than stealing a car or even killing a person for that matter. 90% of all prison beatings take place in the bathrooms, at the moment I cant remember how many of those beaten prisoners are child molestors, but they make up the highest percentage of prisoner cruelty complaints.

evildave

23rd August 2003, 09:33 PM

11 Killed In Ethnic Violence In N. Iraq
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37367-2003Aug23.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3176965.stm
TUZ KHURMATU, Iraq, Aug. 23 -- An ethnic feud over a religious shrine in this dusty town north of Baghdad escalated into riots in which eight people were killed here Friday and three today in Kirkuk, 50 miles north.

India's Mosque-Temple Dispute Drags On
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/ap/ap_story.html/Intl/AP.V2412.AP-Mosque-Versus-T.html
At stake is a plot of land in Ayodhya, a Hindu holy city 310 miles southeast of New Delhi. The dispute is whether Hindus should have it to build a temple to their god Rama, or Muslims should possess it to rebuild their Babri Mosque, torn down by a Hindu mob in 1992.

The trial has dragged on for more than half a century--since India gained independence from Britain in 1947--but its roots date back 450 years. Ultimately the three High Court judges must decide whether a 16th-century Muslim conqueror built a mosque on the ruins of a temple marking the 7,000-year-old birthplace of Rama.

The modern-day battle has resulted, directly or indirectly, in thousands of deaths. Last year riots killed nearly 1,000 Muslims in western Gujarat state after Muslims incinerated a train car carrying 60 Hindu pilgrims from Ayodhya.

The Terror Industry Fields Its Ultimate Weapon
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/08/24/weekinreview/24VANN.html?ex=1062302400&en=eeed90df91362fee&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

Well, GOSH! It's an industry now.

It's interesting that families of suicide bombers are targetted for recruitment. Maybe a bit of Darwinism in action.

Here's some of that industry being put to use...

'Road map' in shreds as Arafat halts purge
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/08/24/wmid24.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/08/24/ixnewstop.html

Saudi chief cleric: Muslims should not kill non-Muslims
http://www.albawaba.com/news/index.php3?sid=256900&lang=e&dir=news

What makes a suicide bomber tick?
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,206297,00.html

All the time, spiritual leaders would boost spirits by repeatedly condemning the target and reiterating the reward of sacrifice in order to reinforce the appeal of death.

Studies have shown that many bombers share a firm belief that sacrificing their lives will reap them rewards for eternity.

Suicide bomber wins muted praise
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2003/08/22/2003064744
Friends and family paint a picture of 29-year-old Raed Mesk that is now the classic portrait of a suicide bomber, particularly one from Hebron. No one believed he was capable, they said. People described him as a deeply religious man who was a preacher in the local mosque and just months from completing his degree in religion.

Teaching hatred: the worst abuse
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/08/22/1061529332230.html

'What could be better than going to paradise?" asks the sweet-faced, smiling girl. She looks about 12. "Just give us the weapons - the girls and the boys will kill them," says another girl. "I see my death. I hasten my steps towards it. This is a hero's death," says a small boy.

"What do you want?" an interviewer bends down and asks a tiny child, who is perhaps three, perhaps four. "To kill the Jews," lisps the child.

You know, I bet a few Christian home schoolers are teaching some similarly good values in total privacy to children who have no perspective from which to draw.

My Favorite Google News search terms:
Church
Reverend
Religious violence
Religious killing

Though rotten.com often has some good material that I miss.

crocodile deathroll

24th August 2003, 06:53 AM

If we are told by a preacher that the "lord" will vomit people into hell for merely failing to contribute to church funds in the event of their funeral, then I what will he tell us when he is officiating at the funeral of this guy?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3177021.stm

evildave

24th August 2003, 11:25 AM

Yes, and in the former case, it was because the guy the funeral was for was terminally ill, and unable to attend services. The preacher was miffed he hadn't made the effort to be at church lately, so he condemns him to hell for a eulogy. Nice guy.

It just makes you wonder about the "moral highground" of religious organizations.... as does the pederasts, the killers, the terrorists, etc.

evildave

24th August 2003, 03:51 PM

Bomb explodes outside religious cleric's home, U.S.-led coalition hiring former Iraqi intelligence agents
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/08/24/international1131EDT0435.DTL
A bomb exploded outside the house of one of Iraqi's most important Shiite clerics on Sunday, killing three guards and injuring 10 others. The fresh violence comes as the U.S.-led coalition quietly recruits former Iraqi spies to work with American intelligence officials in the country, according to Iraqis.

Who'd have thought? We overthrow a country full of people that hate each other, and they start killing each other....

I wonder how long until Iraq is a Shiite Theocracy, since Shiites are the majority there, and Iran would support them, and Saudi Arabia would support them, and heck, even Kuwait would support them. Democracy, after all.

Here's anothe rosy image of the ongoing cluster-f***.
Why U.N. is a target (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1061676608528&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968705899037)

(Potential) Religious violence (Potentially) catastrophic
http://www.malawihere.com/viewnews.asp?id=1997&recnum=7&catid=1
Blantyre - Malawi's President Bakili Muluzi on Sunday warned that he would not tolerate religious violence following a violent demonstration by Muslims protesting the deportation of suspected al-Qaeda members.

Uganda rebel army tightens grip on north
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,2637379a12,00.html
GULU: When a wooden club was flung to the ground beside his already beaten body, 15-year-old Kenneth Banya knew it was his turn to be bludgeoned to death by fellow children abducted by rebels in northern Uganda.

"I started crying because I knew I was going to die," said Kenneth, a slender boy with a shy smile and dimples that belie the gravity of his words.

A dozen children swiftly kicked and beat him unconscious. He was spared death only when a commander intervened in a rare show of mercy among the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA), Uganda's shadowy rebel movement notorious for its acts of extreme brutality.

India, Pakistan gripped by religious frenzy
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_18-8-2003_pg7_48

A fitting tribute...

Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics
And the Catholics hate the Protestants
And the Moslems hate the Hindus
And everybody hates the Jews

- Tom Lehrer (National Brotherhood Week)

Remember: They both have nukes....

Bali's comeback blown away
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/EH23Ae05.html
Their other implication, though expressed in polite Bahasa Indonesia with a distinctive Balinese accent, is more alarming: that Bali was selected by the Islamic extremists because of its predominantly Hindu population. The country's racial and religious harmony - although it has been tarnished by anti-Chinese and anti-Christian riots from time to time - is valued by many Indonesians, who fear that any violence motivated by religious bigotry can harm the country deeply.

evildave

25th August 2003, 08:38 PM

Scientology wanted millions, gets $4,500
http://www.sptimes.com/2003/08/21/Tampabay/Scientology_wanted_mi.shtml
Liebreich, 74, is the personal representative of the estate of Lisa McPherson, a Scientologist who died in 1995 after 17 days in the care of the church. From her home in rural Texas, Liebreich laughed and cried.

It has been nearly 30 years since the Church of Scientology established its religious headquarters in downtown Clearwater. But this is the first time a Pinellas jury had been convened in a lawsuit involving the church. The Church of Scientology sought more than $2-million in punitive damages from Dandar, an attorney who spent more than six years championing a wrongful death lawsuit on behalf of the McPherson estate against the church.

Alleged devil worshipper convicted in death of college student
http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/6614279.htm
JACKSONVILLE, Fla. - An alleged devil worshipper faces life in prison for killing a college student in his apartment and then setting her body on fire.

Mark Anthony Alverez, 30, was convicted in the death of Crisie Mejias, a 20-year-old California student he met while working as a bouncer at a salsa dance Aug. 5, 2001. Jurors deliberated more than ten hours Saturday before finding Alverez guilty of second-degree murder and second-degree arson. On Monday, Circuit Judge Lance Day scheduled sentencing for Oct. 7.

High percentage of genital mutilation
http://www.mmail.com.my/Current_News/NST/Monday/World/20030825081800/Article/
Technically known as infibulation, female circumcision is defined by the World Health Organisation as the "excision of part or all of the external genitalia and the stitching or narrowing of the vaginal opening".

It is carried out on girls aged between seven and 11 before they reach puberty and can cause internal bleeding, urine retention and infections.

The only Arab countries where female circumcision is known to be carried out are Egypt, Sudan and Yemen, which imported the practice from Africa, where it is deemed essential to protect the honour of girls. — AFP

'Under the Banner of Heaven': Book ties religion to violence
http://www.thespectrum.com/news/stories/20030825/topstories/126042.html
ST. GEORGE -- Stopping for gas three years ago on the Utah-Arizona border, Jon Krakauer was shocked to see residents dressed in 19th century-style bloomers and long underwear.

"I was blown away," he recalled. "There were thousands of polygamists living there and no one knew about it."

Now, thanks to his national bestseller, "Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith," thousands of readers have been introduced -- at least from the book cover -- to the border towns of Hildale, Utah and Colorado City, Ariz., which house the largest polygamous colony in America.

Even more, the nonfiction book has put a double murder of 1984 in the headlines, while linking the murderers' fanatical fundamental beliefs to some violent chapters in the history of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Uproar over Mel Gibson film
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7070088%255E1702,00.html
"There is a great deal of pressure on Israel right now and Christians seem to be a major source of support for Israel," Haggard said, after a private viewing of the film for top evangelicals.

"For the Jewish leaders to risk alienating two billion Christians over a movie seems shortsighted."

Fugitive Reverend to Face Judge
http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=35759
The central figure in a controversial case of child abuse in church is expected in court Monday.

Reverend Arthur Allen, the leader of the House of Prayer church, is due in DeKalb County court at 2 p.m. Allen will meet with Judge T. Jackson Bedford, who will decide if Allen's probation should be revoked. If it is, Allen faces up to 10 years in prison.

After five months on the run, police caught up with the elusive Allen a week ago when an officer sought to arrest him for a parking violation.

Bishop orders review following priest's arrest
ST. AUGUSTINE, FL (AP) -- The Diocese of St. Augustine is undertaking a review of policies and procedures following the arrest of a Keystone Heights priest on charges of taking more than $400,000 from his former parish.

If you can't trust the clergy....

evildave

27th August 2003, 08:39 PM

Hindu Pilgrims Stampede in India; at Least 32 Dead
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=3344158
http://www.guardian.co.uk/india/story/0,12559,1030516,00.html
NASIK, India (Reuters) - Stampeding pilgrims trampled at least 32 people to death, many of them elderly women, at a Hindu festival Wednesday.

The tragedy happened as thousands of pilgrims pushed and shoved along a narrow lane to a bathing pond on the banks of the Godavari river at Nasik in Western India to cleanse their sins.

Changing tactics speed growth of Jehovah's Witnesses
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/136796_jehovah27.html
And yet, here they were on a sunny morning in summer skirts, Bibles in hand, ready for more. But instead of ringing doorbells, they circled bus stops and parking lots, in search of lone commuters -- and anyone else, really, who looked available. No one escaped their eagle eyes -- not drivers, joggers, baristas or construction workers.

Afghan Taliban a Growing Menace to Stability
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=MRIOYOCBRDTEKCRBAEOCF EY?type=reutersEdge&storyID=3336533
KANDAHAR (Reuters) - Operating in growing numbers, the Taliban and their allies have succeeded in destabilizing large parts of Afghanistan and creating conditions that could undermine the U.S. military and central government.

Aid and reconstruction is suspended across swathes of territory in the center, south and southeast, giving Afghans the impression the international community has abandoned them now the Taliban has been formally ousted.

"Once people are discouraged, that is the point of success for them, as no one will collaborate (with the authorities)," said Khalid Pashtun, director of foreign affairs in the south of the country.

New Afghan Constitution Is Worrying U.S. Panel
http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/news1.afghan.html
"We believe the constitution as it is taking shape right now will not preserve basic freedoms," said Felice Gaer, the vice-chair of the nine-member commission who headed the Afghanistan visit and a senior official with the American Jewish Committee. "We have to prevent the return of Taliban-like attitudes, and I believe the administration is starting to realize that if this happens under U.S. guidance, it would be a major policy failure that would set a bad precedent for what we're doing in Iraq."

Woman could die by stoning
http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/0803/28nigeria.html
The divorced woman was convicted of having sex outside marriage in March 2002 by an Islamic court following the birth of her daughter, Wasila, out of wedlock.

The girl is now nearly 2.

Introduction of Islamic law, or Sharia, has heightened Muslim-Christian tensions in Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation.

Religious, ethnic and political violence has claimed at least 10,000 lives since President Olusegun Obasanjo's 1999 election ended 15 years of repressive military juntas.

Political rivalries divide Shia faithful in Najaf
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059479374161
Tensions have risen in the Shia Muslim holy city of Najaf this week, with thousands of mourners packing the streets for the funerals of three bodyguards killed in Sunday's bombing of the office of Mohammed Said al-Hakim, one of Iraq's leading religious authorities.

The attack on Ayatollah Hakim, who escaped with slight injuries, has profoundly shocked Shia congregations and underlined the volatility of Shia politics.

Some of the mourners blamed the attack on supporters of Moqtada al-Sadr, a young cleric winning support for his strong criticism of the US presence.

evildave

28th August 2003, 08:20 PM

Minister barred from exorcisms
Suspect in death out on bail
http://www.jsonline.com/news/metro/aug03/165293.asp
A self-described minister facing a criminal charge in the death of an autistic child during a prayer session was ordered not to perform exorcisms as a bail condition during a Wednesday court appearance.

270 Bodies Exhumed From Bosnia Grave
http://networks.org/?src=abc:ap20030828_241
About 250,000 people, mostly civilians, were killed during the war between local Muslims, Croats and Serbs that began in 1992 and ended three and a half years later. So far, forensic experts have exhumed 16,500 bodies from more than 300 mass graves throughout Bosnia.

Slain Priest To Get Clean Slate
http://networks.org/?src=cbs:2003:08:27:national:main570307
For 30 years, the Catholic Church covered up his crimes. Now days after his death, comes word the court system may go one step further and erase his conviction.

It's a legal loophole that's left a long line of victims feeling victimized all over again, reports CBS News Correspondent Byron Pitts.

"How dare the power of our government try to sweep clean such a dirty record," said Maryetta Dussourd, a victim's relative.

Abandon crucifix: Catholic priest
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7089287%5E421,00.html
A SUNSHINE Coast Catholic priest has been accused of undermining church teachings by saying the crucifix should never have become the symbol of Christianity and that Jesus would have been crucified naked.

Bomb Blasts Rock Mumbai
http://www.indiawest.com/cgi-bin/news/viewNews.cgi?article=1062026255&Department=News
MUMBAI (Reuters, TNN) - Two car bombs killed at least 50 people in India's financial capital on Aug. 25, one ripping through a congested bullion market and the second exploding minutes later near the Gateway of India, the city's most popular tourist attraction.

evildave

30th August 2003, 12:06 AM

Sex abuse victim sues Kingstons
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/aug/08292003/utah/87921.asp
More than five years after she was belt-whipped for fleeing a forced polygamous marriage to her uncle at age 16, Mary Ann Kingston is still scared, but flanked by attorneys, she is ready to do battle.

http://www.theadvertiser.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5936,7110796%255E1702,00.html
82 dead in Iraq mosque bombing
From correspondents in Najaf

OUTRAGE and condemnation poured forth today after Iraq's top Shi'ite Muslim political leader and 81 others were killed when a car bomb exploded outside one of Shi'ite Islam's holiest shrines, in the worst attack since the start of the US-led occupation.

The United Nations and the White House condemned the attack overnight, the Islamic holy day, and the assassination of Ayatollah Mohammad Baqer al-Hakim, while analysts said it would deal a blow to efforts to rebuild the war-shattered country.

Religious Violence Feared With Cleric's Death
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woshia0830,0,6007692.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines
The assassination of Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim in the Shia Muslim holy city of Najaf could unleash a level of religious violence not seen in Iraq for decades. And it deprives the United States of a pragmatic Iraqi leader as tensions mount in the country.

Pessimists see no way out of Palestinian-Israeli crisis without a bloodbath
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/opinion/30_08_03_i.asp
With Iraq and the Palestinian territories sinking deeper into turmoil, the debate is intensifying between pessimists, who believe the crises in Middle East are intractable and optimists, who see a light at the end of the tunnel, Gebran Tueni said Thursday.
In his weekly column, Tueni said pessimists see no way out of the Palestinian-Israeli crisis without a “bloodbath,” which will result in the downfall of Yasser Arafat or Ariel Sharon, or both. To them, the “road map” is irretrievably dead.

Yahweh

30th August 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Abandon crucifix: Catholic priest
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7089287%5E421,00.html
A SUNSHINE Coast Catholic priest has been accused of undermining church teachings by saying the crucifix should never have become the symbol of Christianity and that Jesus would have been crucified naked.
Those crazy Catholics, they always have the same thing on their mind all the time, dont they? :D

Some Friggin Guy

30th August 2003, 05:45 AM

That wacky Anti-Christ! (http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/08/29/missing.boy.ap/index.html)

evildave

30th August 2003, 10:51 AM

Ahh, another antichrist one! Thanks!

Yaweh
To be fair, TWO things.

Saviors & Sex.

And Forgivenness of falling to temptation...

THREE, three things.

Saviors, Sex, Forgivenness, and a fanatical devotion to the pope!

Oh, we'll start again....

Roadtoad

30th August 2003, 09:46 PM

Some of the real news is about as funny as this joke I found:

On their way to get married, a young couple is involved in a fatal car accident. The couple find themselves sitting outside the Pearly Gates waiting for St. Peter to process them into Heaven. While waiting, they begin to wonder, could they possibly get married in Heaven?

When St. Peter shows up, they ask him. St. Peter says, "I don't know. This is the first time anyone has asked, let me go and find out," and he leaves.

The couple sits and waits for an answer ... for a couple of months. While they wait, they discuss that IF they were allowed to get married in Heaven, SHOULD they get married, and what with the eternal aspect of it all. "What if it doesn't work?" they wondered, "Are we stuck together FOREVER?"

After yet another month, St. Peter finally returns, looking somewhat bedraggled. "Yes," he informs the couple, "you CAN get married in Heaven.”

“Great!" said the couple, "But we were just wondering, what if things don't work out? Could we also get a divorce in Heaven?"

St. Peter, red-faced with anger, slams his clipboard onto the ground.

"What's wrong?" asked the frightened couple.

"Holy crap!" St. Peter shouts, "It took me three months just to find a priest up here! Do you have ANY f***ing idea how long it'll take me to find a lawyer?"

evildave

30th August 2003, 10:08 PM

Groan.

Saudis Held in Bombing at Mosque
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woiraq0831,0,104860.story?coll=ny-worldnews-headlines
With the reported arrest of at least two Saudi nationals for alleged involvement in the bombing Friday that killed Iraq's leading Shia Muslim cleric, attention has focused again on the role of foreign fighters in the Iraqi insurgency.

If it turns out that Sunni Muslim extremists were behind the car bombing in Najaf that killed at least 85 people, including Ayatollah Muhammad Bakr al-Hakim, the incident could unleash widespread violence between Shia and Sunni Muslims. It could reach a scale to make the U.S. occupation and rebuilding efforts in the country untenable.

So, when do you think we'll bomb Saudi Arabia?

Iowa priest admits to child pornography charge
http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=1423465
Des Moines, Iowa-AP -- A priest in Des Moines, Iowa, has admitted in court to keeping child pornography on a church computer.

The Reverend Richard Poster pleaded guilty Friday to receiving pictures of children engaged in sexual conduct. He could get up to 15 years in prison and a quarter-million dollars in fines.

Bizarre Encounter Leads to Chase; Arrest
http://www.wdtn.com/index.cfm?action=dsp_story&storyid=13362
Upon arriving on the scene, he did not find a crash, but found a red van with 45-year old David Schneider inside. When Officer Hawley spoke with Schneider, Hawley says Schneider was asking bizarre and claimed he was the son of God. Moments later, Schneider rammed his van into Hawley's cruiser twice.

evildave

31st August 2003, 10:31 PM

Iraqi cleric blames coalition
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/content/news/daily/0901iraq.html
NAJAF, Iraq | As the death toll increased to 125 in last week’s car bomb attack outside a crowded mosque, the most prominent religious leader in Iraq Sunday laid blame on the U.S.-led coalition for the country’s lack of security.

‘‘We are putting upon the occupation forces the responsibility for what Iraq is witnessing now. There is a lack of security. There is a lot of crime,’’ Grand Ayatollah Ali Hussein Sistani said in a letter made public Sunday.

Divine Tax Intervention
http://www.cato.org/dailys/09-01-03.html
You may be following the political hullabaloo in Alabama where the Republican governor wants to pass the biggest tax increase in the state' s history and says he has a highly influential advocate supporting him: God.

Gov. Robert Riley says that it is his "Christian duty" to raise taxes (by 22 percent) in order to fund vital government services to help the poor.

"Jesus says one of our missions is to take care of the least among us," says Mr. Riley. "We've got to take care of the poor."

When Jihad Becomes Fighting!
http://english.daralhayat.com/opinion/08-2003/Article-20030831-597625d1-c0a8-01ed-0055-39d8f0d8b172/story.html
And the question is: is there any assault to Islam nowadays more than that saying that Islam supports terrorism? It might be said that Islam incites Jihad, and fighting is Jihad, thus fighting the adversary is one of this religion's obligations. At this stage, clarifying must be made to understand this paradox.

Preaching white supremacy in South Africa
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3189397.stm
Almost 10 years after the end of apartheid, far-right religious groups in South Africa appear to be growing.

evildave

1st September 2003, 05:02 PM

Backlash feared as anti-abortionist who murdered doctor faces death penalty
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=439418
Barring an unlikely last-minute reprieve, Hill, 49, a former Presbyterian minister who shot and killed a doctor who provided abortions, will be executed on Wednesday evening in the first such case in US history. Some observers believe his death will not only fuel the debate about abortion but may also trigger further attacks on doctors and clinics.

To his militant supporters, Hill, a married father of three, is set to become a martyr for the anti-abortion cause. The comments posted on a website by one supporter, Joshua Conlon, are typical: "Thinking of examples like you who are martyrs for Christ and His brethren... I am beside myself! You and your family are in my prayers, and in my heart!!"

All this talk of 'martyrs'. Let's try some word substitution.

"Thinking of examples like you who are martyrs for Allah and His prophets... I am beside myself! You and your family are in my prayers, and in my heart!!"

Sounds just like the Islamic terrorists: right down to the violence triggered by violence.

Oh yeah!

Feel the LOVE!

MURDER FOR LOVE!

Five on trial for child ritual murders
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7100042%255E1702,00.html
FIVE influential members of Brazilian society went on trial this week for the suspected torture, castration and murder of five children, aged eight to 13, in satanic rites over a decade ago.

Two mutilated survivors testified at the trial.

Prosecutors charged that 19 children used in black magic rituals at Altamira, in Brazil's Amazon region, between 1989 and 1993. Five had been tortured, some castrated, before being killed.

Apparently more good works "for the children".

evildave

1st September 2003, 05:46 PM

39 civilians killed in three days in Ugandan civil war
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_358681,00050006.htm
Some 39 civilians have been killed in the past three days, many of them hacked to death, in separate attacks blamed on rebels from the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) in northeastern Uganda, the army said on Monday.

In the latest attack, on Monday, rebels ambushed a bus in the northeastern Soroti district, killing 25 civilians, spokesman Major Shaban Bantariza said.

...

The LRA has been battling government forces in the north of the country since 1988 with a declared aim of replacing President Yoweri Museveni's secular government with one based on the biblical Ten Commandments.

Their campaign has been marked by brutality against the civilian population of northern Uganda, continuously abducting young boys for forced recruitment as rebel fighters and girls as sex slaves for rebel commanders.

Yahzi

1st September 2003, 07:12 PM

Originally posted by evildave
So, when do you think we'll bomb Saudi Arabia?
[/B]
Well, the people on the bomb end of the Saudi stick these days are the Iraqis. Perhaps at some point they will feel that their national security requires them to invade Saudi Arabia, just as we invaded Iraq and Afghanistan, and the Israelis invade Palestine.

Wouldn't that be a funny sight... Iraq invading Saudi Arabia armed with USA weapons. Hang on, that sounds familar somehow...

:D

evildave

2nd September 2003, 10:07 PM

Enemy With A Human Face
http://frontpagemag.com/articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=9564

About ISMs and mega-deaths for Islam.

Party Poopers
http://www.datalounge.com/datalounge/news/record.html?record=20953
NEW ORLEANS, La. -- The annual Labor Day bash in New Orleans known as "Southern Decadence," which draws some 100,000 party-goers, was marred this past weekend by protests from religious fundamentalists, an assault charge against a pastor and a stabbing, New Orleans police told reporters.

Malaysian minister: 'Lipstick invites rape'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/3200325.stm
In his speech last weekend, Mr Nik Aziz declared that wearing a headscarf was not enough to avoid arousing men.

Wearing a head scarf is not enough, says the Kelantan minister
Even a very modestly dressed woman could stir up desires in the opposite sex by applying glossy lipstick or perfume, he said.

Vatican accused of promoting priest-sex abuser
http://www.billingsgazette.com/index.php?id=1&display=rednews/2003/09/02/build/world/64-abuser.inc
DALLAS (AP) -- The Vatican promoted a U.S. Roman Catholic priest through its diplomatic corps despite warnings he had molested a girl in the Archdiocese of Cincinnati, according to a newspaper report.

A spokeswoman for the archdiocese, Tricia Hempel, told the Dallas Morning News that the Vatican knew of the allegations against the diplomat, Monsignor Daniel Pater. Pater had acknowledged molesting the girl when he was confronted about a decade ago, she said.

Gravedigger arrested for selling skulls
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=86&click_id=68&art_id=ct20011110201606495S42081&set_id=1
n Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation with more than 110 million people, many believe witchcraft involving the use of human genitals, eyes, tongues and skulls can make them instant millionaires.

arcticpenguin

3rd September 2003, 10:00 AM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=5&u=/nm/20030903/od_nm/goddess_dc

KATHMANDU (Reuters) - Nepal's living child goddess is refusing to greet foreigners at her historic temple because of a dispute with city officials over how to split the tourist dollar.

Tourist donations for the Kumari goddess have dried up since Kathmandu levied a $2.50 fee on every foreigner entering the city's ancient Durbar Square, which is crammed with temples and palaces.

So Kumari's caretakers are not letting foreigners see her, even from a distance, until the city shares the money, according to the popular magazine Himal.
..
Foreigners have always been banned from meeting the Kumari, a young girl chosen from a high class Buddhist family who is also worshipped by Hindus and who reigns until puberty.

But they are allowed into the tiny courtyard of her 15th century temple, where she frequently appears at her ornately carved balcony window, a mythical third eye painted on her forehead, to wave at the visitors below.

Devotees are furious at the row.

"It is not proper to commercialize the tradition of the Kumari," said Tej Ratna Tamrakar, a devout Buddhist.

evildave

3rd September 2003, 08:45 PM

Antiabortion Militant Executed for Killings
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A22663-2003Sep3.html
STARKE, Fla., Sept. 3 -- Paul Hill, a former minister who said he murdered an abortion doctor and his bodyguard to save the lives of unborn babies, was executed today by injection. He was the first person put to death in the United States for antiabortion violence.

Hill, 49, was condemned for the July 29, 1994, shooting deaths of John Bayard Britton and his bodyguard, retired Air Force Lt. Col. James Herman Barrett, and wounding Barrett's wife, June, outside the Ladies Center in Pensacola.

Hill was pronounced dead at 6:08 p.m., Gov. Jeb Bush's office said.

Muslim cleric guilty of treason
http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~1607777,00.html
JAKARTA, Indonesia -- An Indonesian court Tuesday convicted Muslim cleric Abubakar Bashir, 65, of treason for his involvement with the Jemaah Islamiah terrorist underground but sentenced him to only four years in prison, far less than prosecutors had sought.

Although police have identified Bashir as the head of Jemaah Islamiah, a regional militant network linked to al-Qaida, the five-judge panel ruled that prosecutors failed to prove he commanded the group.

The organization was responsible for the bombing of two Bali nightclubs last year, which killed 202 people, and has been blamed by Indonesian police for the attack last month on the J.W. Marriott Hotel in Jakarta, which killed 12. Bashir was not charged in either incident.

The art of begging
http://ww1.mid-day.com/columns/rohit_gupta/2003/september/62960.htm
The holy man pouts with disgust, ‘‘Tut, tchut….arrey bachcha, if you’re giving, give with an open heart. What is this?!’’ ‘‘My heart doesn’t open more than this, baba,’’ replies the cashier and starts putting the money back. The sadhu grabs it before he can. He waves the money on the counter with disdain (but doesn’t let go) and says, ‘‘We don’t want this! (on second thoughts) Okay, fine, two hundred will do, C’mon…we need some wheat for the journey. It’s a long journey.’’

Woman Gets 50 to Life in Child Drowning
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030903_1039.html
Wilhelm claimed she drowned Luke because she believed her husband had joined a satanic cult and planned to harm both children. She pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.

Yahweh

3rd September 2003, 08:55 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Gravedigger arrested for selling skulls
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?sf=86&click_id=68&art_id=ct20011110201606495S42081&set_id=1
n Nigeria, Africa's most populous nation with more than 110 million people, many believe witchcraft involving the use of human genitals, eyes, tongues and skulls can make them instant millionaires.
Well, a testicle can get you a clean US$50000, and I read online if you donated all the parts of your body that you could, you would pull in some US$3,000,000... of course you'd be a hollowed out rotting cadaver... but your rich...

Yahweh

3rd September 2003, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Woman Gets 50 to Life in Child Drowning
http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030903_1039.html
Wilhelm claimed she drowned Luke because she believed her husband had joined a satanic cult and planned to harm both children. She pleaded not guilty by reason of insanity.
God knows a simple devorce would have been out of the question... keep the kid, dont go to jail for life for first degree murder of your child, and you get half his stuff...

evildave

3rd September 2003, 09:08 PM

Yeah, well, what does 'divorce' mean when you're a total psycho, and believe in demons?

evildave

4th September 2003, 10:13 PM

Jihad rules in Islamic school
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/09/04/indonesia.school/
JAKARTA, Indonesia (CNN) -- In the al Mukmin Islamic school in the Javanese city of Solo a slogan above one classroom reads, "Death in the way of Allah is our highest aspiration."

In a boarding school where the alumni includes nearly all of Indonesia's top terror suspects, pictures of AK47's are plastered on the hallways.

The suicide bomber from last month's Marriott Hotel blast in Jakarta studied here, as did many of the men now on trial for the Bali bombing last year.

Museum removes
'killer' Christ icon
Piece of art's 'energy field' allegedly causing death of staff
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34413
A museum in St. Petersburg, Russia, has removed an ancient icon depicting Jesus Christ from display because the piece of art's "energy field" reportedly has killed several staff members.

A professor at the Hermitage Museum says he had complained about the effects of the icon for years, reported the London Telegraph. He claims it has led to the death of several supervisors in the facility.

Report: Scientology Stars Sign Away Basic Rights
http://www.nbc5.com/irresistible/2455233/detail.html
NEW YORK -- Several celebrities, along with other members of the Church of Scientology, may have signed away key rights, according to the New York Post, including their right to psychiatric care and the right to see their families.

Among those affected, according to the report, are: Tom Cruise, John Travolta, Lisa Marie Presley, Kirstie Alley, and Juliette Lewis.

The paper said the church requires members to sign documents giving up those rights as they move up in rank in the church hierarchy.

evildave

5th September 2003, 03:59 PM

Mormon Church OKs Firing Squad Change
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-firing-squad-church,0,3472731.story?coll=sns-ap-nationworld-headlines
SALT LAKE CITY -- Hoping to clear the way for eliminating the firing squad as a means of execution, a Utah commission asked for and received a statement from the Mormon church saying it does not oppose the change.

In a one-sentence statement provided Wednesday to the Utah Sentencing Commission, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said it "has no objection to the elimination of the firing squad in Utah."

The clarification was needed, according to one commission member, because of a purported church doctrine that held that justice was not done unless a murderer's blood was shed.

hammegk

5th September 2003, 05:09 PM

Evildave, have you totaled up an approximate box score of ruined lives & deaths?

Let us know when it reaches even 1/100 of the total provided by a piker like Idi Amin. Or do you think he also was a religious zealot?

triadboy

5th September 2003, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by hammegk
Evildave, have you totaled up an approximate box score of ruined lives & deaths?

Let us know when it reaches even 1/100 of the total provided by a piker like Idi Amin. Or do you think he also was a religious zealot?

Sometimes there's very little difference between great stupidity and great ignorance.

evildave

5th September 2003, 07:44 PM

Originally posted by hammegk
Evildave, have you totaled up an approximate box score of ruined lives & deaths?

Let us know when it reaches even 1/100 of the total provided by a piker like Idi Amin. Or do you think he also was a religious zealot?

Totals of "what"?

There are a lot of categories to tally here, and you don't provide sufficient context in your question.

Idi Amin, for instance, went and lived out his days in Saudi Arabia after he was ousted. This tends to indicate he was an upstanding follower of Islam. You pretty much have to be to live there in any capacity besides laborer of guest.

At the very least, it shows The Kingdom didn't wholly condemn his life's actions.

evildave

5th September 2003, 07:54 PM

If you mean to imply that Mormons are free of "badness", you need look no further than the Mountain Meadows Massacre. It happened (coincidentally) on September 11th.

Killed everyone in a wagon train, carried off the children young enough not to have clear memories of the events.

That's 120.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/27/wmorm27.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/02/27/ixworld.html

Not that the Mormons didn't historically suffer the at the hands of other pious Christians. Many more of them were killed long before they went to their own little promised land.

hammegk

6th September 2003, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by triadboy

Sometimes there's very little difference between great stupidity and great ignorance.
Where do you place yourself? 50/50?

Originally posted by evildave

That's 120.

You got the idea: just 2 groups ...

Badly hurt, still living vs Badly hurt, deceased.

triadboy

6th September 2003, 05:43 PM

Originally posted by hammegk
Where do you place yourself? 50/50?

My God, how do you sleep at night?!

(Ranier Wolfcastle: On a pile of money with many beautiful women.)

evildave

6th September 2003, 11:12 PM

Uganda seeks US military aid
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3077810.stm
Uganda has asked the United States for military assistance in its fight against the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) rebels.

An advisor to the Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni told BBC News Online that the call was made in the spirit of the continuing global war against terrorism, as the LRA is on the US list of terror groups.

But John Nagenda is emphatic that Uganda was not asking the US to send in troops to northern and eastern Uganda where the fighting is concentrated.

Too bad we're busy in Iraq, Afghanistan and Korea right now. Leave a message and we'll get back to you.

Sunnis shot at while praying in Baghdad
http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059479611035
Gunmen attacked a Sunni mosque in Baghdad yesterday, as armed militia assembled during Friday prayers at Shia mosques across Iraq following violence against Shia religious leaders.

Three people were injured at the Quiba mosque in morning prayers when gunmen sprayed the congregation with automatic rifle fire, Walid al-Azari, the imam, said yesterday. He said the gunmen escaped and no one knew their identity. The attack comes as Shia militias gathered to provide security at mosques in Baghdad and Najaf, where a car bomb last Friday killed at least 83 people, including Mohammed Baqir al-Hakim, the high-ranking cleric.

Potter tops list of challenged books
http://www.tulareadvanceregister.com/news/stories/20030906/localnews/207150.html
http://www.hpana.com/news.cfm?nids=17454_potter_tops_list_of_challenged _books
Harry Potter leads a list of the most challenged literature in America, drawing hundreds of complaints from almost exclusively religious sects or individuals this year. While the Harry Potter series is the most obvious example of a series whose right to be placed in a school or public library setting is debated, other books draw attempts of censorship from nearly as many sources.

The American Library Association-sponsored Banned Books Week, which will take take place on September 20-27, recounts past censorship and celebrates free thinking and human's capacity of intellectual freedom.

Yahweh

6th September 2003, 11:37 PM

What exactly is the Lord's Resistance Army?

I've heard of the group, and I've also heard they take some of the parts of the bible glamourizing genocide seriously. I cant find anything on Snopes about them, are they a real group?

evildave

7th September 2003, 01:05 AM

Haven't you read the previous links about them I've posted about them here?

Anyway, they're this group in Uganda that wants to establish a theocracy based on the Ten Commandments "by any means".

"By any means" in Uganda means abducting little boys to make them into soldiers, and little girls to be gang-raped (whom they then murder when they're all worn out - AKA too damaged to be any more fun). Of course, the dead girls might be the lucky ones. They also mutilate all kinds of people. They'll cut people's lips and ears and nose off, and according to their mood, hands and feet as well, and leave them on a roadside alive.

Is it any wonder I find the idea of theocracy utterly chilling? These people think their sacred end justifies any means. Even if it MEANS people who will casually and repeatedly do utterly horrible things to reach that end will be IN CHARGE as part of it.

Of course, when American retards like Judge Moore start down their candy coated version of "10 Commandments in the government", it is sickening.

Yahweh

7th September 2003, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Haven't you read the previous links about them I've posted about them here?

Anyway, they're this group in Uganda that wants to establish a theocracy based on the Ten Commandments "by any means".

"By any means" in Uganda means abducting little boys to make them into soldiers, and little girls to be gang-raped (whom they then murder when they're all worn out - AKA too damaged to be any more fun). Of course, the dead girls might be the lucky ones. They also mutilate all kinds of people. They'll cut people's lips and ears and nose off, and according to their mood, hands and feet as well, and leave them on a roadside alive.
The baby Jesus is lying face down on a pillow right now, and his pillow is covered in tears... AND THE BLOOD OF VIRGIN HEATHENS WHO OPPOSE THE DEVINITY OF GOD BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

Is it any wonder I find the idea of theocracy utterly chilling? These people think their sacred end justifies any means. Even if it MEANS people who will casually and repeatedly do utterly horrible things to reach that end will be IN CHARGE as part of it.

Of course, when American retards like Judge Moore start down their candy coated version of "10 Commandments in the government", it is sickening.
I've always thought WWIII was going to be inspired by religion... quite a nifty little world we live in, aint it?

Yahzi

7th September 2003, 01:19 AM

Uganda has asked the United States for military assistance in its fight against the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) rebels.
Oh ya. I'm sure the Pentagon is eager for a nice photo-op of Blackhawk helicopters killing children. And nothing would boost the morale of the Marines like sending them in to shoot heavily armed nine-year-olds.

I think what the US ought to do is find out who's paying for the bullets (hint, hint, their neighbors) and pay them a little visit.

The war on terrorism is like any other war, in the sense that it is won not by killing the terrorists but by drying up their funding.

Yahweh

7th September 2003, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by Yahzi
The war on terrorism is like any other war, in the sense that it is won not by killing the terrorists but by drying up their funding.
We can still kill the terrorists, right? No fun drying up the funding without the perk of killing another face on that deck of cards.

evildave

7th September 2003, 10:49 AM

As they said in the article, they don't want any deployment. Just help. A few passes of infrared imaging and whatnot, some training, maybe some good intel gathering, and the main LRA forces might be rooted out.

They've been dealing with the LRA for 15 years. I'm sure if the U.S. is so wise and capable in these affairs as it pretends to be, we'll have that problem as "all cleared up" as in Afghanistan or Iraq, or heck, even Palestine, where we've been so much help already.

I tend to disagree that "drying up their funding" will work. There are so many sources for that, and paths through which that can be transferred. Can we really dry up all sources of bullets in Africa? That seems unrealistic. We still have major nations producing munitions and shipping them into Africa legitimately, and there's money to be made in transporting them. $20 is a HUGE amount of money, and a pack of kids with nothing better to do with their lives will carry that box anywhere you tell them to, in order to collect it is easy to find. Every box that is lost is no big loss, and it just ends up in the hands of groups that don't collect ANY funds.

In the case of the LRA, *someone* will have to kill or capture an army of nine through fifteen year olds. They'll have to capture and kill the leadership to keep them from just rebuilding it again. A simple matter. Just ask the people who captured OBL and Saddam.

Kidnapping children to make them into soldiers is a successful model, and certainly not a new one. Using children as soldiers is not unique to Uganda, and surely this tradition and recruitment technique will be passed on.

Eventually, we have to learn that an a*****e with a gun is an a*****e with a gun. Otherwise, every tin pot dictator wannabe just sticks weapons in young children's hands because nobody wants to hurt little children. What's the difference between a 12 year old and a 15 year old and an 18 year old? The bigger kids can carry bigger guns and more ammo.

A few stories about Liberian and Afghan child soldiers
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0825LiberiaKidSoldiers25-ON.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/08/31/liberia.child.soldiers.reut/
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_25-8-2003_pg4_12
"It's like magic," Bad Pay Bad explained. "I killed people and it doesn't stick to me. I still go to heaven."

Here we have some kids that earnestly don't want to fight anymore, and others that have learned that a gun is all they ever need. Many of these latter boys will only be experienced and willing recruits for the next civil war, where they will probably repeat every form of brutality that were visited on themselves, and old patterns of recruitment and/or kidnapping of children will be willingly followed.

"And I think to myself, it's a buggered up world."

Yahzi

7th September 2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by evildave
What's the difference between a 12 year old and a 15 year old and an 18 year old?
Accountability.

Those twelve year olds cannot reasonably be held morally accountable for becoming soldiers. Killing them is morally wrong.

But allowing them to continue to wage war, and kidnap more kids, is even wronger.

There isn't always a best path: sometimes there's only a least repugnant path. :(

I'm honestly surprised that we haven't been helping them out on the sidelines, as it were, already. I know they got some attack helicopters last year: I think they were American ones.

I think the early days of the LRA required funding from the nieghbors, like the Taliban and Pakistan. But I agree with you that now they probably have outgrown that.

Roadtoad

7th September 2003, 03:07 PM

Part of what we forget about the entrenchment of such conflicts is that there's so many folks willing to sell the necessary technology to continue the fight. Sure, there's plenty of ammo to sell, but it's more profitable in the long run for a lot of these companies to sell groups like the LRA the equipment to make their own bullets, to build their own rockets and RPGs, and even up to building or converting their own vehicles.

Now, you not only have willing customers, but you have an expanded production base, one that's willing to supply the goods for the next fight, regardless of the motivation, or the locale.

Part of what makes the LRA so frightening for me isn't just the notion of a theocracy, (regardless of the deity involved), but that it is hell bent on expansion of the conflict. It's actually in the best interest of Uganda's neighbors to shut these bastards down, and to do so now, before all Hell erupts in the name of Heaven.

(Edited to add: Dave, this is one of the best threads on this board. Thanks.)

evildave

8th September 2003, 12:30 AM

I'm going to have to disagree with you, Yahzi. I feel that age of accountability is set WAY too high by American standards.

21 to drink.
18 to vote/smoke
16 to drive
I would add 14 to be "adult enough" to be liable for any crimes they commit. Maybe younger.

Most teens are stupid, it's true. But they can make plans. They should know right from wrong by then. They still need to be protected from being exploited, but they also should be held responsible for their "dumb" actions.

Really, it's never too early for a little responsibility to be expected of people.

If a child is being a foul-up, it rapidly becomes "too late" for intervention to be effective. We don't need to coddle child offenders. We need to show them that consequences follow actions as clearly and unambiguously as possible. This doesn't mean we lightly slap their wrists and say "don't do it again" for each of a hundred offenses until they turn 18, and then all of a sudden throw them in jail.

If that takes putting a few bullets through little thugs who think their "mojo" will protect them from bullets... then so be it. It won't take many such examples to illustrate the point, compared to what it will take later if nobody acts at all.

evildave

8th September 2003, 09:12 PM

Looks like pederasts and molester priests are back in the news again.

Local Priest Target Of Sex Abuse Lawsuit
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/2462798/detail.html
LOS ANGELES -- A Roman Catholic priest in Orange County, Calif., has been put on leave after being targeted by a lawsuit alleging he engaged in sexual relations with a boy in the mid-1970s.

The Reverend Daniel Murray, pastor of Our Lady of Mount Carmel Church, was suspended on Tuesday, a week after the diocese was served with the suit.

Fishman used several secret (http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karin_Spaink) Scientology documents to support claims that he had been brainwashed by the Church. As a result, these documents became public material. The Fishman Affidavit has been travelling on the Net ever since. Karin Spaink was one of many to publish these secret scriptures as early as 1995.

Church knew of sex abuse claims for decades
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/138402_priest06.html
For 40 years, the Archdiocese of Seattle hung onto the Rev. James McGreal, despite repeated complaints that he was a serial pedophile. The archdiocese's defense: It had sent him to treatment, restricted his duties and thought he was safe.

Then more complaints would pop up.

Ex-monk now helps victims sue church
http://www.durangoherald.com/asp-bin/article_generation.asp?article_type=rel&article_path=/religion/rel030907.htm
As a Benedictine monk, Patrick Wall cleaned up and covered up the sins of priests – pastors who were quietly transferred when their sexual and financial trespasses threatened to ignite public scandal.

He was the affable replacement – a ruddy-faced, Irish-American priest whose fondest desire was a life of study and worship – a fireplug of rugged intensity and emanating faith.

So it was that Father Patrick, born to devout Catholics in a small Minnesota town, went from one mess to the next, his spiritual path and career trajectory charted by the mistakes of fallen brethren.

Priest, Accused Of Nude Swimming With Kids, Takes Leave From Church
http://www.wabi.tv/story.asp?4823
(WABI) A Roman Catholic priest in the western Maine town of Oquossoc accused of nude swimming, boating and hot-tubbing with minors at a Waterford summer camp in the 1980s has taken a leave of absence from his church.

11 killed in Held Kashmir violence
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_9-9-2003_pg7_2
* India calls off marathon hunt for militants in Kathua forests
* Prominent lawmaker escapes assassination attempt

SRINAGAR: At least 11 people were killed in Held Kashmir on Monday, including a militant who took refuge in a mosque after a fierce firefight with troops, police said.

The mosque takeover occurred late afternoon in Rinipura near Shopian, 50km south of Srinagar, following an attack by militants on a patrol of Indian soldiers, a police official said.

Police nab six Muslims after Mwanza fracas
http://www.ippmedia.com/guardian/2003/09/09/guardian4.asp
Police in Mwanza have arrested six Muslims of Al-Mallid Islamic International Progation Centre for allegedly preaching sedition against Christianity and the government.

...

Impeccable sources told The Guardian that, the preachers started to abuse Christianity after seeing followers of Pentecostal Church of Reverend Mwakasege installing the platform for another crusade on the same grounds.
Sources noted that the Mwanza City Council had permitted the Pentecostal Church faithfuls to use the grounds from Sept. 8, 2003 to Sept. 14, 2003 while Al-Mallid was given a permit from August 31 to Sept. 10, 2003 to use the same grounds.
“These contradicting permissions are the source of the conflict. Moslems thought that the Christians wanted to challenge the Muslim preachers hence the attacks,” a source close to the Al-Mallid leaders here said.
However, the RPC refuted the allegations on grounds that, police did not allow Rev. Mwakasege to use Furahisha grounds, instead he was permitted to use Nyakabungo grounds.

Chinese Government Says Falun Gong Must Be Battled 'until the End'
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGANJ5P3CKD.html
BEIJING (AP) - The very "prosperity and stability" of modern China is at stake in the battle against the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement, the communist government in Beijing is warning as it promises to renew the fight.

Har!

Scientologists loses copyright case
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/32701.html
The Court of Appeal in The Hague last week rejected all of the Church of Scientology's claims its action against the Dutch ISP Xs4all, writer Karin Spaink and ten other internet providers for publishing copyrighted material on the web.

evildave

9th September 2003, 09:24 PM

Religious violence erupts in Moluccas
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/2243896.stm
Mobs took to the streets in a predominantly-Muslim quarter of the regional capital, Ambon, and torched a van carrying Christians - one person was burnt to death, police said.

The rioting was apparently triggered by news that three Muslim women had been shot dead on a beach on the island of Sapura.

Rival Mali Muslim Groups In Deadly Clash
http://www.sacobserver.com/news/090903/mali_deadly_clash.shtml
YERERE, Mali (NNPA) - Fighting between rival Sunnite and Shiite Muslim villagers in Western Mali over the construction of a new mosque recently left 13 people dead and about 20 wounded, police and court sources said.

The incident on Aug. 25 took place in the mainly Sunni village of Yerere, 11 miles from a town close to the Mauritanian border, 335 miles west of Bamako, the capital, they said.

Fighting broke out when a group of individuals attacked workers who were building the first-ever Sunni mosque in Yerere. The village already had seven Shiite mosques.

We only tolerate Burger King! You can not build a McDonalds HERE!

Hindu-Muslim clashes injure 12 in western India
AHMEDABAD, India, Sept 9 (Reuters) - At least 12 people were injured on Tuesday when Hindus and Muslims clashed during an annual Hindu festival in the volatile western Indian state of Gujarat, police said.
...
Gujarat witnessed bloody religious riots last year when Hindu mobs targeted minority Muslims to avenge the death of 59 Hindu pilgrims who were burnt alive in a train in Godhra town by a Muslim mob.

More than 1,000 people, mostly Muslims, were killed in the attacks.

Methodists appeal decision to allow 'Satan' defamation lawsuit
http://www.whnt19.com/Global/story.asp?S=1435842
Des Moines, Iowa-AP -- The United Methodist Church has asked the U-S Supreme Court to review an Iowa ruling that a church member can sue over a warning that "the spirit of Satan" was at work in her congregation.
At issue is a letter written by a church official after he met with members of a congregation embroiled in a dispute over their pastor.

Jane Kliebenstein and her husband sued the United Methodist Church, claiming that she was defamed by the Reverend Jerrold Swinton's statement that "the spirit of Satan" was dividing the congregation.

Ah, so it's OK for churches to WANT representation in government, but they don't want it the other way? Who'd have guessed?

evildave

10th September 2003, 09:05 PM

Terrorism in the age of religion
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,209152,00.html
The pious cannot begin to strive for good until they recognise the potential for evil in their faith and the evil done in its name

A truly historic lawsuit
http://www.jewsweek.com/bin/en.jsp?enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enDispWho=Article%5El687&enZone=Opinions&enVersion=0&
Dr. Hilmi's lawsuit is ostensibly being filed against "all the Jews of the world" for recovery of property allegedly stolen during the exodus of the Jewish people from Egypt approximately 3,300 years ago.

Saudi police say Barbie dolls a threat to morality
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/09/10/saudi.barbie.ap/index.html
RIYADH, Saudi Arabia (AP) -- Saudi Arabia's religious police have declared Barbie dolls a threat to morality, complaining that the revealing clothes of the "Jewish" toy -- already banned in the kingdom -- are offensive to Islam.

The Committee for the Propagation of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, as the religious police are officially known, lists the dolls on a section of its Web site devoted to items deemed offensive to the conservative Saudi interpretation of Islam

Man charged with sacrilege at church

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/story.jsp?story=442111
He was also charged with indecent behaviour under the Ecclesiastical Courts Act of 1860 by smearing excrement around the altar steps. The third charge related to the possession of the drug ecstasy.

Yahweh

10th September 2003, 09:27 PM

If I have anything to say about religion in the news, I say the Catholic faith has been taking a nonstop beating, the Church has corrupted from the inside out.

Oh, and those Muslims need to calm the f**k down, they need to chill, they need to be a little more layed back... killing in the name of religion, I cant think of anything more godawful stupid than that...

Yahzi

11th September 2003, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by Yahweh
killing in the name of religion, I cant think of anything more godawful stupid than that...
Erm... isn't the Old Testament pretty much chock-full of killing in the name of religion?

Ya can't blame the Muslims for actually reading their holy books...

evildave

11th September 2003, 09:19 PM

Presidents apologise for 'all the evils' of past wars
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,209381,00.html
As many as 200,000 people were killed in the ethnic and religious violence from 1991 to 1999 that redrew the map of the former Yugoslavia.

Plight of Nigerian 'wizard' boy
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3100848.stm
In the northern Nigerian state of Taraba, for instance, some parents have been threatening to withdraw their children from school.

According to them, children attending nursery, primary and even secondary schools, are being initiated into witchcraft and cultism.

They say that the practice is not acceptable to them and that it is "safer to have an illiterate child than one deeply engrossed in witchcraft".

Teen hit with skateboard dies from head injuries
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/32D6A6605BE68CBF86256D9E0012F1F1?OpenDocument&Headline=Teen+hit+with+skateboard+dies+from+head+i njuries
Bova Conti said police believe the injury was unintended. He said Michael hit himself in the forehead with his skateboard and then made the challenge to a group of about five boys, including the 14-year-old, while they were at the annual parish picnic at St. Blaise Catholic Church, less than one-half mile from Michael's home.

Darwin time!

Pittsburgh Priest Faces A New Charge in the Death of Frederick Football Player
http://wjz.com/localstories/local_story_254230143.html
Krawczyk was charged after allegedly admitting to giving alcohol to University of Pittsburgh football player and Frederick county native Billy Gaines. An autopsy report showed gaines was drunk when he fell through the ceiling of Krawczyk's church. He later died from head injuries. The original involuntary manslaughter charges were dismissed-- but a district attorney refiled them because he thinks a jury should decide Krawczyk's fate.

Seattle archdiocese settles with alleged abuse victims
http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=1439510
Seattle-AP -- Seattle's Roman Catholic archdiocese has agreed to pay nearly eight (m) million dollars to settle lawsuits brought by 15 men who say they were molested as boys by the same priest.

On the one hand, we have wacky people who think secular schools and such are teaching 'witchcraft', and on the other hand, we have churches and such prominently figuring in deaths and molestations.

evildave

12th September 2003, 08:02 PM

Saudi Arabia mired in its worst militancy crisis
http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=97362
"The situation is much more serious today and the big difference is that religious anger is being directed against the state itself," he said.

"It's easy for young people to get into militant groups which think the state is subservient to America. They think that we must get rid of this ruling system in order to strike the Americans. They think these are all illegitimate Arab regimes."

Church sullied by secret porn film
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3102034.stm
The police studied the film closely and confirmed the church at San Vincenzo was indeed the backdrop to a scene in which a man dressed as a priest has sex with a bride.

The priest who had approved the shoot said he had been told by the film crew that the church was to be used for a wedding scene.

Pana Wave member dies after submersion in creek
http://news.japantoday.com/e/?content=news&cat=1&id=272347
FUKUI — A member of the Pana Wave Laboratory cult-like group died Friday in a hospital to which he was taken after being found unconscious in a creek in the city of Fukui earlier in the morning, firefighters said.

Disneyland 'Gay Day' Controversy Headed to Court
http://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0027756.cfm
As Disneyland prepares to host another park full of homosexuals for its Oct. 4 "Gay Day" event, a man who flies a plane towing banners would like to offer a message of hope overhead. But he has to go to court to do it.

At issue is an almost one-of-kind Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) no-fly regulation.

"(Disney is) the only commercial enterprise other than the Valdez terminal for the Alaska Oil Pipeline that has a no-fly zone," explained Brian Fahling, lead trial attorney for the American Family Association Law Center. Fahling represents Sandy Skolnick, who wants to tow a banner reading "Hope for homosexuals; Jesus Christ" over Disneyland during "Gay Day."

Yahweh

12th September 2003, 10:13 PM

Originally posted by Yahzi
Erm... isn't the Old Testament pretty much chock-full of killing in the name of religion?

Ya can't blame the Muslims for actually reading their holy books...
The Old Testament is filled some of the funniest stuff you will ever read in your life. It glorifies genocide in the name of God, puts down women, oh and the family values cant be beat!

I dont blame the Muslims for reading their fairytales but "Dont kill people to prove a point because there is an hyptothetical chance your actions might be considered justifyable" is commonsense.

Now, the majority of Muslims are good people, they are not out to dominate the world with their faith... but every so often you get an extremist bunch of idiots who go and ruin the whole game for everyone.

Now, call me crazy but I might just consider some religions that command you to kill in the name of your faith (Christianity and Islam to name the big ones) to be "bad religions". There is no way take some of those stories as anything but literal, but aside from that I consider religions that command you to kill in the name of faith to have "bad morality". Hell, Lord of the Rings teaches me better morals than the bible...

Maybe its just me, but I stick by what I said: killing in the name of religion, I cant think of anything more godawful stupid than that...

evildave

14th September 2003, 01:37 AM

Seminar tackles sexual violence in religions
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2003/09/14/2003067782
The Garden of Hope Foundation yesterday held a seminar on religion-related sexual violence, inviting representatives from the government and the legal profession as well as Buddhist, Christian and Catholic groups to discuss ways to handle sexual violence within the religious groups.

The foundation pointed out that within religious groups the preachers and their followers often are not equals.

Preachers could therefore use the belief system and their teachings as an excuse to violate their followers, who have been conditioned to believe what preachers say was correct.

Who'd have guessed?

9/11 forced thousands of Pakistanis to leave NY
http://www.hipakistan.com/en/detail.php?newsId=en38314&F_catID=&f_type=source
Since 9/11, according to the Pakistani embassy, the New York area Pakistani community has lost some 10,000 of its estimated 120,000 residents-many of them fleeing America in pursuit of liberty and opportunity elsewhere.
“This country betrayed us,” says Syed, who, like most Midwood residents who spoke to the Voice, requested that his last name not be used. “Why did I leave my country, my relatives, my home?” he asks, leaning over the counter of a five-and-dime on the community’s main thoroughfare, Coney Island Avenue, where he has been working for 18 years. “Because over there is no freedom, and over here is much more freedom. But not now. Over here is no more freedom.” On the eve of the second anniversary of the WTC attacks, Midwood feels like a shtetl bracing for another imminent pogrom.

Arrests reveal Pakistan army support for terrorists
http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/international.cfm?id=1015702003
THE arrests of Pakistani military officers possibly linked to former Taliban and al-Qaeda operatives just before the second anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attacks are the first visible signs of latent support for extremists within the country’s military.

The officers hailed mostly from the Northwest Frontier Province, a stronghold of Pakistan’s religious parties that are sympathetic to the Taliban and al-Qaeda. These parties have led a movement to force Pervez Musharraf to give up either his presidency or the post of army chief.

Judge Moore for governor?
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34350
As you know, a federal judge ruled that the monument violates the hypothetical separation of church and state – the ominous phrase lifted from an obscure letter written by Thomas Jefferson that has been manipulated, exaggerated and embellished by those who wish to exterminate religious expression from the American public square. The U.S. Supreme Court then declined – quite timidly, I believe – to hear Chief Justice Moore's appeal of that ruling.

Such a touching tribute from Jerry Falwell.

Yahweh

14th September 2003, 01:49 AM

Evildave, this is no doubt the greatest and funniest thread in the Religion and Philosophy forum.

This thread deserves an award for simply being Awesomely Cynical...

Too bad I've already added my 5 stars...

evildave

14th September 2003, 09:37 AM

Aww, shucks!

Fired Paramedic Alleges Religious Discrimination
http://www.family.org/cforum/fnif/news/a0027697.cfm
"One day she was talking with a co-worker, and she invited the co-worker to attend her church, and when the employer found out . . . the employer contacted Sherry and terminated her without ever giving her any second chance," said Staver, who is representing Lambert in her lawsuit against the ambulance company, MedStarOne.

Now this one just pissed me off, just for the litiguous end of things. Can't people simply decline an invitation?

There aren't any details here. Was she leaning on everyone around her, every day, like a born-again fundy in a laundromat, or was this simply an isolated "Hey, want to come to church?" invitation with merely social overtones, as the article implies? The site is a *bit* religiously biased, after all. Hard to say.

Pastor accused of heresy sees climate of intolerance
http://www.courier-journal.com/localnews/2003/09/09ky/met-3-benke0909-4346.html
A Lutheran pastor tried for heresy for praying alongside members of other religions in a post-Sept. 11 memorial service in New York two years ago told a gathering of Protestant ministers in Louisville yesterday that a climate of intolerance was poisoning the atmosphere in his and other denominations.

Isn't that cute? Get those lines of intolerance stirring! We can't have two Christians getting along with each other in America anymore, yet we believe we can dictate "tolerance" and "freedom" to people overseas.

The Matrix of Ignorance
http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp09132003.html
Ignorance, racism and Islamophobia are linked; those who can't find Iraq on a map are unlikely to know that the Arab and Muslim worlds are highly complex, or that to vent post-9-11 emotions on those whole worlds just doesn't make any sense. But their ignorance is of course not altogether their own fault; when Lou Dobb so stupidly told them last year that Iraq was a "radical Islamist" country, he sounded convincing enough, and most CNN viewers weren't prone to go onto the Internet or to the local library to check his facts and realize that Saddam was ideologically poles apart from al-Qaeda. Fact is, such "Islamists" as bin Laden hate Saddam, who for better or worse forbade religious proselytizing, funded Christian, Shiite, and Sunni religious establishments (and even the Baghdad synagogue) and pursued a policy of strict separation of religion and state.

More of the lowest common denominator at work.

Al-Qaida: Riyadh attack 'opening shot'
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34504
"Anyone who fights [the Muslim regimes] is in effect fighting the one who has given them authority and made them rulers over the Muslims," says the preface to the book, "The Raid of the 11th of Rabi' Al-Awwal – The Eastern Riyadh Operation and Our War on America and Its Agents."

The book names Muslim regimes as legitimate targets for jihad, according to Islamic law, such as the Pervez Musharraf government in Pakistan, the King Fahd government in Saudi Arabia and the Ali Abdallah Saleh regime in Yemen.
Aww, look! Al-Qaida is self-destructing! Who'd have guessed these retarded losers would get around to trying to destabilize the very nations that helped spawn them?

Reverend Arrested During Ten Commandments Protest
http://www.click2houston.com/news/2422499/detail.html
HOUSTON -- A Grace Baptist Church pastor was arrested with more than 20 people Wednesday for refusing to leave a Montgomery, Ala., judicial building.

Reverend Arthur Allen, the leader of the House of Prayer church, is due in DeKalb County court at 2 p.m. Allen will meet with Judge T. Jackson Bedford, who will decide if Allen's probation should be revoked. If it is, Allen faces up to 10 years in prison.

Downright wussy, if you ask me. Ever see the video (http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9710/31/pepper.spray.update/) of what the cops did to the tree huggers in California who handcuffed themselves together in a congressman's office? (The link has a video link.)

They deliberately applied pepper spray in a gelatinous form directly to these kids' eyeballs with cotton swabs!

These fundies don't even rate pepper spray? Heck, it's cheap! About $10 will get you enough to soak a whole school full of kids!

If these religious guys are REALLY serious, I'm sure they could chain themselves together with their arms in pipes and get some good video of their own... but of course that would never happen. People who chain themselves up in a single congressman's office because thay want to preserve a forest from being turned into tract housing and additional urban sprawl in California are "radicals", while people who block traffic and access to civic buildings and disrupt court proceedings over a dumb hunk of rock in Alabama are "On A Sacred Mission From God" (TM).

...
A DeKalb County judge convicted Allen, along with two of his parishioners, Sharon Duncan and David Duncan, last January on charges of aggravated assault and cruelty to children. The charges stemmed from the whipping of two boys in front of the House of Prayer congregation in 2001.

Along with a glimpse into the caliber of people who are doing this protesting.

Real winners!

Oh, isn't it nice to have the vanguard of the fight to install theocracy in America so perfectly represented by child abusers and retarded blowhard judges who who can't even understand where laws come from? Oh wait, that latter "can't even understand where laws come from" category does represent the majority of American citizens.

Better get cracking. It seems the frothing-in-the-mouth-type Baptists (not to be confused with the moderate ones) want the job as supreme theocratic leaders of the Holy States of God. I guess the ignorant masses will have to choose them and live with the consequences.

Alabama must be so proud.

Texas, too. That's where Rev. Allen is facing the parole violation.

evildave

15th September 2003, 12:02 AM

Unruly passenger on flight from Hawaii subdued with duct tape
http://www.cjonline.com/stories/091503/pag_flight.shtml
http://www.startribune.com/stories/484/4096941.html
http://www.canada.com/news/world/story.asp?id=B2F11BE1-CCFB-4420-8E92-61275CC53E4D
PASSENGERS and an air marshal subdued and then duct-taped a man who was pacing the aisle and reading loudly from the Bible during a flight from Hawaii, police and witnesses said.

1,000,002 uses for duct tape.

And you thought the passenger next to you was annoying?

Man Convicted In Satanic Sexual Assault Ritual
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/2479941/detail.html
An Oxford man faces sentencing next month after being convicted Thursday of luring boys into satanic sexual encounters.

Robert Basat, 50, was found guilty in Oakland County Circuit Court of five counts of first-degree criminal sexual conduct, one count of second-degree criminal sexual conduct and child sexually abusive material.

Jordan's dilemma over 'honour killings'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3094736.stm
"A woman is like an olive tree. When its branch catches woodworm, it has to be chopped off so that society stays clean and pure."

So declared one tribal leader when pressed on the issue of "honour killings" in Jordan, where approximately every two weeks a woman is killed by a male relative because of the shame she has brought upon her family by an alleged sexual transgression - "sins" which include being raped.

Her killer will, on average, receive a sentence of some six months' imprisonment.

Latest efforts to impose a harsher penalty on men who kill their daughters and sisters suffered a fresh setback in parliament this week, after deputies refused to sanction an amendment to the penal code.

The day after parliament sat, three brothers hacked to death their two sisters with axes "to cleanse the family honour".

Woman beaten by nuns attacks probe into abuse
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,1041780,00.html
The embattled Laffoy Commission into child abuse sent a victim subjected to 15 years of beatings and humiliations by nuns for counselling to a nun.

May Henderson, who was sent to the notorious Goldenbridge orphanage at the age of two, described the commission's decision as 'the final insult after a childhood of abuse'.

Speaking publicly for the first time about her time at Goldenbridge, the London-based pensioner accused the government-backed commission of being 'totally insensitive' towards victims like her.

Buckets Of Human Waste Found In Woman's Condo
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2465420/detail.html
AURORA, Colo. -- Investigators in Aurora are looking into a strange case at a home on South Salida Way. The Arapahoe County Sheriff's Office told 7NEWS it was trying to evict an elderly woman from a foreclosed home when they went inside and discovered dozens of buckets filled with what is believed to be human waste.
...
Some of the woman's neighbors said that because she did not have running water in her condo unit, she was forced to use an orange ice bucket and other containers as makeshift latrines. Another neighbor said that a detective told him that the woman explained that God told her to collect urine and feces.

So, you think every sperm is sacred? GOD ALMIGHTY has told this woman to collect trash and her, uh, other "output"!

So, if you truly believe, you should, uh, bring a bucket with you into the bathroom and refrigerate it (That was where she kept it!) when you're done.

God says so.

Leif Roar

15th September 2003, 04:01 AM

Originally posted by evildave

Jordan's dilemma over 'honour killings'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3094736.stm

It's strange how you left out the only paragraphs that actually dealt with religion in that article:

It is widely agreed that the root and cause of honour killing is a complex, historical phenomenon which has no justification in Islam's holy book, the Koran, and which has also been known to occur elsewhere in the world and among other religions.

Nonetheless, it is the insistence within Islamic culture of the need to preserve women's purity - and the disgrace that any stain on this purity may bring upon the family - that appears to be making it so tough in Jordan to stamp out the crime and to bring their perpetrators to court on murder charges.

"Honour-killings" occurs in some Islamic regions, but is not a general feature of the Islamic religion.

(Edited to fix quoting)

Abdul Alhazred

15th September 2003, 06:06 AM

Originally posted by Zep
There's very few people in this group - it seems to be the same faces turning up again and again. Sometimes there were only one or two people at each "protest". So I would be willing to estimate there are less than two dozen actual "members" of this "congregation" all up.

I'm not sure how many, but they are all members of his immediate family or married to them.

Brown

15th September 2003, 07:16 AM

From the Des Moines Register: (http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/22252337.html)Officials say Iowa couple aided ritual child abuse
The couple - Michael and Juliette La Brecque, ages 44 and 45, respectively - followed the teachings of Allen Harrod, a California man who claimed to have established his own fundamentalist religion, according to an FBI agent. Three times, authorities allege, the La Brecques flew teenage girls to California, knowing Harrod intended to abuse them.Do not read this article unless you have a strong stomach.

Roadtoad

15th September 2003, 07:45 PM

Originally posted by Brown
From the Des Moines Register: (http://desmoinesregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/22252337.html)Do not read this article unless you have a strong stomach.

Believe it.

The worst part of it for me? The SOBs involved have a direct, local connection.

God, someone get me a f***ing Ginsu...

evildave

16th September 2003, 12:07 AM

Originally posted by Leif Roar

It's strange how you left out the only paragraphs that actually dealt with religion in that article:

"Honour-killings" occurs in some Islamic regions, but is not a general feature of the Islamic religion.

(Edited to fix quoting)

Not strange at all: I can't post the ENTIRE article when I quote it. That would be violating their copyrighted material, and JREF forum guidelines. Either you follow the links and read, or you don't.

Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny occurs in many Christian regions, but is not a general feature of the Christian religion.

It's telling that certain "Good Upstanding Muslims" would NOT ban such killings.

evildave

16th September 2003, 12:15 AM

Hell House Is Back
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2484541/detail.html
THORNTON, Colo. -- "Hell House," the walkthrough morality play that depicted suicide, abortion and AIDS, will return this Halloween as a stage show at a new location.

"Hell House" will be produced at Vision Fellowship Assemblies of God Church in Thornton, the Rev. Ray Smith said Sunday.

"Hell House" was staged at Abundant Life Christian Center in suburban Arvada from 1995 to 2001 but missed last year after the Rev. Keenan Roberts, who developed the idea, left.

Yahweh

16th September 2003, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Hell House Is Back
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2484541/detail.html
Evildave, you missed the funniest part...

From the article:
"Hell House" drew thousands to see harrowing scenes conveying the message that people who had premarital sex or abortions, took drugs, drank or committed suicide were headed for hell.

It launched similar productions across the country. Protesters decried the concept as judgmental and intolerant.
Hey, at least those protesters got the right idea...

Abdul Alhazred

16th September 2003, 12:35 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Hell House Is Back
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2484541/detail.html
THORNTON, Colo. -- "Hell House," the walkthrough morality play that depicted suicide, abortion and AIDS, will return this Halloween as a stage show at a new location.

"Hell House" will be produced at Vision Fellowship Assemblies of God Church in Thornton, the Rev. Ray Smith said Sunday.

"Hell House" was staged at Abundant Life Christian Center in suburban Arvada from 1995 to 2001 but missed last year after the Rev. Keenan Roberts, who developed the idea, left.

I heard a tape of part of this show when it came out. Very creepy, but the man playing the devil taunting the damned souls sure seemed to be enjoying himself.

In Gatlinburg, Tennessee there is (or was) a "Tour Through Hell" show which is a wax museum with dioramas (and Coney Island style special effects) depicting Hell "from a Biblical perspective".

Lakes of fire, roasting sinners, the whole bit. I don't think anybody there was taking it seriously.

But that's just a business, not an allegedly serious attempt at evangelization.

Leif Roar

16th September 2003, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by evildave

It's telling that certain "Good Upstanding Muslims" would NOT ban such killings.

Only if you assume that they would ban such killings if only they weren't "good upstanding muslims." I feel that labelling it as "ugly religion" is going light on a very serious issue and will only help to advance the typical misunderstanding that honour killings are a religious phenomena - which will, in my opinion, make it harder to properly deal with the issue.

evildave

16th September 2003, 11:30 PM

Are you implying that religion and culture are divorced from each other? A religion that makes women second class citizens and/or property, that has nothing AT ALL to do with it?

Especially when religion is universalle prescribed as the ultimate "moralizer", yet it allows this sort of nonsense to continue, when it has all the political power necessary in these nations to ban it?

In a word: Bull.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/world/Viewdet.asp?ID=1112&cat=b
'Karo-Kari' or Honor killing, a traditional, feudal custom which still continues whereby couples found in, or more often merely suspected of, adulterous relationship are summarily done to death by the family members themselves. Thousands of Pakistani women and girls are stabbed, burned or maimed every year by husbands, fathers or brothers who believe they have brought them dishonor by being unfaithful, seeking a divorce, eloping with a boyfriend or refusing to marry a man chosen by the family. The practice seems to be spreading from rural areas into the city, claiming an estimated2 , 100victims last year including girls, as young as3 - 10years, despite outspoken denunciation from both political and religious leaders.

They cite around 5000 of these killings worldwide, and over 2100 in Pakistan last year.

evildave

16th September 2003, 11:58 PM

It was a mistake: Bali bomber
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/15/1063478124637.html
Remorseful terrorist Ali Imron had become "the star and idol of the Bali bombing case", his lawyers said yesterday, as the accused admitted he had made "a big mistake" in carrying out the October 12 attacks and asked for a light penalty.

While taking responsibility for his actions, Imron attacked his fellow terrorists' argument that the bombings were part of jihad, saying the attack broke at least four rules for holy war.

Aww, he's sorry! That makes it all better.

Mountaintop 9/11 flag destroyed
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36~53~1634583,00.html
But apparently sometime on Saturday, someone set the day-old, 10-by-15-foot flag ablaze, bent the pole and left a typewritten note condemning the U.S. war in Iraq, according to Summit County Sheriff Joe Morales. A hiker discovered the burned flag Sunday and reported it to Kizer, who notified Morales' office.

"This was more than just simple vandalism. Whoever perpetrated this appears to either support (the terrorist attacks of) 9/11 or is just anti-American. It is very concerning," said Morales, who notified the FBI's counterterrorism task force about the incident and launched a criminal investigation. "We have to look into these things seriously."

Yup. There you go. Burning a dyed piece of fabric is considered sinister "terrorism".

Pat Robertson prays that Hurricane Isabel will turn away
http://www.wtvm.com/Global/story.asp?S=1444935
Virginia Beach, Virginia-AP -- The Reverend Pat Robertson, whose Christian Broadcasting Network could be hit by Hurricane Isabel, has asked God to turn the storm away from Virginia Beach and the U-S East Coast.

Some more of that famous Christian weather control. If it doesn't hit, it's a "miracle". If it hits and they sustain no damage, it's a "miracle". If it hits and their building falls down, God has shown them they should move to a new office. It's a "miracle".

Leif Roar

17th September 2003, 02:33 AM

Originally posted by evildave
Are you implying that religion and culture are divorced from each other? A religion that makes women second class citizens and/or property, that has nothing AT ALL to do with it?

No, I'm saying that the issue of "honour killings" are not primarily a religious issue, and it is wrong to treat it as one. Incidentally, the BBC article you originally quoted said much the same thing, which is why I felt you had failed to quote the most relevant parts of the article.

Especially when religion is universalle prescribed as the ultimate "moralizer", yet it allows this sort of nonsense to continue, when it has all the political power necessary in these nations to ban it?

In a word: Bull.

Religion is not the only social force, nor necessarily the strongest one, and I've never claimed it was either. One might as well blame Christianity for the continued use of the death penalty in many US states.

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/world/Viewdet.asp?ID=1112&cat=b

They cite around 5000 of these killings worldwide, and over 2100 in Pakistan last year.

Yes, but the paragraph you quoted did not in any way claim it was a religious issue. Rather it called it a "traditional, feudal custom" which was spreading despite "outspoken denounciation by ... religious leaders."

(Edited to fix bold fonts)

Yahzi

17th September 2003, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by Leif Roar
One might as well blame Christianity for the continued use of the death penalty in many US states.
Er, I can't speak for EvilDave, but I suspect he would.

Nothing is funnier than watching the same person demonstrate at a pro-life rally one day and a pro-execution rally the next.

The Catholics are at least consistent, but this isn't a Catholic country.

That said, I agree with you. Even the Islamcists acknowledge that honour killings are not Quranical. This particular issue is just men behaving badly, not religion. As you pointed out, numerous Islamic religious leaders have condemned the practice.

I think it's kind of a relief to see that Islam really doesn't have any better hold over its people than Christianity does.

Abdul Alhazred

17th September 2003, 01:19 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Yup. There you go. Burning a dyed piece of fabric is considered sinister "terrorism".

Sorry. The act of burning that particular flag is symbolic, as is the flag itself. While not an "act of terrorism" it's not a stretch to hypothesize that it might have been motivated by sympathy with terrorists.

evildave

17th September 2003, 10:28 PM

Abdul Alhazred
Ahh, so people who burn flags in protest of environmental policy are also hypothetically aligned with terrorism?

There's plenty not to like with our "bomb first and make up lots of excuses for it later" foreign policy without aligning one's self with terrorists in any way. Especially when campaign contributors benefit with lucrative contracts.

Leif Roar
Very well.

Priests to reveal child abuse
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/17/1063625085225.html
The Reverend Dr Don Owers, who was one of two Adelaide clergymen who went public in May with claims that up to 200 victims were abused by Anglican church staff over a period of almost four decades, said the proposed laws would be controversial among priests.

Another denomination with a concealed history of child abuse.

Terrorism as a Global Religious Phenomenon
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,1044471,00.html
Ironically, we tend to become like our enemies. In describing his war against terror as a battle between good and evil, President Bush has unwittingly reproduced the rhetoric of Bin Laden, who subscribes to a form of Sunni fundamentalism that divides the world into two diametrically opposed camps in just the same way. The last thing the Israelis intended was to create "Palestinian Zionism", and yet in the early days Israel aided and abetted Hamas, which virulently opposed the secularist ideology of the PLO, in order to undermine Arafat. They should have learned from the tragic fate of Egypt's Anwar Sadat, who, at the beginning of his presidency, sought to create an independent power base by courting the Islamists who eventually killed him.

See, it's not just Islam...

Nuns imprisoned for missile silo protest
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/cctimes/news/6389992.htm
DENVER - Calling them "dangerously irresponsible," a federal judge sentenced three nuns to at least 21/2 years in prison Friday for vandalizing a nuclear missile silo during an anti-war protest last fall.
http://courttv-web1.courttv.com/people/2003/0725/nuns_ap.html
President "Bush has said weapons of mass destruction are horrible and I agree," she said. "We haven't found any in Iraq, but we sure have lot of them here."

This one's not so bad, per se. Just interesting.

Abdul Alhazred

17th September 2003, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by evildave
Abdul Alhazred
Ahh, so people who burn flags in protest of environmental policy are also hypothetically aligned with terrorism?

If the intention was to frighten ("terrorize") people who live around where it happened, why not? I don't say allied with some international organization.

evildave

17th September 2003, 10:56 PM

How could such a thing "frighten" people?

Piss off, annoy, stit up, etc., yes.

"Terrorize"?

Push over a flag pole that's a "four hour hike" away, and "desecrate" a piece of fabric. Nobody killed. Nobody injured. Nobody even threatened.

Ooh, scarey!

Apparently, nobody saw the fire/smoke to even be concerned about a brush fire.

Here's an even better scenario than "terrorists": How about someone with a right-wing agenda goes up and does it so they can do a little well-planned rabble-rousing? Maybe get a little all-American militia action going?

Oh wait. That could be terrorists, after all.

Never mind.

evildave

18th September 2003, 10:54 PM

Violence needed to fight terror: Buddha's man of peace
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/18/1063625159989.html
The Dalai Lama, a Nobel peace prize winner and one of the world's most prominent advocates of non-violence, says it might be necessary to fight terrorists with violence.

He also says it is too early to say whether the war in Iraq was a mistake. "I feel only history will tell," he said in an interview.

"Terrorism is the worst kind of violence, so we have to check it, we have to take countermeasures," the Dalai Lama said.

School unbowed by religious threats
http://icberkshire.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0300reading/content_objectid=13422745_method=full_siteid=50102 _headline=-School-unbowed-by-religious-threats-name_page.html
Just days before a family fun day and car boot sale was due to be held, volunteers at Blessed Hugh Faringdon School were forced to cancel the event, after threats of violence against the organisers because it was being held on a Sunday.

Head teacher Paul Barras said: "The whole thing was undermined by a crank - the woman organising it received a letter threatening her."

The day should have helped raise funds for the school's bid to become a specialist college, part of a big expansion plan by staff and governors.

Japanese court upholds death sentence for Aum cult 'combatant'
http://sg.news.yahoo.com/030918/1/3e9jq.html
A Japanese high court upheld a death sentence to a former Aum Supreme Truth sect member and martial arts expert for his part in 10 murders including victims of a 1994 nerve gas attack.

Police say man used Bible to justify sex with girls
http://www.rgj.com/news/stories/html/2003/09/17/51935.php?sp1=rgj&sp2=News&sp3=Local+News&sp5=RGJ.com&sp6=news&sp7=local_news
A search of Raymond George’s residence revealed evidence of child sexual abuse, including evidence that he believed the teenagers were his “wives” and that he was living in a “cult-like” environment, said Sgt. Kim Bradshaw.

“George used his interpretation of the Bible to convince these people that this was all OK in the eyes of God,” Bradshaw said.

The sexual abuse had been going on for at least a year, she said.

Accused Priest Resigns
http://www.onnnews.com/story.php?record=26772
A priest accused of sexually abusing girls at a Roman Catholic high school in suburban Cincinnati in the late 1970s and 1980s has resigned as pastor of a Troy church.

Yahzi

19th September 2003, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by evildave
[b]Violence needed to fight terror: Buddha's man of peace
Once again the Dali Lama demonstrates that empirical reason is more important than ideology.

Yahzi

19th September 2003, 01:34 PM

Here's one:

Church slams Chile divorce plans
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3122310.stm

The Roman Catholic archbishop Francisco Errazuriz said divorce would threaten the family and undermine the sanctity of marriage.

Chile is one of the only two democratic countries in the world, along with Malta, that does not allow divorce.
See, just because the rest of the free world has divorce, doesn't at all refute the notion that divorce will destroy your family and ruin the state.

He also said there should never be any persecution of political opponents and violations of human rights.
Ah... but he thinks the State should enforce his vision of no sex without marriage and no way out of marriage.

Is hypocrisy natural to these people, or is it acquired in some kind of Cardinal training school?

evildave

20th September 2003, 11:38 AM

Nigerian troops curb religious violence
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/1532639.stm
Troops are enforcing a dusk-to-dawn curfew in the central Nigerian city of Jos, where at least 10 people have died in clashes between Christians and Muslims.

Thousands of residents fled in terror as rival gangs of Christian and Muslim youths armed with guns, machetes and other weapons set up roadblocks and stopped cars.

Kids rescued from rebels
http://www.news24.com/News24/Africa/News/0,,2-11-1447_1419145,00.html
Kampala - The Ugandan army said Saturday that it had rescued 83 children from rebels of the Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) who had kidnapped them from villages in the north and northeast over the past few months.

Some of the children, who were rescued on Friday, had slashes on their bodies which appeared to have been inflicted with machetes or axes, army spokesperson Lieutenant Chris Magezi told AFP by telelphone from the northern town of Lira.

He Was the Finest, the LRA Killed Him
http://allafrica.com/stories/200309190687.html
A week ago the terrorists of Joseph Kony's so-called Lord's Resistance Army (LRA) reduced this exceptional teacher to another statistic of their murderous savagery. As thousands of mourners sat sullen-faced, with tear-soaked eyes, at his funeral in the outskirts of Katakwi town, the pain was palpable.

Epel's death symbolised the LRA's killing of education in Katakwi since the terrorists entered the district in mid-June. The dedicated teacher died trying to salvage whatever was left of the ruined dreams of his pupils.

With schools in Kapelbyong closed, Epel championed an initiative to transfer displaced pupils, especially P.7 candidates, to study in the much safer Katakwi town in preparation for their final exams in a month's time.

He and half a dozen other people died when a landmine the terrorists planted hit a truck he was travelling in to go and retrieve scholastic materials from his school at Akore.

Terror fight
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/world/story/0,4386,210663,00.html
In Egypt, a tough line against terror has led the once feared Gamaa Islamiya group to renouce violence... But, in Saudi Arabia, doubts remain whether rulers will stamp out the radicals

Yahzi

20th September 2003, 12:08 PM

http://allafrica.com/stories/200309190687.html

The message is very clear, not just to Kony but also more importantly to his backers in Khartoum and other places: You can terrorise some people sometimes, but you cannot terrorise all the people all the time.
Apparently AllAfrica.com agrees with me that the LRA is getting support from outside forces.

The article goes on to praise the efforts of a self-defense militia group which apparently was opposed by other political parties, or possibly the army (I'm not sure what the UPC is), and of course the Catholic Archbishop.

I'm not sure I am in favor of distributing more guns, but the army clearly isn't protecting these people, so as an American I can hardly fault them for taking up arms to defend themselves.

I can't believe the LRA still exists: I can't believe that we lack the political willpower to extinguish something that is relatively small (25k troops or so) and yet unspeakably evil.

Edit: More on the Arrow Group militia:

http://allafrica.com/stories/200308220155.html

Apparently the army wants their help, but the ciivl government is afraid of warlords and of the army not providing death benefits to the families of the militia.

I like this quote from the Chief of Military Intelligence, Col. Noble Mayombo:

"We have to involve the locals because of the kind of conflict in the north. We are not fighting a conventional war but an insurgency where the LRA target schools and homes. Even Russia, the US and Israel cannot effectively protect their citizens against terrorism. So we have to use the locals as well," he said.

evildave

20th September 2003, 09:01 PM

I see L.R.A., Judge Moore too
I see Dubya lie to me and you
And I think to myself, "What a buggered up world!"

I see U.S.A. Patriot Act
The R.I.A.A. sues someone's cat
And I think to myself, "What a buggered up world!"

The contrails of the bombers, so pretty in the sky
is that people cheering for other people to die
I see angry people, who hate me and you too
they're really saying I hate you

I hear babies dying, I watch fires glow
Television makes it a fine show
And I think to myself, "What a buggered up world!"
Yes I think to myself, "What a buggered up world!"

- With apologies to Louis Armstrong

evildave

21st September 2003, 11:26 AM

Taliban men flee religious school siege
http://www.bangkokpost.com/News/20Sep2003_news33.html
Sharan _ Several dozen Taliban fighters escaped a siege by government troops in a religious school with the help of locals in violence-wracked eastern Afghanistan overnight, a police chief said yesterday.

``The local population provided them passage and they managed to flee on Thursday evening,'' Daulat Khan, chief of police in Paktika province, said.

Blind to the Spirit: How the Media Treat Religion
http://www.zenit.org/english/visualizza.phtml?sid=41242
Fairly long one, mostly opinion, but any little blurb I'd take out of it would be out of context. It's interesting that they stress the "spiritual" end of things that the media misses because of their focus on "political" things. Maybe if more religious people would take their favorite religion OUT of politics, they wouldn't get this "treatment".

Somers church rocked by scandal
http://www.news12.com/WC/topstories/article?id=90909
James is accused of having "an inappropriate relationship" with a female parishioner and the scandal has rocked the Episcopal community. James is accused of violating two church laws regarding relationships with members. The church calls the suspension a "temporary inhibition."

Expert Panel to Finger Nations Fuelling War in Congo
http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=20232
Five foreign armies -- those of Rwanda, Uganda, Namibia, Zimbabwe, and Angola -- have been involved at various times either in the DRC's six-year-old civil war or in the illegal exploitation of mineral resources, or both.
...
"The plundering of the country's natural resources will continue to fuel the conflict in the Congo and the entire region,'' he added.

Odima said the Security Council should pressure both President Yoweri Museveni (of Uganda) and President Paul Kagame (of Rwanda) to stop fuelling the conflict and to end the looting of Congo's natural resources.

Here's a reason why Uganda can't do anything about the LRA: They're too busy meddling in their neighbor's affairs.

MOURNERS FACED SWORD TERROR
http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=66056&command=displayContent&sourceNode=65583&contentPK=7107956
The Reverend Graham Burton was holding a service for 30 bereaved people when a former parishioner, Craig Morrell, burst in with a weapon which resembled a Samurai sword. The attack was the climax of a bizarre catalogue of events, as Legal Affairs Correspondent REBECCA SHERDLEY reports

After his parents were killed in a car crash, Craig Morrell turned for help to the Rev Graham Burton.

A touching story.

Experts warn of Saudi Arabia nuclear threat
http://www.scotlandonsunday.com/international.cfm?id=1049222003
THE prospect of Saudi Arabia building a nuclear arsenal raises a nightmare scenario in the Middle East, experts said last night.

According to a report last week, the Saudi government is considering three options, one of which is to acquire a nuclear deterrent. The other choices are to maintain or enter into an alliance with an existing nuclear power that would offer protection, or to try to reach a regional agreement on a nuclear-free Middle East, according to a leaked Saudi government strategy document.

Tom Lehrer's Who's next? comes to mind.

Yahzi

22nd September 2003, 02:12 AM

Turn off your irony meter before reading this one:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/20/suit_says_churches_deceiving_faithful/

The Catholic Church is suing another church for claiming to be Catholic, and decieving people with fake holy water. :roll:

evildave

22nd September 2003, 09:14 PM

I wonder if the "fake" church practiced the same sort of rituals as the "real" Boston church?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2001738909_catholicsuits21m.html

Of course, they have to make up that revenue somehow. Best to attack other churches. They probably believe they own other trademarks... maybe they can sue every other Christian for pretending to be Christian?

Family Sues Priest, Church Over Son's Death
http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2503535/detail.html
PHILADELPHIA -- The parents of a University of Pittsburgh football player from Maryland who died after he fell through a church ceiling have filed a lawsuit against a priest accused of giving the teen alcohol in the hours before his death.

Billy Gaines, 19, of Ijamsville, Md., died in June while attending a cookout at a Catholic church in western Pennsylvania that was hosted by the Reverend Henry Krawczyk (pictured, right).

Robertson group sues Hueneme schools
http://www.insidevc.com/vcs/state/article/0,1375,VCS_122_2256763,00.html
District Superintendent Jerry Dannenberg denied officials were biased against Harley because his organization, Pacific Camps, promotes Christianity. He said they were unaware the programs were religious in the first place.

He added that Harley was permitted to distribute one flier a year, while his requests to distribute more were denied.

"Why should he have public access to kids to raise funds for his own business?" Dannenberg asked. "I think we have a problem when we expect our schools to act as an advertising agency."

Jury Selection to Begin in Case of Decapitated Children
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAPCZTXVKD.html
All three children were stabbed and suffocated; one also had more than 20 stab wounds, and another had broken ribs and vertebrae, autopsy reports showed.

Police said the couple told them they killed the children because they were destitute and because Camacho thought the children were possessed.

Feds find smuggling ring in Amish community
http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/09/22/smuggling.ring.ap/index.html
CLEVELAND, Ohio (AP) -- A smuggling ring operated for several months in Ohio's largest Amish community, transporting hundreds of illegal immigrants from Mexico and Guatemala, investigators said.

Three Guatemalan men admitted in federal court in recent weeks that they packed undocumented people in vans and hauled them to Ohio, where they sought work in Amish communities.

For months, translators helped illegal immigrants lie on identification forms at the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles in Holmes County, prosecutors said. The State Highway Patrol began investigating when bureau employees became overwhelmed by the number of people seeking help.

Actor accused of anti-Semitism
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/20/actor_accused_of_anti_semitism/
Foxman called the comment "classical conspiracy that the Jews out there are plotting in conspiratorial ways on all sorts of things."

Gibson also expressed regret about editing out of the movie a passage from the Gospel of Matthew that reads, "His blood be on us, and on our children." That passage is among the sources for the belief that Jews are collectively guilty for Jesus' death.

Gibson, referring to his critics, told the magazine: "If I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come kill me."

Barkhorn1x

23rd September 2003, 09:54 AM

...is Mel an anti-semite or isn't he??

"Abraham Foxman, national director of the Jewish civil rights organization, insisted he was not calling Gibson an anti-Semite. But Foxman said the actor "entertains views that can only be described as anti-Semitic."

Come on man - don't straddle the damn fence.

:rolleyes:

Is it just me or is Mr. Foxman looking for an issue here? Can Mel's views ONLY be described as anti-semetic or can they be in response to the ADL's strident attacks on a movie that it hasn't even seen yet?

It seems that - sometimes - the charge of anti-semitism (like that of white racism) is thrown out there all too readily by people who want to styfle honest debate.

Thoughts?

Barkhorn.

Yahweh

23rd September 2003, 05:48 PM

Jury Selection to Begin in Case of Decapitated Children
http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAPCZTXVKD.html

-----------------------------------------------------
All three children were stabbed and suffocated; one also had more than 20 stab wounds, and another had broken ribs and vertebrae, autopsy reports showed.

Police said the couple told them they killed the children because they were destitute and because Camacho thought the children were possessed.
-----------------------------------------------------

I think I'm pretty well justified in saying "HOLY S**T!"...

Next thing you know that couple will claim evil demons put those thoughts inside their head... that must be it, there the whole thing all better now... Forgive and forget, am I right?

evildave

23rd September 2003, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by Barkhorn1x

It seems that - sometimes - the charge of anti-semitism (like that of white racism) is thrown out there all too readily by people who want to styfle honest debate.

Thoughts?

Barkhorn.

You know, even kidding around like this is likely to promote some eyebrow raising.
Gibson, referring to his critics, told the magazine: "If I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house, they'd come kill me."

Seems he's either making a very poor joke, or sincerely believes "The Jews" will come kill him.

I don't get inflection from the text, nor do I get full context for that statement.

evildave

23rd September 2003, 07:13 PM

'Demons' robber jailed for 6 years
http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/hi/news/5019493.html
Henry was jailed for six years after admitting to the incident, which has left Sarah petrified to open the front door.
Richard Lobjoie, defending, said: "He had been taking crack cocaine at the time of this offence and said he had demons in his head."

Witness: God Gave Christy Edgar Idea to Tie Up Children as Form of Discipline
http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=1454174&nav=1PuZI97W
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/breaking_news/6841505.htm
OLATHE, Kan. (AP) -- Siblings of a 9-year-old boy who suffocated while wrapped mummy-style in duct tape described for a jury how they, too, were sometimes tied up overnight for stealing food and water.

Murder accused 'heard voice of God telling him to kill'
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3525196&thesection=news&thesubsection=general
A man on trial for murder believed he heard the voice of God tell him to kill, a psychiatrist told the High Court in Rotorua yesterday.

The 35-year-old accused, whose name is suppressed, is charged with murdering John Rogers, 52, in the public toilets at Tauranga's Warepai Domain on July 28 last year.

He has admitted killing Mr Rogers by stabbing him with a knife but denied murder on the grounds of insanity.

Man who killed his six children feels no shame
http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030923.wquat_lm0923/BNStory/Front/
“God has not seen it necessary that I carry shame with my burden,” he said. “I am sorry that my children are dead.”

'Spirit of Satan' may be considered by U. S. Supreme Court
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/09/19/3f6a6257e5713
In the letter, Swinton said a church conference should be called to "propose that Jane Kliebenstein be stripped of church offices. It is understood that if she continues to cause dissension, she will next be asked to leave the Shell Rock UMC."

The letter also said the congregation had "allowed the spirit of Satan to work in their midst."

The case was thrown out by the Butler County District Court because the court did not want to get involved in a church matter.

Satan worshiper gets death in killings of 3
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/09/13/loc_oh-deathsentence13.html
Ferguson, a 230-pound former high school wrestler who says he worships Satan, read a letter that angered relatives of the victims who had packed the courtroom.

Ferguson said he killed the victims intentionally, maliciously and hopes they burn in Hell. "If I was free to go back in society, I'd pick up where I left off," Ferguson said.

Ferguson was convicted of the Dec. 26, 2001, death of Thomas King, a 61-year-old man on crutches; and the deaths the next day of Arlie Fugate, 68, and his wife, Mae, 69. The murders occurred on the city's east side, about a mile apart.

Bus turns over on I-94
http://www.thetimesonline.com/articles/2003/09/21/news/top_news/c7c1348658a5cd0386256da8000dc256.txt
SOUTH HOLLAND -- A bus filled with 45 Hyles-Anderson College coeds heading to Chicago to do missionary work rolled onto its side and skidded about 25 feet before coming to a stop on Interstate 94 near 159th Street about 10 a.m. Saturday.

As a result of the accident, 35 of the women were taken to six area hospitals, and all but three were released by Saturday night, said college co-president Ray Young.

Young said he had not been able to speak with the bus driver, but Illinois State Police Trooper Mike Karpinski said the driver had reported that "passengers were standing in the aisle, singing and rocking back and forth," causing him to lose control of the bus.

This made me remember a song...

class: throw over grandpa cause he's getting pretty old
throw out the baby, or we'll all be catching it's cold.
throw over fatty and we'll see if she can float
throw out the retard, and they won't be rocking the boat.
http://www.renc.igs.net/~adt/qrstuv/songs/fritz/track08.html

Barkhorn1x

24th September 2003, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by evildave

You know, even kidding around like this is likely to promote some eyebrow raising.

Yes, it would appear that some people want to limit discussion to what they think is "appropriate".

Seems he's either making a very poor joke, or sincerely believes "The Jews" will come kill him.

I don't get inflection from the text, nor do I get full context for that statement.

If it's the former then his joke was perhaps a tad "insensitive", if the latter then he is an ignorant ass. I've got to give the guy the benefit of the doubt here as there is just not enough info. from which to draw a definitive conclusion.

Finally;

[QUOTE]Foxman has argued for months that the portrayal of Jews in the events leading to the crucifixion will promote anti-Semitism.[QUOTE]

Yea sure.
:rolleyes:

Are there really all of these quasi-anti-semites out there just waiting to see a movie about the crucifixion of Jesus - in Aramaic no less - before they become full fledged raging Jew haters?? I don't think so.

By this logic the Holocaust should not be discussed either.

Barkhorn.

evildave

24th September 2003, 11:35 PM

Man Says God Told Him to Kill
http://www.katv.com/news/stories/0903/103870.html
Jonesboro (AP) - A man on trial in Jonesboro for the murder of his cousin's wife says God told him to kill her, he told police.

30-year-old Joel Brian Holloway told police he fired eight shots into Tracy Holloway's body because he believed she was listening to religious music that was blasphemous. One of the bullets lodged in a Bible that Tracy Holloway was clutching when she died.

Alleged sect killer fit to stand trial
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,7368491%255E401,00.html
A MOTHER accused of letting her infant son to starve to death because her husband believed it was God's prophecy has been found competent to stand trial.

Karen Robidoux is charged with second-degree murder in the 1999 death of her 11-month-old son, Samuel, and faces life in prison if convicted.

Superior Court Judge Elizabeth Donovan's ruling came after psychiatrists determined Mrs Robidoux was now competent to stand trial, according to prosecutors. No trial date was set.

evildave

25th September 2003, 10:46 PM

Judge rules accused killer is insane
http://www.pottstownmercury.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=10212216&BRD=1674&PAG=461&dept_id=18041&rfi=6
"The Lord told me to do his work. I was delivering my creator to the ultimate creator and this was fulfilling the prophesy. I don’t really remember putting the cord around his neck but I know I was fulfilling the message," Snook allegedly told several psychiatrists, according to testimony.

Murder accused 'heard voice of God telling him to kill
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/latestnewsstory.cfm?storyID=3525196&thesection=news&thesubsection=general
"He walked up behind him and pretended to befriend him. He believed he heard the voice of God in his head telling him to kill the victim," Prof Brinded said.

Later that day the accused returned to the scene of the stabbing and noticed that police had taped off the area.

He said he heard voices in his head saying: "We know you did it and we will find you."

KNOX FAMILY FEARS SON IS PART OF A CULT
http://www.wbir.com/News/news.asp?ID=14692
The Hupps say Harmony Church, which meets in a Tulsa, Oklahoma home forever changed their son. The church recruited members from Oral Roberts University, without the school's approval, and once the university found out, administrators kicked them off campus.

This summer, police in Tulsa arrested the church's pastors, Janice and Robert Turner, a married couple. Investigators say a church member confessed to them they had sexually abused a child. But instead of reporting that abuse to police, like the law requires, detectives say the Turners severely beat that member, and others who disobeyed them, in religious ceremonies they call "disciplining the flesh."

Recruited into a cult from Oral Roberts University? Oh well, begin installing Windows, end up with viruses.

http://www.boners.com/content/790383.1.jpg
http://www.boners.com/grub/790383.html

arcticpenguin

26th September 2003, 11:26 AM

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=573&ncid=757&e=7&u=/nm/20030926/od_nm/crime_minister_dc

Bank-Robbing Church Minister Pleads Guilty
Fri Sep 26, 8:19 AM ET

BOSTON (Reuters) - A pentecostal minister pleaded guilty on Thursday in federal court to robbing banks from Maine to Massachusetts of more than $10,000, law enforcement officials said.
...
A subsequent investigation showed he had robbed four other banks in Maine, Massachusetts and New Hampshire, and that he was laundering the proceeds through an account in the name of the church where he was pastor, the Shema First Apostolic Assembly in Canton, Maine, federal prosecutors said.

evildave

26th September 2003, 10:32 PM

KKK splinter group rallies for Ten Commandments display
http://www.accessnorthga.com/news/hall/newfullstory.asp?ID=74864
WINDER - A crowd of 200 rallied Friday in support of a Ten Commandments display at the Barrow County courthouse, with ralliers ranging from a Ku Klux Klan leader to members of a fundamentalist black church.

The rally was organized by Joseph J. Harper of Cordele, the self-described imperial wizard of the American White Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. Harper lashed out at the American Civil Liberties Union for asking for the framed poster to come down, saying the First Amendment does not bar religious displays from courthouses.

LRA, and the KKK are all for the 10 Commandments! Why not you?

France withdraws textbook over content offensive to Jews
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/344784.html
According to the daily

Liberation, one passage compared the fate of
the Jewish people to the death of Jesus Christ.
Another section said some Jews had paranoid
reactions to theHolocaust while non-Jews felt
overly guilty.

"The part about Judaism could cause
controversy," said one official, without giving
details. "There were some critical remarks
made, but not by the Jewish community."

Rampant extortion in God's name
http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Rampant+extortion+in+God's+ name&id=43034
"Incidents of forced donations are quite common here. Yesterday, 15-20 men came to my shop carrying guns and revolvers. They just presented me with a Rs 2,500 receipt and forced me to pay the money," says Munna Kumar Gupta, shop owner, Patna

Cult Babies Remain Unclaimed By Kin
http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/2513600/detail.html
BOSTON -- The bodies of two infants who died while in the care of an Attleboro sect remain unclaimed in a Boston morgue more than three years after they were exhumed from a makeshift grave in a Maine park.

...

David Corneau and his wife, Rebecca, were not prosecuted in the case because Jeremiah died during a home birth. Samuel Robidoux's father, Jacques Robidoux, was sentenced to life after being convicted of starving the boy. His wife, Karen Robidoux, faces a January trial on second degree murder charges.

Jacques Robidoux was a leader of the sect called the Body, which rejects modern medicine and government. He testified at his trial that he watched Samuel starve over 51 days in 1999 after his sister, Michelle Mingo, said she had a prophecy from God that Karen Robidoux should withhold solid food from the boy and only give him breast milk.

Father, nanny guilty of duct tape murder
http://www.dailynews.co.za/index.php?fSectionId=501&fArticleId=244806
All three face mandatory sentences of life in prison without the possibility of parole for 20 years, and could face additional time on the child abuse charges. Attorneys for Edgar Snr and Boyd said they would appeal.

The defence had argued that Christy manipulated her husband and other members of God's Creation Outreach Ministry, a church in Kansas City, Kansas, operated by the Edgars. Witnesses said Christy was considered a prophet and told church members that God told her to discipline children by tying them up. - Sapa-AP

Child abuse priest gets extra 10yrs
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7389339%255E1702,00.html
A ROMAN Catholic priest imprisoned for abusing children was sentenced today to serve 10 more years for a second set of counts.

The sentence will start after the Reverend Louis Miller, 72, completes the 20-year prison term he is already serving. The judge denied his lawyer's request that the sentences run together.

Supreme Court Decisions to Be Burned in Cities Across America
http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=103-09252003
In 30 cities across this nation, Christians will burn 6 intolerable Supreme Court Decisions at federal court buildings. "The judicial tyranny of the Supreme Court and her sister federal courts must come to an end." said Reverend Flip Benham, Director of Operation Save America. "The Second American Revolution has begun! Like the first, the Church of Jesus Christ must lead."

Operation Save America says the Supreme Court has spurned its biblical mandate to judge justly. It has surrendered its constitutional responsibility. It has forfeited all moral authority. Therefore, they hold these decisions no longer relevant or binding upon us, our children, or our nation.

Aww, poor babies!

1. Engel v Vitale (1962). Silencing the prayers of our children in public schools.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/search.html

Any child can pray in school. The school can not FORCE a child to pray.

2. Abington v Schempp (1963). Removal of the Bible from the education of our children.
http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=%5BGroup%20374%20U.S.%20203:%5D(%5BLevel%20C ase%20Citation:%5D|%5BGroup%20citemenu:%5D)/doc/%7B@1%7D/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?

Any child may bring a bible to a public school and read it on their own. The school can not FORCE a child to study using it.

3. Roe v Wade (1973). Over 45 million children killed in its horrible wake.
http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=%5BGroup+410+U.S.+113:%5D(%5BLevel+Case+Cita tion:%5D|%5BGroup+citemenu:%5D)/doc/%7B@1%7D/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?][/url]

Every sperm is sacred.

4. Stone v Graham (1980). Stripped the Ten Commandments from the walls of our schools.
http://www2.law.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/foliocgi.exe/historic/query=%5BGroup%20449%20U.S.%2039:%5D(%5BLevel%20Ca se%20Citation:%5D|%5BGroup%20citemenu:%5D)/doc/%7B@1%7D/hit_headings/words=4/hits_only?[/url]

Actually, they were going to ADD it. These people think we should have their ideology in people's faces at all times.

5. Planned Parenthood v Casey (1992). Declared that man can be a god unto himself.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/91-744.ZS.html

Gibberish.

6. Lawrence v Texas (2003). Declared homosexual sodomy to be a constitutional right.
http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/display.html?terms=Lawrence%20v%20Texas&url=/supct/html/02-102.ZO.html

Only struck down various sodomy laws that made "deviant acts" between consenting adults in their OWN HOMES an offense punishable by law.

The law in question also made getting a heterosexual "Blow Job" in your own home illegal.

I can see how these rulings striking down laws and decisions would be absolutely "intolerable" for some busybodies who want to control every aspect of other people's lives AND force their personal religious affliction on every child.

Oh well, what more can we expect from people whose faith is so weak that they feel openly and blatantly LYING is what is needed to spread it?

evildave

27th September 2003, 03:37 PM

Father, baby sitter convicted in death of 9-year-old
http://www.msnbc.com/local/ksnw/m327869.asp?0ct=-302&cp1=1

More lovely details.

"God" Not Allowed on Playground Bricks, Couple Sues
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/news/092603_nw_jesusbrick.html
September 26, 2003 — A couple in Lynnwood, Washington, is suing state park authorities over the right to thank Jesus on a fund-raising brick.

evildave

28th September 2003, 06:16 PM

I Need a Husband, Says Amina Lawal
http://allafrica.com/stories/200309280072.html
How sweet victory could taste. Amina Lawal, the single mother whose death sentence for adultery was quashed on Thursday by the Katsina State Sharia Court of Appeal, now has a new desire: to get a husband and start a new life.
...
Meanwhile, the governor of Lagos State, Asiwaju Bola Tinubu, has described the verdict as a "victory for justice in Nigeria." In a statement yesterday, Tinubu said, "the true test of the relationship between man and Allah as conceived by the Sharia was demonstrated on Thursday with the decision of the Sharia Court of Appeal to set free Amina Lawal, who would have died by stoning.

A few years ago, a brief nude scene in "American Beauty"...
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/entertainment/6883744.htm
A nice article about some of what happens when the fundies get their way.

Low-level Ba'ath members targeted in reprisal killings
http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2003/09/28/low_level_baath_members_targeted_in_reprisal_killi ngs/
Earlier this month, Abdul Aziz al Hakim, a member of Iraq's US-appointed Governing Council and the leader of the Badr Brigade, a paramilitary militia that continues to bear weapons despite a US order to disarm, called on Iraqis to "root out all Ba'ath Party gangsters and Saddam followers by force." Hakim stopped far short of calling for reprisals, and his aides have denied involvement in any killings.

But graffiti seen recently on the walls of Najaf reads, "It is your duty as Muslims to kill all Ba'ath Party members" and "It is your duty as humans to kill all Ba'ath Party members." The slogans are signed "Badr Brigade."

Faiths collide at holy site
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0928mideast28.html
The site is revered by Jews as the spot where their first and second temples stood, but the 36-acre plaza is also sacred to Muslims, who are the custodians of the site and call it the Noble Sanctuary, the place where Muhammad ascended into heaven for a glimpse of the divine.

Their competing claims have turned the plateau into one of the most contentious patches of real estate, a symbol not only of two age-old faiths but also, to many, of Israeli and Palestinian national aspirations.

Three years ago today, then-opposition leader Ariel Sharon paid a visit to the mount to assert Israeli claims to all of Jerusalem. The visit sparked riots that eventually coalesced into the ongoing Palestinian uprising, which is known as the Al Aqsa intifada after one of the sanctuaries on the site. For most of the past three years, the compound was closed to non-Muslims by the Islamic trust that maintains it.

arcticpenguin

29th September 2003, 01:01 PM

Father jailed for 'honour killing' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm)

A Kurdish Muslim who cut his daughter's throat after learning she was having a relationship with a Christian has been jailed for life.

This was in London, not the Middle East. That's why he was jailed instead of given a reward.

evildave

29th September 2003, 09:16 PM

They don't reward it: they just ignore it.

Indonesian ministry seeks to criminalize cohabitation, oral sex
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detaillatestnews.asp?fileid=20030929151803&irec=9
The draft, which is still being debated, proposes that a couple found guilty of cohabitation be punished to up to two years in jail. A man who impregnates a woman but refuses to marry her could spend a maximum five years in prison.

Sodomy and oral sex would be punishable by between three to 12 years in jail and homosexual sex would be liable to punishment of between one and seven years.

A "witch doctor" or his client found guilty of using black magic to hurt other people could spend up to five years in jail.

Insanity defense hard for jury
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0929insane29.html
Prosecutors argue Roque was consumed with hate for Arabs, or anyone appearing Arab, when he gunned down Sikh gasoline station owner Balbir Singh Sodhi, 49, in Mesa four days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Defense attorneys argue that Roque, 44, is mentally ill and heard voices from God commanding him to "kill the devils" moments before he murdered Sodhi, an immigrant from India who wore a turban in deference to his faith.

Singh Sodhi became the first victim nationwide of a backlash murder stemming from the Sept. 11 tragedies. Six hours later on Sept. 15, 2001, a Pakistani convenience store clerk in Dallas was gunned down by a White supremacist now awaiting execution in Texas.

Yahzi

30th September 2003, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
Father jailed for 'honour killing' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3149030.stm)

This was in London, not the Middle East. That's why he was jailed instead of given a reward.
That's totally unfair, AP. Why, in Jordan, the man would have gotten six months in jail!

:rolleyes:

Yahzi

1st October 2003, 01:26 PM

Chile doesn't allow divorce (the only country in the Western Hemisphere). So how do they manage to terminate marriages?

In the absence of divorce, Chileans have traditionally resorted to subterfuge to get out of unhappy marriages, including women who seek to be declared widows after their husbands leave them. The most popular tool, though, is civil annulment, which requires a couple to go to a court and say their marriage violated the law — for instance, that neither of them lived in the jurisdiction where they wed.

Witnesses to a wedding have also been known to misspell their names or give an incorrect address so that the couple will have grounds for an annulment. While some judges refuse to hear such cases out of religious convictions, most rule that the marriage never formally existed. More than 5,000 annulments are granted annually. Beneficiaries include President Ricardo Lagos and even some legislators who have expressed doubts about the divorce bill.

Some supporters of divorce contend that annulment discriminates against poor or uneducated couples who cannot afford lawyers, and, indeed, the beneficiaries are overwhelmingly from the middle and upper classes.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/29/international/americas/29CHIL.html

Of course the Church wants to prevent legalized divorce. God forbid poor people should be able to terminate their marriages like rich people! Literally. God forbid.

But proponents of the law say the absence of divorce has also produced severe social distortions. The number of marriages recorded has sharply dropped since the return of democracy in 1990, to just over 60,000 annually from more than 100,000, and nearly half of all children here are now born to unmarried couples.
Apparently that's ok with the Church. They don't care if you live in sin; in fact, they prefer it, because it raises the value of the salvation they sell.

I honestly don't understand how a civilized person can read this article and still desire to be labeled Catholic.

evildave

1st October 2003, 10:46 PM

Well, that's Chilean Catholic, and not the same as you.

No true Scottsman.

evildave

1st October 2003, 10:59 PM

Roque guilty
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0930SikhShooting30-ON.html
A jury today rejected Frank Roque's plea of insanity, finding him guilty of first-degree murder in the death of a Sikh gasoline station owner four days after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Who'd have guessed the jurors would see through the "god made me do it" defense?

(See Insanity defense hard for jury, above)

Tax Dodging In The Name Of God
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/02/business/02SCHE.html?ex=1065758400&en=8c38fe60a2de06c1&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE
At one of Mr. Simkanin's Web sites, www.arrowplastics.net, he had posted a warning that "public officials can and often do make the fatal mistake of attempting to harm the servants of God (Exodus 14:9) and inasmuch as the servants of God are required by Ezekiel 3:18-19 to warn the wicked, I, a Christian, do hereby issue this proclamation." He warned that any government officials who moved against him would be consumed by fire.

arcticpenguin

9th October 2003, 02:01 PM

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,7516480%255E1702,00.html

A PRIEST arrested for allegedly making threatening telephone calls had in his home Nazi paraphernalia, pistols and $US80,000 supposedly taken from a church poor box, The New York Times reported overnight.
...
Johnson himself led police to the $US80,000 in cash hidden in the bathroom of his home. Police told the Times that the money had been taken from the poor box at Saint Martin church on Long Island over a period of years when Johnson said mass there on weekends.
...
ohnson also had Nazi memorabilia and pornography, according to the same sources.

Barkhorn1x

9th October 2003, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by arcticpenguin
A PRIEST arrested for allegedly making threatening telephone calls had in his home Nazi paraphernalia, pistols and $US80,000 supposedly taken from a church poor box, The New York Times reported overnight.

Yep - here is the Times link;
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/09/nyregion/09PRIE.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1065736764-+vVAuVCrfHlPp23XaSRwZw

You do need to register tho'

This would be quite funny if it weren't so f******d up.

Barkhorn.

Flaherty

23rd October 2003, 06:04 AM

What, no more ugly religion making news?

Brown

27th October 2003, 06:54 AM

From the Des Moines Register (http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/22600394.html):The parents of a boy whose buttocks, legs and back were spanked purple at a church-run preschool in Runnells two years ago have sued the church [Adelphi Baptist], its pastor and two of his relatives, alleging that church members tacitly approved beating willful children to break their spirits.
...
Authorities say Shawn Vanderhart [son of the pastor accused of spanking the child] took the child to his father for punishment because the boy ... refused to say "please" when he asked to have his shoe tied.

Police reports at the time described purple bruises on the 2-year-old's lower back, buttocks and upper legs.
...
By court order, Shawn Vanderhart's criminal record will be sealed next year if he successfully completes his probation.

Judge Michael Huppert last year declined to offer that option to Vanderhart's father. Huppert said he was not convinced the pastor was "fully remorseful for what had occurred."According to the parents' lawyer, the pastor told the parents that the spanking had been necessary "to break the spirit of the child, that it was a willful spirit and needed to be broke."

It is a fair bet that the judge found the pastor not to be "fully remorseful" because the pastor relied upon Biblical passages that encourage beating children.

I have seen two-year-olds refuse to say "please" or "thank you" when prompted by adults. I have never seen an adult beat the child black and blue because of the child's failure to comply.

Marc

27th October 2003, 07:28 AM

Huppert said he was not convinced the pastor was "fully remorseful for what had occurred."
Sounds to me the pastor has a willfull spirit, the judge should have taken care of that. :mad:

Roadtoad

27th October 2003, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Brown
From the Des Moines Register (http://www.dmregister.com/news/stories/c4788993/22600394.html):According to the parents' lawyer, the pastor told the parents that the spanking had been necessary "to break the spirit of the child, that it was a willful spirit and needed to be broke."

It is a fair bet that the judge found the pastor not to be "fully remorseful" because the pastor relied upon Biblical passages that encourage beating children.

I have seen two-year-olds refuse to say "please" or "thank you" when prompted by adults. I have never seen an adult beat the child black and blue because of the child's failure to comply.

My first response was "WHAT THE F***!?!"

I have known too many pastors, Brown, who would actually have sanctioned this behavior, and would decry from the pulpit this sort of "interference" on the part of the courts. This is right up there with shipping kids off to these "camps" which are supposed to help provide "discipline" for "wayward" kids.

Tell you what: Maybe we ought to pay this Pastor a visit ourselves, and see about fixing his problem with his own "willful spirit." Bet I can fix his little problem in a big f***ing hurry.

Two bit sonofabitch....

Brown

27th October 2003, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Roadtoad
I have known too many pastors, Brown, who would actually have sanctioned this behavior, and would decry from the pulpit this sort of "interference" on the part of the courts. This is right up there with shipping kids off to these "camps" which are supposed to help provide "discipline" for "wayward" kids.I am very tired of people hurting other people, and sometimes killing other people, and then trying to hide from responsibility behind religion.

When I read this story, I immediately thought of something I saw about a week ago. A little boy (about two years old, I'd guess) and his mother were visiting Wal-Mart. The Wal-Mart greeter had given the boy a piece of candy, and the mother was encouraging the boy to say "Thank you." The little boy was very shy, and he didn't want to say anything. The mother kept prodding, and the greeter waited patiently and politely with a kind smile on his face. The little boy looked like he wanted to do anything else but say "Thank you" for the candy.

The little boy should have said "Thank you" without so much prompting, but he was a little boy and he was still learning the basics of good manners. And perhaps he was shy around strangers, as many kids are, or he wasn't used to seeing someone who was that old (the greeter looked like he was in his 70s). The thought of someone taking this little boy aside and whipping him black and blue for this infraction would shock my conscience.

Ossai

27th October 2003, 08:01 PM

Religious school
High school senior came 'out' - and was expelled (http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/auto/epaper/editions/saturday/local_news_f3998ffd234c502f00b5.html)
But on the third day of school, his Bible teacher -- who is also the school chaplain -- pulled him out of class with a personal question. Jeffrey said the teacher assured him they were having a confidential conversation, and then asked whether it was true that Jeffrey was a homosexual.

"I told him, 'Yes, I am gay,' " Jeffrey says. "I was just being totally honest with him because I don't lie."

Two days later, he was expelled.

Three wives will guarantee you a place in paradise. The Taliban? No: welcome to the rebel Mormons (http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/19/wmorm19.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/19/ixworld.html[/url)
As a polygamous husband is jailed and traumatised women start to speak out, a siege mentality grips a fundamentalist Mormon sect, reports Julian Coman from Hildale, Utah

High in the mountains above the most notorious polygamous community in America, two grim-faced men on horseback have come to meet - but not welcome - me. "This is private property," said one. "No pictures. You have got to leave right now."

Warren Jeffs: the Mormon 'Prophet' under investigation
The men are blocking the way to a deep man-made cave. Here, according to the few locals prepared to talk, the elders of an eccentric breakaway Mormon sect have prepared a last stand against further interference by Utah state authorities - stockpiling food and, some say, weapons, as if in readiness for a siege.

This one’s mainly stupid.
Evangelists pray for ‘evil’ Manson (http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_19-10-2003_pg9_6)
Dozens of Bible-wielding Mexican evangelical Christians prayed for the soul of Marilyn Manson in a protest against a planned concert by the shock rocker.

About 100 people sang hymns and prayed outside local government buildings in the center of the northern city of Monterrey, where Manson, infamous for ripping up Bibles and invoking Satan on stage, is to play.

The group presented 3,000 signatures to the City Council this week asking it to halt the gig but Monterrey Mayor Felipe de Jesus Cantu said the Manson show would go ahead. —Reuters

Ugly religion is still out there, apparently evildave just got tired of posting.

Ossai