I'm frightened. Talk me out of formatting my HD.

[Garrette]

I'm calling it quits on my laptop but not ready to spring for a new one (I really only need it for word-processing, storing/printing pictures, a little spreadsheeting, a little powerpointing, some mild 'net surfing, and playing the occasional game.

For a long while now I've had virus and worm trouble. Had it cleaned by a pro once and looked at by techie friends once. It drags now and won't reliably start.

I no longer have the original system or restore disks, but that's okay.

I've got all my data and pictures backed up to thumb drives (and I scanned those for viruses on a separate, up-to-date, computer).

I got a discounted version of the latest MS Office Home Edition and will soon be purchasing a new Windows XP package.

What else do I need?

How do I go about it?

Should I stop?

Would it be more efficient to commit suicide now or halfway through the failed process?

[IllegalArgument]

Have you run defrag on it recently?

A badly fragmented drive can really hurt performance.

[Garrette]

Have you run defrag on it recently?

A badly fragmented drive can really hurt performance.Often.

I've also done the recommended online stuff like PCClean (I might be remembering the name wrong).

I don't really want to be talked out of it; that part of the title was just funning. It needs to be done.

What I really want is to know how to do it. If I get the new XP software and install it, that won't really be formatting the HD, will it? It will just be installing over the old XP?

[MortFurd]

Often.

I've also done the recommended online stuff like PCClean (I might be remembering the name wrong).

I don't really want to be talked out of it; that part of the title was just funning. It needs to be done.

What I really want is to know how to do it. If I get the new XP software and install it, that won't really be formatting the HD, will it? It will just be installing over the old XP?

You'll have a choice at some point as to whether to reinstall or install a new setup. I've not done this in a while, so I don't remember the terms.

If your problems are software related, reinstalling might not be enough. You might have to blow it all away and start from scratch - reformat, in other words.

You might want to be sure that your problems aren't hardware related before you go to all that trouble.

Check the eventviewer (Start/run/ eventvwr) for errors related to your harddrive, or any other hardware problems.

If you are up to it, locate a SMART monitoring tool and see if your hardddrive is OK. I use Smartmon, but it is a commandline tool that not veryone likes to deal with.

Try the Windows defrag function. You have it analyse your drive without actually defragmenting - do an analysis and then check the report to see the "Percent MFT in use" number. If it is up at 99%, then you may need to clean out your temporary files. The drive won't be full, Windows may not be able to add new entries to the Master File Table (MFT.)

There's probably a bazillion other things you could try. The thing I'm trying to say is to make sure you have a software problem. If you have a hardware problem, reinstalling Windows won't help much (in the long run.)

[Vitnir]

If you have a legit copy of XP why not lend a copy of someones CD's?
During the installations of windows 2000 I have had the option to reformat the HD during the installation process so I would look for that.

[Garrette]

You'll have a choice at some point as to whether to reinstall or install a new setup. I've not done this in a while, so I don't remember the terms.

If your problems are software related, reinstalling might not be enough. You might have to blow it all away and start from scratch - reformat, in other words.That's my plan.

You might want to be sure that your problems aren't hardware related before you go to all that trouble.

Check the eventviewer (Start/run/ eventvwr) for errors related to your harddrive, or any other hardware problems.

If you are up to it, locate a SMART monitoring tool and see if your hardddrive is OK. I use Smartmon, but it is a commandline tool that not veryone likes to deal with.

Try the Windows defrag function. You have it analyse your drive without actually defragmenting - do an analysis and then check the report to see the "Percent MFT in use" number. If it is up at 99%, then you may need to clean out your temporary files. The drive won't be full, Windows may not be able to add new entries to the Master File Table (MFT.)I hadn't really considered the possibility of it being hardware related. I'll check the eventviewer (haven't done that before).

The SMART monitoring tool sounds intriguing, but I've no idea how to go about it other than to start googling.

I've done the temp files clean out quite frequently, including since the serious trouble started, but it's been a while so I'll do it again and check the Percent MFT like you suggest.


There's probably a bazillion other things you could try. The thing I'm trying to say is to make sure you have a software problem. If you have a hardware problem, reinstalling Windows won't help much (in the long run.)If necessary, I'll go with a new, low end laptop. I've seen adds lately for several that are within reach. I'm resisting anyway because "within reach" does not equal "pleasurable."

[Garrette]

If you have a legit copy of XP why not lend a copy of someones CD's?My copy of XP is legit, but I no longer have the disks. (No idea where they are because I know enough to keep them; the "Let's-Screw-With-Garrette Fairies" undoubtedly absconded with them.

Beyond that, I'm not sure which CDs you mean for me to lend (borrow?).


During the installations of windows 2000 I have had the option to reformat the HD during the installation process so I would look for that.Okay. Thanks.

[MortFurd]

Snip...
The SMART monitoring tool sounds intriguing, but I've no idea how to go about it other than to start googling.
Snip...

Smartmon Tools. (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=64297) It comes with documentation.
This is pretty much the basic sequence:

Run the Installer.
Open a command line and change directory to c:\program files\smartmontools\bin
enter the following commands:
smartctl --smart=on /dev/hda
smartctl --test=short /dev/hda
Wait for whatever time period smartctl says it will take for the test to complete. Usually 1 or 2 minutes.
smartctl --all /dev/hda

The last command will cause screens full of text to shoot by. The things you are interested in are 1) anything that says failed and 2) the value for Reallocated_Sector_Ct.

I think c:\program files\smartmontools\bin is correct. I'm at home using Linux now, so I can't verify for sure. Reading through the installer configuration, it looks like that would be correct.

If smartctl say your drive failed the test, then that's the end. Bad drive, back up your data and replace before doing anything else.

If Reallocated_Sector_Ct shows any value above 0, but smartctl doesn't otherwise say "failed," then you should do a repair reinstallation of Windows at the least. You may also want to reformat and start from scratch. Reallocated_Sector_Ct higher than zero says that the drive has had to remap bad sectors to spares. There is no guarantee that the remapping will have happened before data was lost or the file system was corrupted, therefore any file on your drive may be corrupted. If that happens to be part of Windows or part of a program, then you can expect problems - like odd crashes or low performance. Corruption in the file system can also result in crashes and poor performance. Reformating and reinstalling will get around all of that.

If Reallocated_Sector_Ct goes above some limit (varies by drive model,) the drive will run out of spares and you will lose data. Best case, Windows doesn't boot anymore but your important stuff is still on the drive and you can recover it using a second PC. Worst case, Windows boots but all the important stuff you've been storing is gone or corrupted - and you don't notice until much later when it is too late to recover.

[Garrette]

Smartmon Tools. (http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=64297) It comes with documentation.
This is pretty much the basic sequence:

Run the Installer.
Open a command line and change directory to c:\program files\smartmontools\bin
enter the following commands:
smartctl --smart=on /dev/hda
smartctl --test=short /dev/hda
Wait for whatever time period smartctl says it will take for the test to complete. Usually 1 or 2 minutes.
smartctl --all /dev/hdaThe last command will cause screens full of text to shoot by. The things you are interested in are 1) anything that says failed and 2) the value for Reallocated_Sector_Ct.

I think c:\program files\smartmontools\bin is correct. I'm at home using Linux now, so I can't verify for sure. Reading through the installer configuration, it looks like that would be correct.

If smartctl say your drive failed the test, then that's the end. Bad drive, back up your data and replace before doing anything else.

If Reallocated_Sector_Ct shows any value above 0, but smartctl doesn't otherwise say "failed," then you should do a repair reinstallation of Windows at the least. You may also want to reformat and start from scratch. Reallocated_Sector_Ct higher than zero says that the drive has had to remap bad sectors to spares. There is no guarantee that the remapping will have happened before data was lost or the file system was corrupted, therefore any file on your drive may be corrupted. If that happens to be part of Windows or part of a program, then you can expect problems - like odd crashes or low performance. Corruption in the file system can also result in crashes and poor performance. Reformating and reinstalling will get around all of that.

If Reallocated_Sector_Ct goes above some limit (varies by drive model,) the drive will run out of spares and you will lose data. Best case, Windows doesn't boot anymore but your important stuff is still on the drive and you can recover it using a second PC. Worst case, Windows boots but all the important stuff you've been storing is gone or corrupted - and you don't notice until much later when it is too late to recover.Thanks. I'll give it a shot.

[bruto]

My copy of XP is legit, but I no longer have the disks. (No idea where they are because I know enough to keep them; the "Let's-Screw-With-Garrette Fairies" undoubtedly absconded with them.

Beyond that, I'm not sure which CDs you mean for me to lend (borrow?).


Okay. Thanks.

The CD's might depend on what machine you have and what CD's a friend has. I think the idea is that if you have a legit copy, and a legit key, then there is no copyright infringement if you use someone else's copy of the installation CD in the place of your lost one. Unfortunately, though, unless you can find someone with the same brand, you will need someone with a proper retail copy, rather than an OEM copy, because since sometime near the end of the Win 98 era, Microsoft has not permitted the OEM computer companies to provide a fully transferable OS CD. I ran into this with Dell. In early 2000, I got a Dell with their traditional Win 98 CD, Dell branded, but installable on any machine. In Mid 2000, I got a Dell for my stepson, and his came with a "restore disk." It is still a complete copy, but it will install only if it finds a Dell bios. The same is true of XP. At a later date my stepson found a nearly-new Dell on the street, with its OS totally clobbered by spyware, viruses and who knows what. Unable to fix it, we reformatted and reinstalled XP, using the CD that came with my laptop. It worked and was legal because they were both Dells, and both licensed to run XP.

[Hokulele]

Depending on how nasty the worms/viruses were, you may need to reformat the boot sector as well. I had an HP laptop that got nailed by something, and had to take it all the way down, then rebuild it.

Reformatting the hard drive and reinstalling the OS is not as much of a pain as reinstalling all of your drivers. Make sure you have the CD's for those on hand before you start (video, CD/DVD burner, audio, printers, etc.). If you do not have these drivers, you can get most of them online (before you reformat!). Check and make sure the version number of any downloaded driver is compatible with your hardware.

[Garrette]

Depending on how nasty the worms/viruses were, you may need to reformat the boot sector as well. I had an HP laptop that got nailed by something, and had to take it all the way down, then rebuild it.

Reformatting the hard drive and reinstalling the OS is not as much of a pain as reinstalling all of your drivers. Make sure you have the CD's for those on hand before you start (video, CD/DVD burner, audio, printers, etc.). If you do not have these drivers, you can get most of them online (before you reformat!). Check and make sure the version number of any downloaded driver is compatible with your hardware.I had already thought of my printer driver, but how do I know what else I need?

[Garrette]

Here are the sort of results for Smartmontool.

I downloaded it fine and doublechecked the file path for where it is, but when I went into the command line and tried to change the directory to c:\programfiles\smartmontools\bin I kept getting the message that the specified path can not be found.

This happened regardless how I typed it in. With and without spaces. With and without capitalizations. I even went to the directory itself, right-clicked to go into properties, and copies the file path so I could paste it into the command line. Still the same message.

So I did the rest of the commands anyway (I failed to write down which directory it was in, but it was in Programs and Documents & Settings, I think.

The result was that the Reallocated Sector Ct was 99 (which was the limit it can show, I think), and I pre-failed 7 areas, including the Reallocated Sector Ct. The other six were:

Raw_Read_Error-Rate
Throughput_Performance
Spin_Up-Time
Seek_Error_Rate
Seek_Time_Performance
Spin_Retry_Count

Is "Pre-fail" as bad as "fail?"

Do I need a new laptop?

Does the fact I couldn't change to the correct directory mean the results are meaningless?

Will our hero ever see Earth again?

[Hokulele]

I had already thought of my printer driver, but how do I know what else I need?

Go to Start -> Control Panel. From there, open up the System tool. Go to the Hardware tab, then click Device Manager.

This shows you a complete list of everything that is part of your computer. You can print this list. This does not show things that you "plug in", such as printers, scanners, or external hard drives. The good news is that you will not need every single one of the drivers in this list. The bad news is that I do not know which ones you will need from your list. Typically, when you format the hard drive and reinstall the OS, your computer should work in a sort of minimal mode which will allow you to figure out which drivers need to be installed.

For example, the screen will display stuff, but it may not be able to display the full resolution/color set until the graphics card driver is installed. DVD's, sound cards, and network adapters (wireless included) are several things that typically come with their own drivers.

[MortFurd]

Here are the sort of results for Smartmontool.

I downloaded it fine and doublechecked the file path for where it is, but when I went into the command line and tried to change the directory to c:\programfiles\smartmontools\bin I kept getting the message that the specified path can not be found.

This happened regardless how I typed it in. With and without spaces. With and without capitalizations. I even went to the directory itself, right-clicked to go into properties, and copies the file path so I could paste it into the command line. Still the same message.

So I did the rest of the commands anyway (I failed to write down which directory it was in, but it was in Programs and Documents & Settings, I think.

The result was that the Reallocated Sector Ct was 99 (which was the limit it can show, I think), and I pre-failed 7 areas, including the Reallocated Sector Ct. The other six were:

Raw_Read_Error-Rate
Throughput_Performance
Spin_Up-Time
Seek_Error_Rate
Seek_Time_Performance
Spin_Retry_Count

Is "Pre-fail" as bad as "fail?"

Do I need a new laptop?

Does the fact I couldn't change to the correct directory mean the results are meaningless?

Will our hero ever see Earth again?

Youch!

The change directory thing just means that the program was installed somewhere else. Are you using Windows in a different language, or maybe Windows 98? No problem, at any rate. The program exectuted, so it doesn't matter.

The prefails are not good, and indicate that the drive is wearing out. If the Reallocated sector count has maxed out, then you've got a real problem. Every time another sector fails, you will get corruption and loss of data - be it your files or parts of Windows.

The cheapest way out would be to back up all of your important stuff, download any and all needed drivers, buy a new drive and reinstall everything from scratch.

[Garrette]

Youch!

The change directory thing just means that the program was installed somewhere else. Are you using Windows in a different language, or maybe Windows 98? No problem, at any rate. The program exectuted, so it doesn't matter.

The prefails are not good, and indicate that the drive is wearing out. If the Reallocated sector count has maxed out, then you've got a real problem. Every time another sector fails, you will get corruption and loss of data - be it your files or parts of Windows.

The cheapest way out would be to back up all of your important stuff, download any and all needed drivers, buy a new drive and reinstall everything from scratch.Okay. I've had all my files and data backed up for a long time, so no worries there.

I have XP, btw.

I'm ordering a new copy of XP today, and I will reformat later this week or this weekend. I'm hoping it will hold out for another year at which point I'll spring for a new laptop all together.

Don't ask me why I want to wait another year. It's just my practice when I have to spend big money--Make it one more year, then I'll have gotten my money's worthtype of thing.

[Garrette]

Go to Start -> Control Panel. From there, open up the System tool. Go to the Hardware tab, then click Device Manager.

This shows you a complete list of everything that is part of your computer. You can print this list. This does not show things that you "plug in", such as printers, scanners, or external hard drives. The good news is that you will not need every single one of the drivers in this list. The bad news is that I do not know which ones you will need from your list. Typically, when you format the hard drive and reinstall the OS, your computer should work in a sort of minimal mode which will allow you to figure out which drivers need to be installed.

For example, the screen will display stuff, but it may not be able to display the full resolution/color set until the graphics card driver is installed. DVD's, sound cards, and network adapters (wireless included) are several things that typically come with their own drivers.Thanks. This helps.

[MortFurd]

Okay. I've had all my files and data backed up for a long time, so no worries there.

I have XP, btw.

I'm ordering a new copy of XP today, and I will reformat later this week or this weekend. I'm hoping it will hold out for another year at which point I'll spring for a new laptop all together.

Don't ask me why I want to wait another year. It's just my practice when I have to spend big money--Make it one more year, then I'll have gotten my money's worthtype of thing.

Please, please, tell me you are going to get a new hard drive. The one you have is a time bomb ticking away underneath your data. When it goes, it may take out windows, one of your programs, or any of your files. It may scramble the file system to the extent that your laptop won't boot again.

The drive is toast. Dead. Shot. Worn out. Dead man walking.

If you depend on that laptop you really need to replace the drive.

[Garrette]

Please, please, tell me you are going to get a new hard drive. The one you have is a time bomb ticking away underneath your data. When it goes, it may take out windows, one of your programs, or any of your files. It may scramble the file system to the extent that your laptop won't boot again.

The drive is toast. Dead. Shot. Worn out. Dead man walking.

If you depend on that laptop you really need to replace the drive.Uh... I didn't pick up the severity of the issue from your last post. My bad.

So, yes, I suppose I'll get a new laptop, though I can't say when. As I said, all my stuff is backed up already, and any work I do on the laptop now will be minor and saved to a thumb drive as opposed to the hard drive.

[jeremyp]

I would endorse getting a new HDD. That way, as well as probably being much bigger, shinier, more reliable and faster, you still have the old drive available in case you accidentally toast your back ups.

[Garrette]

I would endorse getting a new HDD. That way, as well as probably being much bigger, shinier, more reliable and faster, you still have the old drive available in case you accidentally toast your back ups.**slaps self on forehead**

Stupid me. I was equating "get a new hard drive" with "get a new laptop."

As a non-techie, how hard is it to replace a hard drive, what do I need to look for in getting a new one, and what questions am I not asking that I should?

And thanks. All of you have been a big help.

[MortFurd]

The easiest way would be to take your laptop to a computer store, plop it down, and tell them you need a new drive. They should have a technician capable of figuring out how to get the old one out and install a replacement. They may have to order one if they don't normally keep them on hand.

If you want to do it yourself, get on line and check for service manuals for your laptop, or other people who have replaced the drive.

You might also check the laptop manufacturer's homepage. Some offer replacement parts.

On many newer laptops, the drive is in an easily removable tray. Remove one screw, slide the tray out, then unscrew the drive from the tray. Once you have it in hand, you can get its model number and go online to find a replacement. Same manufacturer and same model is the safest bet.

If you've got a computer geek acquaintance, see if he can give you a hand.

Once the drive is replaced, reinstall windows and your software and restore your data files.

[Hokulele]

**slaps self on forehead**

Stupid me. I was equating "get a new hard drive" with "get a new laptop."

As a non-techie, how hard is it to replace a hard drive, what do I need to look for in getting a new one, and what questions am I not asking that I should?

And thanks. All of you have been a big help.

If it's a brand such as HP or Dell, you can call them directly, they will ship you a new hard drive, and often take the old one back (environmentally friendly!). If you purchase one of their drives, it will come with very easy-to-follow instructions with lots of pictures. The process is usually very easy, and only requires a screwdriver.

Otherwise, follow MortFurd's advice and take it to your local computer store. They should be able to swap out the drive and install the OS and drivers for you.